Hit Like a Ton of Bricks -Wife Doesn't love me

[Owl]

LOL...oh no, she won't be comfortable about coming to you to help deal with the loss of him. Because right now she knows she's betrayed you...and if she turns to you for comfort, she'll feel like she's betraying him too. Makes no sense, I know, but I went through that too. I can remember sleeping (sort of) on the couch in the living room...for about a week after her affair came out but he had told her not to come, we both moved into the living room...neither of us could sleep in the bedroom. And I can remember laying there for several nites listening while she cried herself to sleep, and cried in her sleep...and taking a knife in the guts the whole time because I KNEW she wasn't crying about what she'd done to us. It was the withdrawl that was talking...and there was nothing I could do to comfort her during that time. Just be there as best you can, and try to ride the storm out.

 

Realize something too...I don't see your wife wearing a black hat...no more than I do mine. She made a bad mistake. Mine did too. But I don't see her as a bad person.

 

I think that you should consider what Jmargel said about distancing yourself some...but you'll need to find a balance. He's right about her considering you her "safety net". BUT....at the moment, she'll NEED that net to deal with the loss of the OM. If she feels like she's lost you, she may turn back to him. You need to find the balance of being there for her, without being a doormat. It's not easy...I pulled it off by concentrating on helping her get ready to move out...she planned on doing so pretty hard until we began to reconcile. By doing that, it showed her that I did love her, and that I wanted to do what was right for her. BUT...I was adamant about the no contact with the OM during that time too.

 

On the NC issue...if I were you, I'd honestly EXPECT that she's going to mistakes on this in the beginning. With my wife and I, she had said that the contact was over...but then they started IMing again. It happened 3-4 times during the time that we were trying to recover...and each time she made this huge production of keeping the IM's open until I got home so that I could see them...she went on about being "totally open". BUT, I found out just a few months ago that she actually called him twice during that time too...both for only a minute or two. She never did tell me what they discussed, but I personally think that the OM was already to the point of letting her go, and she wasn't. This pattern started of her telling me every time that they IM'ed that it was the last...but it would happen again about a week later. Finally, I got them to agree to stop...and it lasted for about three weeks, when she "accidentally" copied him on an ecard...to which he responded. I had started monitoring her emails by this time, and saw the response. I waited two days, and never heard anything about it from her. Finally, she could tell I was upset about something, and I asked her if they'd had contact...she immediately realized how I knew. We had a major blowup about it, but she ended up sending him a NC email...which I followed up with an email to him of my own, very nicely asking him to walk away. Three days later, SHE violated the NC by sending him a Father's Day card...which he (suprisingly) responded to with a very polite "Thanks, but please stop contacting me". That was the LAST contact that they've had, from everything I can tell. She admitted to me that nite what had happened...and how horrible she felt. She felt all that time that she could still remain friends with him, regardless of everything else. Of course, that wasn't the case, but she was still deluded by the affair. Now, months later, she admits that she couldn't have kept him as a friend, and can see why it had to end like it did.

 

I have a question...how did the two of them meet online in the first place? I'm going to take a shot in the dark...online gaming? It's how we got into our situation. And if so...did YOU know the OM in any way?

[portableversion]

Hey Owl I had a thread about which would people prefer to hear when they came home from work--" Honey I went to the casino and dropped $10,000 at the roulette table with the credit card" or " Honey I've been sleeping with someone else"

 

Pretty interesting to read about people who have experienced huge financial setbacks into the hundreds of thousands of dollars and the affair was a worse experience for them.

 

But you owl mentioned your military experience, said you've seen alot.

Can I infer that you say that combat is less traumatic than infidelity?

If so that is a powerful testimony. Never seen combat myself but did get to see a little of the weapons in action--not cool at all.

[sysyphus]

Hey Owl,

 

Nail right on the head -Everquest -which she started playing at my suggestion (what the heck was I thinking...). Made friends, gained a confidant, you know the rest. This is where some of the trouble comes in. She's head of a guild, feels a lot of responcibility to the members, he's in the guild, she gets a lot of support in this whole deal from their mutual guild-mates, etc.

 

She has more or less stopped playing, but for the time being is marginally active in guild affairs and is in contact with a few of her guildies. In the meantime, I've started playing EQ2 with her (something I had planned on before all of this came out). I hope that besides giving us a common thing to do together, that it will help ease the withdrawl from playing EQ1 that I'm sure she feels as well.

[Owl]

Portableversion-

I remember your thread. In my case, I've lived perpetually broke, and never thought that money would make me happy, so honestly, being broke doesn't bother me anymore. If I came home and my wife said "Honey, I just lost $10k", I'd have to say I would be upset, and angry...for a bit. But, I KNOW that we'd find a way to deal with it and live on...but I wouldn't have that same assurance for us making it through an affair (especially another one).

 

I'm going to dodge your questions concerning combat and trauma. That REALLY depends on the people involved. Some people seem to be totally unaffected by what's going on around them when it gets bad, others are affected but functional, and some just can't deal with it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that for SOME people, the emotional trauma may be greater from one or the other (combat or infidelity). It completely depends on the people involved. In truth, I can tell you that BOTH can cause PSD (Post-traumatic Stress Disorder). And that having dealt with PSD from one event does not prevent you from dealing with it as a result of a new and different event.

 

Sisy-

 

There needs to be a warning label put on the cover of all the MMORPG's out there..."Warning, this game may be hazardous to your relationships!". Everquest has destroyed at LEAST 7 marriages that I personally know of. And it's almost ALWAYS this same exact situation...where the wife who is an at home mom ends up with an online romance with someone she met in game. Everyone complains that guys spend too much time playing these "kid's games"...but the REAL crisis seems to be how easy it is for someone (and it seems to be women most of the time, in all of the situations I've seen so far) that end up beginning an online friendship that ends up ruining (or nearly ruining) their marriage.

 

I think that it's because it's an environment with all the benefits of a chat room, without a lot of the stigmata that goes with being in a chat room. After all, we all "know" why someone goes into chat rooms. But most people don't go into EQ looking for the same thing (well, a lot of the guys seem to, but that's another issue), so it creates a perfect environment for something like this to happen.

 

Well, keep posting, and hang in there friend.

[jmargel]

Originally posted by sysyphus

Hey Owl,

 

Nail right on the head -Everquest -which she started playing at my suggestion (what the heck was I thinking...). Made friends, gained a confidant, you know the rest. This is where some of the trouble comes in. She's head of a guild, feels a lot of responcibility to the members, he's in the guild, she gets a lot of support in this whole deal from their mutual guild-mates, etc.

 

She has more or less stopped playing, but for the time being is marginally active in guild affairs and is in contact with a few of her guildies. In the meantime, I've started playing EQ2 with her (something I had planned on before all of this came out). I hope that besides giving us a common thing to do together, that it will help ease the withdrawl from playing EQ1 that I'm sure she feels as well.

 

I don't understand how some people can form a realationship over that game. I played one similiar to it and I do it because I enjoy it. Not even a couple days into it some chick is trying to flirt with me in it. She knows I am married since I talk about us (in positive terms). Needless to say I don't want no 'online mistress' or offline for that matter. I told my wife even if I did, I couldn't afford another woman.

[sysyphus]

And it's almost ALWAYS this same exact situation...where the wife who is an at home mom ends up with an online romance with someone she met in game.

 

You know, she's been really resistant to being pidgeon-holed as a bored housewife. She is a very strong individual and I don't like to think of her that way either, yet perhaps no matter how "evolved and enlightened" we are ,we are still all essentially human with human frailties and weaknesses. Don't know, just know what happened. It wouldn't likely have happened if our relationship had been OK, I think EQ just provided an easy opportunity to go down this road. She was in pain, found a compassionate shoulder to cry on and then that turned into something else. With the safety of distance and esay secrecy, I can see how easily this osrt of thing could happen. Doesn't make me feel much better, but understanding is half the battle.

[Owl]

Jmargel-

 

It's actually too damn easy for it to happen in game, which is why I joke about a warning label being needed. The problem is that it provides the same benifits of being in a chat room (you can "hide" behind your character, you only show what YOU want to show, you can "pull the plug" on it anytime you want to, etc, etc...) with none of the drawbacks (everyone "knows" what you're doing in a chat room (looking for someone), you're always worried about THIS one being a pervert, you don't trust anyone's motivations, etc...).

 

In an online game, people meet and interact in a completely casual situation...like being at a BBQ for example. BUT...you get the "screen" of hiding behind being online to keep the other person you're talking with from knowing all YOUR own ugly little flaws...so you can present the persona that you want them to see....and they're doing the same thing at the very same time. It's like posting on LS...no one here really knows that I'm actually 2'10" tall, with furry feet!! LOL

 

Now, couple that with the fact that it's 24X7 available, and add in the fact that you (the WS) can normally devote FAR more time to it than the BS. It becomes a great escape...and then when you begin conversing with someone else about things OUTSIDE of the game...it REALLY becomes an escape.

 

And online affairs have some advantages over the "real affairs" too...the fantasy part of an affair is VERY easy to maintain online. You never have to worry about being dressed, if your hair looks right, whatever. It's all done either sitting in front of a keyboard. And then eventually it migrates to the phone...which AGAIN lets you hide appearances, etc... There's no requirements for the intrusion of the real world into the fantasy affair world. That doesn't happen until they start planning on meeting in person...which is the stage my wife had JUST gotten to when I found out about it. So the bottom line is this...these things are VERY common in the online games...I've seen a ton of them happen in the last year since this happened with my wife.

 

Sys-

How did you find out what was going on? How'd you catch her? And what measures were they taking to keep it from you?

[sysyphus]

Actually the discovery of the actual affair was quite accidental. I was logging on to our upstairs computer and her AIM client logged itself in and I started seeing a one-sided transcript of what was going on with her downstairs -totally a freak thing. Don't even know how it worked that way. I had seen a few clues ealrier on that I tried to joke off a bit. I knew she was close to the guy , but thought it only platonic. I had noticed in simple over-the shoulderer observations that they were calling eachother "hunny" and he called her "love " once that I saw -I actually made a snide remark about iit, but toally beleived her when she daid, "oh, he does that with everyone". Not that it matters in the end. I am glad though that I discovered it. I have no idea where it would have gone. i have afeeling I woulldn't have found out about it until she left me -if she was going to do that.

[Owl]

I saw the same types of things friend. Some of the emotes were a little too "lovey" for my comfort...she assured me that there was nothing behind it. You've read my post, so you've seen how I learned about things.

 

You know that there is a way to change your EQClient file to allow it so that it automatically creates log files whenever you log into the game, yes? That's one way you can keep track of what's going on...I not only learned that trick through this, but have used it to keep an eye on my kids to make sure that they're staying out of trouble while in game. If you want details, PM me.

 

I know what you mean about her not wanting to be pegged as a "bored housewife"...and I'm not labeling. But...like I said, I've seen this same pattern over and over and over in game. My wife and I have had two couples that we were friends with in game that suffered from the same exact thing...but both of those had progressed to them meeting physically, and so far it looks like both of those marriages are failing. We've got a lot of "friends of friends" who have all suffered the same thing.

 

I think that you (and I) are lucky that it was caught BEFORE they met in person...after that it becomes VERY hard to deal with. In a way, I was lucky that he played his "trump" card too soon...he bought her plane tickets the morning I found out about it. She was all set to go. But, we finally had a real conversation the day she was supposed to fly where he lives...and she FINALLY started to at least worry that this was all going too fast. After all, she was going to move in with him THAT NITE...and she'd never even met him face to face! Their affair got tied up with her moving there too quickly, and that made cancelling the choice to fly there the same as ending the affair. At least in her eyes at the time...which helped bring us back together eventually.

 

When she finally STARTS to become rational again, you might discuss offhandedly the fact that they CAN'T know if it would have ever worked out, because of the whole never met physically thing. That she's not dealing with the loss of her "soulmate"...she's actually only dealing with the loss of the possibility.

 

My wife too was under the impression that we could all have been together. She had this picture of her just somehow leaving quietly to go live with him, with me being their best friend, with the kids lovingly accepting him as 'another' dad. Let's face it friend...when they're in the 'fog' of the affair like that, they're not the least bit able to think normally.

 

Do your best to stay rational while she's dealing with the withdrawl. It's going to be HARD. But doing that will help her to realize that YOU were with her the whole time she was dealing with it...and that YOU didn't leave, even when things got to the worst. My wife has commented a lot of times that my doing THAT was what helped her realize what she had almost given up. Realize we'd been married for 17 years before this, and we'd had a number of great years together to fall back on.

 

You MIGHT consider talking with her family or RL friends about this whole thing too. NOT in an attempt to make her look bad, but kind of for a two-fold reason. Affairs thrive on secrecy...and the more people who know about it, the harder it is to survive. And ESPECIALLY in this case, where they've never met face to face. Her family, her friends (RL at least), will all tell her the same thing that you have been....that she CAN'T love someone she doesn't know...she's in love with a fantasy. She WON'T accept that right now...but she will hear it later on when the affair starts to cool down. And when she's getting it from people other than yourself (after all, you've got your own agenda...you want to keep her...and she knows that), it will start to slowly sink in.

 

Again, try to keep your own cool. I can't promise you that it will work out, but I promise you that it could. My wife and I are doing better now than we have in a long time now...we ARE recovering, and we WILL stay together. It's not just what I want...it's what she wants too. She just lost sight of that when she was blinded by the affair. She DEEPLY regrets what she's done...I'm trying to help her deal with the guilt occasionally now. And you know...I'm glad she feels guilty. Because if she didn't, I'd still worry about it happening again.

 

As far as playing EQ, she should SERIOUSLY consider giving over leadership of the guild to someone else until she can get her own act together. Otherwise, that's always going to be an excuse for her to log in and "maybe" bump into him again. If she's going to do NC, she's going to HAVE to take a break from the game. Great idea in going to EQ2...and if you both decide you still want to play EQ, you can always start playing on another server...or move your characters over. It doesn't prevent contact, but it makes it less likely at least. I personally suggest you both give it up for at least six months...but gaming TOGETHER in another game makes sense.

[sysyphus]

She's real savy about log files, so maybe not a good idea. Besides, I really think I'd rather she know that the keylogger is there is if we go that route and not be sneaky about it. I'd rather see it as enforced openess than spying. Additionally, I need asolution that monitors everyting (IM, e-mail, in-game, etc.) if we do dedide it's a good idea (we being me, her and the thereapist).

 

As for friends and family, I think for the time being we're both of the mind not to taint anyone that doesn't need to know. Not sure how her family would react (probbly her dad wouldn't give a crap just use her as an example of evil women (her mom cheated on him -he's still bitter), her mom is 100% behind her so I don't think she would do anything but comfort her.. As for friends, the only friend that would have any effect on her already knows but isn't neccessarily a great ally -she too fell for someone on EQ once (my wife has beat herself up saying "and I thought she was an idiot for it, now look at me!"). I do think I will try to talk to her at some point because we do get along well and I do think she is the one person who could be an ally. The only thing I fear about her is she's very much of the "whatever makes you happy" sort. She knew that my wife was unhappy and didn't intervene then ,so I''m not certain if she's willing to help now. I'll ask though.

 

She has told the guild that she's going pretty much AFK, but no one wants the leadership and she was begged not to relinquish the leadership. So she's in and not in. I'm hoping that she will ease out of it as time goes along.

 

The big thing we're waiting for is the OM's mother is very ill and is teetering between going one way or the other. My wife has used this as a reason to continue contact until the situation either stabilizes, gets worse or improves. I'm not going to argue with this as she is a genuinely compassionate person and I don't want to force her to feel even worse yet. However, the deal is that in about a week and a half she's going NC. In the meantime the contact is quite limited and pretty much involves checking on his Mom's progress -I know this sounds really lame, but if all I have to give her is this little bit before she goes NC, I will, no matter how much it hurts to know they are still talking.

 

These days we are together a lot and we IM all day long when I'm at work so I'm hoping that that will both help us reconnect and keep her distracted a bit and therefore keep her mind off of him and disuade her from major contact.

 

I know she' hasn't talked with him in a while -she's getting really irratible (the weather's been keeping me home recently and there's no good contact over the weekend). Don't like to see her like this, but it's a good preview I suppose. We both quit cigs together and so I imagine it might be similar in terms of withdrawl.

 

Doing what I can.

[whichwayisup]

I'm not going to argue with this as she is a genuinely compassionate person and I don't want to force her to feel even worse yet. However, the deal is that in about a week and a half she's going NC. In the meantime the contact is quite limited and pretty much involves checking on his Mom's progress -I know this sounds really lame, but if all I have to give her is this little bit before she goes NC, I will, no matter how much it hurts to know they are still talking.

 

This all should take place by emails ONLY, NO IM's...And you have to be part of this process as well. She has to show you what he says and what she says back to him. No other communications by IM's or phonecalls.

 

You're handling things really well and you're very strong. I bet it isn't easy for you but it seems you've got alot of wonderful support from The WISE Owl (ducks AGAIN, lol ) and the others.

[Owl]

Well, here's my thought friend. If she's that saavy, you're just going to have to trust her...which sucks, given what's already happened. Don't bother putting a keylogger on...if she's as smart as you say, she's smart enough to know how to download anti-spyware programs to remove it.

 

I'm not sure why you're waiting on putting NC into place...because the longer you wait, the less likely she's going to do it. I can understand about her worrying about the OM's mom...my wife too is very compassionate. But....she's never met the OM's mom. She's not friends with her...my money says she's never talked with the woman. She needs to take responsibility NOW for her life...and start by doing what the counselor said.

 

IMing you won't prevent her from IMing him at the same time...we did the same thing when she was "supposed to" be NC with him. I began IMing her from work...she was IMing the both of us at the same time, but normally wouldn't admit to it until I either came home and she showed me the IM, or I asked her directly (because I would suspect due to the lag in her IM's). It may well be a good way to reconnect with you, however. Because it did allow us to "talk" about things that we couldn't handle face to face at the time.

 

Well, I wish you luck regardless of how you go about it.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Owl

It's actually too damn easy for it to happen in game, which is why I joke about a warning label being needed.

 

It also doesn't help that all the female characters are drawn with huge t!ts.

[sysyphus]

Owl,

 

The timing of the NC was negotiated with our therapist, so I'm not going to monkey with it. She is savy, but from the keylogger stuff I've looked into, even if shek new it was there, I think it would be safe. She's good with computers, but not that good. Then gain, I might be wrong - I was before. Anyne know if you can hide AIM buddy lists? I can see hers and he's not on it AFAIK.

[sysyphus]

Well today is tuesday, kind of a hard day for me because I know that OM is home today, probably playing EQ and they can cross-server chat if they want, maybe even call each other. I really don't know if my wife will be in contact with him or not ( my assumption is yes). Technically because of the deal we brokered, I really can't say anything one way or the other for now. The only clue I'll have is if she's in a good mood when I get home, I'll know she talked to him. Terrible how I try to read the signs (sigh). Worse still that the good mood isn't attributable to "us" but "them".

[Hep]

Didn't you marry your wife because she was your best friend? If her excuse for straying is because "she didn't want to hurt you" well doesn't that hurt you? I would like to think that she could have told you what was bothering her.

Money isn't everything, and it can't always make people happy. Do you know her favorite color? (it might have changed in the last 2 yrs) her favorite flower?? Get to know her again, I don't know much about your situation but it sounds like it could be saved if you both want that. Best wishes

[Hep]

Your other option is to give her some time away. as much as it might hurt. BUT you are hurting now so whats the difference. She can't feel too bad if she is still doing it.

[whichwayisup]

Hep, have you not read Sys's whole thread and understand the situation?? Just curious.

 

Sys, I bet today IS going to be hard on you, I wish I could tell you don't worry, but I can't.

 

Call her during the day, ask her how her day is doing. Does she HAVE to be in house all day long and be on the computer? Isn't there anything else she can do? Invite afew girlfriends over or something? Just a suggestion.

 

I hope things go OK today, and you try to keep as busy as you can so you're not focussing on what she may or may not be doing. Deal with it when you get home.

 

It might be something to bring up to the therapist. Trust can only go so far - and right now she really needs to MAKE you trust her, give you no extra's to worry about...

[Owl]

Hep-

 

It's interesting that you took this tack on this whole situation...talking about knowing his wife's favorite color. During the first counseling session with my wife, I'd pointed out that there was no way her OM could know her like I do (remember my situation is JUST like Sys's here...she had an online affair). I made the comment that "I know that you take two sugars and three creamers in your coffee...does he know that???" She responded with "Well, I take THREE and THREE now!!!" I got really upset and asked her when she'd told me that...when she'd asked me to change what to put in her coffee...of course, she said she hadn't. The counselor pointed out to her "Well, how was he supposed to know then?" My wife just sat there fuming the whole time. Even funnier is that her and I are still together....and guess how SHE asks me to fix her coffee...two sugar, three creamer!!! ROFLMBO!

 

My point is that at this point, there is a lot that he can't do, because she doesn't WANT him to do it yet. She won't accept it from him yet...she wants it from the OM. He's just going to have to hang on until the "fog" clears, and she'll be able to start accepting small things like that from him again.

 

Sys-

 

On dealing with the fact that the contact could still be going on...you're right, there's not a lot you can do at this point, and it sucks having to face that. I had all the same worries when I returned to work after my wife's affair came out...and it HURT.

 

Just hang in there, and keep doing what you're doing. It sounds to me like you've got a good chance at this actually...you've got a counselor who seems to be telling you the right things, and things hadn't gotten to the point of no return in their relationship.

[sysyphus]

Do you know her favorite color? (it might have changed in the last 2 yrs) her favorite flower?? Get to know her again, I don't know much about your situation but it sounds like it could be saved if you both want that.

 

We are best friends, and although i really do know her very well, it's been interesting the last few weeks. In many ways I do feel like I've rediscovered her -which makes it all the more awful sometimes b/c I almost feel more in love with her than ever -might just be fear I'm feeling though. Favorite color is blue, favorite flower is Orchids btw . The big hurdle right now is that shes says she wants to want it to work out -which really sounds a lot like she doesn't but feels bad about it. We'll see. Waiting for the fog to lift before I come to any conclusions. I think she must intuitively have some grasp of her state of affairs because she is always saying that right now she doesn't trust her feelings. Hoping time will be on my side here.

 

 

The flip side of the whole thing you mention is does he know any of those things about her and vice versa? I knew how she liked her coffee after our first date!

 

 

Does she HAVE to be in house all day long and be on the computer? Isn't there anything else she can do? Invite afew girlfriends over or something? Just a suggestion.

 

Roads are a tad snowy and she has the two kids. Unfortunately, the few friends she has around here mostly work, so she does tend to stay home with the rug-rats all day. We moved a round quite a bit and started having kids as soon as we arrived inthis area -far from her friends. She never really made many friends locally ,but made a lot on-line instead. Once the weather improves I hope she'll get out more. I don't think it's a coincidence that AFAIK the whole thing started getting serious over the early winter once she was getting cooped up all day and he was unemployed at the time, they spent all day keeping each other company.

[jmargel]

Originally posted by sysyphus

Well today is tuesday, kind of a hard day for me because I know that OM is home today, probably playing EQ and they can cross-server chat if they want, maybe even call each other. I really don't know if my wife will be in contact with him or not ( my assumption is yes). Technically because of the deal we brokered, I really can't say anything one way or the other for now. The only clue I'll have is if she's in a good mood when I get home, I'll know she talked to him. Terrible how I try to read the signs (sigh). Worse still that the good mood isn't attributable to "us" but "them".

 

You can't overwork your mind. I know easier said then done, but it won't make the situation any better. Do me a favor. When you come home tonight don't say anything to her. Let her initiate the conversion. Don't ask her if she talked to him, etc.. Don't say 'I love you' first either. Let 'her' make all the moves. When she says 'I love you' first, then you know she means it. If you are the one continuing doing it first, she may be saying it just in a response to what you said.

 

Also don't assume anything. If she is in a good mood, it doesn't mean she talked to him. Women are strange creatures. All the women I know have mood swings.

 

I hope you are following my advice from my previous post. I believe you mentioned that you were too 'needy'. Women hate that. So by letting her come to you, that's where you start to cure the 'neediness'. Also don't base your self-worth on her. If it doesn't work out your life won't end. It's going to be awhile before she gets out of this 'fantasy' stage. He was able to make her feel good about herself, even though he did not have to go through the daily events with her like you do.

 

This whole chat thing.. I used to do it now & then, and talked to a few on the phone. I've had two women tell me on the phone they were in love with me, before I even thought about meeting them. It's that point when I stopped contact with them. I used to chat for the past few years and out of all the people I chatted with, there was only one that had a connection with me. We talked for about a year before deciding to meet. I never met anyone from the net and long story short, we ended up not meeting. Maybe it was for the best but it still makes me wonder. She's married now & so am I. We no longer have contact. But I can probably guarantee that if we did meet, the high expectations that we had of each other would probably both leave us disappointed.

 

Right now you need to try to stop worrying about this other guy. You need to focus more on the relationship between you and your wife. Let the counselor worry about this OM. If your wife initiates contact with you when you get home and is pleasant take it as she is happy to see you. Then try going out to eat with her or going for a walk. And remember not to discuss the situation! Save that for the counselor's office.

[sysyphus]

And remember not to discuss the situation! Save that for the counselor's office.

 

That's exactly what we both have decided. We were tending to freelance our therapy a bit, talking about our issues, discussing our feelings and it would always devolve into a cyclical discussion of guilt and anxiety. The created way too much tension and pressure. I think we've both come to realize that that was really harmful, so we've both agreed to chill until our weekly session. Actually, being able to vent here has gone a long way towards easing my daily anxiety. It seemed that I would initate our conversations whenever something was bugging me and building up inside be it sadness or anger or whatever. The worst thing was once we had one of those discussions, I usually couldn't sleep and so the next day was exhausted and really couldn't deal well at all. We've been doing pretty well the last few days so I'm hopeful that we have a better handle on it. I know that almost anything can trigger these episodes, but I think we're learning to see them coming and head them off.

[sysyphus]

One issue I should make clear here and wouldn't mind some insight on is that my wife is really adamant that the issue isn't the OM, it's our marriage that's in the toilet. She gets really upset and tells me that twhen it first all came out, I really "got it" fast as too all the things I had been doing wrong . Now she says, I 've turned all into being about him and she doesn't want to go that route -wants to focus on the marriage. From my POV, she's right and wrong ,we absolutley need to work on the marriage, but as long as he's there, we can't make any kind of progress.

 

I suppose some of this is attributable to her attachment to him and doesn't like the idea that he needs to be dealt with as well as my issues, so she's trying to put him out of the conversation and therby somehow preserve him. Weird stuff.

 

You know ,I said this the other day, I think for the first time in my life I really feel like a grownup. Nothing, not moving out on my own, buying a house, or even having kids has made me have to dive this deeply into myself, my feelings, my behaviour and my relationship with my wife.This is soooo heavy and complex.

[whichwayisup]

Sys, she's in total denial. HE IS the problem right now...Maybe wasn't the cause, but honestly she still 'feels' for this guy and as long as he's there, she's feeding her daily dose and getting her fix of him. When she doesn't get it from him, she feels down and low. Then turns to you and may think to herself, Well he doesn't make me feel that way so therefore The marriage is the problem. I'm glad you are aware of this too. (I worded it abit diff. though)

 

That's BS and she's focussing on the wrong area right now. Yes working on the marriage is a MUST, but so is letting this guy go. As long as he is still around, her feelings are still there for him, like it or not. She's NOT trying to move on, let go and get closure from him. She's quietly hanging on it seems, just put it on hold.

 

She has waaay too much control and say on what is going on. SHE is the one who more or less cheated and crossed the line with this guy - she has to do NC and BE with just you. Time for him to GO.

 

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to sound harsh - Not my intention, but it really bothers me that she is putting this on the marriage and on you...She's not taken alot of responsibility of her mistake and she's definately NOT seeing how hurt you are and the after effects of what she has done.

 

I'm sure all this will be discussed in MC.

 

You know ,I said this the other day, I think for the first time in my life I really feel like a grownup. Nothing, not moving out on my own, buying a house, or even having kids has made me have to dive this deeply into myself, my feelings, my behaviour and my relationship with my wife.This is soooo heavy and complex.

 

Yup, I know what you mean...Various crisises and situations in life stop and make us realize things that weren't there before. It will change you forever and yes, it is hell right now, but you will be a much stronger and wiser person.

Unfortunately you were forced into this situation and now have to live through it all.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by sysyphus

One issue I should make clear here and wouldn't mind some insight on is that my wife is really adamant that the issue isn't the OM, it's our marriage that's in the toilet.

 

There are many issues that need work when a marriage is in trouble. An OP becomes chief among them. As far as issues go....an OP should probably be taken care of BEFORE we worry about who left the cap off the toothpaste tube, and who's turn it is to do the dishes.

 

When you prioritize the ISSUES.....an intrusive OP gets top billing.

 

Don't let her try to make two separate problems here. The main problem is that the marital relationship is at risk. The OM is a part of the main problem.