Hit Like a Ton of Bricks -Wife Doesn't love me

[sysyphus]

Just a had a small spat with the wife over AIM -not feeling too proud because she is right. Ever since this all came out, I've been AIMing with her. In most ways it's been great, we can share a lot during the day and I have a better sense of where she's at and can give her some support throughout the day. Unfortunately though, she just told me she feels like I'm using it as a babysitter. That I need it to help account for her time and activities. That she is afraid to do anything that would take her away from the computer lest I fear she's up to no good.

 

This was triggered because I had a tiny panic attack a few minutes ago after not hearing from her for a while. Usually she tells me when she's AFK, but not this time and I got a little panicked and called -woke the baby and now I'm in the doghouse for more than one reason. She's right, I guess I do rely on it to some extent to keep tabs on her, but God, I never thought she would feel "watched". I feel like a schmuck. Not sure what to say to her to make her understand. I can understand how she feels like she's under house arrest, but dammnit, I can't be expected to trust her absolutly this soon -I just can't yet. So I need to tread some fine line now between keeping her from feeling repressed and keeping me from being a paranoid wreck. I thought I was doing better about the OM thing, but I can see know that at least this crutch has become a problem.

 

I'm glad she could finally say something to me though. I wish she would be more forthcoming about her feelings. Obviously she's felt this way for a while. It seems that for now anyway, I'm the one who can come out and say how I feel , but she can't most of the time -not without a good deal of coaxing anyway. God, I just wish she would talk to me about all of this. She is so silent, waiting for something I guess. Not sure how to resolve this.

[Owl]

Hehehehe, I had that EXACT same conversation with my wife!!! EXACTLY!! And we sat down and talked about it some....and I backed off some too. You DO need to realize that you can't control her every move, and that at in reality you can't prevent her from resuming contact if she decides to do so. BUT...I STILL recommend you talk to her about a keylogger. If she's in NC, it will make you feel 100% better...and if she's in NC, she should have nothing at all to hide from you! I also think that she should willingly give you access to her email accounts, phone, etc... For at least the next few months.

 

I know this is going to set a lot of people around here off on the "invasion of privacy" tangent...but let me blunt...it's not about invading her privacy, its about preventing her from keeping any secrets...and about reassuring YOU that she IS keeping NC and is making herself an "open book" to you. For those of you who disagree...come stand in my shoes, or in Sys's for a while and YOU figure out how to begin re-building that trust after something like this.

 

Believe it or not, it sounds to me like you two are making progress....because I'm both seeing the same kind of steps that happened in my case, and because you're starting to TALK...probably for the first time in ages. The talks aren't going to be fun right now...but if they're honest, and not ALL centered around the affair, it will be steps in helping you both heal.

 

Hang in there friend. Don't feel like this was a totally bad thing...it's sparking the two of you to TALK! And...you might even consider 'talking' about some of this via IMs...because then you're not right there in each other's face, reacting to every emotion. It helped us out some in the beginning. Good luck!

[Ladyjane14]

I'm not sure that she should be able to expect unconditional trust while she's still in the withdrawal stage anyway.

 

Once she's gotten her depression symptoms under control, and is past the OM withdrawal, it'll be a different ballgame. As long as she's still vulnerable, she needs to also be accountable. She still hasn't EARNED it until then.

 

I have to say, when that time comes though....you have to MAKE yourself stop checking. And it's harder to do than you might think!

[sysyphus]

Thanks for the encouragement folks!

 

Owl your are right (as always ) I can't prevent her from having contact with the OM if she wants to do it. I guess part of my MO has been to at least be there with her (even if remotely) to keep her mind on me at least in hopes that it might keep her from feeling safe to make contact. Don't know if that's a logical plan or not. Monitoring phone and such isn't hard and so far the checking I've done hasn't turned up anything. I know that she hasn't been on EQ1 for quite a while. I'm still hesitant about the key logger b/c she does have an ongoing dialog with some friends that are giving her positive support and I would hate to have her feel like she can't talk to them in confidence, that and I'm afraid that I would feel like a jailer and that it would push her further away by making her feel kept and owned.

 

The one issue that is nagging at me is that I know she is in sporadic contact with a RL friend of the OM via AIM who she also knows through EQ. Apparently he's been playing her character on EQ1 for her to keep her active . I can't help but get a bit paranoid about it for some reason. Sometimes I wonder if the OM is standing over his shoulder while they IM -don't know and not proud of how it makes me feel. It's not my problem, but can only imagine him playing her character with the OM (very bizarre for him I would think but not my problem!).

 

We don't have MC this week, but I think I can make it through to next week to bring up these 2 issues there. I would like to have the MC there to bail us out if it gets hard.

 

Another day in the life!

[Owl]

Hehehe, I know that MO well friend....I think it's still some part of how I operate. We still IM a good amount now, but I think she's feeling a lot less 'tied to the computer' than she used to. Just explain to your wife the flat out truth...it's insecurity, caused by her actions. Let her know that it's part of how you are reassuring yourself that the NC is in place...becuase you know that it is CRITICAL for any chance at all for the two of you to repair your marriage. I know she's still not sure that she WANTS to fix things between you...she's still in withdrawl, so that is hardly surprising.

 

Again, be honest with your wife about what you're feeling...not attacking, don't try to make her feel bad, but if she wants to know, tell her what you're feeling, why you're reacting to things the way you are, what your worries about the friends and the future of your marriage is.

 

It still sounds like you're on track, friend. I know it might not feel like it...it's hard to keep hope, especially at the stage you're in at the moment. But so far there are a lot of parallels in what you're doing and what I did...and so far, I've been pretty successful.

[sysyphus]

Thanks Owl, that line of reasoning and that approach is exactly what I was looking for. I might have tried it on my own, but it's good to get advice from someone who's been there. I'll talk to her tonight I think. I still worry about pushing her away and so I hesitate to put her in a defensive posture, but I think if I do it as matter of factly as you put it, I might pull it off! Need to find a good time to do it.

[whichwayisup]

Sys, just wanted to tell you I think you're doing great! It's been a hellish rollercoaster for you and each time something has been thrown your way you've handled it rashionally and with so much honesty. I hope your wife sees this and takes to heart how much you do love her and not giving up at all.

 

Happy Friday and have a great weekend Sys.

[sysyphus]

The weekend report: Things went pretty well overall I think. We were going to go out Saturday night but our oldest got a stomach bug and we ended up cooped up in the house all weekend instead, -oh well. So no date night, but still a pleasant enough weekend. We've started working on some ren faire garb for her which provides a nice thing to together.

 

At one point during the weekend I was reading over her anti-depressant literature and we began to talk about our personal situations regarding need for them. What I found interesting is that although the literature said that ordinary misery didn't require chemical intervention, that she was going to do them anyway. She went on to say that she felt she was just having a normal grief reaction to loss. I hate to see her in pain, but it is almost heartening to hear her call this grief. It implies to me anyway, a sense of permanence to the OM situation. I am beginning to truly believe that she is serious about ending the affair. I am also a lot more confident that the NC is being maintained. Knowing my wife, even she doesn't like it, she will stick to it as a point of pride. She is a tough cookie when it comes to that sort of thing. I don't see how she could be going through all this misery and not be in compliance. Am I still paranoid? Of course, but I have a lot more rational thinking to fall back on when that little voice in my head says otherwise. We'll see.

 

Combine all of that with more and more talk of the future and a general sense of normalization between us and I am feeling more confidant that we can move towards reconcilement. I'm not putting any bets on where the relationship will go from there, but at least I see the possibility that the slide has stopped and that maybe we are getting to a point where forward momentum is possible. Oddly enough, we're at the magic 3 week point since the NC went into place. Noting dramatic, but I have noticed a vast improvement in her mood and our relationship.

 

One other note -Owl you'll probably have something to say one way or the other. In EQ2, we've hooked up with a guild (need to be able to score uber loot!). The guild is 50% other couples and we present ourselves as a couple. I can't help but think that the opportunity for us to do that is a positive thing. They refer to us as a couple and we also tend to present ourselves that way (referring to each other as husband wife, etc.). Regardless of our situation, it seems that reinforcing that identity can't be a bad thing. Also , this acts as a nice surrogate (I think -too early to really tell yet) for my wife's former guild that the OM belonged to . Maybe this makes for a good chance to start over in a similar, but better place for her.

[Owl]

Sounds like awesome progress, Sys. And right about on target with what I'd told ya happened with my case...it was around 3 weeks that some light started to appear at the very very far end of the tunnel. They say it takes 3-4 weeks to break a habit...so it sounds like things are going right on track.

 

This doesn't mean that the tough times are over friend, but it does seem ya'll are making some awesome headway!! Keep it up!

 

 

On the guild, it sounds like a good idea. But I'd like to make this suggestion...it's up to you and your wife as to whether or not this seems to apply in your case. In MY case, we simply duo'ed or did small groups for a LONG time after we started playing in game again...it was a chance for us to do 'us' things...you might consider having some way to keep that going as well. Again, just my thoughts.

 

And something that I've 'had on my mind' so to speak...

 

We recently (about a month or so ago) made friends with another 'couple' in game...not married, but I was given to understand they were long time BF/GF kinda thing. So for us it was nice to see another 'couple' that we could hang with...but... It turns out that they have been involved for a long time....but she's actually still married, and sorta(???) seperated from her husband?!?! WTF?!?! And then they ended breaking up this weekend...because he's been spending all his time with ANOTHER woman in game..../sigh.

 

Being with other couples MAY be a good thing...but remember, a LOT of couples are struggling with the same issues that you and I have had to deal with friend...hopefully this will help you wife to SEE the problem from the outside...and not make her feel justified in what she was doing.

 

Glad to hear things are going well friend!!!

[sysyphus]

Hey Owl, thanks for the reply. We are still pretty much douing for the most part, but doing the guild chat thing a bit -actually we'll be douing a while as we have some catching up to do on access quests and the like. I've been a bit cautious as well on the side of playing with other couples as well -I remember all to well how this all got going, but I'm thinking that with eyes wide open, maybe this will work out. Believe me, I'm on full alert.

 

It's really been nice to be able to to this with her b/c in the past, I didn't play with her (even though she asked me too early on). I feel like I'm catching up to her wavelenght on something that for good or bad has been a big part of her life. As with everyting, I'm playing it by ear!

[sysyphus]

Here we go, the Tuesday paranoia update. Last night, after playing EQ, my wife said "I think I'll play tomorrow (Tuesday) to make some headway on our new quest. My heart started pounding, my adrenaline was rushing and I got really shaky. My god, how could it be that she consistently only plays EQ2 on tuesdays (this is at least the 2nd or 3rd consecutive time she's done this). Why does she only seem to play on the OM's day off, and his EQ day? It's not like she plays on any other day of the week -just Tuesdays!

 

This time ,I couldn't let it go, no matter how much my rational mind was saying "let it go, you're just paranoid", I had to get it out in the open. I told her exactly what I was feeling about the situation, told her that despite my every intellectual attempt to get a handle on my suspicions, that there was something deep in me that goes into panic mode when something like this happens. She was cool about it -I don't think she can really comprehend the amount of damage done to my trust in her so it seemed a bit of an over-reaction on my part to her. I told her that I was sorry, but until some time had passed and I could get over this, that I was going to be viscerally paranoid for a while and that things like this set me off as much as I don't want them to. She said she hadn't realized that she had been playing on Tuesdays and that regardless, he wouldn't know if she was on. I didn't elaborate that it wasn't just the idea of him[/] making contact that had me nervous. She said she simply wouldn't play if that were the case. I guess I should see that as a very kind act on her part. She also made the point that if she wanted to make contact with him, she could, she didn't need EQ to do it. Not sure how that made me feel, but my impression was that she simply wasn't making any effort to communicate with him. I guess I have to have faith.

 

Now I went into back peddle mode, thinking it important to demonstrate trust and said I was sorry, that she should go ahead and play, that I just needed to clear the air on my sensitivity to what I had been observing. I'm sure it upset her, maybe even got her angry -don't know, it was late and we were heading off to bed. Didn't say much more. She did switch topics and seemed to be cool with it.

 

It seems that this is the flip-side of the AIM as babysitter issue. This time it was me who had to get something out in the open and she had to take the hit for causing the pain. Of course in both situations, it stems from my paranoia, so no matter how you look at it, it's me who's generating these ugly situations. Don't like that one bit. I wonder if she could really understand how wounded I am, if it would make it easier for her to understand my behavior. We could dissect the train of fault and bounce blame back and forth between us and ultimately bring it back to poor communication in the marriage, but there's really no point. I guess over all it's good that we can get these things out and not have them turn into melt-downs like they used to.

 

We've been so careful about not upsetting each other lately that we've gotten used to a comfortable "let's not talk about it right now" situation. To make progress ,we need to be able to say these things and bring the ugliness out into the light. I guess that successfully navigating these things a bit at a time is a positive step, no matter how icky it can make us feel about ourselves and each other. I've been so afraid to push her away that I've been knotting myself up rather than open an ugly wound -especially when the result is that I come out looking like her keeper. Her issues are much different than mine and so we have different needs and different ways of communicating (or not communicating) those issue to each other.

 

Well, now that the Tuesday Paranoia issue is out in the open, I hope I can get passed it and start healing some more.

[Owl]

Sys-

 

I so totally understand where you're coming from it's not even funny. I had to deal with that same thing....EVERY day I went to work. My wife's OM used MSN and EQIM to talk with my wife (that's how it all started with them in my case...he started EQIM'ing her from work...eventually they took it out of game to MSN). And I had to deal with that same fear everyday that I went to work after our d-day...it was horrible. I STILL deal with it occasionally...but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.

 

I'd take what she said to you at this point pretty much at face value...if she wanted to contact him, she could. Period. She meant that to gently remind you that it didn't matter if he was off on Tuesdays or not, the ability to reach out was always there...so it was to reassure you (I think) that no contact is still going on.

 

Trust me...she does NOT understand how damaged your trust is at this point. My wife will NEVER completely understand the whole of how her emotional affair affected me. She just can't. She feels guilt, remorse, etc...but she just cannot grasp how the whole thing changed my outlook, my trust, etc... I don't think that ANY WS actually gets it...unless they've been in the position that they put their spouse into themselves at some point. And even then, I'd gaurantee that they limit how much they let themselves see.

 

The not talking about it all raises some concern to me, my friend. My counselor wasn't sure if WE were talking about what happened much, and seemed to feel that this was pretty critical for us to work through. His recommendation to us was to setup some specific times, and some specific limits, and a definite method to talking about the affair, what lead up to it, how it affects us now, and how we were going to deal with things going forward. We were already established in doing this by the time our counseling started tho...we'd gotten in the habit of taking walks every nite after the kids went to bed and talking then.

 

Basically, what he suggested was that we set a small amount of time every nite to sit and talk through the tough emotional issues. A half hour, to an hour tops. It should happen at a point where distractions are minimal, such as right after the kids get to sleep. He suggested that one person start out with something (and we alternate each nite who starts)...and that they get the floor, uninterrupted at all by the other spouse, for as long as it takes for them to put forth their point. Once they finished, the other person should sit there for a few minutes without speaking, and work through what was said. THEN, they would repeat back the gist of the comment (to make sure that the other person knew that they'd been heard), and would respond as calmly as was possible with their reaction/response to their partner's comment. The person who started off would respond the same way to the second person's comments...pause, repeat, respond. And if possible, that would be the end of that topic for that nite. The second person would then lead off with something else...and this would go on until one of three things would happen...either time was reached, they ran out of things to talk about, or it finally became so upsetting that one or the other couldn't continue to be rational.

 

The bottom line is this...you DO need to start talking about it. Yes, it hurts. But it won't STOP hurting if you don't talk about it. And something that your wife is going to struggle with, but will need to learn is that YOU need these conversations very much...because it was the LIES, the SECRECY, the LACK of communication that is what hurts the most. You trusted her...and the real pain comes from the damaged trust more than anything else at this point. By being open and honest about the affair NOW will begin that healing that both of you need. She's not going to understand that...because she's still following an instinctive desire to keep the details of the affair hidden from you.

 

Explain it to her this way...the damage really is already done. She's got nothing left to lose at this point by being honest with you...it's time for all the secrets to come out now...because if they don't, it will be much harder for both of you to deal with them later. And here' something that she won't understand at first, but will later....SHE will feel better for clearing the air. Having finally spoken about something she kept hidden up to this point will make her feel tons better....but she won't anticipate that at first.

 

Last thing...have the conversation over coffee, or something relaxing. And always plan on having a small treat (ice cream, candy, etc...) for the two of you to share afterwards. And ALWAYS share it...no matter how rough the discussion was for either of you...ALWAYS have that treat together afterwards, with NO further discussion on the subject. It HELPS....trust me! (The treat thing was my idea, but it sure helped a lot! )

 

Talk with your counselor about this...bounce the idea off of him. He'll tell you I'm a bleedin' genius!

[sysyphus]

The not talking about it all raises some concern to me, my friend. My counselor wasn't sure if WE were talking about what happened much, and seemed to feel that this was pretty critical for us to work through.

 

We brought up the walking on egg-shells issue with him last session and his response was that we weren't really ready to talk yet. His plan seems to get us just plain old talking together well first. I think we're fine in that regard, so next session, I will bring up this whole situation and talk about your idea. Thanks Owl.

 

The wife seems really cheerful this AM, so I guess it wasn't as much of a kick as feared it was. Maybe she's a bit more sympathetic than I give her credit for. I am anxious though to get talking about our feelings.Seems I do the lion's share of the sharing where she feels that all of her current issues are with the OM and can't share that with me. Think the MC will need to prompt her on that area. Obviously she has a lot more to deal with than the OM, but it seems she wants to clear the deck of that before going any further . But again I'm guessing b/c she ain't saying much.

[jmargel]

It's hard for your wife to know how much you are bleeding on the inside. This isn't due to your insecurity or something psychological on your part. This has to do what she has done to you. This is something you shouldn't feel sorry for, or something that is not normal. This is something she needs to accept. Why doesn't she just uninstall that game and throw it away? What is more important? I would think the game shouldn't be that important if she *only* plays on tuesdays.

 

If you truly don't trust her, there is a free key logger:

 

xxhttp://home.rochester.rr.com/artcfox/TinyKL/

 

Take the xx out, copy & paste into your browser. Read the directions. Then you WILL know what she is doing. Also, ask her for her account info and log in when she's not around. See if he messages her. Do it in a non-chalant way.. Tell her you'll level her up or something.

 

This is what you may need to keep yourself sane for awhile. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as over a period of time you can remove the key logger & let her play without thinking the worst. Her words have been faithless so your mind will wonder & continue to wonder unless you do something. If she was talking to him do you really think she's going to admit it? That is what you don't truly trust. Therefore to protect yourself you may have to do what I suggested above.

[sysyphus]

Why doesn't she just uninstall that game and throw it away? What is more important? I would think the game shouldn't be that important if she *only* plays on tuesdays.

 

A slight misunderstanding here (but not hard to do!) She and the OM played EQ1 together -she doesn't play that at all anymore. We have been playing EQ2 together and that is what she has been occasionally logging into without me. Technically, there is very little wrong with the scenario except that you can chat between the games if you know the server name and character name of the person you are trying to connect to. I don't know if the OM knows her info, she she obviously knows his (they played on the same server in the past). It would be easy enough for him to find out anyway.

 

I guess the big point that she and both Owl made, is that if she wanted to contact him, she could. No amount of snooping is going to prevent it (just verify it -then what?)and no amount of paranoia on my part is going to do me any good. I need to learn to deal with what is essentially a survival instinct kicking in whenever something seems a little off. All I can do is let her know that I'm concerned, rationally or not.

 

She's a good person, who made a mistake, I don't want to make her keep paying for it. So, unless I have a good idea that the NC is actually being violated, I need to chill. I know my wife and I do believe her when she says she's being good about the NC. One problem I have is that there is almost a presumption that there will be resistance and sneaking around. In our case there was -before the official NC. The day I discovered the affair I asked her to cut off contact until we could work through things and she agreed. She blew it within days. She later told me she knew when she promised that she wouldn't be able to do it. After discovering that, I really blew my stack and we nearly ended it right there, but luckily made it to our 1st MC session before that happened. Over the next few weeks her contact was reduced (read back early in this thread for some details). Then the official NC was brokered by the MC. Sooooo, long story short, I think that we (or she rather) went through a slow ,stepped separation so that when the real NC began, she was emotionally and mentally ready. Could I be kidding myself, sure , but my gut tells me I'm right.

 

Thanks for all the great advice and support folks.

[Owl]

Sys-

 

I think you're probably correct in saying that the 'tapering' off of the contact has worked...I don't know that for sure any more than you do, but I know that it seems in a lot of cases that the contact really does tend to taper off rather than truly end cold turkey. I know it did in my case...

 

JM-

Remember that she's still stuck in that 'withdrawl' phase somewhat. Normally when a WS confesses on their own that they had an affair, and they 'come clean' with their spouse, there's a lot less waffling back and forth, and they're normally a lot more committed to re-building the relationship up front. When the BS DISCOVERS the affair, that's usually another matter. It takes time for them to 'get over the affair', and get past the loss of the OM and the death of that relationship. They're almost never TRULY willing up front to do what they need to in order to rebuild. That's why Sys (like I had to) is taking his time in working things out...because until she gets her head back together, anything he does to fix the relationship just won't matter...she doesn't get it yet. (Like the song says...during that time, her "Give a damn is busted").

 

Once she's over the grief of the end of the affair, and starts coming out of that 'fog' and 'withdrawl', she'll start thinking for the first time in a long time. And she'll start re-warming to the idea of working on the relationship. But that takes time.

[sysyphus]

Yet another weekend update:

 

Friday we had our MC session. Went pretty well. My wife and I both agreed that if we had to put our situation on a scale, we'd say we are about where we were before everything exploded. Not where we want to be, but at least we both feel like the slide has stopped. We touched on a few areas where both of us probably caused each other hurt by simply not communicating well and understanding what the other was really saying or doing. Honestly, I hate to believe this, but it seems to me that so much of our problems stems from not "getting it" regarding each other's needs and somewhat passive attempts at expressing ourselves. For my part, I'm certain that I didn't recognize her attempts to reach out to me in the past -they weren't blunt enough for me to see them for what they were . I thought it was simply "silly" insecurity on her part and caused a lot more pain by trivializing the issue (Q: Do you love me? A: What do you think? Of course I do! ) Didn't see that that was actually her telling me that she had doubts about my love and needed reassurance and a demonstration. Stupid me just brushed it off like it was nothing to worry about.

 

The MC made it clear that we should never say "It's no problem" or "It's no big deal, don't worry about it" b/c although that seems like a way to reassure, it is actually trivializing the other's feelings about the issue. Man, I do that all the time.

 

On the other side, he suggested to her, that although I may not have been doing the things she wanted or needed, that I was in fact expressing my love and affection in my own way. That precise issue has been really big with me b/c I really do believe that she doesn't always see some of the things that I do as acts of love. So where she saw me doing nothing (or little) I thought I was doing plenty! For my part, I have always expressed a lot of my love by "doing". I do things to make her happy, to fulfill her material needs, to lighten her load. I'll do the dishes, I'll make dinner , I fix stuff around the house, build things for her, do a lot of the "work" around the house. I don't do these things b/c I'm just a nice guy, or out of obligation, or b/c I think she can't or won't do them -I do them gladly because I love her and want to do them for her. Now that doesn't mean that those things alone are what need to be done, but I think it is a significant demonstration of my love that she may well have missed (and continues to I'm afraid).

 

Which brings me to the down side of an otherwise good weekend. We spent the weekend working on our various household projects (gardening, shopping, working on her ren garb, etc.) I really put my butt in gear to make sure that all of "her" priorities were my priority. I pitched in on her gardening where I could, I ran errands for her, did a lot of the heavy work in getting some of her gardening plans operational, and tried to keep the kids out of her hair so she could get some sewing time. On top of that, I had a number of things that needed to get done like mowing the lawn, and dealing with an emergency pipe leak in the basement

 

This is where it went bad. After all of this truly exhausting, non-stop effort, I had given her time to do some sewing, but at a certain point, in order to get some of her gardening stuff prepped before we ran into dinner time (which I was going to make), I needed to hand-off the kids to her for an hour or so. Well, she got really pissed that he had to stop sewing. I can't tell you how hurt I felt. In the past, I would have gotten pissed off, these days I get profoundly depressed instead. After all this work I was doing for her benefit, it wasn't enough and she went and got all pissy. It really hurt and I felt overwhelmed. I was exhausted and the kids were beating the stuffing out of me. I couldn't take it anymore so I told her I needed to take a break. I tried to find someplace quiet to go so I could just take a minute to get it together. I ended up lying down and found myself overwhelmed with sadness and just sobbed for 15 minutes or so.

 

I was so unhappy and disappointed that once again, I was giving and giving to her and yet she didn't see it for what it was and didn't seem to appreciate it at all. All of this got me to the point of thinking about the past and the whole issue of her not understanding what all of this meant to me. At first I thought I should just go back downstairs, all pathetic and tear-streaked, waiting for her to see how much pain I was in. I thought better of it and got myself together and reminded myself that no matter how much I do right now, it's probably not going to score any points, but that I was going to keep giving until it did mean something to her and until she could understand that this was all done with, and out of, love.

 

Later last night she did say thank you for all the work. It was a fairly business-like thank you, not the sweet embrace I would have liked (but can't expect now). For now, I guess I need to be grateful that we're not going backwards and be patient with her progress as well as my own.

 

On the way home from our MC session, she told me that she was both hopeful and apprehensive. I'll focus on the hopeful part.

[whichwayisup]

This is where it went bad. After all of this truly exhausting, non-stop effort, I had given her time to do some sewing, but at a certain point, in order to get some of her gardening stuff prepped before we ran into dinner time (which I was going to make), I needed to hand-off the kids to her for an hour or so. Well, she got really pissed that he had to stop sewing. I can't tell you how hurt I felt. In the past, I would have gotten pissed off, these days I get profoundly depressed instead. After all this work I was doing for her benefit, it wasn't enough and she went and got all pissy. It really hurt and I felt overwhelmed. I was exhausted and the kids were beating the stuffing out of me. I couldn't take it anymore so I told her I needed to take a break. I tried to find someplace quiet to go so I could just take a minute to get it together. I ended up lying down and found myself overwhelmed with sadness and just sobbed for 15 minutes or so.

 

I was so unhappy and disappointed that once again, I was giving and giving to her and yet she didn't see it for what it was and didn't seem to appreciate it at all. All of this got me to the point of thinking about the past and the whole issue of her not understanding what all of this meant to me. At first I thought I should just go back downstairs, all pathetic and tear-streaked, waiting for her to see how much pain I was in. I thought better of it and got myself together and reminded myself that no matter how much I do right now, it's probably not going to score any points, but that I was going to keep giving until it did mean something to her and until she could understand that this was all done with, and out of, love.

 

Later last night she did say thank you for all the work. It was a fairly business-like thank you, not the sweet embrace I would have liked (but can't expect now). For now, I guess I need to be grateful that we're not going backwards and be patient with her progress as well as my own.

 

Just a suggestion, but maybe start writing out your feelings to her. Either in an email and/or a hand written note. For starters, it could open up alot of honest flow between the two of you and without dealing with eachothers first reactions...Good and bad reactions, know what I mean?

 

I think you should tell her what you said. Bring up what you wrote in the above in marriage councilling and explain WHY you didn't approach her...How it made you feel. All of it.

 

You're doing really well, I just want to tell you that. I read what you write and there is so much love but alot of pain...It is worth that pain to get things back to where they should be. Alot of work but well worth it.

 

On the other side, he suggested to her, that although I may not have been doing the things she wanted or needed, that I was in fact expressing my love and affection in my own way. That precise issue has been really big with me b/c I really do believe that she doesn't always see some of the things that I do as acts of love. So where she saw me doing nothing (or little) I thought I was doing plenty! For my part, I have always expressed a lot of my love by "doing". I do things to make her happy, to fulfill her material needs, to lighten her load. I'll do the dishes, I'll make dinner , I fix stuff around the house, build things for her, do a lot of the "work" around the house. I don't do these things b/c I'm just a nice guy, or out of obligation, or b/c I think she can't or won't do them -I do them gladly because I love her and want to do them for her. Now that doesn't mean that those things alone are what need to be done, but I think it is a significant demonstration of my love that she may well have missed (and continues to I'm afraid).

 

This can all be fixed by understanding eachother. I guess she may not have seen it because she's in her own head alot and maybe doesn't interpret that as caring love - Something you're doing for HER because you want to make her happy. My husband does tons of wonderful little things for me and I always acknowledge it because it does mean alot...Makes him feel good too. Keep the lines of communication open with her - I think she'll definately come around...Slowly, but she will.

 

Have a good Monday.

[Owl]

Sys-

 

I'm too lazy to go back and ask if I'd suggested you read "The Five Languages of Love", but it's a resource you may want to look at and talk with your wife about.

 

One more time, you sound exactly like me...our situation was precisely the same when we talked about the months leading up to (and during) her EA. I was doing all that I could to express my love for her...by doing just what you did...doing acts of service for her....and it had exactly the OPPOSITE effect on her that I had intended. She'd complained in the past about how housework was wearing her out, and was never-ending. So, I started taking over as much of the running of the house as I could manage, along with my job. SHE took this as just one more indication that we didn't need/want her around....so it was a big negative instead of showing her the love that I'd intended. You two need to sit down and TALK about how you show love, and what each of you RECEIVE as love too.

 

You sound a lot like me...my three main 'languages' are 'acts of service' (doing things for each other) and 'words of love and affirmation' (telling each other how much you love them, and positive things about them), and physical affirmation (hugs, physical intimacy, etc...). My wife's 'languages' USED to be much the same, but they've changed over the years, and are in different 'order of preferences' now too, so that made and makes things even harder sometimes.

 

Something else to keep in mind too, especially when you start to blame yourself too much. There really isn't much that you could have done to meet her needs once the EA started. Trust me...she probably shut herself off from you during that time, and you could have done everything right, but there was just no way she could have seen it during that time.

 

I don't know if I suggested this before, but you might also consider taking a look at the forum over on the Marriage Builders website, friend. There are a lot more people over there, and a MUCH greater understanding of emotional affairs than here. MUCH greater...and there are a few people posting over there that have been in your wife's shoes, and can do a lot to help you understand her perspective (Cardsonly, 2BNormal, Gentlesoul are a few of the people you might look for). PM me if you'd like more info bro!

[sysyphus]

Thanks guys, I really should talk to her about this issue -it is huge for me. I held off yesterday b/c I recognized that I was feeling way to unstable to deal with it well, but you are right, it needs to come out. I'll see if I can muster the courage.

 

Owl, thanks for the tip about the other forum. I will check it out. Right now, the thing I really do need is the perspective from the other side. I feel like there's this big black box sitting between us and it mostly contains her thoughts and feelings. She just doesn't seem to want to talk a whole lot. She told me that right now, her only issues are dealing with the NC and she won't talk to me about that. As far as talking about us, she seems really resistant. I don't know if it's fear or hope that not talking about it will make it go away, or if she thinks all we have to talk about is the EA, or what. I suppose I can try to be the leader on this area and see how it goes. It may just be too early yet to expect her to be ready to open up to me.

 

In terms of direction, our MC seems to want us to focus on going forward more than examining the past too much. I think he's correct in the sense that I in particular may tend to dig up the past more than would be helpful.That said, it is vital that we talk about what got us to this point and how we can fix it. Maybe my wife thinks all I want to talk about is being sorry and sad. I want to understand her, what makes her happy, how I can make her happy and more importantly, what I did or didn't do that drove us apart. At the same time, I want to express the things that hurt me in the past that contributed to this mess.

 

Either way, I can't expect miracles, but at some point we need to stop simply coexisting well and make the effort to connect, no matter how painful. Avoiding painful issues is exactly how we got here -we can't keep doing that.

[sysyphus]

Hey guess what?

 

It's Tuesday and I'm not paranoid .

 

Things are feeling pretty OK and that in itself makes me feel pretty good. Talked to my doctor today and got on some anti-depressants, my wife goes to get hers tomorrow. We'll be a cozy family of pill-poppers , but hopefully it's a short term solution to help us get on with our long-term goals.

[Owl]

Well, believe it or not, it's not the anti-depressants. Those take at least a week (usually closer to two) before they start to have an effect. I think that perhaps its more the realization that NC is sticking, and things aren't as bad as they were a month ago? I could be wrong, but it seems likely.

 

I hope things do start to come around for you, my friend. Hang in there, keep showing her the love and support you have so far, and that, combined with no contact, should help her come around.

 

(Oh, and don't tell the wife they take that long to have an effect...you'd be amazed at how good the placebo effect could be for her! )

[sysyphus]

Nah, wasn't crediting the pills -just a number of events that are happening at the same time. As for not cluing her in -won't work, she's got a medical background and knows more about them than I do!

[Owl]

Darn those smart women!!! I married a smart one too..../sigh. Sure makes it hard to get away with much sometimes! LOL

 

Glad to hear you're doing well friend!

[sysyphus]

At the kind suggestion of a wise, helpful friend I've taken most of my activity over to the marriage builders forum -nothing against this group, but over there the discussion is a bit more specific and focused. It's been especially beneficial to have the insights of several WS's. Anyway, not that I've abandoned this board so here's my most pertinent update:

 

I've been having some issues dealing with my wife's "closed-ness", not knowing how she's feeling and thinking. So I finally needed to talk about it.

 

Last night I poured my heart out to my wife. It was very emotional, but not a blow-out or a melt-down, just a release of a number of the issues that have been gnawing at me. I do feel a lot better, even with the new insights I have from her (which aren't all great).

 

I asked her about her feelings towards my attempts at filling ENs and she said she was fine with that and in fact that I've been wonderful. I told her how sometimes I feel like they get a chilly reception and she said it wasn't on purpose and that I should tell her when I perceive it -keep it out in the open.

 

I asked her about her general feeling towards our progress and she said (as I 've noted before) that she feels like we are about where we were before everything blew up (ie, not "in love", but friendly I guess). She told me that she was not unhappy, not feeling like running away or anything ,but I certainly got the impression that she wasn't getting what she wants from our marriage (I wouldn't expect that at the moment).She said she was giving it time and wanted to stop hurting the family and hoped she could be the person she should be. I dind't press on that one , but I am curious -does she feel like she has let us down? Or that somehow she can't find her way back to what we once were? Or that she needs to be someone that she isn't?I have to admit, one of the first reactions I had to the whole EA besides my own sense of betrayal was how could she do this to our kids? At the time she said that she felt the kids deserved happy parents and since she wasn't happy, she was going to go find happiness. Funny how a happy father didn't make it into her equation

 

This idea of not being able to be happy with me seems to be at the crux of her situation. Last night she expressed her fears if not doubts about being able to find happiness (ie Love) with me, but was giving it time. I wish I had a plan for getting there besides waiting.

 

At this point she said she was doing what she felt she could -maintaining NC and trying to spend time together and try to reconnect as friends.

 

I tried to relieve her of the idea that I was fixated on the EA. I made it clear that I am 100% focused on the now and the future and that I realize that there is nothing I can do about the past other than learn from it and that I was ready to go forward with her and that I wanted to be there for her in anyway she would let me. I tried to encourage her to try to let me in -to take a chance on me.

 

I should note that she said that a few months back, she was so negative that whenever she told me how she was feeling all she was doing was making things worse -it would add to my anxiety and set off our melt-downs. Now though, with things not so negative and her willingness to at least wait and see, that maybe we can begin to open up to each other more.

 

Most importantly I told her that right now, the thing I need from her is openness and honesty -that all of our problems and my hurt both stem from her not telling me what she was feeling and doing. She didn't really make a commitment to it other than to say she was trying.

 

So there it is. We both had a good talk and a good cry. I hope it did us some good.

 

 

Thanks to everyone out here for all you've done for me. You have all done so much to get me out of a very big hole and helped put me on the path to being able to deal with all the hard work I have ahead.