5 months after Dday...no more ILYs

[enya46]

Hi all,

 

Hopefully somebody can give me some insight. I am feeling very hurt and don't know if and how to continue my relationship with MM.

I call it relationship because, apart from the PA we have, and which I sense is coming to an end, I consider him to be a great man whose friendship is worth keeping....if I can handle it.

 

I posted before that we had Dday beginning March 2014 after a very intense EA/PA, that started in July 2013 (we knew each other from the university times, had two ONS back then. I left to work abroad, and hadn't seen each other for 23 years).

We lived in different countries but I travelled often to where he lives because my family is also there. When we could not meet there, there was a business trip in the middle of the way, where we arranged to see eachother.

The rest of the time, we spent texting and talking on the phone.

 

He was always clear to me that he didn't want to give up his family, but at the same time he confessed that he loved me and said it often.

Although he said he was still sleeping with his W, he said it was very seldom and quick. They just weren't very sexual together, but he didn't complain about that.

 

He told me he never felt such a good connection phisically as the one we both have. Bliss. Well, I guess I am not telling anything new here. Most of us OW probably feel pretty much the same about the wonderful connection with MM.

 

I just trying to be realistic and not see my case as a special case. I have read many, many threads and I feel a lot of empathy with many of you.

 

After Dday, I thought it was over. He used to say: if we get caught, it's over. He said this because the subject of having an A had come up to conversation some times at home ( a friend of theirs was involved and got caught, his sons would not speak to him, etc) and my MM's W would joke and say that he should be careful not to do the same or it would be over good time.

So he was warned.

 

Well, after Dday, he felt very guilty and he said his self esteem was on the floor, that he neverr thought he would cause her so much pain. He felt dirty and sad to have hurt the person who trusted him most.

 

His W was devastated and, although he didn't give me many details, he said she knew who I was and had seen some of our messages.

 

I suddenly felt miserable, like numb on my side and only wanted to do something to make the pain stop for him, and her.

On the other side, I was angry that we got caught "so soon", just after 8 months, without the chance of doing so many things we had planned. What a selfish thought.

 

I started to hope that they D. If his feelings were true for me, then maybe this was just what we needed to "set him free". Another stupid thought because he DIDN'T WANT to be set free. He wanted to stay in the M and see me at the same time. He told me also afterr Dday that he didn't expect to get caught so early and that he was too naive to think that he could have everything.

 

During the following weeks, they talked and decided not to separate. She made it clear to him that he needed to "define himself". He said he did: he wanted to stay with his family. And so he told me.

 

But he never said that we need to stop contact. Two weeks after Dday, we were talking on the phone, me crying and telling him that I cannot handle this LC any longerr and him, asking me to give him time.

 

We kept texting and phoning, he sounded more cheerful and i hardly asked him how things were at home.

 

Three months later, when i was visiting my home town, he came over so we could talk about us. We had wonderful sex, which he started. I was sitting almost five feet away from him on the couch and he reached out for me.

 

Since then, we've slept together another two times, when I came to visit.

 

Now my problem, and why I need your thoughts, experience on this:

 

Since Dday there has not been a single text with ILY or IMY or IWY. The most : "kisses", "hugs"...

I feel that our sensual and romantic and emotional texts were a huge part of our A. Since he now is extra careful to not getting caught again, I feel like I am just collecting his crumbs.

 

After we spend hours together walking, eating out and making love, I feel the need to send him a text with an ILY.

 

Ok, last week he texted me "Good night, it was a beautiful day".

But this is NOTHING compared to what he used to tell me before Dday.

 

I asked him yesterday why he doesn't tell me those nice things any more and he said that he can't. He can't devide himself.

 

When I said: "well, but you are deviding yourself when you have sex with me", he said "true, but I thought that we can take things in this more "light" version".

 

I feel like he is giving me less and less emotionally, but he still doesn't want to end the sex (when he has time to get away).

On the other hand, he texts every day and sends me pictures of wher he is, or asks me what I'm doing. He gives me advice on work issues, he tells me about his work and projects. And I feel so sad not to have this man on my side.

 

I don't know what to do. Is his behaviour "normal"? Can you just stop saying ILY to soemone you have feelings for just out of respect to his W?

 

Thank you

Edited August 12, 2014 by enya46

[peaksandvalleys]

Hi all,

 

Hopefully somebody can give me some insight. I am feeling very hurt and don't know if and how to continue my relationship with MM.

I call it relationship because, apart from the PA we have, and which I sense is coming to an end, I consider him to be a great man whose friendship is worth keeping....if I can handle it.

 

I posted before that we had Dday beginning March 2014 after a very intense EA/PA, that started in July 2013 (we knew each other from the university times, had two ONS back then. I left to work abroad, and hadn't seen each other for 23 years).

We lived in different countries but I travelled often to where he lives because my family is also there. When we could not meet there, there was a business trip in the middle of the way, where we arranged to see eachother.

The rest of the time, we spent texting and talking on the phone.

 

He was always clear to me that he didn't want to give up his family, but at the same time he confessed that he loved me and said it often.

Although he said he was still sleeping with his W, he said it was very seldom and quick. They just weren't very sexual together, but he didn't complain about that.

 

He told me he never felt such a good connection phisically as the one we both have. Bliss. Well, I guess I am not telling anything new here. Most of us OW probably feel pretty much the same about the wonderful connection with MM.

 

I just trying to be realistic and not see my case as a special case. I have read many, many threads and I feel a lot of empathy with many of you.

 

After Dday, I thought it was over. He used to say: if we get caught, it's over. He said this because the subject of having an A had come up to conversation some times at home ( a friend of theirs was involved and got caught, his sons would not speak to him, etc) and my MM's W would joke and say that he should be careful not to do the same or it would be over good time.

So he was warned.

 

Well, after Dday, he felt very guilty and he said his self esteem was on the floor, that he neverr thought he would cause her so much pain. He felt dirty and sad to have hurt the person who trusted him most.

 

His W was devastated and, although he didn't give me many details, he said she knew who I was and had seen some of our messages.

 

I suddenly felt miserable, like numb on my side and only wanted to do something to make the pain stop for him, and her.

On the other side, I was angry that we got caught "so soon", just after 8 months, without the chance of doing so many things we had planned. What a selfish thought.

 

I started to hope that they D. If his feelings were true for me, then maybe this was just what we needed to "set him free". Another stupid thought because he DIDN'T WANT to be set free. He wanted to stay in the M and see me at the same time. He told me also afterr Dday that he didn't expect to get caught so early and that he was too naive to think that he could have everything.

 

During the following weeks, they talked and decided not to separate. She made it clear to him that he needed to "define himself". He said he did: he wanted to stay with his family. And so he told me.

 

But he never said that we need to stop contact. Two weeks after Dday, we were talking on the phone, me crying and telling him that I cannot handle this LC any longerr and him, asking me to give him time.

 

We kept texting and phoning, he sounded more cheerful and i hardly asked him how things were at home.

 

Three months later, when i was visiting my home town, he came over so we could talk about us. We had wonderful sex, which he started. I was sitting almost five feet away from him on the couch and he reached out for me.

 

Since then, we've slept together another two times, when I came to visit.

 

Now my problem, and why I need your thoughts, experience on this:

 

Since Dday there has not been a single text with ILY or IMY or IWY. The most : "kisses", "hugs"...

I feel that our sensual and romantic and emotional texts were a huge part of our A. Since he now is extra careful to not getting caught again, I feel like I am just collecting his crumbs.

 

After we spend hours together walking, eating out and making love, I feel the need to send him a text with an ILY.

 

Ok, last week he texted me "Good night, it was a beautiful day".

But this is NOTHING compared to what he used to tell me before Dday.

 

I asked him yesterday why he doesn't tell me those nice things any more and he said that he can't. He can't devide himself.

 

When I said: "well, but you are deviding yourself when you have sex with me", he said "true, but I thought that we can take things in this more "light" version".

 

I feel like he is giving me less and less emotionally, but he still doesn't want to end the sex (when he has time to get away).

On the other hand, he texts every day and sends me pictures of wher he is, or asks me what I'm doing. He gives me advice on work issues, he tells me about his work and projects. And I feel so sad not to have this man on my side.

 

I don't know what to do. Is his behaviour "normal"? Can you just stop saying ILY to soemone you have feelings for just out of respect to his W?

 

Thank you

I do not know if it is normal but if he has so little respect for his wife he is unlikely to respect someone else he claims to love. Isn't it possible the only one he loves is himself?

[DKT3]

So, he is giving you just enough for you to continue allowing him to have sex?

[Sugar Magnolia]

yes he can stop saying ILY,,, he didn't love you... he needed you... u were a soft place to fall, the keeper of Disneyland.... now he feels guilty for screwing with your mind,body and soul, so he will keep the connection,,, it helps with the guilt, the circle will continue,,, his wife will find out...

seems to me the only reason you would want to be friends with him is that you are still in love with him....

please stop, no good can come of it

[whichwayisup]

He is using you now and you allow it. You want romance, the I Love You's, etc etc, but you won't get it from him. He is one of those guys who can separate love and sex. You can't.

 

End it because he chose to stay married. End it because you deserve better than to be his side dish. End it because then maybe you'll start loving and respecting yourself again.

[sunburned]

"I feel like he is giving me less and less emotionally, but he still doesn't want to end the sex (when he has time to get away). "

 

Well, yeah. Why would he?

 

 

Most men would love to get sex in exchange for work advice. Even better if you only had to text the occasional travel pic! I've written this on two other threads today, but I believe he is doing the minimum to keep you hanging on. It sounds like he really likes you, but he's clearly not leaving. So where is this going to go? You either hurt now (and possibly for several more months) or continue eating the trail of breadcrumbs and hurt in six months, a year or whenever you reach your breaking point or have a 2nd Dday.

 

 

Yes, I think you can just stop saying ILY in an A out of "respect" for your spouse, especially after a dday. If he were single and in a single relationship, it wouldn't be unusual to have sex but not say ILY. To him, your post dday A is "new" ("light," he said) and the rules are different. I read on LS that MM are quick with the ILYs because they don't have to "make good" on it. They don't need to "prove" it because "hey, OW, you knew I was married."

 

 

I am a MW who had a brief EA (with some kissing) with a MM. He said ILY early and pressured me to say it. I did, but stopped and told him point blank I couldn't love two people and still loved my H. It was the beginning of the end.

 

 

The good news (maybe?) is he can't compartmentalize. That's my take when he says he can't divide himself. Another thing I learned in the post-A self improvement frenzy was that people who can compartmentalize can live forever in a state of deception. Who wants that?

[enya46]

He is using you now and you allow it. You want romance, the I Love You's, etc etc, but you won't get it from him. He is one of those guys who can separate love and sex. You can't.

 

End it because he chose to stay married. End it because you deserve better than to be his side dish. End it because then maybe you'll start loving and respecting yourself again.

 

whichwayisup, thank you.

I am not sure he can separate love and sex.

He drives 100 km one way to spend some hours with me and drives 100 km back. We don't only have sex when we are together. We talk, we go for walks, we leave the sex for the end.

What you are 100% right about is that I can't. And yes, I need the romance.

Ending it seems like the right thing to do, but it's so hard to just block him off my life completely.

[enya46]

yes he can stop saying ILY,,, he didn't love you... he needed you... u were a soft place to fall, the keeper of Disneyland.... now he feels guilty for screwing with your mind,body and soul, so he will keep the connection,,, it helps with the guilt, the circle will continue,,, his wife will find out...

seems to me the only reason you would want to be friends with him is that you are still in love with him....

please stop, no good can come of it

 

Yes Sugar, I am still in love with him

[enya46]

So, he is giving you just enough for you to continue allowing him to have sex?

 

DKT, I enjoy having sex with him. It's not that I'm doing him a favor.

But he is giving me just not enough emotionally in between.

He used to, though, and I miss that.

I wonder why Dday cuts off the romantic words, but not the friendly contact and the sex.

What did he feel the night before Dday, that he stopped feeling afterwards, to make him stop saying ILY, but not the rest.

[KaliLove]

Why don't you stop sleeping with him and see what happens? That should answer your questions.

[DKT3]

DKT, I enjoy having sex with him. It's not that I'm doing him a favor.

But he is giving me just not enough emotionally in between.

He used to, though, and I miss that.

I wonder why Dday cuts off the romantic words, but not the friendly contact and the sex.

What did he feel the night before Dday, that he stopped feeling afterwards, to make him stop saying ILY, but not the rest.

 

 

Kalilove hit the point I was getting at. This is about sex for him, if he was truely scared of being found out he would cut physical contact not emotional.

 

Dday didn't change how he felt about you. Listen enya this guy has actually been somewhat honest with you, your just not accepting it. Has has pretty much told you he wants a friend with benefits. Its clear its not what you want. Where do you see things in a year? Five years? It doesn't sound like your married, do you plan on a future with him?

[enya46]

Kalilove hit the point I was getting at. This is about sex for him, if he was truely scared of being found out he would cut physical contact not emotional.

 

Dday didn't change how he felt about you. Listen enya this guy has actually been somewhat honest with you, your just not accepting it. Has has pretty much told you he wants a friend with benefits. Its clear its not what you want. Where do you see things in a year? Five years? It doesn't sound like your married, do you plan on a future with him?

 

DKT, yes, he has always tried to be honest with me.

It's difficult to accept because sometimes he would say "I don't want out of my M" but other times he would say "I try to put a shield to cover my feelings" or "I love you, I can't wait to hug you."

So yes, I am having a hard time accepting it. And I am ashamed about it.

I clearly don't want a friend with benefits. I want the romance and the drama. The feeling that he wants to be with me more than with his wife.

 

The thing is, he probably does want to be with me more often. But he does not want to lose his family, his structured life and all what he has built with her during the last 20 years.

 

I understand that. When somebody asks me: what would you like that happens?, i realise that I don't have an adult, realistic answer. How can you expect someone to just leave everything and hurt people (he has two teenage daughters) for a passion?

 

I am not married. I have been in a relationship with a wonderful man for 10 years, but I ended it last year because I didn't feel the passion in anything we did together. We were very much roommates and I couldn't imagine the next years with him.

 

With MM everything is fun and new and full of passion. Well, was.

 

He was fully into the A but he risked too much and his W found out.

 

I don't see a future with him, but I would love to go back to how our A was before Dday. And if not, I would like him to tell me that he loves me once in a while.

 

I am not closed to meeting other people. I practice sports, have good friends, a good job, so it's not that my life revolves around him. My mind does though, at the moment...

[GreySkyMorning]

Yup, seems to be about par. For me, dday was Mar 5, 2013 and that was the last time he said he loved me. I've never heard the words since, even though we stayed in LC for almost a year and met twice for sex. It changed instantly for him into a friend with benefits thing. And why wouldn't it? I allowed it after all. I didnt stand up for myself. I took whatever I could get just to still have him, so he gave as little as he had to. Hell, he had it made at that point. The wifey was welcoming him back with open arms, offering everything to reconcile, hysterical bonding, and he even got to still have me to turn to for all the needs she still wasn't meeting, including even more sex! And now, all of a sudden, she wanted him! Wow, TWO women fighting for him! He was a jerk. Your mm is pretty much the same.

[enya46]

Grey Sky,

 

my Dday was the 4th March 2014.

Maybe it's something about the month ...

I will read your threads, but how did you end the A or what was left of it?

Was it very hard?

Thanks,

E.

[Mount]

OK, If a Married man can not even give words "I love you" "I miss you" ....etc , what is the point you are with him?

 

Here everyone says we should look at action, not words, because almost everyone gets words from MM or MW "I love you" "I miss you" "I want you" ...etc sweet talking plus future planning (doesnot matter it is true or not),your MM even does not want to serve your words from lips. At least during the A OWs or OMs are getting emotional satisfaction.

 

So what is your point to have the Affair with this MM?

[KaliLove]

It sure doesn't sound like he loves you. It sounds like he said it to get you to open your legs, but he knows he has you hooked now and he doesn't need to say it anymore. The other stuff is just ego boosting for him. At least, this is what it seems like objectively from what you describe.

 

Again, stop sleeping with him and see what happens. That will give you all the answers you need.

[Hope Shimmers]

Why don't you stop sleeping with him and see what happens? That should answer your questions.

 

OP, I'm going to take a different view than most of the other posters here. He sounds like my ex-MM.

 

I don't think it's likely that his feelings for you changed just because of the D-day. I do think that he thinks that if he doesn't say "I love you" or other such phrases then it isn't as if he is cheating in the same way that he was before. My ex-MM actually told me that directly and explained it to me - he did the same thing - and told me too that even though he still loved me, he could no longer say it because it would be wrong. It is typical male compartmentalization.

 

I don't think that his level of interest in you suggests that it's all about sex. Lots of people here like to think that it's always all about sex. It isn't always.

 

As for the post I quoted above, in my situation, we rarely had sex due to geographic distance and we had an understanding that there would be no further meeting or sex, and there hasn't been in many years, yet he still wants and craves the emotional connection and contact from me.

[gettingstronger]

JMO- does not matter what "was"- what matter is what "is"

 

He has been pretty clear on what he wants and how the relationship is going to work-now its your turn-accept it for what it is or don't and walk away-

We all have power over us, but very little power over others-

[Hope Shimmers]

JMO- does not matter what "was"- what matter is what "is"

 

He has been pretty clear on what he wants and how the relationship is going to work-now its your turn-accept it for what it is or don't and walk away-

We all have power over us, but very little power over others-

 

Agreed.

 

But sometimes it matters to think about why things are the way they are with someone you love.

[gettingstronger]

HS, I get it but I have learned my love of self trumps all. Really, if I need to ask total strangers on the internet if my SO loves me, I need a reality check. We talk a lot about ourselves and our feelings and our experiences. But looking for someone to tell us the guy we sleeping with loves us means we have lost sight of us.

 

The OP knows the deal deep down. She's just looking for someone to give her that unhealthy glimmer of hope that keeps her in a relationship that is no good for her.

[gettingstronger]

It's all good! I know I can be a bit of a rabid feminist but it's because I see the damage our ow did to herself by allowing my husband to have so

much power over her. He was honest about his intentions, but the attention he paid to her lead her to lie to herself and him. I think it's sad that we mostly see broken women on here, no matter what side of triangle we are on!

[enya46]

Woa! I wake up to so many posts.

I really feel like a newbie here.

 

Hope Shimmers, thank you for your "balancing" words. I was starting to feel like an innocent dumb***, who "opens her legs" for work advice.

I have read many of your posts in LS and have great respect for how you take your time to get things through, and address all comments. Your experience with your xMM in this case helps me see the possible reason behind my MMs decision.

 

Also the fact that when I read the posts, I initially assume they come mostly from OW/OM, who are trying to share their experience to be able to support OP.

 

I wouldn't expect a comment from BS, if he/she is not trying to be objective. I would have my problems providing feedback on a subject I never experienced before. However, BS do have the insight of what the MM told them so it is also interesting to read those.

 

All that being said, i am NOT asking total strangers if my MM loves me, as an OP implied.

 

I started this thread because I am very hurt and sad to see how he has stopped saying all these nice things (which kept my feelings for him and the need to see him at 250%). We lived far away and the physical contact happened only once a month or even every two months).

I wanted to know if somebody else had "suffered" the same behaviour from their MM after D-Day, and if they could share their thoughts.

 

I know that his feelings haven't changed. I haven't done anything to make them change from D-Day-1 to D-Day+n.

Maybe when he said he loved me he was thinking he loved me and D-Day opened his eyes to whom he really loved.

Maybe it's what HS stated, that he feels he is not cheating "that much" if he is not saying the words.

 

I asked him and his answer was: I can't. I can't devide myself, after what happened.

 

Maybe i should point that I am moving back to my home country in October because I finally found another job here, which allows me to leave my current one abroad.

 

My MM supported me all the way through with my decision to move back and when I told him I got the position he was so happy for me. The day I had my interview he called me several times before and after to wish me luck. He was more nervous than I was.

 

I often think that the fact that I will now be nearer, scares him a bit. Because the gettogethers we had before were based on very in advanced planned dates.

 

For me it's going to be difficult because I will assume that since he is so near, then he can just hop on his car and cone and see me.

 

One way or the other, we have no future together because he is very clear about wanting to keep his way of life.

 

I just would like things to be so clear to me. Sometimes it hurts so deep inside not being able to hug him and seeing his smile. Sometimes I think how self-centred he is and it makes me see things from a more objective perspective.

 

E.

[Robert]

Let's post to the topic please, thanks

[Patna]

Enya, we may have the same MM. Lol!

 

Had a Dday last December, and since then all the ILY, IMU etc stops. He stops calling me 'dear' too. But the daily calls, text didn't stop. Neither did the sex. During this period, I kept questioning what does he want? Is he making use of me for sex only or he truly still loves me. Despite us still talking, I can obviously feel that he's not as emotionally invested anymore. And when I do confront him about all these issues because I felt hurt, he would often brush me aside or get upset because he also said there's no point in discussing because he simply cannot invest feelings anymore. Like what you said, what's the point of still being together when all the sweet nothings, dates, are all gone? But yet we still accepted that little breadcrumb they offered.

 

I had been quarreling with him a lot since April over this and in late June, he broke up with me. But he still contacts me everyday even though I didn't want to meet him anymore. Anyway, three weeks later we met, and guess what, sex again. Well, now I'm thinking he's probably been contacting me everyday to feed my emotional need to feed his physical need in return. It's a sad world. After the last time, he's withdrawing again. So this week, I'd been very sad. Do I still want to be string along at his convenience just to see him once a month? Obviously, like someone mentioned... He's giving me lesser and lesser because I allowed. Why would he want to give more now since he know he can give that little to still get what he wants... Oh well...

[woinlove]

One way or the other, we have no future together because he is very clear about wanting to keep his way of life.

 

I just would like things to be so clear to me. Sometimes it hurts so deep inside not being able to hug him and seeing his smile. Sometimes I think how self-centred he is and it makes me see things from a more objective perspective.

 

 

Enya, it seems things are clear that he wants to stay married and continue to have an affair with you, although perhaps there is not clarity on details of that affair, whether he will ever say he loves you again, etc.

 

What is the clarity you seek? About his feelings? About what the affair will be like in the future? Or is it clarity about what you yourself want that you seek?