5 months after Dday...no more ILYs

[enya46]

Enya, it seems things are clear that he wants to stay married and continue to have an affair with you, although perhaps there is not clarity on details of that affair, whether he will ever say he loves you again, etc.

 

What is the clarity you seek? About his feelings? About what the affair will be like in the future? Or is it clarity about what you yourself want that you seek?

 

Woinlive,

Yes, I seek clarity about his feelings. I do not want to have sex with somebody I love, but does not love me back.

[enya46]

Enya, we may have the same MM. Lol!

 

Had a Dday last December, and since then all the ILY, IMU etc stops. He stops calling me 'dear' too. But the daily calls, text didn't stop. Neither did the sex. During this period, I kept questioning what does he want? Is he making use of me for sex only or he truly still loves me. Despite us still talking, I can obviously feel that he's not as emotionally invested anymore. And when I do confront him about all these issues because I felt hurt, he would often brush me aside or get upset because he also said there's no point in discussing because he simply cannot invest feelings anymore. Like what you said, what's the point of still being together when all the sweet nothings, dates, are all gone? But yet we still accepted that little breadcrumb they offered.

 

I had been quarreling with him a lot since April over this and in late June, he broke up with me. But he still contacts me everyday even though I didn't want to meet him anymore. Anyway, three weeks later we met, and guess what, sex again. Well, now I'm thinking he's probably been contacting me everyday to feed my emotional need to feed his physical need in return. It's a sad world. After the last time, he's withdrawing again. So this week, I'd been very sad. Do I still want to be string along at his convenience just to see him once a month? Obviously, like someone mentioned... He's giving me lesser and lesser because I allowed. Why would he want to give more now since he know he can give that little to still get what he wants... Oh well...

 

Patna, yes, very similar attitudes

 

Today I asked him again. I told him I need to know about his feelings for me if we are going to keep the A. He said: "it is not that easy. This can tie you. I hope you understand what I mean".

 

....???

 

After a couple of hours another message: "do you know what I mean?"

 

 

Well, no! I don't. I wish this 50 year old man would be much more specific and clear.

[Meretchen]

Dear Enya - have you read Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue Please do it. Do it now and buy the book "Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl". Seriously. All my thoughts go to you and everyone in a situation like this. We need to wake up.

Edited August 13, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed commercial URL

[Mount]

I think he is quite clear, you are keeping giving your feeling your time, he has not given anything inicluding verbal expression of loving you, not his time,not his attention, not his personal time helping you on anyway.

 

So the reason you stick with him is? Do you know why?

 

Patna, yes, very similar attitudes

 

Today I asked him again. I told him I need to know about his feelings for me if we are going to keep the A. He said: "it is not that easy. This can tie you. I hope you understand what I mean".

 

....???

 

After a couple of hours another message: "do you know what I mean?"

 

 

Well, no! I don't. I wish this 50 year old man would be much more specific and clear.

[woinlove]

Woinlive,

Yes, I seek clarity about his feelings. I do not want to have sex with somebody I love, but does not love me back.

 

When someone wants to keep both a marriage and a secret affair, questions like does he love his wife, does he love the OW, are not so simple. Certainly if it's the kind of love most of us seek in a committed romantic R, where we expect our loving partner to be sensitive to our needs, to want to see us happy, and to quickly stop behavior that hurts us because they hurt to see us hurt, then it clearly isn't that kind of love for either the wife or the OW. The MM may not even be capable of that kind of love, as not everyone is.

 

In any case, the way you describe MM's current behavior, that doesn't sound like loving behavior to me, but it does sound like he is attached, maybe even addicted. Whether he is only attached to the sex, I don't know. He may also be attached to some emotional need you satisfy in him. After d-day he probably needs to feel better about himself and advising you or helping you could be satisfying that to some extent. What I don't see is him being tuned into your needs and desires to the extent that one would expect for a man in love.

 

You really do deserve more than this. And I'm sure if you end things with MM, stick to NC, you are much more likely to have the kind of love you deserve in your life one day than if you continue to put up with MM and his behavior.

[whichwayisup]

"it is not that easy. This can tie you. I hope you understand what I mean".

 

What he means is, you getting too emotionally detached, clinging to him and making more of the affair than what it is. You love him, he isn't loving you back that way. He can offer you sex and fun, no strings attached. He doesn't think you can do this without strings or emotions.

[Hope Shimmers]

What he means is, you getting too emotionally detached, clinging to him and making more of the affair than what it is. You love him, he isn't loving you back that way. He can offer you sex and fun, no strings attached. He doesn't think you can do this without strings or emotions.

 

I think only he knows what he means.

 

But I don't personally think he is saying that he just wants "sex and fun". His interactions don't support that. I think he is doing the same thing that my ex-MM did, which was that he wanted the emotional affair to continue in terms of the contact and communication, but that he can no longer do the "I love you" thing because that would create expectations for more - or the potential of a future - to the OP. He wanted to do what he always did best which was to consciously put everyone in a separate box, defined how he wanted or needed to (and constantly re-defining those definitions) but he didn't want the emotional affair to go away. He just wanted the expectations and guilt to go away.

[Patna]

Patna, yes, very similar attitudes

 

Today I asked him again. I told him I need to know about his feelings for me if we are going to keep the A. He said: "it is not that easy. This can tie you. I hope you understand what I mean".

 

....???

 

After a couple of hours another message: "do you know what I mean?"

 

 

Well, no! I don't. I wish this 50 year old man would be much more specific and clear.

 

My MM's replies are also similar. Sometimes I wonder if they have a script for MMs He always say if he say these words, then he will tie me even more emotionally closer. He also said to say these words comes with responsibility. He cannot give me anything so he can't say out these words to me. Sometimes I believe him. But on bad days, I'll have all the doubts again. I hate all the emotional roller coaster. I guess you must be riding on one too. Hugs.

 

I want to go NC, but I often break it. The longest I ever lasted was 3 weeks then I give in again. The 1st 2 weeks were always the hardest. But come the 3rd week, I would feel better. In fact, finally felt to be the real me. Then I always gives in to contact soon after cuz I thought I can manage better now. The truth is I cannot. So I'll probably start NC again and hope I'll carry through this time.

 

Have you considered NC? Actually during NC, I kind of see a lot of things clearer even though it was only a short while. I begin to see things more objectively than emotionally. I also feel more in control of my emotions and life. I don't know how NC will go along any further than 3 weeks because I have not tried. I read that some feel worse, but majority do feel better. We need to love ourselves more. Hugs.

[jwi71]

Woinlive,

Yes, I seek clarity about his feelings. I do not want to have sex with somebody I love, but does not love me back.

 

Enya,

 

Question.

 

How do you know someone loves you?

Is it enough for him/her to say "I love you"?

Or does it require more?

What "more" would that be provided simply saying "I love you" proves to be insufficient?

[enya46]

Enya,

 

Question.

 

How do you know someone loves you?

Is it enough for him/her to say "I love you"?

Or does it require more?

What "more" would that be provided simply saying "I love you" proves to be insufficient?

 

Jwi,

Good questions.

I know someone loves me when I feel it.

I feel it when that person is happy when I am happy, when that person shows me that I also make him happy. When he doesn't want me to suffer. When I sense that he wants to spend time with me.

Since we see each other only once every month or so, the words do take over the actions. He used to text me every day many times, just to know what I was up to, what I had for breakfast, if I went for a run. He would send me an article he would write, for me to give him my opinion...

At night he used to go to bed and start texting me at 11 until his W went to bed (she usually goes very late). We would talk about the day, plans, he would tell me about his daughters, his family. We sometimes had "text-sex". Anyway, he was always there. Before going to sleep, there were always loving words: I miss you so much, I can't wait to be with you again, Send me a smile, etc, etc

 

All those words definitely showed me that he loved me. He couldn't give me more than he was giving. And I accepted that because, I understand that you can have feelings for two people at the same time, and that you don't want to throw away 20 years of building up a family. You don't want to see your two teenage daughters hate you, your parents, your Wife.

 

Now, since D-day, all those messages have been reduced to the tenth, and they are no longer loving. Yes, he writes almost every day, but it feels like he's just checking in.

 

When we meet, it's different. He can't stop kissing me and telling me how beautiful he sees me, and it's difficult for him not to hold my hand when we walk outside or go for a drink. I feel love during these hours.

 

But when he leaves, I know that the loving words I used to get before, after a day of passionate love making, will not come. I get a good night kiss text, saying that it was a beautiful day. That's it. I don't feel his love anymore and it makes me cry.

Edited August 14, 2014 by enya46
to correct typo : live iso love

[jwi71]

I feel it when that person is happy when I am happy, when that person shows me that I also make him happy. When he doesn't want me to suffer.

 

ARE you happy?

 

Since we see each other only once every month or so, the words do take over the actions. He used to text me every day many times, just to know what I was up to, what I had for breakfast, if I went for a run. He would send me an article he would write, for me to give him my opinion...

 

And words are easily lies are they not?

I would focus more on how someone is treating you than on what they say.

And by that I mean, are they exhibiting behaviors that say "They love you" vs merely saying it? After all, I'd wager he tells his W ILY too. But he isn't showing it very well (to say the least).

 

More importantly, what do his ACTIONS say about you?

 

Most importantly, what do your own actions say? For instance, do you tolerate behaviors from MM that, were he single, you would slap him silly? That's part of "moving the line" to stay in an R. And its VERY unhealthy. Do NOT compromise yourself for the sake of another - who may or may not love you.

 

From my PoV - I only see him taking care of himself. HE clearly doesn't care about hurting his W or family - as evidenced not only by having an A but by continuing it after dday. Hard to say his words and actions are in alignment there.

 

I would also argue he doesn't love you either. He KNOWS his actions cause you to suffer - but does so any way. And, now, he has even stopped bothering with even the words. Do you believe that one who loves another treats them in a manner they know hurts them? Repeatedly?

 

All those words definitely showed me that he loved me.

 

enya, ILY and you are the light of my life. You are the only star in my sky. Never have I felt such soft and gentle yet power love for another.

So

often we hear or read of the power of love - but I never truly knew it until I saw you, knew you - loved you. MY heart beats not for me...it is now yours.

Based on that, I should be loving you like no tomorrow. And you should be feeling the love - or nausea - no one has ever accused me of being poetic. I got the words right yes?

 

Or is there something missing?

 

And what is missing is not MORE words - but ACTION.

 

Actions matter. They always trump words. Witness every politician ever.

 

He couldn't give me more than he was giving. And I accepted that because, I understand that you can have feelings for two people at the same time, and that you don't want to throw away 20 years of building up a family. You don't want to see your two teenage daughters hate you, your parents, your Wife.

 

Are you saying that, because this was an A, it was ok for him to treat as he did? As he does now. Remember what I said about "moving the line"...this is moving the line. It is accepting of actions to remain in an R, specifically an A, that, were he NOT married, you would slap him silly.

 

Its excuse making.

 

Here is an exercise for you. What has he done, truly done, that says he loves you and wants the best for you. That he wants to BE your H. Actions, not words.

 

Now, since D-day, all those messages have been reduced to the tenth, and they are no longer loving. Yes, he writes almost every day, but it feels like he's just checking in.

 

You missed the action. Namely, there is NONE. Likely, if you take a step back and look, never much action there. Just words. And you moved the line to accept it.

 

When we meet, it's different. He can't stop kissing me and telling me how beautiful he sees me, and it's difficult for him not to hold my hand when we walk outside or go for a drink. I feel love during these hours.

 

Caused by you or caused by him?

And do NOT miss his action. At dday he made a choice. You excuse the choice by saying its hard to leave 20 years and children and "all". Clearly it isn't. He is, after all, cheating. STILL. What does that ACTION say? About you? About him? About his family? About the future?

 

But when he leaves, I know that the loving words I used to get before, after a day of passionate love making, will not come. I get a good night kiss text, saying that it was a beautiful day. That's it. I don't feel his love anymore and it makes me cry.

 

I hope you can take off the rose colored glasses and see.

Time to stop looking at the shadows on the wall and emerge from the cave.

 

There are, for me, only two questions.

1) are your needs being met?

2) Will (not can) he meet them?

 

Sorry my words are not likely to be comforting or even well received.

Just something for you to think about.

[KaliLove]

What are you hoping will happen? Where do you see this relationship going in the future?

[Hope Shimmers]

Enya, I totally understand how you feel. It's really hard to go from what you had before, to the way things are now.

 

Please don't let any strangers on the internet convince you that he didn't/doesn't love you. No one does the things he did without that (and yes, those are ACTIONS, not words). I don't believe people "fall out of love" just overnight like he did, just because of a D-Day, but I do believe he consciously changed the way he interacts with you. He did not instantly lose feelings for you, but D-Day told him he could no longer have the kind of emotional connection with you that he enjoyed before. That is what I believe.

 

If he didn't love you he would not be contacting you still. YOU are the best person to know that because only you know him. Please don't let people here tell you otherwise - they don't know you and they are reacting from their own perspective and situations, and they don't want to believe that a MM can actually love their AP. It doesn't make an affair right, but the fact is that not all A's are about just sex. Mine certainly wasn't, because we rarely had any.

 

The fact is that it probably won't go back to the way it was, so it's up to you to decide what you want now.

[DKT3]

Enya, I totally understand how you feel. It's really hard to go from what you had before, to the way things are now.

 

Please don't let any strangers on the internet convince you that he didn't/doesn't love you. No one does the things he did without that (and yes, those are ACTIONS, not words). I don't believe people "fall out of love" just overnight like he did, just because of a D-Day, but I do believe he consciously changed the way he interacts with you. He did not instantly lose feelings for you, but D-Day told him he could no longer have the kind of emotional connection with you that he enjoyed before. That is what I believe.

 

If he didn't love you he would not be contacting you still. YOU are the best person to know that because only you know him. Please don't let people here tell you otherwise - they don't know you and they are reacting from their own perspective and situations, and they don't want to believe that a MM can actually love their AP. It doesn't make an affair right, but the fact is that not all A's are about just sex. Mine certainly wasn't, because we rarely had any.

 

The fact is that it probably won't go back to the way it was, so it's up to you to decide what you want now.

 

Hope I don't think its about if he truely loved her or not. Its about respect. He is trying to place her in a box (other woman, side chick or whatever) he has told her he wants her to be his sex buddy without any commitment on any level. If he loved her he would respect what she wants, which is an emotional connection. Take away the fact that this is an affair, he is simply not respecting her as a woman. For me respect and love go hand and hand. You can have respect without love, but not love without respect.

[Hope Shimmers]

Hope I don't think its about if he truely loved her or not. Its about respect. He is trying to place her in a box (other woman, side chick or whatever) he has told her he wants her to be his sex buddy without any commitment on any level. If he loved her he would respect what she wants, which is an emotional connection. Take away the fact that this is an affair, he is simply not respecting her as a woman. For me respect and love go hand and hand. You can have respect without love, but not love without respect.

 

I missed the part where he literally told her that he wants her to be only his sex buddy. Certainly I agree he told her he didn't want a commitment. What I question is that he suddenly dropped the emotional part of the A.

 

I think it matters to the OP whether he loved her or not. It mattered to me at the time so I can relate to it.

 

If you use the argument that if he loved her he would respect her, then that means he doesn't love his wife either. I think that people can love someone and still be selfish.

 

It is true that she needs to make a decision as to whether this is enough for her, as I said before, and that is the bottom line. But I think part of that is realizing why his behavior changed. I agree with you about love and respect.

[DKT3]

I missed the part where he literally told her that he wants her to be only his sex buddy. Certainly I agree he told her he didn't want a commitment. What I question is that he suddenly dropped the emotional part of the A.

 

I think it matters to the OP whether he loved her or not. It mattered to me at the time so I can relate to it.

 

If you use the argument that if he loved her he would respect her, then that means he doesn't love his wife either. I think that people can love someone and still be selfish.

 

It is true that she needs to make a decision as to whether this is enough for her, as I said before, and that is the bottom line. But I think part of that is realizing why his behavior changed. I agree with you about love and respect.

 

Well he didn't say F buddy, but he said "I never had this SEXUAL connection with anyone" and followed up with "keeping it a light version" when asked about pulling back emotionally. Translation? Sex buddies.

 

Yes you can love someone and be selfish, you can't love someone you don't respect. By asking someone to accept less then they are worth so you can have from them what you want comes from a lack of respect. She is worth more then he is willing to give.

 

I feel that if you know you can't give or won't give a woman what she wants in a relationship and you care for her, you let her go so she can find it with someone else. I was raised knowing that as being a MAN. Loving someone means putting their needs ahead of your sometimes and at least equal all the time.

[Hope Shimmers]

Well he didn't say F buddy, but he said "I never had this SEXUAL connection with anyone" and followed up with "keeping it a light version" when asked about pulling back emotionally. Translation? Sex buddies.

 

Yes you can love someone and be selfish, you can't love someone you don't respect. By asking someone to accept less then they are worth so you can have from them what you want comes from a lack of respect. She is worth more then he is willing to give.

 

I feel that if you know you can't give or won't give a woman what she wants in a relationship and you care for her, you let her go so she can find it with someone else. I was raised knowing that as being a MAN. Loving someone means putting their needs ahead of your sometimes and at least equal all the time.

 

DKT3, my ex-MM did the EXACT same thing, almost word-for-word, and it wasn't about sex because we weren't having any sex. It was about his guilt and what he felt he "needed" to do.

 

Having said that, I completely agree with you. My posts in this thread aren't about encouraging the OP to stay in this situation - obviously I didn't stay in a similar situation. What I was trying to do was give credibility to her feelings and share MY feeling that it doesn't have to be "just" about sex and counter all the others here who have said "he doesn't love you". No one can know that, or why he's doing what he's doing. In my opinion his previous actions are not someone who was emotionally unengaged so I would tend to believe what he said, and I find it difficult to believe that those feelings just leave literally overnight because of a D-Day.

 

I think it's pretty important for someone to believe that their entire time spent with someone they love was not a lie, if that is the truth or the likely truth.

 

As you pointed out though, it doesn't change the fact that he is not meeting her needs. I don't know if OP has tried to do anything other than ask to discuss the reasons for the change (ie, I don't know if she said "I just can't do this" yet he still persisted in trying to do something that he knew she didn't want).

 

Her original post said she was hurting because he stopped saying the affectionate things and wondered why that was the case. Several people declared that it was because he definitely didn't love and her and was using her for sex. I was just trying to come at the situation in a different manner (hopefully a more positive one) than others have, because I really have been there and I do believe that there is no "proof" that he doesn't love her - really just trying to answer her question of "why".

[jellybean89]

Agreed.

 

But sometimes it matters to think about why things are the way they are with someone you love.

 

A person can think and analyze another person all day long, doesn't change facts or actions. This MM has put the poster in a box. For sex? Maybe. For love? Hardly. You don't disrespect someone you love. You don't willingly hurt someone you love. You don't go from full on affair to "light" with someone you love. Love makes you want to BE with the person, not send a silly text. LOVE makes you want the best for someone, not the "light" version.

 

Maybe he keeps in contact so she doesn't go crazy and tell his wife? Maybe he knows a woman scorned is not the best thing. Maybe he is hoping SHE will get sick of being treated so casually that SHE will end the affair.

 

But she continue to hang on, asking for more ILY, more words. Words he has told her he is NOT going to say. Doesn't matter if he feels them...he isn't saying them and that is what the poster needs to come to terms with.

 

Does he love her? In my view - Doubtful. He loves himself. He loves the illusion of being a husband and father. He loves having a woman pining for him, begging for more words. He loves the attention she gives him. He loves the way she makes him feel. And he loves that he doesn't have to put forth much effort to get his ego stroked.

 

 

Please don't let any strangers on the internet convince you that he didn't/doesn't love you. No one does the things he did without that (and yes, those are ACTIONS, not words). I don't believe people "fall out of love" just overnight like he did, just because of a D-Day, but I do believe he consciously changed the way he interacts with you. He did not instantly lose feelings for you, but D-Day told him he could no longer have the kind of emotional connection with you that he enjoyed before. That is what I believe.

 

If he didn't love you he would not be contacting you still. YOU are the best person to know that because only you know him. Please don't let people here tell you otherwise - they don't know you and they are reacting from their own perspective and situations, and they don't want to believe that a MM can actually love their AP. It doesn't make an affair right, but the fact is that not all A's are about just sex. Mine certainly wasn't, because we rarely had any.

 

The fact is that it probably won't go back to the way it was, so it's up to you to decide what you want now.

 

Please don't let strangers on the internet make you believe that he has this deep soul crushing love for you. Please don't let strangers on the internet keep you hanging onto someone who will not be there for you. Please don't let strangers on the internet tell you he loves you, when they have no idea as they aren't him. Not one single person on this thread has ever stated that a MM can't love their AP. Not sure where you got that from.

 

Love doesn't equal sending a text or an email. Love is an action. Anyone can say ILY and not mean it. Anyone can send a text. Anyone can send an email. Since this affair is going no where, since he decided to stay with his wife and family, why are you saying - by your actions - that that is good enough for you? Why would you love someone who doesn't love you the same way? Why would you spend your days & nights hung up on some guy who is at home with his wife? And says he isn't leaving her! Why waste your precious days/months/years on someone who isn't as into you as you are into him? Don't you want someone who isn't MARRiED and who can show you daily through actions that you rock his world?

[Hope Shimmers]

A person can think and analyze another person all day long, doesn't change facts or actions. This MM has put the poster in a box. For sex? Maybe. For love? Hardly. You don't disrespect someone you love. You don't willingly hurt someone you love. You don't go from full on affair to "light" with someone you love. Love makes you want to BE with the person, not send a silly text. LOVE makes you want the best for someone, not the "light" version.

 

Maybe he keeps in contact so she doesn't go crazy and tell his wife? Maybe he knows a woman scorned is not the best thing. Maybe he is hoping SHE will get sick of being treated so casually that SHE will end the affair.

 

But she continue to hang on, asking for more ILY, more words. Words he has told her he is NOT going to say. Doesn't matter if he feels them...he isn't saying them and that is what the poster needs to come to terms with.

 

Note that isn't the advice she asked for. Here was her question in the original post. "Is his behaviour "normal"? Can you just stop saying ILY to soemone you have feelings for just out of respect to his W?"

 

I attempted to answer her question, whereas most everyone else told her what the MM was feeling and how she should live her life. NOT what she asked.

 

Does he love her? In my view - Doubtful.

 

You are entitled to your opinion but you don't know. Only he does - and she knows much better than any of us here.

 

Please don't let strangers on the internet make you believe that he has this deep soul crushing love for you. Please don't let strangers on the internet keep you hanging onto someone who will not be there for you.

 

Look back at the posts. I made it clear that I was offering my OPINION based on my experiences. Whereas others made blunt statements "He doesn't love you". How can anyone know that?

 

Please don't let strangers on the internet tell you he loves you, when they have no idea as they aren't him.

 

EXACTLY!!!! And again, read my posts - I made it clear, over and over, that it was MY OPINION. That's all ANYONE can offer here. Opinions and thoughts.

 

Not one single person on this thread has ever stated that a MM can't love their AP. Not sure where you got that from.

 

Not sure where I got what from? I never said that anyone said that. What I said was that people should not make statements that come off as factual when it is their opinion only.

 

Love doesn't equal sending a text or an email. Love is an action.

 

You are not seeing the actions. You are only concerned about the "action" of leaving the marriage, something he never said he would do. I'm not talking about leaving his wife and family, but I am talking about the things he DID in the past that no one interested in "just sex" would likely do.

 

Anyone can say ILY and not mean it. Anyone can send a text. Anyone can send an email. Since this affair is going no where, since he decided to stay with his wife and family, why are you saying - by your actions - that that is good enough for you? Why would you love someone who doesn't love you the same way?

 

Again, way beyond the scope of the original thread questions. Why do you think you should offer advice to people how to run their lives when it wasn't asked for?

 

Why would you spend your days & nights hung up on some guy who is at home with his wife? And says he isn't leaving her! Why waste your precious days/months/years on someone who isn't as into you as you are into him? Don't you want someone who isn't MARRiED and who can show you daily through actions that you rock his world?

 

Ditto what I said before. Why not answer the question that the poster asked instead of always trying to change people's lives the way you want them to live?

[Mount]

To me the reality is, even just for OWs there have different kinds of:

 

1) OWs just want to feel being loved, and they will offer MMs anything, including sex, their love expression to MMs, their time and attention almost everything. But MMs hardly return anything, even a I LOVE YOU wording expression, text, nothing...

 

2) Another type of OWs want MMs' love but more, they want MMs as a legitimate partner hence MMs are requested to make decision leaving marriage for OWs or not. Meantime OWs are getting lots of love from MMs, daily expression from MM, constant attention, time, secret vacation, expensive gift, future planning (fake or not). Meantime OWs don't even give MMs and they feel they do not need to please MMs.

[Popsicle]

When someone wants to keep both a marriage and a secret affair, questions like does he love his wife, does he love the OW, are not so simple. Certainly if it's the kind of love most of us seek in a committed romantic R, where we expect our loving partner to be sensitive to our needs, to want to see us happy, and to quickly stop behavior that hurts us because they hurt to see us hurt, then it clearly isn't that kind of love for either the wife or the OW. The MM may not even be capable of that kind of love, as not everyone is.

 

In any case, the way you describe MM's current behavior, that doesn't sound like loving behavior to me, but it does sound like he is attached, maybe even addicted. Whether he is only attached to the sex, I don't know. He may also be attached to some emotional need you satisfy in him. After d-day he probably needs to feel better about himself and advising you or helping you could be satisfying that to some extent. What I don't see is him being tuned into your needs and desires to the extent that one would expect for a man in love.

 

You really do deserve more than this. And I'm sure if you end things with MM, stick to NC, you are much more likely to have the kind of love you deserve in your life one day than if you continue to put up with MM and his behavior.

 

Yes, this and what Hope Simmer's said above. Keep in mind that the posts on this forum come mostly from BS's.

 

Feelings don't go away like that, but he is trying to tell you and himself that. He wouldn't still be talking to you and seeing you as well. He obviously can't stay away from you, but his denial of all this should be a big concern of yours. It is a sign that he is not all in (just as he isn't all in with his W) and you deserve someone who is all in.

[enya46]

I had a bad day today. Since yesterday no news from him.

I really think that he does not have those feelings for me anymore, or he is trying to show me he doesn't care, so I move on.

 

He never pressured me to be in this "post D-day light A version" situation. It was both of us. We never lost contact and sometimes it was me and others it was him who initiated text.

 

He is not trying to convince me to stay in this situation. After the last two days and his last texts, I am starting to have the feeling that he wants to end it.

 

I am sure he is doing it because I suddenly got all emotional and started asking these questions. It's not in his plans to have to deal again with the intensity we had before because he (his words) is now "being very controlled at home".

 

The fact that I am now going to live in the same country, makes it even more difficult for him probably, because it will mean that I will want us to meet more often, something that he will have to plan and lie at home about.

 

Anyway, you are all right, when you say that he is not giving me what I need.

 

I do not need a man who is always, always there because I am scared of routine, but I think I am not capable of having a relationship which excludes any kind of passion AND love.

 

He is not giving me love. So I need to forget about was he used to make me feel and realise how he makes me feel today: sad.

 

It's time to let him go, but how? How do I start?

[Hope Shimmers]

I had a bad day today. Since yesterday no news from him.

I really think that he does not have those feelings for me anymore, or he is trying to show me he doesn't care, so I move on.

 

He never pressured me to be in this "post D-day light A version" situation. It was both of us. We never lost contact and sometimes it was me and others it was him who initiated text.

 

He is not trying to convince me to stay in this situation. After the last two days and his last texts, I am starting to have the feeling that he wants to end it.

 

I am sure he is doing it because I suddenly got all emotional and started asking these questions. It's not in his plans to have to deal again with the intensity we had before because he (his words) is now "being very controlled at home".

 

The fact that I am now going to live in the same country, makes it even more difficult for him probably, because it will mean that I will want us to meet more often, something that he will have to plan and lie at home about.

 

Anyway, you are all right, when you say that he is not giving me what I need.

 

I do not need a man who is always, always there because I am scared of routine, but I think I am not capable of having a relationship which excludes any kind of passion AND love.

 

He is not giving me love. So I need to forget about was he used to make me feel and realise how he makes me feel today: sad.

 

It's time to let him go, but how? How do I start?

 

Hats off to you for recognizing that he's not giving you what you need.

 

It's really tough but the only way is to totally disconnect from him. It hurts for awhile but then you are FREE and you don't have the hurt or desire for him anymore.

 

The hardest part (for me, at least) was sticking to it because as soon as he figures out you aren't still there pining away for him, he has second thoughts and wants you to still be there. You have to decide to do it and then not waver from it.

[Hope Shimmers]

Yes, this and what Hope Simmer's said above. Keep in mind that the posts on this forum come mostly from BS's.

 

Feelings don't go away like that, but he is trying to tell you and himself that. He wouldn't still be talking to you and seeing you as well. He obviously can't stay away from you, but his denial of all this should be a big concern of yours. It is a sign that he is not all in (just as he isn't all in with his W) and you deserve someone who is all in.

 

Great post...

[enya46]

I would like to comment on each single post, but right now I am crying like a 15 year old.

 

It is so intense and strange to be able to open up like this in a forum and to have so many people trying to provide support, opinion, experiences....in real time, even though miles away.

 

Thank you so much...