D-Day plus 6 weeks. Wife betrayal, long story... .

[fellini]

i haven't read any Esther Perel. but i wouldn't automatically buy something just because its comes from an expert. i would agree that most people who cheat are lifelong monogamists because who crossed a line. my ex never cheated on anyone before me (or so she says, but I did believe that). but for this post, we are dealing with a serial cheater. Although there are only 2 affairs we know about, they were both more than 1 night stands. this guys wife is a serial cheater.

 

i think this Ether Perel really confuses things.... obviously, the people who cheat are not desperate to leave their BS. If they were, then they would just leave. But - just because they are not looking to leave DOES NOT mean that they are happy and fulfilled! People stay with their partner for the children, for the finances, because of the what there family/friends/community would say, because they don't want to hurt their BS. people cheat because they don't feel an emotional connection with their BS or because they don't feel appreciated or pretty or given enough attention.

 

alternatively, they might cheat because they just don't value their partner or fancy them in a sexual way anymore. I think this is more the case in this post. but apart from people with mental problems, i can't imagine people cheating on a partner who is everything they dreamed of.... it just doesn't make sense.

 

LOL. Im opinion you shouldn't be critiquing someone you haven't even read.

This whole "anti-experts" doesn't wash with me either. No one said I "bought" into Perel, my point was to say that it doesn't make sense to me that a WS will throw someone under the bus to save a marriage if the marriage were not worth saving and that was why they stepped out to begin with. It seems to me this is the BS perspective. And that just won't help much.

 

First of all, it's not true that people would "just leave" their marriages, many people cheat because they don't have the guts to leave a marriage, dead or not, for another lover or not. There is a social stigma attached to staying married the you seem to discredit. And I think you underestimate it's value on the decision to cheat.

 

Some people simply do not leave their marriage until they are sure they HAVE a proper replacement lined up ("a better cow" in terms of the classic film about why men move from woman to younger woman to even younger woman). Some just refuse to ever want to be alone (either physically - they need to be in a space with someone, or emotionally, they need to "be in love with someone")

 

Not sure either why anyone would only take the musings of people here in LS over what you think are confused "experts", given that the majority of people here, and in this thread a angry BS's: many of whom clearly have a DEAL BREAKER mentality about affairs, experienced one, DUMPED their WS, and now are in here singing the song of how impossible reconciliation is for a BS. Based on what? Personal experience? How many affairs should someone in LS have before they really are an expert in handing out not only advice, but talking with such confidence about what is going on in the head of a WS of an anonymous poster when they themselves didn't even care to figure out what was going on in the head of their OWN WS?

 

Why so fast to dismiss expert advice? Especially advice you haven't read?

 

Why shouldn't someone who works in this field, who is eager to understand what motivates infidelity at all levels, and what changes in marriages, be automatically dismissed for being an "expert" over what are clearly armchair critics?

Edited August 18, 2014 by fellini

[oldshirt]

- You and are trying to make this neat and tidy and clean where no-one suffers any repercussions. Sorry but this is a messy situation where people are up to their eyeballs in their own filth. There are going to be repercussions and fallout from this. There's no reason to inflict any unnecessary suffering on anyone but there are some things that just simply have to be done to end this.

 

- these friends of friends that you are so afraid of finding out and impacting your children have problems of their own and have their own skeletons in their own closets. They really couldn't give a crap less about some gal banging the boss at the office. That ***** happens every day at every office in America. This is world-shattering to You but it's just another day at the office to them.

 

- You need to disclose this to his wife. IMHO I think you should do it yourself on your terms. The reason your wife wants to go is so she can gauge the wife's reaction to determine where she stands with the OM. She also wants to do her own brand of damage control and hope she can smooth things over with her like she has with you.

 

- She also wants to be there so that you and the wife don't form your own information gathering/sharing network with each other. She wants to interfer with you and the wife working together and keeping her from sharing her notes with you.

 

-When you approach other wife, take documentation and evidence with you as she may be in denial as well.

 

- but also be prepared to find out a whole lot more than you are prepared for. She may actually know that he is a womanizer and your wife is just one of many.

 

-the other wife may even be in collusion with the affair to certain degree. She may have known about this all along and was going along with it to maintain her gravy train.

 

- She may even counter attack you and respond with hostility.

 

- You also need to report this to his own HR dept and board of directors etc. He is not going to get fired and no-one is going to pursue any harassment charges etc but he will have to consult his legal advisors and marketing/PR People to smooth this over. Every company is going to have policies against sex in the work place and he will have to take time and energy out of his day to deal with his legal folks and HR people on how to make this go away.

 

- He took something from you and needs to be held accountable and needs to pay a price. He will not be destroyed or ruined by this but maybe he can lose some sleep and pay a few extra dollars in overtime for his lawyer and HR staff.

 

- once this comes out at work, more women are going to come forward. This was not a one time thing for him either. He is also a serial cheater. That is how they found each other. They each set off the others Cheater-Detector-System when they met.

[oldshirt]

On another note, I am also in camp recommending not to rush in to any binding decisions at this time.

 

This has been a major disruption in your life and a big shock. You are also having a lot of smoke and mirrors being masterfully thrown in your path (which leads me to believe this is not her second video, but that's another topic) so you don't even know the whole reality of the situation yet. It will take more time to peel back all the layers and know where things really stand and know what your options really are.

 

It may take months before the dust and smoke have cleared enough to make a definitive and informed decision.

 

Your feelings, motivations and objectives will change in time too. Today you are still in love with her and respect and admire her. In a few months as more info comes to light and the fog and smokescreens clear, you probably won't.

 

It's fair and even very wise to be honest with her to let her know the jury is still out and that only time will tell if you will try to reconcile or will divorce.

 

It's fair to have her stay with her folks or find a place to give you time and space to soul-search and gather info.

 

That will also be a good way to put surveillance on her and see if she and OM continue contact.

 

She wants you to commit to reconciliation so she doesn't lose her lifestyle. I urge you to keep your options open and thoroughly investigate the situation and weigh the pros and cons of all options.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

You are also having a lot of smoke and mirrors being masterfully thrown in your path (which leads me to believe this is not her second rodeo, but that's another topic)

 

 

 

 

I want to discuss this a little more. As you mentioned in one of your other posts, she is not reacting like a normal WS after a LTA. She is acting "perfectly."

 

Textbook perfectly in fact........as in she has read the book. She has either devoted months to researching affair recovery or she has been mentored in exactly what to say and how to react when the sht hits the fan.

 

I think she/they knew eventually they'd get busted and had a preplan in place.

 

This is not a naive new girl in the office that blindly fell prey to the boss' charms. This is a methodical strategist that is two steps ahead of everyone.

 

This is not her second rodeo.

 

People on her have mentioned burner phones. The Force is telling me she has had "Burner Jobs."

 

Most people do not leave their jobs with such speed and ease. Especially when divorce and needing to support themselves may be on the horizon. Something deeper and more methodical and devious is taking place here.

 

Any chance she may have encountered OM BEFORE taking the job? Ashley Madison or something similar perhaps???

 

She has had two known long term affairs and she is still in the home, still sleeping with a devoted husband who is in love with her and trying his darnedest to protect her and justify staying with her. She is out of a job and still being supported by the man she has been betraying for multiple YEARS with different men.

 

I don't think that is all by chance and circumstance. I think there is some kind of plan and method in place here.

 

I reccommend going underground and going silent yourself. Hire a PI that specialises in fraud. Gather up all computers, phones and any other communication devices as well as bank records, phone records etc and take them to the PI for electronic forensic analysis.

 

And hire a good lawyer and forensic account.

 

There's more here than meets the eye.

[James-London]

well, based on what you said about what Perel writes, I disagree with her. My disagreement with Perel was based upon your representation of her. I may one day read Perel and find that you have misrepresented what she says, and I actually agree with her... i would have thought that was pretty obvious.

 

your 2nd para really repeats what I said in my my post. i also talk of people not leaving due to social stigma etc. you're not really disagreeing with me here. and you are right - i'm just a guy who is musing on LS. I don't claim to any special expertise or better insights than anyone else.

 

If i understood Perel correctly, people cheat because of some issue/unhappiness in themselves, and not their partner. while unhappiness with oneself may be a factor, it is really not as significant as one's unhappiness with the person they are cheating on. unless they are mentally ill, i just can't imagine someone cheating on a person who is everything they ever wanted in a partner. just doesn't make sense to me.

 

that is why i reject what Perel says (according to your representation).

 

LOL. Im opinion you shouldn't be critiquing someone you haven't even read.

This whole "anti-experts" doesn't wash with me either. No one said I "bought" into Perel, my point was to say that it doesn't make sense to me that a WS will throw someone under the bus to save a marriage if the marriage were not worth saving and that was why they stepped out to begin with. It seems to me this is the BS perspective. And that just won't help much.

 

First of all, it's not true that people would "just leave" their marriages, many people cheat because they don't have the guts to leave a marriage, dead or not, for another lover or not. There is a social stigma attached to staying married the you seem to discredit. And I think you underestimate it's value on the decision to cheat.

 

Some people simply do not leave their marriage until they are sure they HAVE a proper replacement lined up ("a better cow" in terms of the classic film about why men move from woman to younger woman to even younger woman). Some just refuse to ever want to be alone (either physically - they need to be in a space with someone, or emotionally, they need to "be in love with someone")

 

Not sure either why anyone would only take the musings of people here in LS over what you think are confused "experts", given that the majority of people here, and in this thread a angry BS's: many of whom clearly have a DEAL BREAKER mentality about affairs, experienced one, DUMPED their WS, and now are in here singing the song of how impossible reconciliation is for a BS. Based on what? Personal experience? How many affairs should someone in LS have before they really are an expert in handing out not only advice, but talking with such confidence about what is going on in the head of a WS of an anonymous poster when they themselves didn't even care to figure out what was going on in the head of their OWN WS?

 

Why so fast to dismiss expert advice? Especially advice you haven't read?

 

Why shouldn't someone who works in this field, who is eager to understand what motivates infidelity at all levels, and what changes in marriages, be automatically dismissed for being an "expert" over what are clearly armchair critics?

[2sunny]

You are gambling and want us to tell you that you hold the winning hand.

 

No one can do that - especially since you lost in the last round.

 

We know from experience that you lost the last hand when you forgave the first time yet she did it again.

 

I still think she's not sorry she did it she just sorry she got caught.

 

She really hasn't been inconvenienced much considering what she's done (twice).

 

Take away all her comforts and she may think twice next time.

[jm2013]

I just read through your story and am sorry you're going through this. I have read through the various recommendations but you're here for a reason. You love your wife, she messed up big time, and you're looking to see if there's a way to correct what just went upside down. It is obvious your wife has some sort of emotional problem that needs to be dealt with in counseling. I'm sure you've already got the standard recommendations to divorce etc.

 

Also, I'd take your lawyers advice. Stay in the house and don't make a rash decision. When I caught my wife in an affair I immediately left and told her I wanted a divorce. To further this I had gotten a lawyer on retainer who also sent a letter in the mail saying he'll be representing me yada yada yada. I think I made my point clear. I guess what I'm trying to say is you need to show your wife you mean business. If you're considering a reconciliation I think you need to bring her to the brink of divorce to show her and make her feel what life would be like without you and the security provided.

 

I know everybody's situation is different. You send both of your kids to catholic school right? I'm assuming you and your wife believe there's a God. If I'm correct, I'd suggest working with your local church on how to deal with these types of issues and move past them. Our church has helped my marriage immensely and each Wednesday/Sunday is a constant reminded to always strive to do good and live a more Godly life.

 

My wife and I have also found a faith based counselor. He has made sense of a lot of things and given pathways and understand of what we both need to have a happy and fulfilling marriage moving forward. He's been an asset to our recovery and is way better than the person we initially saw in the beginning. I'm not sure if something like that would be advantageous to your marriage if you do make plans on reconciling your marriage.

 

In the mean time you need to stay healthy. I'm not sure if you workout or not but I think it would help you destress. I moved from booze to working out and "trying" to eat better. This at least helped me significantly. As far as triggering and mental movies these will be there for a long time. I wish I could give you great advice to stop these but I'm afraid the only thing that does help at least with me is TIME. It does seem like the more time that does pass the less triggering about things.

 

The other night I was looking at stuff I bought from Amazon back in 2012 and had a trigger. Looking at some of our purchases during the time of her affair brought me back to how we were at the time and the things we did etc. I kind of started to lash out "How could you", "why would you" then just stopped. There's no logical answer to that behavior. You'll just get on the hamster wheel and keep spinning.

 

Also, I know you said she was getting STD tested. I'm not sure if she did this or not. But I'd get that checked sooner than later just to be on the safe side. Good luck to you. And again, I'm sorry you're going through this right now.

[fellini]

well, based on what you said about what Perel writes, I disagree with her. My disagreement with Perel was based upon your representation of her. I may one day read Perel and find that you have misrepresented what she says, and I actually agree with her... i would have thought that was pretty obvious.

 

your 2nd para really repeats what I said in my my post. i also talk of people not leaving due to social stigma etc. you're not really disagreeing with me here. and you are right - i'm just a guy who is musing on LS. I don't claim to any special expertise or better insights than anyone else.

 

If i understood Perel correctly, people cheat because of some issue/unhappiness in themselves, and not their partner. while unhappiness with oneself may be a factor, it is really not as significant as one's unhappiness with the person they are cheating on. unless they are mentally ill, i just can't imagine someone cheating on a person who is everything they ever wanted in a partner. just doesn't make sense to me.

 

that is why i reject what Perel says (according to your representation).

 

If you read her you will understand that she is not saying "this is what all infidelity is about". My quote deals with the commonly mistake of thinking, and saying, that people in good marriages simply don't cheat.

 

But I still think you are not hearing something subtle in my point.

 

You continue to take the long uninterested BS view of what is actually going on with the WS. The WS did ONCE believe that the BS was the "love of my life." In most cases, an unsustainable situation. Because now that word "love" needs to be properly filled with "what do I mean when I say love", and what most WS's find is that there are limits. And they want more. Another is that they never stopped loving their spouses as THEY CURRENTLY SEE THEM.

 

We all know that a each spouse's perception of each other is never static and unchanging. What can very easily happen to a spouse in any relationship is an update of the conditions in which they would not choose cheating as an option: an option they never believed they had.

 

Because we know that very good marriages suffer infidelity, and we do not automatically assume that the WS is a moron, or mentally ill, we need a better understanding - from the perspective of the WS - as to why they cheat.

 

The marriage is THE SAME MARRIAGE FOR BOTH - more often than NOT we find that nothing SPECIAL HAPPENED to incite the infidelity (except perhaps, and I think this is more important than anything, and is hardly ever spoken about here in LS) - AN OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF. This opportunity changes the way (how convient!) the soon to be WS sees the marriage in a new light. Through a new set of options. The option to cheat.

 

I really really doubt, and have not yet read that a couple were in a pretty good to excellent marriage and then suddenly, out of no where one of them decides to think like a cheat, and goes out LOOKING for available people to cheat with.

 

What is more likely, is that the WS begins to see him/herself DIFFERENTLY in the marriage, if and when an opportunity presents itself to be acted upon - a flirt, a FB message, discovering Ashley Madison, a co-worker suddenly takes on new meaning.

 

I do not see why anyone needs to think that the WS has to think its anything to do with her EXISTING partner. It is nothing more than being about the NEW POSSIBILITY and how that throws a new light on existing relations.

 

I would not be the least bit surprised that there are a lot more people who would have affairs but simply have not had the opportunity, and still at this point, do not know that what they were feeling, what they are yearning for, is an option to cheat.

 

The cliche of a housewife who simply continues on, until, one day, in the park... she meets a stay at home husband...

Edited August 18, 2014 by fellini

[Buckeye2]

The situation with the man at work 7 years into your marriage sounds exactly like this one. Are you sure they didn’t have sex?

 

7 years into marriage:

 

Within a month I viewed what happened as a “close call” that was totally out of character with the woman I loved and reasoned nothing else happened as simply my wife had no time for anything worse, she literally was never alone without our child except at work.

 

Current:

 

The affair was nearly all physical, they met in only 3 locations… In general they most often met in his office at the end of a workday and by nature those were short… It was straight to sex then a bit of talking and he would leave.

 

Couldn’t she have met the first man in his office or parking lot for a quicky? You may have had an open marriage for years and didn’t know it.

 

I think that your wife loves you and her family. The OM was just for sex which was why she was able to throw him under the bus with such vigor to save the marriage she values.

 

I think this might be what’s going on:

 

Sigmund Freud first identified the Madonna–wh0re complex. This psychological complex develops in men who see women as either a saintly Madonna or a debased prostitute. Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love."

 

A variation of this is a woman who wants her life partner to see her as respectable. By having an affair she is already a bad girl by definition. That’s the way the OM sees her and that is the way she sees herself in the affair environment.

 

She is free to be wild and it feels right in that environment. She can’t let the bad girl out with the man who accompanies her and her kids to church or school functions.

 

The following thread by Mattzeo is a classic example of this. Just read the posts by the OP (mattzeo).

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/cheating-flirting-jealousy/349853-my-wife-had-long-term-affair

Edited August 18, 2014 by Buckeye2

[HermioneG]

well, based on what you said about what Perel writes, I disagree with her. My disagreement with Perel was based upon your representation of her. I may one day read Perel and find that you have misrepresented what she says, and I actually agree with her... i would have thought that was pretty obvious.

 

your 2nd para really repeats what I said in my my post. i also talk of people not leaving due to social stigma etc. you're not really disagreeing with me here. and you are right - i'm just a guy who is musing on LS. I don't claim to any special expertise or better insights than anyone else.

 

If i understood Perel correctly, people cheat because of some issue/unhappiness in themselves, and not their partner. while unhappiness with oneself may be a factor, it is really not as significant as one's unhappiness with the person they are cheating on. unless they are mentally ill, i just can't imagine someone cheating on a person who is everything they ever wanted in a partner. just doesn't make sense to me.

 

that is why i reject what Perel says (according to your representation).

 

It is not just Perel who says that. It's Frank Pittman. Shirley Glass. Peggy Vaughan. Helen Fisher. Gottman.

 

Infidelity is usually a personal problem, not a marital one.

 

Information is power. People do cheat because of what is wrong with their insides, not their spouse.

 

In fact- many people cheat because they are being overbenefitted in their marriage. Meaning they are being given more than they give.

 

It's a mess, but a mess that isn't the betrayed's fault. Healthy people understand that happiness is an inside job. Truly.

[Buckeye2]

Post-nups exist in my state and my wife would be happy to do one but at the same time per several lawyers in my state they are nearly 100% unenforceable for a variety of reasons and not worth the paper they are written on.

 

You obviously love your wife and your family. In her own way I think your wife loves you too.

 

After what she’s done the only way I could R with her is to divorce her first. I know it sounds strange but hear me out.

 

You would still be married in the eyes of God but not in the eyes of the government. Much better than a Post-nup. You can decide who you tell about the divorce.

 

Many BS tell their WS that if they cheat one more time it’s over. This way that threat has some teeth because being divorced you could easily walk away.

 

What will make R easier is that she will have paid a price. One of the problems with R is that it sometime appears that the WS hasn’t suffered at all. Let’s say there is a family function where things are going well. The BS looks at their happy WS and suddenly becomes resentful.

 

They are still married doing what they would be doing if the WS hadn’t strayed. At that moment it appears that the WS has paid no price whatsoever. The BS triggers and lashes out at the WS. Now they are both miserable and the good time they were having is destroyed.

 

In my opinion this situation could be better dealt with by getting a divorce and working on your relationship instead of your marriage. Then when the BS looks at the happy WS they know that a price was paid.

 

It would be like looking at someone who was an army sergeant who was busted to corporal because they messed up.

 

Marriage just like a top secret clearance is a privilege, not a right. You have to earn top secret clearance in the government. They trust you not to tell secrets. If you tell secrets you lose your clearance and become an average citizen.

 

When you get married one of the main things you promise is to not have sex with someone other than your spouse. If you break this trust you should lose your marriage certification.

 

There is no stigma today whatsoever for unmarried people to live together and have kids. What I will never understand is why you have to be married to work on your relationship and R.

 

Never married people live together and work on their relationship until they feel that have reached the marriage level. Divorce and living together is just the reverse because you discovered the relationship wasn’t at the marriage level.

 

If things work out you can get re-married someday.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Buckeye2

[fellini]

Interesting ideas, but by the end of your post you are essentially saying being married is just a piece of paper, so when OP divorces for what you thimk is some kind of massive wake up call - 5 lines later you argue its no big deal.

 

Seems to me the WS will come to the same understanding: all i lost is a piece of paper - and the OP is right back where he started - looking for an edge.

 

I think finding the edge on a wayward is wasting ones time trying to tame a spouse as if she were a stray horse.

 

The only way any marriage is going to work is if both parties are in it for the same reasons and on the same level playing field.

 

But there are no fast tracks to this end - and they have to do it together

 

You obviously love your wife and your family. In her own way I think your wife loves you too.

 

After what she’s done the only way I could R with her is to divorce her first. I know it sounds strange but hear me out.

 

You would still be married in the eyes of God but not in the eyes of the government. Much better than a Post-nup. You can decide who you tell about the divorce.

 

Many BS tell their WS that if they cheat one more time it’s over. This way that threat has some teeth because being divorced you could easily walk away.

 

What will make R easier is that she will have paid a price. One of the problems with R is that it sometime appears that the WS hasn’t suffered at all. Let’s say there is a family function where things are going well. The BS looks at their happy WS and suddenly becomes resentful.

 

They are still married doing what they would be doing if the WS hadn’t strayed. At that moment it appears that the WS has paid no price whatsoever. The BS triggers and lashes out at the WS. Now they are both miserable and the good time they were having is destroyed.

 

In my opinion this situation could be better dealt with by getting a divorce and working on your relationship instead of your marriage. Then when the BS looks at the happy WS they know that a price was paid.

 

It would be like looking at someone who was an army sergeant who was busted to corporal because they messed up.

 

Marriage just like a top secret clearance is a privilege, not a right. You have to earn top secret clearance in the government. They trust you not to tell secrets. If you tell secrets you lose your clearance and become an average citizen.

 

When you get married one of the main things you promise is to not have sex with someone other than your spouse. If you break this trust you should lose your marriage certification.

 

There is no stigma today whatsoever for unmarried people to live together and have kids. What I will never understand is why you have to be married to work on your relationship and R.

 

Never married people live together and work on their relationship until they feel that have reached the marriage level. Divorce and living together is just the reverse because you discovered the relationship wasn’t at the marriage level.

 

If things work out you can get re-married someday.

Edited August 18, 2014 by fellini

[Buckeye2]

Seems to me the WS will come to the same understanding: all i lost is a piece of paper - and the OP is right back where he started - looking for an edge.

 

Holy crap. Have you ever heard of alimony?

 

Being faced with the reality of divorce is an eye opener. When the WS is contrite and “willing to do anything” is the best time to get good terms.

 

The OP said that a post-nup is “just a piece of paper” in his state. I assure you a final divorce decree isn’t.

[James-London]

I still don't agree with fellini or hermioneG.

 

a person who is in a completely happy and fulfilled romantic relationship is really not likely to cheat. i guess it can happen, but its not likely. People in this state spend all their time gushing about their partner to everyone they meet. People who flirt with someone who feels committed to their partner gets a very cold shoulder.

 

Fellini speaks of lack of opportunity to cheat. obviously, people with no opportunity to cheat, don't cheat. That is a truism. But from the people who DO HAVE an opportunity, what is the difference between those who do cheat and those that don't?

 

Your argument would be that there is something wrong with them internally. It just sounds like a soundbite to me. There is no detail about what needs to be wrong with them internally for them to cheat... And there is no reasons are provided as to why it should be something internal rather than in the relationship either.

 

Fellini seems to have us believe that every loving and committed relationship is a ticking time-bomb where either partner would run off with whoever gave them an opportunity. In my experience, people have opportunities to cheat all the time. Most people I know have active social lives and will be flirted with at a party at least twice per month. Opportunities are everywhere. people who are happy with their partner are just not noticing those opportunities. And when they do notice them, they get brushed off or ignored.

 

I don't know what this internal state is that causes someone to cheat. But if they are unhappy with themselves, its more likely that they are in an unhappy relationship also. In addition, if they are unhappy with themselves then it is less likely that opportunities will arrive....

 

in summary - being unhappy with yourself can play a role. but its mostly a lack of satisfaction with the partner.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I still don't agree with fellini or hermioneG.

 

a person who is in a completely happy and fulfilled romantic relationship is really not likely to cheat. i guess it can happen, but its not likely. People in this state spend all their time gushing about their partner to everyone they meet. People who flirt with someone who feels committed to their partner gets a very cold shoulder.

 

Fellini speaks of lack of opportunity to cheat. obviously, people with no opportunity to cheat, don't cheat. That is a truism. But from the people who DO HAVE an opportunity, what is the difference between those who do cheat and those that don't?

 

Your argument would be that there is something wrong with them internally. It just sounds like a soundbite to me. There is no detail about what needs to be wrong with them internally for them to cheat... And there is no reasons are provided as to why it should be something internal rather than in the relationship either.

 

Fellini seems to have us believe that every loving and committed relationship is a ticking time-bomb where either partner would run off with whoever gave them an opportunity. In my experience, people have opportunities to cheat all the time. Most people I know have active social lives and will be flirted with at a party at least twice per month. Opportunities are everywhere. people who are happy with their partner are just not noticing those opportunities. And when they do notice them, they get brushed off or ignored.

 

I don't know what this internal state is that causes someone to cheat. But if they are unhappy with themselves, its more likely that they are in an unhappy relationship also. In addition, if they are unhappy with themselves then it is less likely that opportunities will arrive....

 

in summary - being unhappy with yourself can play a role. but its mostly a lack of satisfaction with the partner.

 

Then why pray tell doesn't EVERY BS then go on to cheat on their WS?

 

Because they are most definitely not happy/satisfied with their WS!!

 

Many affairs are about boundary crossing. Not recognizing the road/path one is on. Often a WS has to rewrite history to give themselves (internal) permission to continue down that path and keep a positive view of THEMSELVES.

 

The most harmful lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

[DKT3]

Alwaysgrowing I believe is spot on. I know in my case she convinced herself that our marriage wasn't as important as it had been. That is when I didn't know about the affair. Once the wayward starts to become involved with someone else there has to be a reason why. "Well if I was getting this then I wouldn't be attracted to this other person"

 

The negative are then what the wayward places all their focus, once you start down that path its hard to tell what's real and what isn't. Sometimes it takes a bold move to snap them out. Once she was served then me and our marriage become the most important thing to her.

 

Was she unhappy in our marriage? She says she was upset and angry but not unhappy. If she was unhappy she wouldn't have wanted to spend more time with me, which is what lead to the problems. That's what she says NOW. During the affair I'm pretty sure she was unhappy with me and the marriage. The question is which is real?

 

Its the whole chicken or egg thing. Was being unhappy what opened the wayward up to the affair, or was being attracted to someone outside the marriage what created the need to justify it by claiming to be unhappy in the marriage. In our case maybe the first. In many other cases here, were the wayward says "I didn't know I was unhappy until I was with the AP" those are clearly the second. Sadly, they confuse it with the first.

 

OP, I honesty believe your wife is in neither situation. I believe she is the rare female serial cheater. I have a hard time thinking she is this good at "being willing" to do the right things after you caught her. I just can't shake the feeling that there are many other men over the years. As such this is going to be a near impossible battle to win, if winning means staying married.

[2sunny]

How are you doing today original poster?

[jnel921]

So sorry you are going through this.

 

The first mistake was not fixing things when she was caught the first time with the flirty emails. This is how it starts. Its attention.

 

Having a yearlong affair is living a lie within your M. Its only because you caught her that she is now remorseful. Its a shame, had you not, then she'd probably be still having him over in your marital bed.

 

Throwing everything out and burning her underwear doesn't change what has happened.

 

Really think about who you are dealing with. The OM wont leave his family either. Its very easy for them to play this game. His wife if she is smart will leave. But you never know.

 

Length of time of A's are a deal breaker with me. I couldn't imagine spending a year being lied to or taken as a fool.

 

i hope you get counseling and make the right choices. Divorces are messy. I divorced my first cheating H who had a LTA. I struggled in the beginning, but it was so worth it in the end. He would have repeated the pattern had I stayed. I wasn't about to put up with that or risk STD;s because he couldn't keep it in his pants.

 

Please consider her intention while she did this. She was not thinking of you or your family.

 

Good Luck

[HermioneG]

Then why pray tell doesn't EVERY BS then go on to cheat on their WS?

 

Because they are most definitely not happy/satisfied with their WS!!

 

Many affairs are about boundary crossing. Not recognizing the road/path one is on. Often a WS has to rewrite history to give themselves (internal) permission to continue down that path and keep a positive view of THEMSELVES.

 

The most harmful lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

 

Precisely. Well said.

[2sunny]

EVERY BS goes on to cheat on their WS?

 

No!!! I didn't!

 

Please don't use such broad brush strokes.

[Timmos]

. . . what is the difference between those who do cheat and those that don't?

 

Honor and Character?

[2sunny]

Honor and Character?

 

And integrity and self respect?

[Stellar Wench]

Your marriage can't be saved unless your wife agrees to see a psychiatrist. Some here can call it a character flaw, and maybe it is, but sooner or later, your wife will cheat again unless she fixes it. No faith-based marriage counsellor is going to help with that.

 

And of course your wife can't get enough of you sexually now. She realizes that she might lose you.

 

No marriage is perfect. But not all people in imperfect marriages cheat. Only broken people cheat. Others divorce or work on their marriages. Your wife is broken, and as long as she stays broken, you can give her the moon and she will eventually cheat.

 

You're in for a long haul if you wish to stay married. Best of luck.

[aliveagain]

I can't imagine how she could ever make you feel safe again, your a pilot, you fly to distant places that require you to stay overnight. What could she possibly do to convince you of her fidelity, swear a vow, that didn't last long the last two times. Nothing you can do will stop her from cheating if she decides she wants strange di*k. Allow me to restate my previous post, your best predictor of your future together is to look at your past, she has proven to you that she is more than willing to cheat if she thinks she can get away with it all the time claiming to love you. If this is how she shows you love, count yourself lucky she doesn't hate you. Sometimes you just have to walk away or accept your going to be sharing her with other men.

[fellini]

I still don't agree with fellini or hermioneG.

 

a person who is in a completely happy and fulfilled romantic relationship is really not likely to cheat. i guess it can happen, but its not likely. People in this state spend all their time gushing about their partner to everyone they meet. People who flirt with someone who feels committed to their partner gets a very cold shoulder.

 

Maybe JL, it's because you were cheated on by a GF and not married 15-20-30 years or even 2 to the same person. With kids. Absolutely you were cheated on, and absolutely you know something about infidelity. But this is not the same as what people are going through who were married, GREW WITH their marriage partner, and then one day discovered things were not what they seemed. Not by a long shot.

 

People in their honeymoon phase spend their time gushing, not those who are past it. Read up on the two types of love - and the two different chemicals generated by the brain - and you'll get it. This is why I talk about Perel, because her focus on infidelity is precisely, as she puts it: Mating in Captivity - reconciling the erotic with the domestic. I have had lots of GF's and in no moment was I having to resolve these issues as a BF to anyone. If you don't like Perel, try Helen Fisher's TEDTALK. It's an eye opener.

 

Fellini speaks of lack of opportunity to cheat. obviously, people with no opportunity to cheat, don't cheat. That is a truism. But from the people who DO HAVE an opportunity, what is the difference between those who do cheat and those that don't?

 

Their decision on how to act on those feelings. Some people do not act. Some people do not get someone in their face with whom to cheat. Some people just go out and drink more, some join a sports team, some take up jogging, some go back to some childhood hobby and begin again, some become porno addicts, some sit at home and bury themselves in movies with strong sexy female/male roles, some go on girls nights out and make fun of their husbands, some commit suicide, some walk away from their marriages.

 

Some go to IC to fix. Others read. Others live with it until the day they die.

 

Then again, some people have really ****ty marriages. They too have all the above choices.

 

Your argument would be that there is something wrong with them internally. It just sounds like a soundbite to me. There is no detail about what needs to be wrong with them internally for them to cheat... And there is no reasons are provided as to why it should be something internal rather than in the relationship either.

 

Fellini seems to have us believe that every loving and committed relationship is a ticking time-bomb where either partner would run off with whoever gave them an opportunity.

 

You obviously have not read much in the area of infidelity. Im not going to get into a statistics war with you, but here is one that indicates how naive you are being about what is going on out there:

 

68% of American men and women say "they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught

 

I suppose one needs to have been married long enough to know that the issue is not about marriage, it's about monogamy.

 

In my experience, people have opportunities to cheat all the time. Most people I know have active social lives and will be flirted with at a party at least twice per month. Opportunities are everywhere. people who are happy with their partner are just not noticing those opportunities. And when they do notice them, they get brushed off or ignored.

 

So you would agree, more or less, that the 68% is not an outrageous number?

 

 

I don't know what this internal state is that causes someone to cheat. But if they are unhappy with themselves, its more likely that they are in an unhappy relationship also. In addition, if they are unhappy with themselves then it is less likely that opportunities will arrive....

 

in summary - being unhappy with yourself can play a role. but its mostly a lack of satisfaction with the partner.

 

I never said it was unhappiness, I never said that WS are "broken inside" as the reason. There are lots of reasons people have affairs. LOTS. Last time I looked there were about 17 affair types. Add to that that there are combined reasons, and the number of reasons (from the WS POV) is very high.

 

In addition to there being lots of types of affairs, there are differences in what they mean for a marriage, and what prospects the marriage has for survival. ONS vs. Exit Affair for example.

 

I think you have a very "light" version of affairs. You put too much on the BS not meeting - or the WS having some legitimate claim that the marriage was not great.

 

My marriage was good. We had been through a time before our child was born when I would have said we were heading into a bad place. Neither of us cheated. 8 years after our child was born, and the marriage was pretty damned good, my S transferred almost all her emotions from our marriage onto a new man. She did this, as she finally puts it, for HERSELF. Once she did that, as others above have pointed out, she allowed herself in reflection to claim I wasn't "meeting her needs". Fair enough.

 

But a man cannot meet the needs of his spouse if she is no longer requiring them and getting them met in a studio apartment across town 3 days a week.

 

It's that simple, and it's that complicated. It has not necessarily anything to do with the current state of the marriage. It took my WS about 6 months to see that the marriage up to meeting her AP was not what she claimed it was on DDAY. She reinvented our marriage in order to fit her new concept: "I like how this new guy makes me feel, I deserve this. My marriage doesn't feel like this. It must not be a good marriage..." (Kind of like one day a woman goes into a shoe store and buys a really cool pair of shoes, but a month later is walking by the shoe store in those new-now-not-so-new-and-exciting shoes and sees another pair and immediately thinks she deserves those - and looking down, these old ragamuffins have got to go...)

 

No one blames the shoes, and no one blames the husband for playing the equal role of spouse in a lackluster (when compared to honeymoon) marriage. The issue is INSIDE the soon to be wayward that if s/he can have those chemicals back, then she will be happy again. What ALL marriages need, not just those who have suffered infidelity, what all marriages need is to reconcile, as Perel puts it, the EROTIC with the domesticated. The mystery has to be nurtured along with the safety and security of the longterm love. It is not that our husbands or wives are doing something wrong, it is that as a couple we have allowed the gushing to stop. And the issue is INSIDE too because the WS needs to get control over their desires to look outside the marriage for sexual fulfillment, and find ways rejuvenate them at home. And its INSIDE because the WS choose an option to solve a problem that CAN NEVER BE AN OPTION if s/he truly does not want to end the marriage. The option to cheat to get something filled inside.

 

Even in marriage, we do not own our wives. So Im dead against some of the advice here that suggests that men own their wives and their wives are to be controlled by men. If my WS cannot control herself, then we have no possible future after this crises. My WS has to fix her internal problem, NOT JUST TELL ME she is going to fix it. She has to RECOGNISE IT for what it is, and she has to do something ABOUT IT. I am happy to do what I can, but I cannot, after 18 months DDAY, continue to be her Father, her husband, her lover, her brother, her psychologist, her decisiion making matrix, and her conscience.

 

Even I wouldn't want to be married to me if that were the only solution.

Edited August 19, 2014 by fellini