D-Day plus 6 weeks. Wife betrayal, long story... .

[fellini]

I don't agree. I think Buckeye's hypothetical questions could be quite useful. Of course she can't actually go back in time, but you can gauge the answers from her behaviour and what she says now.

 

OP talks about how this happened because of some fundamental problem with his W. This may be true. But I think it will take a lot of evidence (over an extended period of time) to prove that this fundamental problem has been fixed. It is not simply fixed because the W is now feeling scared and remorseful for losing her H and breaking up her family.

 

That is why I said above about how important it is for the W to be able to explain all of this in a clear and consistent way, and then to be able to take actions that prove she has changed. (What those actions will be will depend upon what exactly the problem is. If she needed constant validation in the past, maybe she can do some hobbies or something where she needs to show a lot of self-confidence and independence....?). However, what is not at all clear is that anything has changed on a fundatmental level just because the s*it has hit the fan.

 

This is essentially the problem. A marriage cannot be rebuilt upon hypothetical questions that can only lead to hypothetical answers. Sure he can ask those questions, but her answers are only vague indicators at her attempt to win back her husband by guessing which answer is in his head.

 

A marriage is not a discourse, and in the end the WS needs to be viewed through her actions and her orientations to action, not to how well she performed on a multiple choice quiz.

 

The sooner those actions are seen to be independent of the BS in his recovery, the sooner the OP can better assess the chance for survival of the marriage. The chance of survival for the BS, to get over his pain, is something else altogether, and hopefully the WS can assist in this as well

Edited August 27, 2014 by fellini

[revelations]

Hi betrayedandhurting, I have read through your posts and I am very sorry this is happening to you. I am a truck driver, so like you I don't give up until the crash. I once blew out a steer tire doing 70 mph in ashfork, az. and was able to safely get the truck on to the shoulder. So yes never give up, however I did give up on my underwear after the mess I made in it *snicker*. Now we both know that we will never give up trying to fix things or prevent that crash. However let's look at this a bit differently shall we? Let's say that your not flying that plane, someone else is. You are the only passenger and as luck has it, you have a parachute. You may trust this pilot, however she starts doing wrong things. She takes the airplane up to about 45k feet then starts to do some barrel rolls with it. She then dumps the fuel and pitches the nose up to a stall. Then drops the nose so that the plane will crash into the side of a mountain. That 45k feet you had is now 20k feet and dropping fast, the cockpit is locked and you are unable to do a thing about it. Do you sit their and try to figure out what you can do to prevent that crash or do you bail out? Remember cockpit is locked, the fuel was dumped and now we have probably about 12k feet left to make that decision. This is what you are faced with, it is one of those things that nothing you did, can do or will do, that will make a difference. The only real thing you can do is to put on that chute and jump. I have never put on a parachute and jumped out of a perfectly good working aircraft before in my life. However I would figure it out pretty fast and jump if that plane is going down.

 

In your marriage you do have a little time to prepare yourself. I would suggest that you urge your wife to get employment again. This will help you out if you decide to divorce. Cutting off all joint accounts is great, however take it as step farther. Get yourself a small safe and store it at a trusted friend or relatives house that you can get to easily. Start storing some spare cash their, does not have to be a lot. The point is the more cash you can store the better off you will be. I'd wait as long as I could before divorcing, this is because chances are you will not be able to see your kids much if any at all. Once the youngest reaches 18yrs old or at least 16yrs old then file for that divorce. That divorce is your parachute for the nose diving plane your in. With kids I always advocate to wait as long as possible, because once your in the family courts your screwed unless you have a sex change.

 

Do you want to fix the marriage and/or your wife? Of course you do, like me you don't want to give up. The problem is that you do not have the training to fix your wife. I am sure your an awesome pilot, however I would never let you do surgery on me. Another thing that we have to remember is that you have no control over your wife. Actually you nor I have control over anyone else. The only thing we can control is ourselves and how we react to a situation. Your WW is the one who chose to put your marriage into a tailspin. Trouble is that she is at the stick and is in control of her half of the marriage. No matter what you do, the plane/marriage your in is damaged beyond repair. Landing gear is stuck in the up position and your missing parts of the wing and flaps. Your marriage just like the plane has the flight potential of a cement truck.

 

So I say wait for the kids to grow up or as much as you can handle then divorce her. In the mean time start living your life for yourself and your kids. Yes take them fun trips with the kids or even get out on your own a bit, just make sure to leave the WW behind. Trust me, being alone and free beats living with a WW any day of the week. Remember that saying of the worst day of fishing is better than the best day of working? Well the worst day of being single is better than the best day with a cheating wife. I actually come on to these forums to remind myself what I am missing out on. Yes I am missing out on wondering who my WW is banging. I miss out on being lied to. I miss out on being gas lighted. I miss out on being humiliated. I miss out on being emasculated. Yes their are a lot of things that I miss out on by not being married to my xWW. Remember your not a bad guy or anything so you do not deserve to be treated this way. Do yourself a favor and make some long term golds to be rid of your WW and enjoy your life. I hate to say it, but some things are beyond fixing.

[James-London]

I was not suggesting that OP directly ask those hypothetical questions. That would be pointless for the reason you gave. Buckeye suggested that OP ask himself those questions (not ask them to her).

 

However, those questions are still useful. These questions are answered by looking at how she behaves as described in previous posts above. The value of these hypothetical questions is to help him decide for himself whether she deserves another chance.

 

This is essentially the problem. A marriage cannot be rebuilt upon hypothetical questions that can only lead to hypothetical answers. Sure he can ask those questions, but her answers are only vague indicators at her attempt to win back her husband by guessing which answer is in his head.

 

A marriage is not a discourse, and in the end the WS needs to be viewed through her actions and her orientations to action, not to how well she performed on a multiple choice quiz.

 

The sooner those actions are seen to be independent of the BS in his recovery, the sooner the OP can better assess the chance for survival of the marriage. The chance of survival for the BS, to get over his pain, is something else altogether, and hopefully the WS can assist in this as well

[SycamoreCircle]

The one thing that shouldn't be underestimated in all this is love.

 

The OP loves his wife and all the advice and rants to get him to "kick her ass" out just don't take account of this. If you love someone you will go to the end of the earth to be with them.

 

Fellini is probably one of the most knowledgeable posters on here. No one has read more books and learnt more about affairs than he. All so he can understand the actions of the woman he loves, all so he can love her and have her love him.

 

The OP is the same he loves his wife, wants to forgive her and wants to stay with her.

 

It is easy to say dump her, move on, kick her cheatin' ass. But once love has you in its clutches you are caught. Give the man the chance to make it work. It may or it may not but don't underestimate the power of love in these cases...

 

 

I vehemently disagree. OP has been fed lies and been put at a health risk for nearly half his marriage. The mental and emotional well being of his children has been put at risk. Love is a choice. It may be esteemed with heightened poetic allure. But it can be just as easily demystified, "un-learned".

 

The wife of this man, the mother to his children has serious problems. Serious. She needs help. Unfortunately, she must be always present in OP's life, for the children's sake. But, in her present condition, she is unfit for a family household.

[Buckeye2]

I was not suggesting that OP directly ask those hypothetical questions. That would be pointless for the reason you gave. Buckeye suggested that OP ask himself those questions (not ask them to her).

 

Exactly.

 

Over and over I’ve see a BS try to gage the intensity and sincerity of their WS’s remorse. They take comfort if they determine that the levels of both are high. One of my points was that anyone, especially a narcissist, will be very dramatic and sincere when trying to save their own a$$.

[Man Mountain Makino]

It is easy to say dump her, move on, kick her cheatin' ass. But once love has you in its clutches you are caught. Give the man the chance to make it work. It may or it may not but don't underestimate the power of love in these cases...

 

I just play the odds. Odds are this will take a lot of work and the chance of it crapping out are high. Love doesn't have much to do with it.

[oldshirt]

The one thing that shouldn't be underestimated in all this is love.

 

The OP loves his wife and all the advice and rants to get him to "kick her ass" out just don't take account of this. If you love someone you will go to the end of the earth to be with them.

 

Fellini is probably one of the most knowledgeable posters on here. No one has read more books and learnt more about affairs than he. All so he can understand the actions of the woman he loves, all so he can love her and have her love him.

 

The OP is the same he loves his wife, wants to forgive her and wants to stay with her.

 

It is easy to say dump her, move on, kick her cheatin' ass. But once love has you in its clutches you are caught. Give the man the chance to make it work. It may or it may not but don't underestimate the power of love in these cases...

 

He loved the life he 'thought' he had. He loved the woman he 'thought' she was.

 

As the smoke and mirrors clear and he finds out more and more of the lies and deceptions and frauds that she has perpetuated, that love will fade away and die.

 

The woman he thought she was was a fraud and the marriage he thought he had was an illusion that she worked hard to create and maintain.

 

In time this "love" that you speak of will degrade into distrust, resentment, disrespect, bitterness and contempt.

 

Her love and commitment will be eroded over time too. Women have "responsive desire" which means they feed off of and respond to how men feel about them and treat them.

 

She may be all lovey dovey and remorsefull now, but over time as his love is replaced with resentment and contempt, her love will correspondingly fade as well.

 

This marriage wasn't created overnight, nor will it dissolve over night.

[fellini]

He loved the life he 'thought' he had. He loved the woman he 'thought' she was.

 

As the smoke and mirrors clear and he finds out more and more of the lies and deceptions and frauds that she has perpetuated, that love will fade away and die.

 

The woman he thought she was was a fraud and the marriage he thought he had was an illusion that she worked hard to create and maintain.

 

In time this "love" that you speak of will degrade into distrust, resentment, disrespect, bitterness and contempt.

 

Her love and commitment will be eroded over time too. Women have "responsive desire" which means they feed off of and respond to how men feel about them and treat them.

 

She may be all lovey dovey and remorsefull now, but over time as his love is replaced with resentment and contempt, her love will correspondingly fade as well.

 

This marriage wasn't created overnight, nor will it dissolve over night.

 

Not sure that what the OP needs is another dose of misogynist and sexist generalisations based on gender. This approach was tried back at page 2 and it didnt work there either.

[Stellar Wench]

I think at this stage it is far better that she says "thinks" than "knows" as she recognises her fallibility. If she had said "knows" there would have been posters jumping on her for that too. Nobody can say with absolute certainty what they will or won't do in years to come. Every relationship carries risk. Every relationship can cause pain.

 

OP - I think you would do very well to take that break and allow your thoughts and feelings to come through. Don't let yourself be ruled by LS opinion.

Only someone very stupid or weak-willed would let anonymous people on the web rule them.

 

Nearly every serial cheater that has been caught and wants to reconcile says that they *think* they will never do it again. Eventually, the pain of d-day fades and the allure of the ego boost becomes all too irresistible again. You are giving your perspective as a long-term former wayward spouse and are discounting the fact that this woman has not had one long-term affair but two and felt entitled to both. She has either a deep psychological or character flaw that after less than 8 weeks, thinks she's CURED of! Ridiculous at best. Take when the OP moved into the spare bedroom. If the WS had any empathy toward him, she would have offered to move to the spare bedroom instead. She's not doing any of the heavy lifting. She's being reactionary instead of proactive; she's still in consequence avoidance mode. Begging for forgiveness, un-friending Facebook friends and crying to mama is not heavy lifting either.

 

The likelihood that she will cheat again is really irrelevant, as who can say. At this point, even she can't say with certainty. What is relevant is how the OP copes with the current betrayal. So far, his reaction to the latest betrayal hasn't been a whole lot different than his reaction to the first one. Few if any consequences for the WS. From here, it seems like expressing his rage and making threats of divorce if it happens again is appropriate enough consequence. That, coupled with the WS' history, doesn't fare well considering that the rage will fade and the consequence of divorce that was avoided this time can be avoided again with better discretion next time.

 

I do not care one way or the other if the OP reconciles. I do care that he makes his choice with his eyes wide open. Telling him to ignore naysayers is not the way to do that. I also don't care if he spends time away from this forum, but I find it curious that he's avoided the subject of spending time alone away from his wife as well.

 

OP, have you moved back into the bedroom yet?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Stellar Wench

[betrayedandhurting]

Only someone very stupid or weak-willed would let anonymous people on the web rule them.

 

Nearly every serial cheater that has been caught and wants to reconcile says that they *think* they will never do it again. Eventually, the pain of d-day fades and the allure of the ego boost becomes all too irresistible again. You are giving your perspective as a long-term former wayward spouse and are discounting the fact that this woman has not had one long-term affair but two and felt entitled to both. She has either a deep psychological or character flaw that after less than 8 weeks, thinks she's CURED of! Ridiculous at best. Take when the OP moved into the spare bedroom. If the WS had any empathy toward him, she would have offered to move to the spare bedroom instead. She's not doing any of the heavy lifting. She's being reactionary instead of proactive; she's still in consequence avoidance mode. Begging for forgiveness, un-friending Facebook friends and crying to mama is not heavy lifting either.

 

The likelihood that she will cheat again is really irrelevant, as who can say. At this point, even she can't say with certainty. What is relevant is how the OP copes with the current betrayal. So far, his reaction to the latest betrayal hasn't been a whole lot different than his reaction to the first one. Few if any consequences for the WS. From here, it seems like expressing his rage and making threats of divorce if it happens again is appropriate enough consequence. That, coupled with the WS' history, doesn't fare well considering that the rage will fade and the consequence of divorce that was avoided this time can be avoided again with better discretion next time.

 

I do not care one way or the other if the OP reconciles. I do care that he makes his choice with his eyes wide open. Telling him to ignore naysayers is not the way to do that. I also don't care if he spends time away from this forum, but I find it curious that he's avoided the subject of spending time alone away from his wife as well.

 

OP, have you moved back into the bedroom yet?

 

I have not moved back into the bedroom. I have no resumed any reconciliation things like "date nights" etc. I have participated in family activities together going to softball games, bowling etc. with the children. I have talked to her but not as much as we were talking before the latest revelations.

 

Obviously if I divorce her she pays a big and public price. Obviously. But if I want to try to save the marriage (emphasis on try, I'm not going to tolerate cheating ever again, nor live forever in this pain so it may not be fixable) you all think she needs to "pay a price" to know this time I'm "serious." Ok fine, but short of divorce what prices are there to pay? I had her do the STD test. I did the paternity test. I told her mother and my parents. I have a meeting with our parish pastor priest tomorrow for my own reasons (I would like him to pray for me and my family) and she knows now he will know and feels shame for it. I had her help me tell the OM's wife and she did so willingly. She is going to IC and although for now I have stopped it she is willing to continue going to MC. I cutoff her immediate access to our significant credit and cash funds.

 

What more prices realistically short of divorce can she pay? Move out to this room so I can sleep alone in the room she screwed someone else? Look, I don't care I'm in the guest room. I could tell all our family and friends but there would be serious repercussions on the kids and I can't do that to them unless I decide my marriage is for sure over in the context of divorce, this is an option I "wish" I had but I'm not going to shame my kids to make my wife pay a price while I'm trying to save my marriage. Polygraph? Ok sure, but that seems bizarre to me... I know she is a liar and I know she did horrific things, what more?

 

I'd love to make her "pay" a price but there is no price to pay short of divorce itself to even come close to what she did. That's why so many of you say to divorce her, and you would be right... but that doesn't change the fact I realize I need to see if there is anyway I can save this and be happy again if there is even a chance it can work.

 

It is what it is. Just like you said I would be trickle truthed and I had to come back here and say you were right, there is a likelihood I am miserable and unable to forgive in a year or two, or even I find she is cheating again now or in the near future and I'll have no choice but to come back here and say you were all right again. That doesn't change the fact that I look at her and I look at my kids and I look at my life and I just can't end it all yet, I just can't... not when there is still hope. In a way it would all be "easier" if like many of your spouses she showed doubt in our marriage after D-Day, indecision, wouldnt go NC, 't unwillingness to go to IC/MC, unwillingness to not blame me etc. because then it would make the decisions so much easier and more black and white.

[oldshirt]

Not sure that what the OP needs is another dose of misogynist and sexist generalisations based on gender. This approach was tried back at page 2 and it didnt work there either.

 

How does someone having an ongoing affair in their own home under his nose for years make me sexist and misogynistic?

[anne1707]

Telling him to ignore naysayers is not the way to do that.

 

 

Which is not what I did. I told him to make up his own mind (whether that be divorce or reconciliation).

 

 

As for my perspective - well maybe it would be good for the OP to hear from WS and not just BS.

[aliveagain]

Think of us a sounding board, we all have our own opinions on how to deal with your situation but this is your life and you need to do it your way. We just point out what happened in our relationships so you can hopefully avoid some of the mistakes we made. The one thing I want to point out to you because you are so close to everything going on that you may not see it or chose to believe it, she has got your number and she is pushing all the right buttons because look at the results she is getting. Make this about you, get selfish.

[Stellar Wench]

Consequences? People have mentioned them over and over and you avoid them.

 

A trial separation so she sees what it's like on her own, and you have some breathing room.

You get a post-nup.

 

That's two HUGE ones that I think should be absolutely required as conditions before any thought of reconciliation.

 

She finds another job to show that she can help support herself should a divorce take place. That's another one.

 

Seeing true remorse and understanding of your pain before you even consider reconciliation. Another big one.

 

Here's one thing that you seem to be missing in all this. You're a type-A and want to fix things, but this isn't something you can fix. You seem to be mistaking your WS' guilt as remorse. Little of what I've read here about her actions indicate remorse, but do indicate a lot of guilt and desire to avoid the ultimate consequence of divorce.

 

Take crying to mama. Everything she said was based on her feelings and her fears. None of it showed any understanding of the pain and humiliation that she put you through. All was fear of what might happen to her if you chose divorce. That's guilt, that is not remorse. Her fear of losing you is not remorse.

 

Consider waiting until she has had at least 6 months of IC and has shown true understanding of your pain and you have had at least 3 months of IC before you decide that you are definitely going to reconcile.

[oldshirt]

I have not moved back into the bedroom. I have no resumed any reconciliation things like "date nights" etc. I have participated in family activities together going to softball games, bowling etc. with the children. I have talked to her but not as much as we were talking before the latest revelations.

 

Obviously if I divorce her she pays a big and public price. Obviously. But if I want to try to save the marriage (emphasis on try, I'm not going to tolerate cheating ever again, nor live forever in this pain so it may not be fixable) you all think she needs to "pay a price" to know this time I'm "serious." Ok fine, but short of divorce what pIs are there to pay? I had her do the STD test. I did the paternity test. I told her mother and my parents. I have a meeting with our parish pastor priest tomorrow for my own reasons (I would like him to pray for me and my family) and she knows now he will know and feels shame for it. I had her help me tell the OM's wife and she did so willingly. She is going to IC and although for now I have stopped it she is willing to continue going to MC. I cutoff her immediate access to our significant credit and cash funds.

 

What more prices realistically short of divorce can she pay? Move out to this room so I can sleep alone in the room she screwed someone else? Look, I don't care I'm in the guest room. I could tell all our family and friends but there would be serious repercussions on the kids and I can't do that to them unless I decide my marriage is for sure over in the context of divorce, this is an option I "wish" I had but I'm not going to shame my kids to make my wife pay a price while I'm trying to save my marriage. Polygraph? Ok sure, but that seems bizarre to me... I know she is a liar and I know she did horrific things, what more?

 

I'd love to make her "pay" a price but there is no price to pay short of divorce itself to even come close to what she did. That's why so many of you say to divorce her, and you would be right... but that doesn't change the fact I realize I need to see if there is anyway I can save this and be happy again if there is even a chance it can work.

 

It is what it is. Just like you said I would be trickle truthed and I had to come back here and say you were right, there is a likelihood I am miserable and unable to forgive in a year or two, or even I find she is cheating again now or in the near future and I'll have no choice but to come back here and say you were all right again. That doesn't change the fact that I look at her and I look at my kids and I look at my life and I just can't end it all yet, I just can't... not when there is still hope. In a way it would all be "easier" if like many of your spouses she showed doubt in our marriage after D-Day, indecision, wouldnt go NC, 't unwillingness to go to IC/MC, unwillingness to not blame me etc. because then it would make the decisions so much easier and more black and white.

 

 

Even though I have not been in your situation, I understand what you are saying and would probably approach it the same and do much the same as you are now.

 

I think you are looking at things pretty realistically and doing the right things for the most part.

 

As I've said before, you didn't fall in love and make a home and family in a day, you aren't going to fall out of love and dissolve the marriage in a day either.

 

 

Also I just want to add, no-one is gloating and patting themselves on the back and say, I-told-you-so. No-one is taking any pleasure in being right and many of us are feeling the heartbreak of this situation in our own way.

 

It's not really a case of I-told-you-so at all. It's that the vast majority of these cases follow very similar, predictable patterns with very predictable outcomes. No-one has a crystal ball and can predict the day and the hour of each little event, but the general patterns and progressions are very predictable.

 

This is a new and unique and highly personal situation for you. For many of t the posters here, they have already lived it themselves (sometimes more than once) and all have read hundreds of similar accounts on these and other forums.

 

Are some of us somewhat jaded and nihilistic in our responses and a little too quick to tell others to pull the ejection handle??? Probably yes.

 

But many of those same people have watched others suffer through years of sad and dysfunctional attempts to retrieve the love and happiness of the past only to have their hearts broken again or just wake up one day and realize that the time and effort that they put into reconciling was not worth the marriage they were left with at the end.

 

You seem to recognize and understand that risk so that is your informed decision to make. No-one can really come back and hold that against you and no-one can really say I-told-you-so.

 

It's more like a mechanic seeing a pool of oil under the car and advising an inexperienced driver not to ignore the oil pool or drive the car untill it's addressed. If the driver blows the engine, their mechanic isn't going to say I-told-you-so. They'll offer the options on what to do about it and the driver will have more confidence in the mechanics abilities to point out issues and problems in the future.

[2sunny]

Since you are going away this weekend - is she going with you? If not, do you plan to have someone track her while you're away to see what she is doing while you're gone?

[James-London]

B&H,

 

See bold text below. This is what I have been saying to you over a few posts now. There is really nothing you can do to make her "pay" for what she's done, short of divorcing her. She has helped you tell the OMW. You have told her mother. You could publicly humiliate her but you (quite rightly) are thinking of your kids. You have cut her off immediate access to money.

 

You come to LS to here honest opinions, not to have it sugar coated. The truth is that you will NEVER be able to "get even" or somehow "make her pay" for this. She is hurting though. She knows she has really let you down, and I believe she does care about that. Her mother is ashamed of her. Its likely your kids will learn of this one day when they are old enough, and I'm sure that has crossed your wife's mind. She has walked out of her job, and done it in a suspicious way that she probably found quite humiliating.

 

Don't get me wrong - I do not feel in the least bit sorry for her. But she is certainly paying a price for this (and probably much more than the last time?). However, all of these things will NEVER be sufficient compensation from the damage she has caused to you. That is why I said in a previous post how people who hurt other people can never really undo the damage or make up for it. That is a general rule of life.

 

If you want to give it another go, you're only shot here is for both of you to have a really clear understanding of why it happened. If she can change as a person, then there is no reason why you could not fall in love with that changed person. However, people don't usually change, at least not fundamentally. And when they do, it is because they have changed for themselves. But maybe there is an argument that you could get close to a "new and reformed person" is a different person inside the same body??

 

If you choose to go down that long road with her, there are lots of questions that would reveal more about how/why all this happened. For example, why didn't she choose multiple partners? What interested her about her AP? How were you different to him? Did her feelings towards him ever change over all that time? When did feelings of guilt come up? And how did she deal with them.... there are so many questions. These things will take months to come out.

 

While someone is cheating they don't evaluate this stuff. They just get swept along with the excitement and their own selfish needs. So, she will probably be as confused about all of this stuff as you are. Right now, she will just be focused on keeping you and her family so she will happily lie about everything in order to keep you. But if you make her believe she has lost you, then she will also not be motivated to give any explanation. So getting to the truth is really hard.

 

Ultimately, this is a test of whether what is between you is stronger than what is tearing you apart. You need her to be honest no matter how awful the truth is, and she needs to believe she can tell this to you without fearing she will lose you forever....

 

Anyway, that is the way forward, as I see it. But as to whether you can get any compensation. The answer is emphatically no. If you want to fight, all you can do is work together to a) identify why it happened, b) see evidence of fundamental change in her, c) forgive because she has earned your forgiveness (and not because you are scared of losing her/breaking up the family).

 

 

 

 

I have not moved back into the bedroom. I have no resumed any reconciliation things like "date nights" etc. I have participated in family activities together going to softball games, bowling etc. with the children. I have talked to her but not as much as we were talking before the latest revelations.

 

Obviously if I divorce her she pays a big and public price. Obviously. But if I want to try to save the marriage (emphasis on try, I'm not going to tolerate cheating ever again, nor live forever in this pain so it may not be fixable) you all think she needs to "pay a price" to know this time I'm "serious." Ok fine, but short of divorce what prices are there to pay? I had her do the STD test. I did the paternity test. I told her mother and my parents. I have a meeting with our parish pastor priest tomorrow for my own reasons (I would like him to pray for me and my family) and she knows now he will know and feels shame for it. I had her help me tell the OM's wife and she did so willingly. She is going to IC and although for now I have stopped it she is willing to continue going to MC. I cutoff her immediate access to our significant credit and cash funds.

 

What more prices realistically short of divorce can she pay? Move out to this room so I can sleep alone in the room she screwed someone else? Look, I don't care I'm in the guest room. I could tell all our family and friends but there would be serious repercussions on the kids and I can't do that to them unless I decide my marriage is for sure over in the context of divorce, this is an option I "wish" I had but I'm not going to shame my kids to make my wife pay a price while I'm trying to save my marriage. Polygraph? Ok sure, but that seems bizarre to me... I know she is a liar and I know she did horrific things, what more?

 

I'd love to make her "pay" a price but there is no price to pay short of divorce itself to even come close to what she did. That's why so many of you say to divorce her, and you would be right... but that doesn't change the fact I realize I need to see if there is anyway I can save this and be happy again if there is even a chance it can work.

 

It is what it is. Just like you said I would be trickle truthed and I had to come back here and say you were right, there is a likelihood I am miserable and unable to forgive in a year or two, or even I find she is cheating again now or in the near future and I'll have no choice but to come back here and say you were all right again. That doesn't change the fact that I look at her and I look at my kids and I look at my life and I just can't end it all yet, I just can't... not when there is still hope. In a way it would all be "easier" if like many of your spouses she showed doubt in our marriage after D-Day, indecision, wouldnt go NC, 't unwillingness to go to IC/MC, unwillingness to not blame me etc. because then it would make the decisions so much easier and more black and white.

[Stellar Wench]

Which is not what I did. I told him to make up his own mind (whether that be divorce or reconciliation).

 

 

As for my perspective - well maybe it would be good for the OP to hear from WS and not just BS.

LOL. I pity the fool who got a divorce because some strangerz on the interwebz told him to. Considering that the OP appears to be pretty intelligent, the comment pretty much goes without saying that he should make his own choices. Are you implying that the OP isn't intelligent enough to make up his own mind? It seems your comment was more a dig at the BS here than a word of wisdom to the OP.

 

I am not discounting your opinion as a WS. It's interesting that you keep discounting the fact that not only is she a WS but a serial cheater. The mindset of the serial cheater is often vastly different than that of the garden-variety WS. It would be remiss of us if we didn't warn the OP of the difference.

[anne1707]

LOL. I pity the fool who got a divorce because some strangerz on the interwebz told him to. Considering that the OP appears to be pretty intelligent, the comment pretty much goes without saying that he should make his own choices. Are you implying that the OP isn't intelligent enough to make up his own mind? It seems your comment was more a dig at the BS here than a word of wisdom to the OP.

 

I am not discounting your opinion as a WS. It's interesting that you keep discounting the fact that not only is she a WS but a serial cheater. The mindset of the serial cheater is often vastly different than that of the garden-variety WS. It would be remiss of us if we didn't warn the OP of the difference.

 

 

You want to twist my words then feel free but you are way off base in thinking I am saying the above.

[oldshirt]

In regards to her feeling the "consequences" you are technically somewhat right but I don't think you are quite getting it.

 

You have to look at what you are providing her in relation to what she provides you and is there equality or not.

 

You are providing her a home, resources, status in the community, protection,security etc. That is why she married you and what she is getting out of the marriage.

 

What you were getting out of the marriage was a cute chick cuddling up against you, telling you how great you are and giving you lovins and sexuality, along with being the primary caregiver to your children. All you asked of her in return is she love you and provide sexuality to you but be exclusive to you with her sexuality and love.

 

BUT, she broke that promised and subdivided her love and sexuality with someone else and provided him with her sexuality for years but never once asked him to make a house payment or change a diaper or take care of sick kid etc.

 

The main thing you had to give was your companionship, money, home, protection, status in the community etc and she took that from you under false pretenses and cheated you out of her exclusivity by willful deception.

 

So here's where I'm going with this and this is what you need to understand - as long as you continue to provide her those things, she has you by the balls and she controls you and gets what she wants. She suffers no real consequence as long as she has her home, her provider, her intact family, her place in the community, her protection etc.

 

Yes she was embarrassed to have a Qtip stuck up her Jay-Jay to see if there was anything growing in there, but there was no actual LOSS.

 

Untill she feels actual LOSS she has no reason to change and no reason to mourn.

 

She may feel bad she hurt your feelings and she may fear people will label her a slut or an adultress but untill she feels loss, she won't truly be motivated to change.

 

You are the one who has experienced loss. You have lost your wife's fidelity and lost the image of what you believed her and your marriage to be. You have lost your faith and trust in her.

 

She has lost nothing but some conversation and maybe a footrub or something.

 

What she has GAINED is the knowledge she can take an extra lover for years and not lose that which she cherishes most which is her home, her security, her money and daily contract with her children.

 

In otherwords she knows she has you beat and has you emasculated. Your dck means nothing to her because she knows she can get dck anywhere. And she knows you won't kick her out or leave her if she does.

 

If she keeps that which she treasures most, then she is the victor and knows she can cheat without personal loss to herself.

 

That's what people mean when they are saying she has had no consequences. Telling the OM s wife and getting STD and paternity tests were a little embarrassing but there was no loss there.

 

To date, she has lost NOTHING for multiple years of lies, deceptions and adultry.

[2sunny]

Old shirt is right. She's hardly "lost" anything about her life (former life).

 

She may have had "some" of her truth revealed but she's a very skilled pretender.

 

 

 

 

The bottom line is you are staying for now.

 

 

So mainly you need to look at YOUR expectations. Expectations are what will disappoint faster than anything.

 

What are YOUR expectations?

 

That she get honest?

That she now LEARNS how to BECOME faithful?

That she learn more of why she cheated and learn how to PREVENT that moving forward?

Just be a good pretender and take care of the kids and home?

 

 

The list could go on and on - but if you don't know what your expectations are out if this union - then you're just shooting in the dark.

 

 

 

I purposely did NOT call it a marriage - it's really never been a marriage since she intentionally soiled it many times.

[aliveagain]

Have you considered making a career change(not necessarily changing who you fly for), one that allows you to fly without as many overnights or weekends away? There will be financial repercussions but being home more will offset some of that. She can get new employment to help compensate your loss of income.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way but a few things you posted still bother me regarding who knows about her secret life. She claims that no one knows but every time you went out of town and she left your children with her mother, wouldn't you think that her mother knew something was array? Wouldn't she question her behavior? Every time you went out of town wouldn't your neighbors over the years notice the same car in your driveway overnight? Let's be real, there are probably a lot of people outside of her office that know or suspect but refused to get involved. Everyone but me knew about my situation.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

So here's where I'm going with this and this is what you need to understand - as long as you continue to provide her those things, she has you by the balls and she controls you and gets what she wants. She suffers no real consequence as long as she has her home, her provider, her intact family, her place in the community, her protection etc.

 

Yes she was embarrassed to have a Qtip stuck up her Jay-Jay to see if there was anything growing in there, but there was no actual LOSS.

 

Untill she feels actual LOSS she has no reason to change and no reason to mourn.

 

 

 

 

 

My last post had a lot of words and a lot of fluff. This above is the main message and bottom line.

 

She wont grasp and regret what she has done and won't change her behavior untill she experiences an actual loss because of it.

 

Her tears and promises are the result of fear of potential future loss, but she hasn't experienced any actual loss yet.

 

Untill she experiences an actual loss her behavior will likely continue if not actually get worse.

 

(Yes get worse, because subconsciously she knows she can get away with it and people lose respect for people they can mistreat without repercussions. ....and STD and paternity tests and telling OM s wife are not true repercussions because she didn't lose anything. It was nothing more than an embarrassing hassle)

 

There is nothing she had before that she doesn't have now. Untill she can look back and identify what she used to have that she doesn't now, she will not have had any consequences.

[2sunny]

You're gambling with extreme odds against you.

 

It's a long shot for sure, but you're willing to ante up and be all in.

 

 

Be aware - the prize pot in the middle of the table is tainted by evil. You stay and play the game and you can't blame anyone else for the outcome of staying at the table to play.

 

It's really not her fault at this point! You KNOW who she REALLY is and what she REALLY does within a marriage... Yet you CHOOSE to participate...so at this point it is on you.

 

We are all a product of our OWN CHOICES! Now you've made that choice. No one to blame but yourself if/when she cheats again. You chose to stay knowing she's a skilled serial cheater that has no conscience or clue how to be a faithful wife to you.

 

 

She never respected you - she never honored you - she was never truthful to you. She hasn't learned how to change that for you and you haven't required the change in her. Expect to live this way man... This is your marriage now and always has been.

 

Since nothing about the dynamics has been changed - you still have the same crappy M she's been providing for years. Except now you know and you're still willing to play at her table. It's a crap shoot - she knows you're not moving to end the game you're playing. She's got you beat.

 

Your odds are low. She only cares that you stay at the table and continue to ante up.

[fellini]

It is amazing how many people can talk about how she has lost nothing unless its tangible.

 

It just doesnt work that way. Funny that because when we talk about what a BS has lost on dday, there is zero argument. The BS has lost his marriage, his trust, his faith, on and o the list goes - i know, i have been there.

 

But never did I ever feel for a second that because i didnt extract some hide off my WS did she not suffer a loss. She knows that the day I discovered about the affair she lost ME. She lost a part of herself she can never ever ever in a zillion years have back: something so precious that her life was wrapped up in it. That she was a faithful and good woman. She lost her dignity, something she did not feel until i knew about her other life.

 

The fact is those BSs who stuck around longer than an hour or two after discovery know perfectly well that every day both BS and WS ar fully aware of what has been lost, between them, and within each other. Adults, even adulterers, are not blind.