Do more mature women still want a jerk?

[hotpotato]

Dopes, losers, drug/alcohol abusers, convicts, etc....will always find a way to dupe dumb and naive women...And thank God for them there are no shortage of these types of women willing to carry their sorry asses..

 

Its a survival tactic they have honed through their years...They cant do it legitimately..

 

TFY

And so do plenty of men who dont do drugs, have never been convicted. I guess we are all really just people at the end of the day.

 

Right. I suspect that to some extent this might be part of the pull of prisoners for some women. And delinquency in general.

 

Society is often keen to make outsiders of people. It can strengthen people's sense of belonging, and of being part of a community to see that other people are on the outside. That there's a delinquent society that they can feel superior too. And I suppose it's when people feel that sense of rejection from society that they're pulled towards the dark side. That can apply to men and women alike. During the witch trials, women were particularly likely to be on trial because they were regarded as fundamentally bad. Morally inferior to men. To this day a lot of that thinking prevails. Which is part of what makes an outlaw attractive. It doesn't have to be a prisoner...it just has to be somebody who's on the outskirts of society.

 

I mean part of what made Titanic a big favourite with a lot of young girls and women was the notion of this woman who couldn't quite fit into the society she was supposed to be part of finding the part of herself that she was under pressure to repress in this poverty stricken artist on board the ship. Somebody who accepted and even enjoyed all the aspects of her that her society pursed its lips about.

 

Of course, the dark side of a woman being drawn towards delinquency is that she could well end up being exploited. Again, both men and women are vulnerable to that. Children are vulnerable to it. The dodgiest people in life have long preyed on those who feel isolated and marginalised, by offering them a sense of acceptance....but the price for that sense of acceptance (which might only be temporary in any event) is very high.

 

Do all prisoners fall into that category of exploitative abusers? I've dealt with juvenile delinquents in the past in social work - then I switched to law, and my first job was in a criminal law firm. The picture being portrayed by a couple of guys here of prisoners tending to be these Machiavellian characters who charm women into doing their bidding...well, yes - when I worked in that firm I certainly encountered a few who were pretty slimey and clearly saw themselves in that light. However there were plenty of others who were addicts with very poor impulse control and low intelligence. Or adult versions of the children I'd worked with in the past. People who grew up marginalised, would probably never be accepted by mainstream society even if they tried - and who just followed the crowd they knew, had grown up with and felt accepted by.

 

People who were, as we like to put it on this board, damaged or broken in childhood...and who cared more about just finding acceptance wherever they could than they did about striving to follow the rules of a society that is pretty much always going to think they're crap. That's not an excuse for them, it's just a description of their reality. The notion that they're all these very cunning, psychopathic lady-magnets is all very glamorous and it makes for good storylines in tv programmes, but from what I've seen, the reality is a lot more mundane. Then again, I live in a provincial Scottish town. We're not really talking about the Sopranos in this neck of the woods.

Exactly. A lot of times life just isnt that exciting. Many women dating men are incarcerated or excon have the exact same issues as wonen dating Everyday Joe.

 

I think whats going on here is that sone guys dont want to be negatively compared to convicts. Well, its reaally more or less the same in the end.

 

The recidivism rate here in my state is about 78%. So, one out of 5 inmates who get out, will be back in prison. You also have to take into account the amount of criminals that learn to avoid prison, or don't live long when they get out.

 

I hope the women know that her manly looking inmate boyfriend sending her flowers has sexual relations with his cell buddy.

Why are you telling me this? I already posted about the guy I dated who had issues staying out of jail. Please read my posts before you educate me.

 

I am getting the feeling that asking for a man to be nice, in good shape, and romantic is almost asking for too much...

 

btw plenty if dudes in the outside are dl. Like probably my nerdy nuce guy ex.

 

I guess since he cheats abd sends her flowers, he is in the same category as nice guys!

 

This is almost kind of sad. Free dudes and convicts have a lot in common. I guess that settles it. People gonna be people!

[thefooloftheyear]

And so do plenty of men who dont do drugs, have never been convicted. I guess we are all really just people at the end of the day.

 

Good and successful men dont need women to carry their baggage and make them PB&J sammwiches while they get stoned and hang with ther buddies on a streetcorner in the middle of the day, while their "gf's" go out and break their asses to support it..

 

 

Exactly. A lot of times life just isnt that exciting. Many women dating men are incarcerated or excon have the exact same issues as wonen dating Everyday Joe.

 

Like maybe robbing the neighbors house or selling dope from a womans apartment while she is at work...oh the excitement of it all....I guess the everyday Jane has to worry about the everyday Joe banging her friend though....I can see that..

 

I think whats going on here is that sone guys dont want to be negatively compared to convicts. Well, its reaally more or less the same in the end.

 

No, its not...I dont have a rap sheet and I dont have to piss in a cup or visit a P.O,......Its not the same...

 

 

Why are you telling me this? I already posted about the guy I dated who had issues staying out of jail. Please read my posts before you educate me.

 

I am getting the feeling that asking for a man to be nice, in good shape, and romantic is almost asking for too much...

 

Eh...Im nice most of the time, Im in phenomenal shape, but I am really not that romantic....Maybe you have something there.....

 

btw plenty if dudes in the outside are dl. Like probably my nerdy nuce guy ex.

 

I guess since he cheats abd sends her flowers, he is in the same category as nice guys!

 

This is almost kind of sad. Free dudes and convicts have a lot in common. I guess that settles it. People gonna be people!

 

Sorry HP....I dont think you made your point...If you like convicts, great...but lets be realistic...They arent the same as a "regular Joe"..You want to say that a lot of regular Joe's are jerkoffs? Sure...<redacted>

 

TFY

Edited August 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[dumbass2]

Thank you to some of those that replied to my initial post. I can't ever think of another post i have ever made anywhere and it got highjacked so badly. I can't even make it through most of the posts because they just don't relate to my issue. Guys in prison? Really? Oh well, I'm dealing with it.

 

Hopefully some of you on here will take a look at this and remember that we are all on here to try and help each other and if you need to, just start your own thread if needed.

[Taramere]

So...you never know...So many people walking around, among us. You think they are great, moral people. Maybe because they haven't robbed a bank or some petty crime. But how they treat people is SO much more damaging. He has damaged me and his three sons, for the rest of our lives.

 

What we've had here in the UK, over the past few years....so many celebrities and politicians found to have been involved in child abuse. One of the worst:

 

Jimmy Savile sexual abuse scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Revered through his life for his charitable works. Kids in hospitals he visited have reported having been warned by nurses to feign sleep when he came into the ward, so that he wouldn't grope them. He was a horrible man (and I don't know anybody who was a British kid in the 1970s who didn't find him intensely creepy) yet very respected in British society for many years. Friend of royalty etc. Some of the worst people out there will probably never set foot in a prison. Plenty of their victims likely will, though.

 

Also, lots of guys go through a bit of a delinquency stage in their teens and early twenties. I've seen guys I know posting pictures of vandalised landmarks on Facebook, and railing about the state of modern society and the lack of respect. I'll think to myself "yes, vandalism is horrible - but what's this righteous kids today bullsh*t? You occasionally got up to exactly the same destructive crap 30 years ago when you were a teenager with too much drink inside you." People tend to have selective memories about that sort of thing.

 

A lot of girls do too. I can remember quite a few girls in my class getting into trouble for shoplifting circa the age of 14 or 15 - and that was a pretty good girls' school. A lot of this Bad Boy/Bad Girl thing really is just adolescent stuff that hopefully most people grow out of.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Taramere

[Taramere]

Thank you to some of those that replied to my initial post. I can't ever think of another post i have ever made anywhere and it got highjacked so badly. I can't even make it through most of the posts because they just don't relate to my issue. Guys in prison? Really? Oh well, I'm dealing with it.

 

Hopefully some of you on here will take a look at this and remember that we are all on here to try and help each other and if you need to, just start your own thread if needed.

 

Sorry for my part in that. You were unlucky in that your particular problem has triggered the nice guy v bad boy debate that has been rehashed on here numerous times. Usually at some point in that debate, somebody will raise the subject of prisoners/serial killers getting letters from women...and on this occasion when it happened, it went off on that tangent. However, with this post you're kind of shutting your own discussion down. I've generally found the best way to get back on topic is to pick up on a post that contains things relevant to your situation and address it. That way you're keeping people engaged. A more productive approach might have been to say "the stuff about prisoners sounds like an interesting topic for another discussion, but it doesn't help me deal with my specific problem..." then ask a question that directs people back to your problem.

 

Looking at the way you handled this just now, I'm wondering if there's any mirror to how you handled conflicts with your ex. There's a sort of "Gee, thanks for nothing, you guys ruined my thread" quality to it that sounds complaining but doesn't smack of any "I'm going to get things back on track here" decisiveness. As a woman, I would struggle to know how to deal with a man who adopted that approach to conflict. Or anybody actually. It's an approach that calls for contrition and "I'm sorry" on the other people's part but doesn't really provide any clue as to what they actually need and how some agreement can be reached.

 

My reading of your problem was that conflict with your ex involved drama, you want a life that's relatively drama free but you're concerned that maybe women never grow out of wanting drama. I was hoping you'd pick up on my earlier point about differentiating between conflict and drama. If you don't differentiate between the two, then that might be the problem. A person doesn't need to be a perpetual adolescent to be involved in conflict. It's just one of those realities of life. People disagree on things all the time, and it's not unhealthy. Handling disagreement is part of personal growth and learning - and if you give up on all that for the sake of absolute peace and harmony, then you're in danger of beginning to stagnate at a relatively early period in your life.

 

Unfortunately the way your ex termed it "if you were more of a jerk..." puts a very negative spin on it. A jerk is, to my mind, somebody who's an a-hole just for the sake of being an a-hole. Who makes conflict unnecessarily personal and uses it as an opportunity to throw out jabs and try to wound rather than to have any sort of interesting or productive discussion. I'd certainly see a woman who wanted that kind of "jerk" as being in a very bad place.

 

But if what she actually means when she talks about jerks is somebody who has a mind of his own, who has opinions that he isn't afraid to share and who is in consequence somebody she can have thought provoking discussions and disagreements with then that's something different. It sounds as though you don't really want a relationship featuring that sort of thing. That really, you would rather just have a quiet life. In which case, the solution is to find a woman who wants the same thing. If, however, part of the draw of your ex related to the way she behaved during conflict, and if you find it hard to be particularly attracted to women who just want a quiet life (and sometimes people who just want a quiet life are less appealing in practice than they are in theory) then you will probably have to open yourself up to being a bit less conflict averse. And perhaps letting go of the notion that conflict automatically = childish drama would be helpful.

[TheBeckoningCat]

Short answer - no.

 

Long answer - maybe! (if she isn't really mature due to unresolved dad issues)

 

I am 48, and have no interest in jerks. Many women who grow up without a good father figure may re-enact their childhood trauma by choosing a "jerk", or may simply not know how to distinguish a quality guy from a jerk. If a woman has co-dependency issues, this is compounded. Plus there is always bad luck which places jerks in one's path!! Anyone who says fathers are not important is both a sexist and terribly unwise!! A healthy father (or father figure) is essential to helping a girl grow up to be a woman who knows her own value and the value of a good man!!

 

So, if a woman has therapy, pursues a good self- help and self-improvement program, is on a healthy spiritual path, or otherwise works to improve herself, she will mature and not want a jerk. But some older women haven't pursued their own healing, thus remain susceptible to jerks.

 

The issue is (she says ducking in case an extremist feminist wants to hit her over the head) that many women like strong men, but forget that what matters is to sort out a strong GOOD man, and avoid strong BAD men. Bad boys may have allure for teenagers, but maturity involves wisely choosing good men of character,

 

Sincerely,

Cat

 

(P.S. Yes, that guy's mug shot LOOKED great, but... so what?!!)

[hotpotato]

I read your post lol. Just a reminder that what you experienced, the guy ending up back in jail, is the norm, not the exception.

 

This is offtopic, but seeing him makes me believe they should be not be paroled back into their old environment. This guy was sent to a hwh in a town 3 hours away. I think it really helped him.

 

That is actually pretty tough to find these days. Do you know how hard it is to find a nice, loyal girl who isn't too overweight? Those girls are probably all dating the guys you want.

Hey, i'm nice, loyal, and definitely not overweight.

 

True, I'm sure. But almost all guys on the inside are doing it. It's actually kinda funny to see guys who are supposed to be hardened thugs snuggling in their cell.

 

Fleece Johnson, "When you go to prison..BOOTY! MAN'S BUTT! We gonna be yo butt! lol If anyone knows who Fleece is, you're cracking up right now!

 

But I don't think you want to get into it with me, when it comes to men and fidelity...

[hotpotato]

Thank you to some of those that replied to my initial post. I can't ever think of another post i have ever made anywhere and it got highjacked so badly. I can't even make it through most of the posts because they just don't relate to my issue. Guys in prison? Really? Oh well, I'm dealing with it.

 

Hopefully some of you on here will take a look at this and remember that we are all on here to try and help each other and if you need to, just start your own thread if needed.

 

Yes, you're right. Sorry!

 

I would say no. I don't think any woman consciously wants a jerk.

 

First of all, what is a jerk? Some people would call a man who has boundaries a jerk.

 

Personally, as I get older I take less crap. I've been through turmoil, and I don't want to live like that again.

[Discjockey80]

Op,

 

 

My guess is that what she might have meant is this:

 

 

If you had revealed your true feelings, whether that made you sound like a jerk or not, it might have made a difference.

 

 

Women interpret emotional honesty...as Love. And what women want more than anything is romance and love. So, I wonder if what she meant was that if you had been more open and 'brave' about telling her things that things may have turned out differently. Not that she wants someone who mistreats her on purpose.

 

 

The term jerk was probably being thrown around generally when you both talked and she interpreted your meaning to match hers.

 

 

Sometimes we hold back how we feel in fear of sounding 'jerky'.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Discjockey80

[Trane]

The same women who love the bad boy types, love the jerks as well.

 

The main purpose is to tame and change these guys to fit with their social agenda.

 

Some like to share their conquests and tips with the rest of the wives or girlfriends who are in the same boat. The woman in the group who tamed the biggest jerk and has the longest current relationship is the crowned queen.

[dumbass2]

Sorry for my part in that. You were unlucky in that your particular problem has triggered the nice guy v bad boy debate that has been rehashed on here numerous times. Usually at some point in that debate, somebody will raise the subject of prisoners/serial killers getting letters from women...and on this occasion when it happened, it went off on that tangent. However, with this post you're kind of shutting your own discussion down. I've generally found the best way to get back on topic is to pick up on a post that contains things relevant to your situation and address it. That way you're keeping people engaged. A more productive approach might have been to say "the stuff about prisoners sounds like an interesting topic for another discussion, but it doesn't help me deal with my specific problem..." then ask a question that directs people back to your problem.

 

Looking at the way you handled this just now, I'm wondering if there's any mirror to how you handled conflicts with your ex. There's a sort of "Gee, thanks for nothing, you guys ruined my thread" quality to it that sounds complaining but doesn't smack of any "I'm going to get things back on track here" decisiveness. As a woman, I would struggle to know how to deal with a man who adopted that approach to conflict. Or anybody actually. It's an approach that calls for contrition and "I'm sorry" on the other people's part but doesn't really provide any clue as to what they actually need and how some agreement can be reached.

 

My reading of your problem was that conflict with your ex involved drama, you want a life that's relatively drama free but you're concerned that maybe women never grow out of wanting drama. I was hoping you'd pick up on my earlier point about differentiating between conflict and drama. If you don't differentiate between the two, then that might be the problem. A person doesn't need to be a perpetual adolescent to be involved in conflict. It's just one of those realities of life. People disagree on things all the time, and it's not unhealthy. Handling disagreement is part of personal growth and learning - and if you give up on all that for the sake of absolute peace and harmony, then you're in danger of beginning to stagnate at a relatively early period in your life.

 

Unfortunately the way your ex termed it "if you were more of a jerk..." puts a very negative spin on it. A jerk is, to my mind, somebody who's an a-hole just for the sake of being an a-hole. Who makes conflict unnecessarily personal and uses it as an opportunity to throw out jabs and try to wound rather than to have any sort of interesting or productive discussion. I'd certainly see a woman who wanted that kind of "jerk" as being in a very bad place.

 

But if what she actually means when she talks about jerks is somebody who has a mind of his own, who has opinions that he isn't afraid to share and who is in consequence somebody she can have thought provoking discussions and disagreements with then that's something different. It sounds as though you don't really want a relationship featuring that sort of thing. That really, you would rather just have a quiet life. In which case, the solution is to find a woman who wants the same thing. If, however, part of the draw of your ex related to the way she behaved during conflict, and if you find it hard to be particularly attracted to women who just want a quiet life (and sometimes people who just want a quiet life are less appealing in practice than they are in theory) then you will probably have to open yourself up to being a bit less conflict averse. And perhaps letting go of the notion that conflict automatically = childish drama would be helpful.

 

You make some good points, but no, I am not generally conflict adverse. I have managed up to 200 employees in the past and own my own business and also deal with my parents nursing home, so I have plenty of conflict to deal with and deal with it head on and am looking, I guess, for less in an adult relationship. Her having a few drinks and then going kick and knocking on doors down the hotel hallway and then trying to go out the door naked is drama. Telling me her ex had been texting her and he said he's coming over right now and saying we both have to leave is drama. There is some more. As far as conflict? She brought up expectations and I told her she needs to let me know and not resort to just not calling me or answering my calls when she gets upset at something, especially if it was something that I had no idea on, which a lot of times was the case. I would be the one to take charge on the physical side and she liked that. I would take charge on planning stuff to do and she liked that. I would always drive. I would open doors for her and always pull out her seat at dinner. When she was late getting ready to go out, I would let her know I was upset. She got better at that. The problem I ran into was the last month or so I started caring less and pretty much gave up on dealing with some of the "drama". I continued to be supportive with her degree she was working on and her kids. I was very understanding when it came to those areas. I think she just kept trying to push my buttons. I was frustrated going into the break up which is why I took it so well. It's difficult for me now because I should have been the one to end it a lot earlier. I blame myself for that. I really did like her and loved her most of the time.

[y2k]

I'm a guy so I'll put my two cents in (most women are going to hate what I have to say):

 

If a female still has plenty of potential demand (meaning she still has plenty of sex appeal to the point where she deep inside knows she can have men at will), she will love the abusive guy, or the cheating guy, or the jerk. Well, they'll love the effective jerk, the one that makes her actually believe that she can't be without him.

 

The females that tend not to have that same sex appeal/demand tend to be the ones who are less likely to love the jerks. That's not to say that they don't argue with their men, but it is no where near to the level of the females who have the greater sex appeal.

 

Mating is really a game. It's a competition. The females with more sex appeal require more of a battle, hence their stupid choices in men (I've seen this a million times).

 

And before someone comes yelling at me, I was the nice guy for a long time, and yet only got bullied by females, rejected, etc. Now that I'm becoming semi-abusive and an effective jerk, I've had more luck. Deep inside, I hate being a jerk. It is an act in a way, but it works. Sad but true.

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm a guy so I'll put my two cents in (most women are going to hate what I have to say):

 

If a female still has plenty of potential demand (meaning she still has plenty of sex appeal to the point where she deep inside knows she can have men at will), she will love the abusive guy, or the cheating guy, or the jerk. Well, they'll love the effective jerk, the one that makes her actually believe that she can't be without him.

 

The females that tend not to have that same sex appeal/demand tend to be the ones who are less likely to love the jerks. That's not to say that they don't argue with their men, but it is no where near to the level of the females who have the greater sex appeal.

 

Mating is really a game. It's a competition. The females with more sex appeal require more of a battle, hence their stupid choices in men (I've seen this a million times).

 

And before someone comes yelling at me, I was the nice guy for a long time, and yet only got bullied by females, rejected, etc. Now that I'm becoming semi-abusive and an effective jerk, I've had more luck. Deep inside, I hate being a jerk. It is an act in a way, but it works. Sad but true.

 

As a guy ive found the exact opposite to be the case....

 

Maybe what you are confusing "jerk" with is a strong and decisive man who isnt a doormat or some woman's little b!tch-boy...That isnt a jerk, although some insecure women might characterize them as such...Thats just a strong willed guy that knows what he wants and doesnt get brow beaten..

 

The actual jerks, losers, convicts, etc are usually with women who have little or no options.....so they drag these mutts off the curb and give them a shot...They think these mutts really care about them, all while they are digging up her Petunia's and shytting on her favorite living room sofa....so to speak...

 

Strong, attractive and desirable women know what they want and know how to go about getting it....They won't waste a single minute..

 

TFY

[TheBeckoningCat]

Deep down, whether is evolutionary biology, or cultural conditioning, secure desirable women want a strong man. If she's healthy and smart, she'll do her best to sort out a strong man with integrity of character, and avoid the jerks. If she is vulnerable and unwise, the jerk may seem like a strong man but deep down he's weak. Now, there is some sexism still at play, as some women also like to go for men with cash (in modern/postmodern times, some guys do this too).... so if the jerk has cash, some women (sadly) will stick around with the jerk longer until it just gets unbearable (eg// the jerk gets physically violent).

 

The other problem with jerks is that they tend to break down their partner's self-esteem even more (I've found this to be true of both male and female jerks), which can keep a person stuck with the jerk for long.

 

Now, TFY's excellent words:

Maybe what you are confusing "jerk" with is a strong and decisive man who isnt a doormat or some woman's little b!tch-boy...That isnt a jerk, although some insecure women might characterize them as such...Thats just a strong willed guy that knows what he wants and doesnt get brow beaten..

[TheBeckoningCat]

Usually at some point in that debate, somebody will raise the subject of prisoners/serial killers getting letters from women...

 

The lure of the bad boy/girl....

 

Speaking as a Canadian (she says lowering her head in same for our in/Justice system), not only did we let Karla Homolka out of jail (serial killer who assisted in the murder of her own sister, among others), but some guy actually married her and had kids with her once she was out!!

 

So I guess the lure of the uber-jerk remains alive and propagating...

[Mister Zen]

A lot of women have a strong idea in their head of what a "man" should be and they have no respect for men who don't fit that image.... which is usually defined as strong/aggressive regardless of how much of a jerk he is.

 

What I find annoying is many women today hate the idea of following female gender roles. Yet, they are only attracted to men who follow male gender roles.

 

So women can act however they what and be whoever they want to be and no one should judge them or question them. While men have to fit into this narrow image of masculinity to be attractive and respected.

[TheBeckoningCat]

In reply to Mister Zen:

 

I have noticed that there is something awry in North American culture. When things are too far one way (eg// too restrictive gender roles for women), before they rebalance, they go too far the other way (eg// too restrictive gender roles for men). An exceedingly controversial example of this is the phenomenon of "affirmative action" programs, and any related discrimination against white men, which of course followed upon the horrific discrimination against non-white people. Did I forget to mention "political correctness" in all its left and right wing variants?!

 

At any rate, the societal scripts for men I based my own comments on are those that apply to "mature" men and women today (by which I mean people 40 and up, some of whom are mature, some not). Many people 40 and up in North America today were most likely raised with the traditional scripts which I hope are changing albeit not in a balanced or prompt way. The original question was about if "mature" (ie// 40 and up) women are still into jerks... and I think some are due to traditional scripts about strong guys and/or the psychological impact if some of the "jerk lovers" grew up without a healthy father figure. I realize I forgot to sufficiently cite the generational aspect.

 

I believe these problems are still present in society since scripts for women have changed faster than scripts for men and boys, a great book on this being "Real Boys"...I think the author is D. Pollock....

 

Cat

[TheBeckoningCat]

A strong man need NOT be aggressive, and certainly need not be a jerk. One can be strong in wisdom, courage, tenderness. For example, the Dalai Lama is stronger IMHO than Hulk Hogan...not that there's anything wrong with being a wrestler, its simply only one form of strength. A martial arts instructor once told me a true master knows how to PREVENT a fight before it even starts, without raising a hand.

 

Sincerely,

Cat

[dumbass2]

You make some good points, but no, I am not generally conflict adverse. I have managed up to 200 employees in the past and own my own business and also deal with my parents nursing home, so I have plenty of conflict to deal with and deal with it head on and am looking, I guess, for less in an adult relationship. Her having a few drinks and then going kick and knocking on doors down the hotel hallway and then trying to go out the door naked is drama. Telling me her ex had been texting her and he said he's coming over right now and saying we both have to leave is drama. There is some more. As far as conflict? She brought up expectations and I told her she needs to let me know and not resort to just not calling me or answering my calls when she gets upset at something, especially if it was something that I had no idea on, which a lot of times was the case. I would be the one to take charge on the physical side and she liked that. I would take charge on planning stuff to do and she liked that. I would always drive. I would open doors for her and always pull out her seat at dinner. When she was late getting ready to go out, I would let her know I was upset. She got better at that. The problem I ran into was the last month or so I started caring less and pretty much gave up on dealing with some of the "drama". I continued to be supportive with her degree she was working on and her kids. I was very understanding when it came to those areas. I think she just kept trying to push my buttons. I was frustrated going into the break up which is why I took it so well. It's difficult for me now because I should have been the one to end it a lot earlier. I blame myself for that. I really did like her and loved her most of the time.

 

Some feedback please on my prior post that I quoted on some of the drama and conflict. I'm really trying to figure out if she really wanted a jerk and more drama or if I was too understanding and it wasn't drama, just conflict and I didn't deal with it right.

[Taramere]

You make some good points, but no, I am not generally conflict adverse. I have managed up to 200 employees in the past and own my own business and also deal with my parents nursing home, so I have plenty of conflict to deal with and deal with it head on and am looking, I guess, for less in an adult relationship. Her having a few drinks and then going kick and knocking on doors down the hotel hallway and then trying to go out the door naked is drama....(some more examples of drama)

 

Oh, okay. Years ago I had a boyfriend who did drama. I could relay a couple of examples but it was embarrassing enough back then, without me rehashing it on a message board years later. Suffice to say that it's usually upsetting when relationships end or the person indicates that other people are more their type than you are...but ,sometimes you have to recognise the compliment inherent in the words "you're not my type."

 

As far as conflict? She brought up expectations and I told her she needs to let me know and not resort to just not calling me or answering my calls when she gets upset at something, especially if it was something that I had no idea on, which a lot of times was the case.

 

That seems a reasonable enough message

 

I would be the one to take charge on the physical side and she liked that. I would take charge on planning stuff to do and she liked that. I would always drive. I would open doors for her and always pull out her seat at dinner. When she was late getting ready to go out, I would let her know I was upset. She got better at that. The problem I ran into was the last month or so I started caring less and pretty much gave up on dealing with some of the "drama". I continued to be supportive with her degree she was working on and her kids. I was very understanding when it came to those areas. I think she just kept trying to push my buttons. I was frustrated going into the break up which is why I took it so well. It's difficult for me now because I should have been the one to end it a lot earlier. I blame myself for that. I really did like her and loved her most of the time.

 

Oh, I think I see what's going on now. Well, it's just speculation of course, but I think by jerk she might have meant "somebody who reacts in the way I think they should react when I push their buttons". Reacts how, I can't say...but generally I think that people who are pushing for reactions - whether angry, emotional, outraged, whatever - get a sense of power from you giving the reaction they were hoping for. Or, at least, it makes them feel more visible.

 

Going back to something you said at the start of your post:

 

Her having a few drinks and then going kick and knocking on doors down the hotel hallway and then trying to go out the door naked

 

Yeah...that's zany. I think you can probably rest assured that she's not a typical 40 something.

[dumbass2]

Oh, okay. Years ago I had a boyfriend who did drama. I could relay a couple of examples but it was embarrassing enough back then, without me rehashing it on a message board years later. Suffice to say that it's usually upsetting when relationships end or the person indicates that other people are more their type than you are...but ,sometimes you have to recognise the compliment inherent in the words "you're not my type."

 

 

 

That seems a reasonable enough message

 

 

 

Oh, I think I see what's going on now. Well, it's just speculation of course, but I think by jerk she might have meant "somebody who reacts in the way I think they should react when I push their buttons". Reacts how, I can't say...but generally I think that people who are pushing for reactions - whether angry, emotional, outraged, whatever - get a sense of power from you giving the reaction they were hoping for. Or, at least, it makes them feel more visible.

 

Going back to something you said at the start of your post:

 

 

 

Yeah...that's zany. I think you can probably rest assured that she's not a typical 40 something.

 

Thanks again,

 

so what i'm thinking is that, yes I should not have put up with certain things and I probably should have ended it myself sooner, but when someone needs to push your buttons just to get a reaction that they want, I would think that that is drama? Am I correct? I didn't let her get away with everything, but after a while i just gave up and gave her no reaction other than understanding and I guess maybe that pissed her off? She needs that in her life? Maybe it's what she is use to.

[Taramere]

Thanks again,

 

so what i'm thinking is that, yes I should not have put up with certain things and I probably should have ended it myself sooner, but when someone needs to push your buttons just to get a reaction that they want, I would think that that is drama? Am I correct?

 

Well, I think so. Drama and control. When somebody is trying to manipulate and control you, they'll keep pushing different buttons to see what works...and when nothing works the way they want it to they go into meltdown. Often abusively.

 

It's another difference between conflict and drama. With conflict, you're more likely to be looking to negotiate with the other person rather than just twist them round to your will. People who do drama all the time are maybe more into control and manipulation. Drama is, after all, about pushing other people into roles that enhance yours. If somebody sees themselves as a victim, other people behaving like persecutors or rescuers enhances their sense of self.

 

You can say something similar about the other two roles. Persecutors can't be what they are without victims. Neither can rescuers. So if she doesn't have a very strong sense of who she is, maybe she needs a douche who will help her to create those dramas that provide some sort of identity - even if not a very healthy one.

[dumbass2]

Well, I think so. Drama and control. When somebody is trying to manipulate and control you, they'll keep pushing different buttons to see what works...and when nothing works the way they want it to they go into meltdown. Often abusively.

 

It's another difference between conflict and drama. With conflict, you're more likely to be looking to negotiate with the other person rather than just twist them round to your will. People who do drama all the time are maybe more into control and manipulation. Drama is, after all, about pushing other people into roles that enhance yours. If somebody sees themselves as a victim, other people behaving like persecutors or rescuers enhances their sense of self.

 

You can say something similar about the other two roles. Persecutors can't be what they are without victims. Neither can rescuers. So if she doesn't have a very strong sense of who she is, maybe she needs a douche who will help her to create those dramas that provide some sort of identity - even if not a very healthy one.

 

You're really helping a lot.

 

My friends are telling me that they feel I was man enough, but did let myself get a little manipulated at times because I did want things to work and that she needs a man that has maybe gone through more and can deal with someone like her and really put her in her place. I'm not that guy that wants to deal with that I guess. My friends say that she is a little overboard on the testing and manipulation and it might have to do with her past relationships. She is just into a new relationship and maybe this guy will put her in her place and not put up with what I did and it might help her come around and figure things out. As much as I really liked her, we were just not a good match at this time.

 

She told me early on that she likes to be adored and you should never say no. One of her favorite quotes is "when someone else's happiness is your happiness, that is love"

Edited September 1, 2014 by dumbass2

[TheBeckoningCat]

Sounds like you are a fine, normal fellow!

Some people (like your ex) are just totally into the drama!

If you're not into drama, you are so much better off finding a compatible, nice, easygoing person!

 

I strongly encourage you to google "Reignite the Fire" by Rick Reynolds, I think it will help you a lot to either deal with dramatic characters, or decide enough is enough!! (If the citation is inexact, let me know and I'll double check for you as I subscribe to his wise postings!!)

 

Best wishes,

Cat

[No Limit]

The actual jerks, losers, convicts, etc are usually with women who have little or no options.....so they drag these mutts off the curb and give them a shot...They think these mutts really care about them, all while they are digging up her Petunia's and shytting on her favorite living room sofa....so to speak...

 

Sadly, that is true. What I noticed the most when a friend of mine got back with her ex in bold right up there. She's financially pretty down and has no good prospects for a good-paying job either; and as of late, hasn't been even invited for an interview at all... at first she'd talk about the guy all the time how much he was helping her (they were texting endlessly), well, now that the "love" starts to fade away they are annoying each other.

 

I do like her but especially the circumstances how she got him back make me believe she has no integrity at all. Plus, she acted rather cold after I voiced my concern & when that dude snapped at me once (after I was invited to one of their chats) she told others it had been my fault, that I had provoked him (well guess what girl, if someone bad mouths me, he'll get the same treatment in return ). Friendship pulled back to aquaintance for me; yet she keeps calling every now and then wanting to talk about her troubles... meh.

 

Whoever and whatever you date, leave your friends out of your romances if you want to keep them.