The 11th Hour and D-Day is coming: Admissions of Fear

[Cressida]

It's comments like this that make me reflect back on this whole A.

 

I can tell you with no uncertainty that if i told mow to give her h the green light, she would tell him. she wants to make sure that I'm willing to do the same with my w. I am on the fence because of my kids and the oldest one (teen).

 

After 18 months I look back and i realize that this started out as two people who grew close and went from an A to now a full blown relationship, full blown 100% in.

 

I long to be with mow but the reality is, i struggle with the thought of leaving my kids. my daughter sat by me this evening and all i could think about was what it would be like if it wasn't there for her at that moment. how do people overcome the guilt! What's the secret???

 

As for mow, i am in love with her but she is not perfect. She represents risk..risk of age gap (15 plus years), risk of getting hurt in discussions and not talking to me all night......risk of not being in any past LTR except with her H..which i've had LTR's and know the risks, pain and joys of them..as well as mow never having lived a true adult single life which I have.

 

The pressure points are coming from mow. She's brought up a couple and she wants to plan this out. She needs that from me. When i speak with my W, i see someone who is so distant from me that she doesn't know me. All i am is a financial provider and a decision maker for the kids and home. We we are intimate and its great actually...but there's no emotions tying us except our kids. i'm like a father figure to her and i'll always be that.

 

btw she's a SAHM as well. So if i were to leave, the news would be devastating. This is why i thought about mow and if she does tell her and and they start a separation process, she will be single for 6 months. During that time, we will be an time privately as we are now. I just see her taking on a new job hopefully soon, new role and actually being single for the first time in her adult like, liking it. If i left my w for her now or shortly after she told her H, i would be taking a huge gamble that she would change her mind and regret her and I. not worth it.

 

i feel stuck....like i have to let the circumstances play out. The speed and acceleration of the A matured so quickly it became a LTR before I knew it. All i could tell was it was like a baby that grew up to be a full child and demanding more time of me. its been a long and lonely ride at this point.

 

 

Your thread made me log into just for the sake of writing a reply. I am a former OW myself, my MM wanted to divorce but i decided it was better for us to end it and stay friends. We're very close now, and I am happy with how everything turned out. I am saying this because a while ago I posted some messages and I think I came off as a bit loony at that time, which I no longer am.

 

My two cents about your issue- YOU opened it for discussion, remember. We've all been into this.

 

Before seeing you were an established Loveshack member, I thought you were just trolling. There are no words to describe the surprise, appalling-ness and weirdness one feels when reading your messages.

 

You are a grown man. You're not a baby. You're not a little child, there comes a time in our lives when we must take responsibility for our actions, as in finding a way to solve the problem.

 

What is your problem here, according to what you yourself wrote? That you don't know how to get rid of your OW. Simply put, this is how it emanates from your words.

 

I don't understand why you rationalize so much- you don't want to have the feeling that you're leaving your children, you don't want your wife to suffer hardship as she's been a homemaker all her life, or worse, for her to meet someone else, and bottom line you don't want the OW to leave you in a few years when you believe you'll be much too old to sustain your relationship and she'd be tempted to cheat on you.

 

I honestly see that what you are asking for is 'how to get rid of the OW'. If this is what you want, I will tell you my honest opinion, as a former OW.

 

You have this woman's life in your hands and this is no game. Romance and rosy lenses might seem to be, but fights, serious stuff like divorce, a family's livelihood, these things aren't. You are GAMBLING with this woman's life and you know it, and yet you keep complaining about YOUR dissatisfaction with YOUR options.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome to what you predict? Maybe, let's assume, she won't take it lightly and may go tell your wife everything because she'd be LEAVING her husband for you? I capitalized 'leaving' for a reason- maybe she wants to now, but you're the red button that would cause the chain reaction, like you said yourself. She hasn't yet left- for a reason. She needs a safety blanket just like you do. Just like another comment BEAUTIFULLY put it- why are you so special, your needs, your family, your children, and not her/hers? Think about this.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome in terms of how her husband would react? You don't know how people react in this type of situation, we can't even count on ourselves when the crunch time comes. What if he gets violent? What if he goes and tells everything to your wife? What if he has the power to hurt you at work?

 

Have you ever thought that maybe she doesn't deserve this? Why do you want to make this woman leave her family if you won't? Do you honestly think it will be BETTER for her as a single parent/grownup, going through a divorce AND being dumped by the guy she divorced for, because she'd 'enjoy being single', 'work and focus on herself'?

 

I honestly do not wish, under any shape or form, to sound like I know it all (God knows I absolutely don't), but in this particular case, I cannot help at wonder- what is wrong with some people who are middle aged or adults and seem to have the intelligence of a four year-old.

 

Seriously, dude. Really now. Do you even realize how bad everything you wrote sounds? It's far worse than a MM throwing a mistress under the bus- at least he's into his problem-solving mode and the primitive instinct of self-preservation has kicked in. But you are PLANNING on it, at the expense of HER OWN decision?

 

I can't find the words to tell you how wrong you are, what a huge mistake you are committing. What a pity, and what a sin you are staining your hands with. 'Sin' not in the religious sense, but in the human civilization one- you are inflicting some serious premeditated sh*t on someone you profess you love and care about.

 

My two cents- wake up. Don't let her gamble her life away as the consequences WILL be dire. I would have had a hard time forgiving my MM had he thrown me under the bus, but nothing, and I mean nothing, and I must stress yet again, absolutely nothing on this planet would have saved him from my wrath if he did anything remotely similar to what you're saying, basically tacitly agreeing that I leave my family to dump me afterwards.

 

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned, and I predict you aren't quite sensing this yet. Be aware, be very aware.

 

Don't play, don't be selfish. You split the hair in 16 here with your own feelings, kids, family, wife's sex drive or lack thereof, yet nothing about the OW.

 

Do you want to know how to save your selfish a**, cause my friend, you will need to?

 

Leave the OW alone. Be completely honest with her, tell her about your concerns. Tell her about your children Be 100% honest, don't even think of taking the risk of NOT saying it all. Keeping stuff away IS lying, look it up.

 

IF and only IF she still insists she independently wants to leave her marriage, make it clear you don't want to get involved immediately after. She'll say ok, go home, sleep on it, and two weeks from then you'll see how she's slowly changing her mind.

 

Be fair and give this woman the same treatment you would like to be given. Be honest, don't hold her hand while she puts the rope around her own neck, because the consequences can be dire for you in ways you don't even imagine.

 

It saddens me to see you are actually downright cruel, you'd actually get rid of her after she divorces. It's heartbreaking, nobody deserves this.

 

Just be honest with her and this will give you the inner peace you long for as well (although you clearly don't deserve it).

[bathtub-row]

My two cents- wake up. Don't let her gamble her life away as the consequences WILL be dire. I would have had a hard time forgiving my MM had he thrown me under the bus, but nothing, and I mean nothing, and I must stress yet again, absolutely nothing on this planet would have saved him from my wrath if he did anything remotely similar to what you're saying, basically tacitly agreeing that I leave my family to dump me afterwards.

 

I completely agree with everything you said, and especially this. If my xMM had lied to me, caused me to believe something that wasn't true, and had not backed me in situations where he could've thrown me under the bus, he and I would not be on the good terms we're on today...not even close.

 

What OP is doing to this OW is the worst form of selfishness I've seen in a long time; and the outcome will not be good. For anyone.

[conflictedlove]

I completely agree with everything you said, and especially this. If my xMM had lied to me, caused me to believe something that wasn't true, and had not backed me in situations where he could've thrown me under the bus, he and I would not be on the good terms we're on today...not even close.

 

Hi Bathtub,

 

Thank you for your post and reply.

 

Wait, are you saying you and your xmm are actually cordial and still speak with each other? is this ok with both spouses or how did you exactly get this to work out as such?

 

I do believe it takes a mature person to love someone to no end where they can be respectful and cordial with their ex significant other. That's rare but it does happen!

 

I would like to know more about how you and your xmm can still be cordial and friends in light of your spouses?

[FusionCutter]

It's comments like this that make me reflect back on this whole A.

 

I can tell you with no uncertainty that if i told mow to give her h the green light, she would tell him. she wants to make sure that I'm willing to do the same with my w. I am on the fence because of my kids and the oldest one (teen).

 

After 18 months I look back and i realize that this started out as two people who grew close and went from an A to now a full blown relationship, full blown 100% in.

 

I long to be with mow but the reality is, i struggle with the thought of leaving my kids. my daughter sat by me this evening and all i could think about was what it would be like if it wasn't there for her at that moment. how do people overcome the guilt! What's the secret???

 

As for mow, i am in love with her but she is not perfect. She represents risk..risk of age gap (15 plus years), risk of getting hurt in discussions and not talking to me all night......risk of not being in any past LTR except with her H..which i've had LTR's and know the risks, pain and joys of them..as well as mow never having lived a true adult single life which I have.

 

The pressure points are coming from mow. She's brought up a couple and she wants to plan this out. She needs that from me. When i speak with my W, i see someone who is so distant from me that she doesn't know me. All i am is a financial provider and a decision maker for the kids and home. We we are intimate and its great actually...but there's no emotions tying us except our kids. i'm like a father figure to her and i'll always be that.

 

btw she's a SAHM as well. So if i were to leave, the news would be devastating. This is why i thought about mow and if she does tell her and and they start a separation process, she will be single for 6 months. During that time, we will be an time privately as we are now. I just see her taking on a new job hopefully soon, new role and actually being single for the first time in her adult like, liking it. If i left my w for her now or shortly after she told her H, i would be taking a huge gamble that she would change her mind and regret her and I. not worth it.

 

i feel stuck....like i have to let the circumstances play out. The speed and acceleration of the A matured so quickly it became a LTR before I knew it. All i could tell was it was like a baby that grew up to be a full child and demanding more time of me. its been a long and lonely ride at this point.

 

 

Your thread made me log into just for the sake of writing a reply. I am a former OW myself, my MM wanted to divorce but i decided it was better for us to end it and stay friends. We're very close now, and I am happy with how everything turned out. I am saying this because a while ago I posted some messages and I think I came off as a bit loony at that time, which I no longer am.

 

My two cents about your issue- YOU opened it for discussion, remember. We've all been into this.

 

Before seeing you were an established Loveshack member, I thought you were just trolling. There are no words to describe the surprise, appalling-ness and weirdness one feels when reading your messages.

 

You are a grown man. You're not a baby. You're not a little child, there comes a time in our lives when we must take responsibility for our actions, as in finding a way to solve the problem.

 

What is your problem here, according to what you yourself wrote? That you don't know how to get rid of your OW. Simply put, this is how it emanates from your words.

 

I don't understand why you rationalize so much- you don't want to have the feeling that you're leaving your children, you don't want your wife to suffer hardship as she's been a homemaker all her life, or worse, for her to meet someone else, and bottom line you don't want the OW to leave you in a few years when you believe you'll be much too old to sustain your relationship and she'd be tempted to cheat on you.

 

I honestly see that what you are asking for is 'how to get rid of the OW'. If this is what you want, I will tell you my honest opinion, as a former OW.

 

You have this woman's life in your hands and this is no game. Romance and rosy lenses might seem to be, but fights, serious stuff like divorce, a family's livelihood, these things aren't. You are GAMBLING with this woman's life and you know it, and yet you keep complaining about YOUR dissatisfaction with YOUR options.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome to what you predict? Maybe, let's assume, she won't take it lightly and may go tell your wife everything because she'd be LEAVING her husband for you? I capitalized 'leaving' for a reason- maybe she wants to now, but you're the red button that would cause the chain reaction, like you said yourself. She hasn't yet left- for a reason. She needs a safety blanket just like you do. Just like another comment BEAUTIFULLY put it- why are you so special, your needs, your family, your children, and not her/hers? Think about this.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome in terms of how her husband would react? You don't know how people react in this type of situation, we can't even count on ourselves when the crunch time comes. What if he gets violent? What if he goes and tells everything to your wife? What if he has the power to hurt you at work?

 

Have you ever thought that maybe she doesn't deserve this? Why do you want to make this woman leave her family if you won't? Do you honestly think it will be BETTER for her as a single parent/grownup, going through a divorce AND being dumped by the guy she divorced for, because she'd 'enjoy being single', 'work and focus on herself'?

 

I honestly do not wish, under any shape or form, to sound like I know it all (God knows I absolutely don't), but in this particular case, I cannot help at wonder- what is wrong with some people who are middle aged or adults and seem to have the intelligence of a four year-old.

 

Seriously, dude. Really now. Do you even realize how bad everything you wrote sounds? It's far worse than a MM throwing a mistress under the bus- at least he's into his problem-solving mode and the primitive instinct of self-preservation has kicked in. But you are PLANNING on it, at the expense of HER OWN decision?

 

I can't find the words to tell you how wrong you are, what a huge mistake you are committing. What a pity, and what a sin you are staining your hands with. 'Sin' not in the religious sense, but in the human civilization one- you are inflicting some serious premeditated sh*t on someone you profess you love and care about.

 

My two cents- wake up. Don't let her gamble her life away as the consequences WILL be dire. I would have had a hard time forgiving my MM had he thrown me under the bus, but nothing, and I mean nothing, and I must stress yet again, absolutely nothing on this planet would have saved him from my wrath if he did anything remotely similar to what you're saying, basically tacitly agreeing that I leave my family to dump me afterwards.

 

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned, and I predict you aren't quite sensing this yet. Be aware, be very aware.

 

Don't play, don't be selfish. You split the hair in 16 here with your own feelings, kids, family, wife's sex drive or lack thereof, yet nothing about the OW.

 

Do you want to know how to save your selfish a**, cause my friend, you will need to?

 

Leave the OW alone. Be completely honest with her, tell her about your concerns. Tell her about your children Be 100% honest, don't even think of taking the risk of NOT saying it all. Keeping stuff away IS lying, look it up.

 

IF and only IF she still insists she independently wants to leave her marriage, make it clear you don't want to get involved immediately after. She'll say ok, go home, sleep on it, and two weeks from then you'll see how she's slowly changing her mind.

 

Be fair and give this woman the same treatment you would like to be given. Be honest, don't hold her hand while she puts the rope around her own neck, because the consequences can be dire for you in ways you don't even imagine.

 

It saddens me to see you are actually downright cruel, you'd actually get rid of her after she divorces. It's heartbreaking, nobody deserves this.

 

Just be honest with her and this will give you the inner peace you long for as well (although you clearly don't deserve it).

 

Bravo. There's nothing more to talk about after this.

[conflictedlove]

It's comments like this that make me reflect back on this whole A.

 

I can tell you with no uncertainty that if i told mow to give her h the green light, she would tell him. she wants to make sure that I'm willing to do the same with my w. I am on the fence because of my kids and the oldest one (teen).

 

After 18 months I look back and i realize that this started out as two people who grew close and went from an A to now a full blown relationship, full blown 100% in.

 

I long to be with mow but the reality is, i struggle with the thought of leaving my kids. my daughter sat by me this evening and all i could think about was what it would be like if it wasn't there for her at that moment. how do people overcome the guilt! What's the secret???

 

As for mow, i am in love with her but she is not perfect. She represents risk..risk of age gap (15 plus years), risk of getting hurt in discussions and not talking to me all night......risk of not being in any past LTR except with her H..which i've had LTR's and know the risks, pain and joys of them..as well as mow never having lived a true adult single life which I have.

 

The pressure points are coming from mow. She's brought up a couple and she wants to plan this out. She needs that from me. When i speak with my W, i see someone who is so distant from me that she doesn't know me. All i am is a financial provider and a decision maker for the kids and home. We we are intimate and its great actually...but there's no emotions tying us except our kids. i'm like a father figure to her and i'll always be that.

 

btw she's a SAHM as well. So if i were to leave, the news would be devastating. This is why i thought about mow and if she does tell her and and they start a separation process, she will be single for 6 months. During that time, we will be an time privately as we are now. I just see her taking on a new job hopefully soon, new role and actually being single for the first time in her adult like, liking it. If i left my w for her now or shortly after she told her H, i would be taking a huge gamble that she would change her mind and regret her and I. not worth it.

 

i feel stuck....like i have to let the circumstances play out. The speed and acceleration of the A matured so quickly it became a LTR before I knew it. All i could tell was it was like a baby that grew up to be a full child and demanding more time of me. its been a long and lonely ride at this point.

 

 

Your thread made me log into just for the sake of writing a reply. I am a former OW myself, my MM wanted to divorce but i decided it was better for us to end it and stay friends. We're very close now, and I am happy with how everything turned out. I am saying this because a while ago I posted some messages and I think I came off as a bit loony at that time, which I no longer am.

 

My two cents about your issue- YOU opened it for discussion, remember. We've all been into this.

 

Before seeing you were an established Loveshack member, I thought you were just trolling. There are no words to describe the surprise, appalling-ness and weirdness one feels when reading your messages.

 

You are a grown man. You're not a baby. You're not a little child, there comes a time in our lives when we must take responsibility for our actions, as in finding a way to solve the problem.

 

What is your problem here, according to what you yourself wrote? That you don't know how to get rid of your OW. Simply put, this is how it emanates from your words.

 

I don't understand why you rationalize so much- you don't want to have the feeling that you're leaving your children, you don't want your wife to suffer hardship as she's been a homemaker all her life, or worse, for her to meet someone else, and bottom line you don't want the OW to leave you in a few years when you believe you'll be much too old to sustain your relationship and she'd be tempted to cheat on you.

 

I honestly see that what you are asking for is 'how to get rid of the OW'. If this is what you want, I will tell you my honest opinion, as a former OW.

 

You have this woman's life in your hands and this is no game. Romance and rosy lenses might seem to be, but fights, serious stuff like divorce, a family's livelihood, these things aren't. You are GAMBLING with this woman's life and you know it, and yet you keep complaining about YOUR dissatisfaction with YOUR options.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome to what you predict? Maybe, let's assume, she won't take it lightly and may go tell your wife everything because she'd be LEAVING her husband for you? I capitalized 'leaving' for a reason- maybe she wants to now, but you're the red button that would cause the chain reaction, like you said yourself. She hasn't yet left- for a reason. She needs a safety blanket just like you do. Just like another comment BEAUTIFULLY put it- why are you so special, your needs, your family, your children, and not her/hers? Think about this.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome in terms of how her husband would react? You don't know how people react in this type of situation, we can't even count on ourselves when the crunch time comes. What if he gets violent? What if he goes and tells everything to your wife? What if he has the power to hurt you at work?

 

Have you ever thought that maybe she doesn't deserve this? Why do you want to make this woman leave her family if you won't? Do you honestly think it will be BETTER for her as a single parent/grownup, going through a divorce AND being dumped by the guy she divorced for, because she'd 'enjoy being single', 'work and focus on herself'?

 

I honestly do not wish, under any shape or form, to sound like I know it all (God knows I absolutely don't), but in this particular case, I cannot help at wonder- what is wrong with some people who are middle aged or adults and seem to have the intelligence of a four year-old.

 

Seriously, dude. Really now. Do you even realize how bad everything you wrote sounds? It's far worse than a MM throwing a mistress under the bus- at least he's into his problem-solving mode and the primitive instinct of self-preservation has kicked in. But you are PLANNING on it, at the expense of HER OWN decision?

 

I can't find the words to tell you how wrong you are, what a huge mistake you are committing. What a pity, and what a sin you are staining your hands with. 'Sin' not in the religious sense, but in the human civilization one- you are inflicting some serious premeditated sh*t on someone you profess you love and care about.

 

My two cents- wake up. Don't let her gamble her life away as the consequences WILL be dire. I would have had a hard time forgiving my MM had he thrown me under the bus, but nothing, and I mean nothing, and I must stress yet again, absolutely nothing on this planet would have saved him from my wrath if he did anything remotely similar to what you're saying, basically tacitly agreeing that I leave my family to dump me afterwards.

 

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned, and I predict you aren't quite sensing this yet. Be aware, be very aware.

 

Don't play, don't be selfish. You split the hair in 16 here with your own feelings, kids, family, wife's sex drive or lack thereof, yet nothing about the OW.

 

Do you want to know how to save your selfish a**, cause my friend, you will need to?

 

Leave the OW alone. Be completely honest with her, tell her about your concerns. Tell her about your children Be 100% honest, don't even think of taking the risk of NOT saying it all. Keeping stuff away IS lying, look it up.

 

IF and only IF she still insists she independently wants to leave her marriage, make it clear you don't want to get involved immediately after. She'll say ok, go home, sleep on it, and two weeks from then you'll see how she's slowly changing her mind.

 

Be fair and give this woman the same treatment you would like to be given. Be honest, don't hold her hand while she puts the rope around her own neck, because the consequences can be dire for you in ways you don't even imagine.

 

It saddens me to see you are actually downright cruel, you'd actually get rid of her after she divorces. It's heartbreaking, nobody deserves this.

 

Just be honest with her and this will give you the inner peace you long for as well (although you clearly don't deserve it).

 

Hi Cressida,

 

Thank you for your sincerity and genuine words.

 

I am taking back by what you wrote. I don't have the perspective from the x ow or xmow often so I always pay attention and read 3-4 times the words chosen..for they are with intent.

 

I do love my mow..make no mistake about it....but yes, you are correct...she wants to leave her H for me and me do the same. I really want to but honestly, as you said, the age factor, is that not a real concern coming from an xow such as yourself? And to add, we had planned on 6 months not coming out and telling anyone so we had a chance to heal through our independent separations from our spouses. the problem i find in that is that we never would get a chance to heal and learn more about what we brought to the marriage that caused it to self destruct as well as decide who and what really want!

 

It's one thing to take someone because we no one..its another to choose someone because its the right person. That is what keeps me up at night.

 

Mow or her h won't consult with my w since mow won't tell her h she's leaving him for me. she wants to tell him its over she doesn't love him. period. no mention of me. She feels she was going to leave him any, but our relationship accelerated the decision. See, that sounds like not wanting to move unless she has a safety net which also leads me to believe she wouldn't leave him unless she had a safety net. that's just not very independent thinking.

 

i'm torn..im being totally honest....its killing me more than you know. my kids make such a huge difference.....wanting to be there for them when they have different after school events...my w is distant and cold yet mow is very needy with me..one relationship backfills the other.

 

I know that mow needs to leave her h because she doesn't love him and he's just weak. i don't want her to leave him because of me. i want her to leave him inspite of me and they have counseling coming up so who knows, if she decides to give it another try, then the truth comes out and i have to step back and respect her wishes. Sure, i don't like the idea of her h having her again but if its what she needs or finds she needs to really try before she leaves, i will support her.

 

I'm not sure you can be cordial with your xmm since most women can't.

[meandmycats]

Your kids will have no respect for you when they find out who their Father really is underneath all the attempts at literary 'grandiloquence', that is the REALITY of it all.

 

 

You have no REAL relationship with your wife, your other woman, or your children. Your only relationship is internal and subject to your own needs.

 

 

Yuk, I wouldn't want to be that person in a million years...

 

 

Now I must agree with the majority and I hope those who have really put some solid, heart felt sagacity into their posts to try to help you make a decision will release their frustration with your situation and STOP posting.

 

 

Good luck.

[Cressida]

1. ‘the age factor, is that not a real concern coming from an xow such as yourself’

 

My exMM was almost 30 years older than me, in his mid 50’s, and a dang sexy man. He had even had a major health scare a few years before I met him, which would’ve translated into me becoming a ‘nurse’ much earlier than I wanted to. I’m in my early 30’s (very early). I didn’t think about this at all in the beginning, but then I considered it. And I came to the conclusion that it doesn’t really matter. If the man is in ok health, and the relationship is perfectly fine, there should be no reason for the thing not to work. My MM was in great shape when I met him despite his previous issues. I knew that by the time he hits 65, let’s say, our sex life would probably be 80% non-existent, but I didn’t care. We were very passionate and open about our sexuality with each other that nothing would have made me balk. I truly loved him and thought everything through and his age was the least important aspect on the list so to speak.

 

2. ‘I do love my mow..make no mistake about it....but yes, you are correct...she wants to leave her H for me and me do the same.(…) we had planned on 6 months not coming out and telling anyone so we had a chance to heal through our independent separations from our spouses. the problem i find in that is that we never would get a chance to heal and learn more about what we brought to the marriage that caused it to self destruct as well as decide who and what really want! ‘

 

Personally, I VERY strongly believe that divorcing and only THEN realizing ‘who you really want’ is a big mistake, not to say an utterly idiotic thing to do. I do not wish to insult you so I apologize for any harsh words, but you must understand that it is very weird and unexpected to see such thinking coming from a grown man like yourself. You cannot first divorce, and THEN ‘think about it’, it doesn’t work like this. Particularly, and I would like to stress this, as it is HER who would be doing this.

 

You aren’t even considering divorcing/leaving your wife, but are 100% ok with her divorcing and THEN thinking about what she wants, who she is and other crap like that.

 

This is wrong. Even if you think she’d want to leave her husband either way, if you aren’t willing to ‘foot the bill’ and take responsibility, that is none of your business, since you also say you don’t want her to do it because of you.

What I understand from your contradicting statements is that you want her to leave i.e. do whatever she feels is best for her, as you love her and you don’t want her to be unhappy. However you don’t want her to demand the same from you (leaving your wife etc.) because you’re not ready to do it, due to various reasons.

 

You MUST tell her all these things. You cannot hide such important aspects because believe me, no woman who divorced her husband, is lonely, probably eying the bottle/bars/going out/any form of ‘addiction’ (it could happen, to cope with the changes), will 100% understand that you need ‘time’ to ‘cope’ and ‘discover’ if she’s the one you want….it just doesn’t happen this way. She’ll throw herself in your arms as she did it for you, believe me. Even if she may not be 1000% convinced that you guys will be together forever , she is certainly expecting SOMETHING from you after her divorce. That is absolutely true and I can bet my life on it, despite not knowing your OW or you at all. It is how things usually work, it’s logical.

 

3. ‘Mow or her h won't consult with my w since mow won't tell her h she's leaving him for me’

 

I perfectly agree with you, however she won’t tell him NOW. After the air clears up and she has to deal with papers, money loss, friends and family, she WILL expect some support from you. And then she will expect that you do or at least say something to make up for it, in some sort of way. This is how the human minds and hearts work, don’t doubt it. She wouldn’t be leaving her husband if it wasn’t for you. You said so yourself. And she wouldn’t have gotten to the point of wanting to leave her husband if it wasn’t for you. Therefore, you WILL be held accountable, mark my words. Perhaps I sound too Mother Goose-y, but I can tell you I felt this way with my MM, and from what you can read here, pretty much all women posting feel the same way.

Plus, how do you really know what’s going to happen after she tells him? How do you know, better said, what she tells him? You aren’t telling her everything either. Don’t count on this, is not a safe expectation.

 

4. See, that sounds like not wanting to move unless she has a safety net which also leads me to believe she wouldn't leave him unless she had a safety net. that's just not very independent thinking

 

You’re being a bit of a Captain Obvious here. Of course she’s leaving him because she thinks that you are her safety net. 80% of her decision is based on this alone, I reckon. That’s not independent thinking? Why would anyone consider divorce if it wasn’t for a non-independent motive? Except for cases of abuse, etc., why would they divorce? In this day and age, leaving a husband and a family for the sole reason that he doesn’t act like you’re on the first day and doesn’t give you the tingles is no longer doable. There has to be strong feelings from her to want to take the step, particularly if her only problem in her marriage is stagnation, boredom etc. and not something serious, like he is a bad father or he mistreats her, etc.

 

5. It's one thing to take someone because we no one..its another to choose someone because its the right person. That is what keeps me up at night

 

So basically you don’t think she’s ‘the one’, that’s why you won’t take the plunge. You don’t want to leave your marriage either, for the same reason. Even if she was ‘the right person’ and you’d be 100 % sure, you’d still have second thoughts because of your kids and your wife’s livelihood. You are also saying you ‘took her’ because you didn’t have anyone else.

This is very wrong, because it means you were just enjoying the good aspects and the lustful part of the affair while she invested much more of herself in it. It’s wrong to depart on the wrong foot (you, half foot in, her, up to her neck) and expect things to magically be ok.

Please do yourself and HER a favor. If you love this woman, be honest with her. Don’t take something as dreadful as running her life onto you. Just tell her what you told us here, and she will understand you aren’t 100% committed. It’s better than allowing her to leave her husband for you and then suffer the consequences. She’d take it much better if you are honest now, and perhaps she even gets to change her mind about divorcing, than to have her throw everything away and then regret it.

Doesn’t she also have kids to think about, like you do? Wouldn’t she be risking it all? Please don’t be selfish. WHY won’t you put yourself in her shoes? Why can’t you see how horrible it would be if the tables were turned and you were in her place? How would you like it to find out that after you divorced, left ur wife and had to go through the emotional turmoil with the kids and all that, only then you’d find out that she never wanted this 100%, and she isn’t 100% in it? You’d resent her for the rest of your life and probably want some revenge.

She could even tell your wife and testify in court against you, in the eventuality of a divorce in your family. I’d do it in a heartbeat, and it wouldn’t even begin to touch the tip of the iceberg of what I’d do if put in this situation.

 

6. i'm torn..im being totally honest....its killing me more than you know. my kids make such a huge difference.....wanting to be there for them when they have different after school events...my w is distant and cold yet mow is very needy with me..one relationship backfills the other

 

You’d still be with your kids, this isn’t the 20’s Soviet Russia. Don’t go berserk over it, it isn’t something one cannot deal with. However if you don’t want to do it, and if it’s too much for you, just tell her, be honest, and just explain things as they are. I don’t understand how you can have such a close relationship with someone as to imagine a life with them yet at the same time be unable to discuss such basic aspects.

 

7. I know that mow needs to leave her h because she doesn't love him and he's just weak

 

Whoa there! Wait a second! With all due respect, who gives you the right to pass judgment on what she NEEDS to do? You may know her and her marriage better than anyone else here on the forum, granted, but why do you adopt this attitude and make such judgments when you don’t really know what happens behind closed doors? And even if he was weak, you can’t say what she needs or doesn’t need to. And if you don’t want to assume the responsibility of her leaving her husband for you, why do you even care?

It seems to me you are an incredibly selfish human being and a selfish man, which are incredibly unattractive qualities in a partner of any sort. How can you say that she has to divorce when you wouldn’t even consider leaving your homemaker wife? Is your wife strong? Does she deserve to be kept as a wife? Why don’t you look in your own back yard before saying stuff like this about other people?

Come on, man. You simply don’t want this woman to be with her husband because you get the thrills knowing she’d divorce for you. You have a track record of affairs and stuff, and even if you love the people you got yourself involved with (I am not questioning this), you never did anything about it but preferred to keep things as they are. Don’t be selfish to the T, just tell her the truth, how hard can it be? You discuss marriage, divorce and you can’t talk about such basic aspects, that’s what confuses me.

 

8. i want her to leave him inspite of me

 

Pardon me, but if she doesn’t leave him because of you, nothing else is your business. Why do you want this woman to leave her husband, just to prove yourself right? She may not love him but the termination of her marriage would bring forth a lot of problems she won’t be able to handle 100% scot-free. Please understand this isn’t a popularity contest or ‘whose is bigger’. This is her life. Don’t be like this, it isn’t good, it makes you look very bad.

I had the same attitude and hated my MM’s wife with all my heart. I did believe and still think she’s an awful person. But pointlessly divorcing her, f*cking up the balance of the family, the community, the common friends etc would’ve ruined him, and I certainly didn’t want this.

 

9. How xOWs stay friends with MMs-….because I was fair to both of us. I loved him and I saw no reason why we shouldn’t care for each other. I didn’t want him to divorce, then spend a lifetime looking at me and secretly resenting me despite loving me. We were adults about it. We still love each other and I will always care about him in ways you don’t even imagine, but I could’ve never accepted he got tormented or hurt or lost his peace of mind because of me. Please try to see my reasoning and adopt it with your MW. If you truly love her, that is. Just don’t be selfish!

[Cressida]

I think you have to tell her not to divorce for you, and be honest. This is the top and paramount priority for you in the relationship with her, at this point.

 

It is the same feeling I had. It wasn't a matter of 'don't divorce for me, I don't love you enough', it was a matter of 'yes, do it. I'll marry you tomorrow. But can you handle the consequences? Can you be happy knowing your kids are judging you, your family lost its reputation, your friends and acquaintances speak behind your back? Can you do this, at your age? If you can, I am 100% with you in it. If you can't, I 100% understand'.

 

And he chose to stay in the marriage, despite being heartbroken that we weren't a couple anymore after this. He knew that at his age, he couldn't survive an earthquake of such proportions and be 100% ok with everything. He knew he'd resent me. There are high differences between your case and mine, but I wanted him to do what was best for him, as I had nothing to lose. I couldn't live with a man who regretted what he did.

I ended our relationship because I didn't want to be a OW anymore, and because I wanted to have a normal life. Just like I understood him, he understood me.

That's how we are very good friends and everything turned out fine. Believe me, it can turn out fine for everyone despite existing theories that it can't. But you have to be 100% non-selfish, 100% realistic, and 100% honest. You just have to, there is no other way. I am happy now because I still have him in my life and I am tremendously happy about it, and he feels the same way.

[FusionCutter]

I think you have to tell her not to divorce for you, and be honest. This is the top and paramount priority for you in the relationship with her, at this point.

 

It is the same feeling I had. It wasn't a matter of 'don't divorce for me, I don't love you enough', it was a matter of 'yes, do it. I'll marry you tomorrow. But can you handle the consequences? Can you be happy knowing your kids are judging you, your family lost its reputation, your friends and acquaintances speak behind your back? Can you do this, at your age? If you can, I am 100% with you in it. If you can't, I 100% understand'.

 

And he chose to stay in the marriage, despite being heartbroken that we weren't a couple anymore after this. He knew that at his age, he couldn't survive an earthquake of such proportions and be 100% ok with everything. He knew he'd resent me. There are high differences between your case and mine, but I wanted him to do what was best for him, as I had nothing to lose. I couldn't live with a man who regretted what he did.

I ended our relationship because I didn't want to be a OW anymore, and because I wanted to have a normal life. Just like I understood him, he understood me.

That's how we are very good friends and everything turned out fine. Believe me, it can turn out fine for everyone despite existing theories that it can't. But you have to be 100% non-selfish, 100% realistic, and 100% honest. You just have to, there is no other way. I am happy now because I still have him in my life and I am tremendously happy about it, and he feels the same way.

 

What's the extent of the relationship like. How do you still "have him in your life?"

[Cressida]

What's the extent of the relationship like. How do you still "have him in your life?"

 

 

We are identically the same minus getting intimate. We speak for hours some days, for just a few minutes some others. We text, we chat, we call on the phone, share photos etc. He asked me not to tell him if I ever date someone, in the sense of not to tell him details, but he's ok in theory with me being able to have a life in this regard. He is the same person he was, listens to me, shares things with me, gives me advice, helps me, I listen to him, etc. We also meet but not too often.

 

Because of my business relationship with him, his wife knows we chat and that we're friends. So there's no resentment, bad blood, nothing of the sort. He would come running at 3 am if I needed him for anything and I'd do the same for him. However I don't want to make this about me and my story and derail the whole point of the thread.

[FusionCutter]

We are identically the same minus getting intimate. We speak for hours some days, for just a few minutes some others. We text, we chat, we call on the phone, share photos etc. He asked me not to tell him if I ever date someone, in the sense of not to tell him details, but he's ok in theory with me being able to have a life in this regard. He is the same person he was, listens to me, shares things with me, gives me advice, helps me, I listen to him, etc. We also meet but not too often.

 

Because of my business relationship with him, his wife knows we chat and that we're friends. So there's no resentment, bad blood, nothing of the sort. He would come running at 3 am if I needed him for anything and I'd do the same for him. However I don't want to make this about me and my story and derail the whole point of the thread.

 

You're still in an affair. It's just emotional now.

[Cressida]

You're still in an affair. It's just emotional now.

 

Perhaps, I don't know. But we keep the conversations friendly, he knows i love him and i always will, but it is slowly becoming a sort of a 'not in that way'. I think it's the same for him, since he decided to stay married.

 

Anyway we are both happy with how things turned out and I am perfectly ok with it. If things get cooler between us, that's perfectly ok. I know that the best way to get over an affair is NC, but i wanted him to stay my friend and he wanted the same. There was no other way to accomplish this. Plus, I'm single so perhaps things will change once I meet someone. I will always care about him and be there for him, even when I'm married with 3 kids (that doesn't mean i'll have an affair with him, just that i really do see him as a big part of my life, and i can't give him up.)

[beach]

We are identically the same minus getting intimate. We speak for hours some days, for just a few minutes some others. We text, we chat, we call on the phone, share photos etc. He asked me not to tell him if I ever date someone, in the sense of not to tell him details, but he's ok in theory with me being able to have a life in this regard. He is the same person he was, listens to me, shares things with me, gives me advice, helps me, I listen to him, etc. We also meet but not too often.

 

Because of my business relationship with him, his wife knows we chat and that we're friends. So there's no resentment, bad blood, nothing of the sort. He would come running at 3 am if I needed him for anything and I'd do the same for him. However I don't want to make this about me and my story and derail the whole point of the thread.

 

 

Not intending to offend:

 

Does he give you money?

 

Your thread from a year ago states your unhappiness with your MM.

 

Now you paint him as great. But you've had to compromise your expectations and happiness to stay in this lopsided affair.

 

Sorry to sidetrack OP - Cress - maybe start your own thread.

Edited October 22, 2014 by beach

[Cressida]

Not intending to offend:

 

Does he give you money?

 

Your thread from a year ago states your unhappiness with your MM.

 

Now you paint him as great. But you've had to compromise your expectations and happiness to stay in this lopsided affair.

 

Sorry to sidetrack OP - Cress - maybe start your own thread.

 

I was indeed very unhappy at times, as I could never figure out his violent reactions to certain things. He never got abusive in any form, but lashed out for the smallest of things.

 

Either way, we 'sorted it out' and it turned out he was thinking I'd leave him for another, younger man. Go figure!

He did help me financially with many important aspects ever since, as I openly discussed this issue with him. But I never wanted him for the money only.

 

Yes, it's not ok for this thread to focus on my story. Perhaps i will indeed open a new one

[bathtub-row]

Hi Bathtub,

 

Thank you for your post and reply.

 

Wait, are you saying you and your xmm are actually cordial and still speak with each other? is this ok with both spouses or how did you exactly get this to work out as such?

 

I do believe it takes a mature person to love someone to no end where they can be respectful and cordial with their ex significant other. That's rare but it does happen!

 

I would like to know more about how you and your xmm can still be cordial and friends in light of your spouses?

 

I don't have a spouse and xMM's wife knows nothing about us. Whether he feels it's a betrayal to his wife to talk to me at this point is really his decision, not mine. What he does or doesn't do in his marriage is none of my concern anymore. We both knew that if we continued the affair, we would end up hating one another. I did not want to be an OW and he wasn't going to divorce his wife. Stalemate.

 

The attraction between us is almost palpable and if put in a room alone together, sparks fly. On the day-to-day basis, though, I have learned to control those feelings. I don't hurt for him anymore and I have no hope whatsoever that he and I will ever be together. Understand, it took yrs for me to get to this point. He's the owner of the company I work at and I'm trying very hard to get away from there. He's in another city but I see him via video conference meetings at least a couple of times/wk.

 

When he's in town, we go to dinner and talk for hours (this is about 2 or 3 times/yr). Last Christmas at the company party, I showed up with a date and that drove him nuts, although he never let me see this, of course. He epitomizes the cool and collected executive. My only clue about what he was feeling was when a bunch of us were saying goodbye in the parking lot, he hugged me and whispered, "I love you." This was a big deal for him because he doesn't throw those words around lightly. I just laughed because I knew it meant nothing. Not really.

 

The last time he invited me to his hotel room, I turned him down. The next day, he told me I had made the right decision. It was then that I told him that I would always have expectations of him and I would not be involved like that anymore. Aside from that, now that their kids are grown, his wife is at the company more and more and I have to deal with her. Where I barely knew her before, I have a distant working relationship with her now and that makes things even worse. As I said, I'm trying to get away from there. It would be best for everyone if I just disappeared.

 

As far as day-to-day or regular talking, we don't do that anymore. We used to write or talk all the time, constantly, but I realized that was just keeping me tied to him. So, although we rarely talk anymore, we do occasionally and we're always happy when we see one another. He is a true soul mate, and what I mean by that is that we have a real connection down to our souls. When we're around one another, the world seems transformed. The connection we have is basically inexplicable. This does not mean, I have learned, that we are meant to be together. It seems to mean that we truly understand one another and that we bring extreme joy to each other. It has taken a long time for me to realize that it did not, and will not, change my world in the way that I would like for it to.

 

But you should understand that it's because he never deceived me that we're able to have even a distant friendship. While it wouldn't be healthy for us to keep that close bond we had, we still care deeply about one another.

 

You absolutely will not have anything close to that because of the way you're lying to the OW. If you don't fix this now, losing her friendship will be the least of your worries.

 

Everyone is trying to say two important things to you: 1) lying to your OW is excessively selfish and wrong; and 2) this lying is likely to come back to haunt you in ways you could never imagine. You need to stop this childish, selfish, short-sighted behavior of yours and try to fix this mess as best you can before it gets any worse.

 

You're right that it takes mature people to keep it together when a relationship ends, but what you don't seem to understand is that it takes maturity on both sides to create that. Since you cannot act mature, you are not going to get mature results. End of story.

Edited October 22, 2014 by bathtub-row

[conflictedlove]

I don't have a spouse and xMM's wife knows nothing about us. Whether he feels it's a betrayal to his wife to talk to me at this point is really his decision, not mine. What he does or doesn't do in his marriage is none of my concern anymore. We both knew that if we continued the affair, we would end up hating one another. I did not want to be an OW and he wasn't going to divorce his wife. Stalemate.

 

The attraction between us is almost palpable and if put in a room alone together, sparks fly. On the day-to-day basis, though, I have learned to control those feelings. I don't hurt for him anymore and I have no hope whatsoever that he and I will ever be together. Understand, it took yrs for me to get to this point. He's the owner of the company I work at and I'm trying very hard to get away from there. He's in another city but I see him via video conference meetings at least a couple of times/wk.

 

When he's in town, we go to dinner and talk for hours (this is about 2 or 3 times/yr). Last Christmas at the company party, I showed up with a date and that drove him nuts, although he never let me see this, of course. He epitomizes the cool and collected executive. My only clue about what he was feeling was when a bunch of us were saying goodbye in the parking lot, he hugged me and whispered, "I love you." This was a big deal for him because he doesn't throw those words around lightly. I just laughed because I knew it meant nothing. Not really.

 

The last time he invited me to his hotel room, I turned him down. The next day, he told me I had made the right decision. It was then that I told him that I would always have expectations of him and I would not be involved like that anymore. Aside from that, now that their kids are grown, his wife is at the company more and more and I have to deal with her. Where I barely knew her before, I have a distant working relationship with her now and that makes things even worse. As I said, I'm trying to get away from there. It would be best for everyone if I just disappeared.

 

As far as day-to-day or regular talking, we don't do that anymore. We used to write or talk all the time, constantly, but I realized that was just keeping me tied to him. So, although we rarely talk anymore, we do occasionally and we're always happy when we see one another. He is a true soul mate, and what I mean by that is that we have a real connection down to our souls. When we're around one another, the world seems transformed. The connection we have is basically inexplicable. This does not mean, I have learned, that we are meant to be together. It seems to mean that we truly understand one another and that we bring extreme joy to each other. It has taken a long time for me to realize that it did not, and will not, change my world in the way that I would like for it to.

 

But you should understand that it's because he never deceived me that we're able to have even a distant friendship. While it wouldn't be healthy for us to keep that close bond we had, we still care deeply about one another.

 

You absolutely will not have anything close to that because of the way you're lying to the OW. If you don't fix this now, losing her friendship will be the least of your worries.

 

You're right that it takes mature people to keep it together when a relationship ends, but what you don't seem to understand is that it takes maturity on both sides to create that. End of story.

 

HI Bath Tub,

 

Thank you for your post.

 

It's honestly one of the most endearing and heartfelt posts I've read here. I have read it a few times and have been taken back by the enormity of your A. The fact that YOU have come to grips still working with MOM and now his wife is involved at the company is amazing how you have kept it together.

 

I've always wondered if and how people can get to the place where they can be friends (close or distant) post an A and even still see each other. In some ways, I have hoped for that since I don't want to lose MOW ever! Now it appears that its not possible. This is truly sorrowful. It really is.

 

Knowing it took you years to get to the place where you could accept that you and xmom have the magnetic pull, sparks fly and have the "soulmate" connection, there's nothing more to come from it and now the only steps are you to leave the company? i am fearful to say it but here goes....it appears you have overcome the A fog, validated its real, the connection like no other and soulmate bond is genuine, yet it does NOT mean that you both will truly be together and that parting ways is the best option for both of you.

 

For myself and so many here, the sobering words you have shared are going to ring in my heart and mind as i start to now think about what life would be like w/o mow. Years...it will take years as you said to heal. I can't even imagine starting.

 

I do love and care for my mow. I want to be with her. i really do. like your ex mom, we may struggle with the same feeling of obligations to our wives. I feel it and i don't think my w would let go and she would have the fight. mow would be able to let go. She would be hurt but she has her h and in some ways, she likes him in the state he is....very co dependent child like. so i guess that's how i take some minor consolation...mow has her h (even though she wants to leave him for me), i don't think she can let go of him. she has refused him physically and he's got his own issues (he doesn't have friends or outside hobbies).

 

at the end of the day, it feels like im standing on quicksand...can't stay too long...must keep running towards the pathway of two roads....there's one sign that read my w's name and the life that goes on with her and the other with mow's name and the life that goes with her. i see my w never leaving me if i go that path...with mow...the chance is there due to the odds i mentioned (age, past relationships and emotional fragile stages plus she has her h and kids).

 

A pathway to grief...where did the bliss of the A go?

[bathtub-row]

Well, it hasn't been easy and xMM and I have had our differences, that's for sure. We're both bull-headed and I did not like being an OW. That's why I knew that if we continued on the path we were on, we would end up as enemies. His friendship is way too dear to me for that to happen, and he feels the same way. Once, we had a huge disagreement and hardly spoke to one another for about 6 mos after that. That was a time when I really reached my limits with the whole situation. I was pretty sure that we would never recover from that but we somehow managed to.

 

Btw, I am not married and never was while I was with him so he's not a MOM. That's just a side point. Oh, and the work story gets better. MM's son is also involved in the company and he knows about our affair because he stumbled on messages between us a couple of yrs ago. That was the final nail in the coffin and the big deciding factor for me to have an exit strategy. MM has protected me but, as far as I'm concerned, I can't leave the company fast enough.

 

I can't tell you how much it used to hurt me to see MM sitting there in meetings with a bunch of people, and his wife and son included. Just recently, we had a meeting and for some reason everyone was kind of cutting up and laughing. Shortly after the meeting, MM texted me a happy face. He said that he loved seeing me laugh. It made me happy because I had felt the same way about him. When we get together, we tend to laugh quite a bit. We talk non-stop and hours feel like minutes. That kind of stuff - like his text - used to make me feel like he loved me so much, that all that would change things. But it doesn't really mean anything except that we care for one another a great deal. It doesn't change the world, though. It took a long time for me to wrap my head around that one.

 

Like you, I think xMM judged me based on my past relationships but that was a huge mistake. He was nothing like anyone I had ever been with so I wouldn't have left him. Nor did he think about the fact that I gave those relationships lots of chances to survive. Still, I think the judgement was there. He told me once that I was braver than he was. Maybe he's right.

 

I don't know what to tell you about your situation except that you HAVE to be upfront with the OW. There is nothing that can switch on a person's anger like being lied to or deceived. You may not be able to be friends with OW right away but maybe somewhere down the road, it could be a possibility. But if you lie to her, she's not likely to forgive that.

[conflictedlove]

Well, it hasn't been easy and xMM and I have had our differences, that's for sure. We're both bull-headed and I did not like being an OW. That's why I knew that if we continued on the path we were on, we would end up as enemies. His friendship is way too dear to me for that to happen, and he feels the same way. Once, we had a huge disagreement and hardly spoke to one another for about 6 mos after that. That was a time when I really reached my limits with the whole situation. I was pretty sure that we would never recover from that but we somehow managed to.

 

Btw, I am not married and never was while I was with him so he's not a MOM. That's just a side point. Oh, and the work story gets better. MM's son is also involved in the company and he knows about our affair because he stumbled on messages between us a couple of yrs ago. That was the final nail in the coffin and the big deciding factor for me to have an exit strategy. MM has protected me but, as far as I'm concerned, I can't leave the company fast enough.

 

I can't tell you how much it used to hurt me to see MM sitting there in meetings with a bunch of people, and his wife and son included. Just recently, we had a meeting and for some reason everyone was kind of cutting up and laughing. Shortly after the meeting, MM texted me a happy face. He said that he loved seeing me laugh. It made me happy because I had felt the same way about him. When we get together, we tend to laugh quite a bit. We talk non-stop and hours feel like minutes. That kind of stuff - like his text - used to make me feel like he loved me so much, that all that would change things. But it doesn't really mean anything except that we care for one another a great deal. It doesn't change the world, though. It took a long time for me to wrap my head around that one.

 

Like you, I think xMM judged me based on my past relationships but that was a huge mistake. He was nothing like anyone I had ever been with so I wouldn't have left him. Nor did he think about the fact that I gave those relationships lots of chances to survive. Still, I think the judgement was there. He told me once that I was braver than he was. Maybe he's right.

 

I don't know what to tell you about your situation except that you HAVE to be upfront with the OW. There is nothing that can switch on a person's anger like being lied to or deceived. You may not be able to be friends with OW right away but maybe somewhere down the road, it could be a possibility. But if you lie to her, she's not likely to forgive that.

 

Hi Bathtub,

 

Thank you for sharing about your xmm! I really admire how you can be so tolerant and come to a place where you are at...you love and care for him but know he can't take the next step you would for him. That makes me pretty sad actually. I don't know what's worse....living married and lonely knowing the one you really love isn't with you or leaving one's spouse knowing he/she will go on to love someone else? Men can view women as territory and not want to any of them up! I'm sure if your xmm saw you with someone else he would panic?

 

Thank you for your kind words regarding my mow and being upfront with her. I do have an update and its going to be hard to deal with all of this.

 

mow is looking for another place to work and has went to an interview already. it looks good. she has to wait for a follow up interview, however its looking promising. Somehow, deep in my private thoughts, i can see her taking a job and then finding solace that she will become so engrossed with her new role, people at work and life in general that we would fade away eventually. I know right now she does not believe it......she really wants us to vacate our spouses and be together. I asked her to go to counseling before we do anything and she is soon. I am hoping that one she does, she will be more clear on what she really wants. I know she says she wants me, but in counseling sometimes those things can get stripped away.

 

i'm so torn...i had a vision tonight of telling my w. not about mow, but just that we were dying in our marriage. its pretty much here for the kids and i am a provider of shelter, food, resources etc. we we are intimate at times but its not what have with mow. yet, there's a side to me that doesn't want any other man to have my w. i feel similar to mow but i just have this thought she's going to cheat on me anyway or just fade...our age differences are going to come into play at some point and i don't want to ignore that.

 

im going to pour it out here and now....i have to....its the only place i can find any type of solace and feedback....so here goes.....

 

my previous A from 8 years ago....that mow wanted to leave her h for me. in the end, she knew i would not leave my w. i really had a problem with her aesthetically and culturally. I'm so glad we didn't end up together even though we almost did! i almost left my w and it was so bad i think my w was looking for another relationship or so she told me. i bring this up because mow now...she wants our relationship to take the next step. I feel like its happening all over again and i don't know how it gets to this point. Do all A's get to the point where its a cross to vacate spouses? that's such a huge risk and major stress factor on type of life changer.

 

i really want mow to get this other job. i don't want to lose her...i really can't be w/o her but i know she needs to grow through her circumstances and if she's going to leave her h, she needs to be alone for at least half a year or longer so she can heal and know what she wants. We had planned to keep low for 6 months once we leave our spouses before we come out as a couple but there's just something about one of us, maybe both changing through this. What if she or I find someone else?

 

Please don't be upset with me...yes i had an A 8 years about so this is not my first but i think that leaving my w with kids is a huge guilt trip i can't get past. its keeping me from reaching greater relationship heights or falling of the emotional cliff. I don't know.

[conflictedlove]

In my line of work we always review if we are being harmful to self and/or harmful to others with the way we participate.

.

 

Hi Sunny,

 

I agree. Love and in A can be harmful to the participants as well as others who are innocent. Having an A is like a trap door..once you get caught in the web, its difficult to navigate out. Having blissful nights and the ability to be openly free with someone is wonderful..but no one ever said it came with a cost. Not a cost of D day but a cost of having the A grow to the point it demands to evolve into a relationship.

[conflictedlove]

It's comments like this that make me reflect back on this whole A.

 

I can tell you with no uncertainty that if i told mow to give her h the green light, she would tell him. she wants to make sure that I'm willing to do the same with my w. I am on the fence because of my kids and the oldest one (teen).

 

After 18 months I look back and i realize that this started out as two people who grew close and went from an A to now a full blown relationship, full blown 100% in.

 

I long to be with mow but the reality is, i struggle with the thought of leaving my kids. my daughter sat by me this evening and all i could think about was what it would be like if it wasn't there for her at that moment. how do people overcome the guilt! What's the secret???

 

As for mow, i am in love with her but she is not perfect. She represents risk..risk of age gap (15 plus years), risk of getting hurt in discussions and not talking to me all night......risk of not being in any past LTR except with her H..which i've had LTR's and know the risks, pain and joys of them..as well as mow never having lived a true adult single life which I have.

 

The pressure points are coming from mow. She's brought up a couple and she wants to plan this out. She needs that from me. When i speak with my W, i see someone who is so distant from me that she doesn't know me. All i am is a financial provider and a decision maker for the kids and home. We we are intimate and its great actually...but there's no emotions tying us except our kids. i'm like a father figure to her and i'll always be that.

 

btw she's a SAHM as well. So if i were to leave, the news would be devastating. This is why i thought about mow and if she does tell her and and they start a separation process, she will be single for 6 months. During that time, we will be an time privately as we are now. I just see her taking on a new job hopefully soon, new role and actually being single for the first time in her adult like, liking it. If i left my w for her now or shortly after she told her H, i would be taking a huge gamble that she would change her mind and regret her and I. not worth it.

 

i feel stuck....like i have to let the circumstances play out. The speed and acceleration of the A matured so quickly it became a LTR before I knew it. All i could tell was it was like a baby that grew up to be a full child and demanding more time of me. its been a long and lonely ride at this point.

 

 

Your thread made me log into just for the sake of writing a reply. I am a former OW myself, my MM wanted to divorce but i decided it was better for us to end it and stay friends. We're very close now, and I am happy with how everything turned out. I am saying this because a while ago I posted some messages and I think I came off as a bit loony at that time, which I no longer am.

 

My two cents about your issue- YOU opened it for discussion, remember. We've all been into this.

 

Before seeing you were an established Loveshack member, I thought you were just trolling. There are no words to describe the surprise, appalling-ness and weirdness one feels when reading your messages.

 

You are a grown man. You're not a baby. You're not a little child, there comes a time in our lives when we must take responsibility for our actions, as in finding a way to solve the problem.

 

What is your problem here, according to what you yourself wrote? That you don't know how to get rid of your OW. Simply put, this is how it emanates from your words.

 

I don't understand why you rationalize so much- you don't want to have the feeling that you're leaving your children, you don't want your wife to suffer hardship as she's been a homemaker all her life, or worse, for her to meet someone else, and bottom line you don't want the OW to leave you in a few years when you believe you'll be much too old to sustain your relationship and she'd be tempted to cheat on you.

 

I honestly see that what you are asking for is 'how to get rid of the OW'. If this is what you want, I will tell you my honest opinion, as a former OW.

 

You have this woman's life in your hands and this is no game. Romance and rosy lenses might seem to be, but fights, serious stuff like divorce, a family's livelihood, these things aren't. You are GAMBLING with this woman's life and you know it, and yet you keep complaining about YOUR dissatisfaction with YOUR options.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome to what you predict? Maybe, let's assume, she won't take it lightly and may go tell your wife everything because she'd be LEAVING her husband for you? I capitalized 'leaving' for a reason- maybe she wants to now, but you're the red button that would cause the chain reaction, like you said yourself. She hasn't yet left- for a reason. She needs a safety blanket just like you do. Just like another comment BEAUTIFULLY put it- why are you so special, your needs, your family, your children, and not her/hers? Think about this.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe there may be another outcome in terms of how her husband would react? You don't know how people react in this type of situation, we can't even count on ourselves when the crunch time comes. What if he gets violent? What if he goes and tells everything to your wife? What if he has the power to hurt you at work?

 

Have you ever thought that maybe she doesn't deserve this? Why do you want to make this woman leave her family if you won't? Do you honestly think it will be BETTER for her as a single parent/grownup, going through a divorce AND being dumped by the guy she divorced for, because she'd 'enjoy being single', 'work and focus on herself'?

 

I honestly do not wish, under any shape or form, to sound like I know it all (God knows I absolutely don't), but in this particular case, I cannot help at wonder- what is wrong with some people who are middle aged or adults and seem to have the intelligence of a four year-old.

 

Seriously, dude. Really now. Do you even realize how bad everything you wrote sounds? It's far worse than a MM throwing a mistress under the bus- at least he's into his problem-solving mode and the primitive instinct of self-preservation has kicked in. But you are PLANNING on it, at the expense of HER OWN decision?

 

I can't find the words to tell you how wrong you are, what a huge mistake you are committing. What a pity, and what a sin you are staining your hands with. 'Sin' not in the religious sense, but in the human civilization one- you are inflicting some serious premeditated sh*t on someone you profess you love and care about.

 

My two cents- wake up. Don't let her gamble her life away as the consequences WILL be dire. I would have had a hard time forgiving my MM had he thrown me under the bus, but nothing, and I mean nothing, and I must stress yet again, absolutely nothing on this planet would have saved him from my wrath if he did anything remotely similar to what you're saying, basically tacitly agreeing that I leave my family to dump me afterwards.

 

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned, and I predict you aren't quite sensing this yet. Be aware, be very aware.

 

Don't play, don't be selfish. You split the hair in 16 here with your own feelings, kids, family, wife's sex drive or lack thereof, yet nothing about the OW.

 

Do you want to know how to save your selfish a**, cause my friend, you will need to?

 

Leave the OW alone. Be completely honest with her, tell her about your concerns. Tell her about your children Be 100% honest, don't even think of taking the risk of NOT saying it all. Keeping stuff away IS lying, look it up.

 

IF and only IF she still insists she independently wants to leave her marriage, make it clear you don't want to get involved immediately after. She'll say ok, go home, sleep on it, and two weeks from then you'll see how she's slowly changing her mind.

 

Be fair and give this woman the same treatment you would like to be given. Be honest, don't hold her hand while she puts the rope around her own neck, because the consequences can be dire for you in ways you don't even imagine.

 

It saddens me to see you are actually downright cruel, you'd actually get rid of her after she divorces. It's heartbreaking, nobody deserves this.

 

Just be honest with her and this will give you the inner peace you long for as well (although you clearly don't deserve it).

 

Hi Cressida,

 

Thank you for your words of encouragement and rebuke.

 

I understand as you mentioned, that i can't leave mow if she decides to leave her h. i don't think she will leave him independently unless she has a safety next. That's not the way to transition into a relationship. I really want her to grow through being solo for a short time so she can find what she really wants. If it is me, then so be it. i just know that the odds are stacked against us for trying to be a unit. It feels like the impossible which i don't mind trying, but the stakes are much higher than i like.

 

once mow gets another job here shortly, her and i will talk. i don't think its going to be too hard for her to be engulfed in her new role and eventually tire of the relationship. its a distraction and once another one comes along, back on the shelf we go. She wants to leave her h and i'm the only one keeping her from doing so. That's because i can't figure out a way to leave my w.

 

Since your mow or x mow paid for your financial needs, doesn't that distort the A to certain degree?

[conflictedlove]

I think you have to tell her not to divorce for you, and be honest. This is the top and paramount priority for you in the relationship with her, at this point.

 

It is the same feeling I had. It wasn't a matter of 'don't divorce for me, I don't love you enough', it was a matter of 'yes, do it. I'll marry you tomorrow. But can you handle the consequences? Can you be happy knowing your kids are judging you, your family lost its reputation, your friends and acquaintances speak behind your back? Can you do this, at your age? If you can, I am 100% with you in it. If you can't, I 100% understand'.

 

And he chose to stay in the marriage, despite being heartbroken that we weren't a couple anymore after this. He knew that at his age, he couldn't survive an earthquake of such proportions and be 100% ok with everything. He knew he'd resent me. There are high differences between your case and mine, but I wanted him to do what was best for him, as I had nothing to lose. I couldn't live with a man who regretted what he did.

I ended our relationship because I didn't want to be a OW anymore, and because I wanted to have a normal life. Just like I understood him, he understood me.

That's how we are very good friends and everything turned out fine. Believe me, it can turn out fine for everyone despite existing theories that it can't. But you have to be 100% non-selfish, 100% realistic, and 100% honest. You just have to, there is no other way. I am happy now because I still have him in my life and I am tremendously happy about it, and he feels the same way.

 

Cressida,

 

Thank you for sharing this.

 

So do you and your xmm work at the same place? and after reading about your xmm's age, was it a concern to him at all?

 

I feel like you totally took the high road and ended the A with your xmm for his best interest. Looking back, now, do you feel you would have left him eventually or vice versa? and did you end it because of his kids / family and such?

[Lurkeraspect]

Hi Cressida,

 

Thank you for your words of encouragement and rebuke.

 

I understand as you mentioned, that i can't leave mow if she decides to leave her h. i don't think she will leave him independently unless she has a safety next. That's not the way to transition into a relationship. I really want her to grow through being solo for a short time so she can find what she really wants. If it is me, then so be it. i just know that the odds are stacked against us for trying to be a unit. It feels like the impossible which i don't mind trying, but the stakes are much higher than i like.

 

once mow gets another job here shortly, her and i will talk. i don't think its going to be too hard for her to be engulfed in her new role and eventually tire of the relationship. its a distraction and once another one comes along, back on the shelf we go. She wants to leave her h and i'm the only one keeping her from doing so.

That's because i can't figure out a way to leave my w.  

 

Since your mow or x mow paid for your financial needs, doesn't that distort the A to certain degree?

 

Your thread(s)/posts should really be required reading for any woman even remotely thinking of a relationship with. MM. You could be a PSA for who not to fall for. Your level of self entitlement is amazing. Pay attention ladies. They roam/stalk among us.

[whichwayisup]

so you don't want your wife to find someone else. don't want your wife to be with another man, just you. Yet you can have not one, but two affairs and want to leave your wife, but won't because of a. b. c reasons/excuses (you've actually already left emotionally and are detached) already. How often do you even think about your wife, how she is, what's doing, or how the kids are with her while you were having your A's?

 

People do divorce all the time and they manage with the adjustments by family counseling and having both parents put the kids first. Your kids more than likely (depending on how old they are of course) know what a normal family relationship is supposed to be like and what a dysfunctional or unhealthy family unit relationship looks like.

[conflictedlove]

Your thread(s)/posts should really be required reading for any woman even remotely thinking of a relationship with. MM. You could be a PSA for who not to fall for. Your level of self entitlement is amazing. Pay attention ladies. They roam/stalk among us.

 

HI Lurker,

 

Thank you for your lurking feedback.

 

Well, I would say that its apparent the struggle of an A its entanglements is foreign to many from the outside. I do understand why anyone who has never been caught in the web on of an A would assume its easy to break from. it's not! the countless broken hearts here on LS can attest to this.

 

i am struggling with a life with mow and my w. mow is now pressing me hard.time to plan, see guidance and think about how we plan to conjoin. 2 years ago, i would have never thought the innocent baby A would flourish in to a full blown child A demanding to eat time, emotions and resources. It's like quicksand under your feet....you cant run nor can you stand still...you have to move but where, because the ground is sinking from under you!

 

i love mow and she's a fit for me but there are some issues...my w...she's been with me for 15+ years.....i feel like i owe her but the marriage is as bland emotionally as it gets. we are here for the kids...i have ask her if she feels the same way. She sure acts like it.

 

I just don't know how many a's lead on to be successful marriages. its such a scary thought. how can you trust? i ask myself this everyday. does anyone really grow out of not trusting their AP after they come together as a couple?

[conflictedlove]

so you don't want your wife to find someone else. don't want your wife to be with another man, just you. Yet you can have not one, but two affairs and want to leave your wife, but won't because of a. b. c reasons/excuses (you've actually already left emotionally and are detached) already. How often do you even think about your wife, how she is, what's doing, or how the kids are with her while you were having your A's?

 

People do divorce all the time and they manage with the adjustments by family counseling and having both parents put the kids first. Your kids more than likely (depending on how old they are of course) know what a normal family relationship is supposed to be like and what a dysfunctional or unhealthy family unit relationship looks like.

 

Hi WWIU,

 

Thank you very much for your considerate and supportive post.

 

You addressed something very dear to me and i'm sure others who have been or are caught up in an A. That is, how likely is an A to work in a marriage with 2 AP's? Can they ever trust? Is it easier to stay married with someone that you don't have a flourishing marriage for the sake of the kids? I worry about my a/p age gap...it comes out at times and i don't want to be the guy who lost it all with his w of similar age for a younger woman who dearly loves me and wants to be married to me but she is her age...early 30's..so that's can't be changed in terms of her behavior now and in the future?

 

I really would do anything for my kids....but i feel like i worry my w won't tend to them like i remind her to do now. simple things...teacher conferences, notes, feeding and diet for the kids, what to take for medication, etc. It's like she can't be trusted on her own and i'm partly to blame for that. I just don't know if i like the idea of her having my kids to he herself.