The 11th Hour and D-Day is coming: Admissions of Fear

[anne1707]

Anne....my dear young friend....its so good of you to finally reply.

 

I'm not adverse to company Anne...just know its been a long, joyful and often lonely A road. You of all people I would expect to understand the dynamics of an A....however it seems we have forgotten what it was like? The turmoil, the longing and the inability to break free knowing the grief would come somewhere.

 

I share with you dear anne...that what was presumed to be a mere moment in time A has blossomed into a virtual 2 yr commitment...beyond anything anyone could ever have imagined. It passed the 6 month mark and at this pace will continue to move forward with one caveat......the demand to evolve into a full blown relationship....that is the very meteor that no one had anticipated...not myself, you or anyone else.

 

There has to be AP's here who have encountered and even possibly cut away or moved on with their AP's.

 

Don't ever draw comparisons between you and me

 

I have not forgotten what it is like to be in an affair which is why I know you are a selfish POS who is only thinking about himself.

[eye of the storm]

Dear God, can't we all agree to not talk to this AHole anymore. Now he is being condescending to posters and calling everyone young. As if we don't know the tragedy that is his life.

 

His prose is nauseating and he just loves posting about how tragic all this crap is and how females that come into his orbit are suddenly trapped into never wanting to leave and how horrible because he knows better than them and they are incapable of making decisions or living their lives without his manly guidance.

 

He is the kind a man that makes me want to bang my head on a board...with nails sticking out of it....covered with fast acting poison.

[anne1707]

Agreed - I think we should all make good use of the Ignore function so we can bypass all this waffle. After all, he ignores anything we say so let's reciprocate

[Versailles]

At the end of the day, you should just decide what you really want and stick with it. Decide once and for all who is the one you want in your life most and stick with it. If you choose your W and kids or if you can't decide now, then let your OW know so that she can make a decision with all the available information. It seems obvious even to me that right now, your last choice is choosing your OW. She may be trying to get you to make a decision but if you really cant, please say so. It would be completely cruel and unfair to let her make a decision without all the facts. She seems to have been telling you everything on her mind but you haven't been as honest with her. This is really not the way to handle it and you ought to be truthful with her.

 

In terms of age and length of relationship, your situation seems close to mine, but my MM wouldn't just try to sideline me like you have been doing to her. He would tell me truthfully how he feels about our situation and then let me decide or try to help me to decide based on what he feels would be best for both of us. Whatever you are considering is only what seems best for you, I don't think you've even thought of how she would feel if you just let her D based on her expectation that you would follow suit but you didn't.

[Realist3]

This whole situation is nonsense.

 

 

Far more than you know.

[truncated]

I know it's best to ignore this poster, but I can't help saying one last thing, if not for them, but for anyone else reading this.

 

You say you are having troble deciding what to do because you love your kids? Pffttt. That's sheer cr@p and you know it. A person who loves their kids would never EVER risk their health like this, especially when you know that one of them - our son, accoridng to you- is already having issues with his mental health.

 

When our child was in the hospital, I would soemtimes take a break and sit in he day room with the other parents. We'd talk, and they'd often open up about their lives. One of he things I heard so often was how they felt terrible that their choices had impacted their children. They didn't realize it at the time, but their actions had sent their kids lives spinning out of control, and now they were paying the price.

 

I can tell you this. Your downright selfishness in putting the needs of you and your OW before your children is just plain sad. You are putting your children's health at risk just so you can have a roll in the hay and pitch and moon on and on about the complications in your life. I hope your kids are some of the lucky ones and make it through this unscathed, but if they don't, one day you may find yourself at the worst place a parent could ever, ever find themslevs, thinking " if only I had't had an affair", but by then it will be too late, and all your platitudes won't change one damned thing.

 

You and your OW are both grown ups ( or so you say) so why don't you act like it? Oh, I forgot, it's so complicated and pathetically sad that I couldn't ever possibly undertsand ( thank god for that)

[Cressida]

I know it's best to ignore this poster, but I can't help saying one last thing, if not for them, but for anyone else reading this.

 

You say you are having troble deciding what to do because you love your kids?

 

Conflictedlove, and to the poster above, you never said anything particular about your children, except for aspects related to them, as in it would be hard for you to be separated from them if you chose the OW, that your wife wouldn't be able to properly care for them, etc. THEN you said that the son has some issues and you wouldn't want to cause him harm.

 

I disagree with the post above, so many adults get divorced every day in the world and people survive, children thrive, everything can end well. It depends on how the parents handle everything, how the divorce is conducted, how the partners are able to change the environment for the child to be nurtured and shown love, care and attention. Granted, it is better for a child, theoretically speaking, to grow inside a family unit and not be raised by divorced parents. However, where there's a will there's a way. But this is just my personal opinion and everyone is definitely entitled to decide on how to handle their own lives, particularly with respect to their own children.

 

This was a little parentheses as I wanted to specify that Conflictedlove didn't really make it about the kids in the beginning and now seems to be using them as yet another excuse for his behavior.

 

Very sad and truly, with no 'drama' added, i almost feel sad for the OW, even if she's a strange woman I will most probably never meet. I really sympathize with her, because she's the victim in this story. Not your wife, Conflictedlove, who even if is being wronged by your cheating, will always come first with you, and you'll always value her more than you value the OW. It's really sad to see a woman's destiny basically being decided on a forum by a man who would do anything to avoid being open, honest and protective of her on some level, since he says he loves her so much.

 

The work issue, I think you are not being honest about that either. The conversation on your problem has gone from the overall paradigmatic approach with the entire array of issues, to the very particular- you sifted out the 'overall' and ended up saying the truth about what really stands in your way with regards to this woman. The work-related thing just shows, imo, that this is yet another reason you are afraid to be honest with OW about.

 

The problem being that your affair with her, if it leaves her dissatisfied, could affect your work. And that it's 'better' for HER to leave and find another job, as 'you know' she'd thrive there, focus on it, etc.

You said so yourself, that one of you HAS to leave, because the love you have bla bla bla would conflict bla bla bla. BS, I say. I think the reality here is that if she didn't leave, her husband, upon finding out about you, would really have a good pop at you if you're her coworker and he knows where to find you. People would gossip, the bosses would frown, and it's usually the one in a superior position who'd get the really bad slap on the wrist, if you know what I mean.

 

Yet again- why do you want her to change work and why don't you do it yourself, if you truly believe that the work factor is an issue? It's you who has issues with it, not her. It's you who planned all this, without her knowing, and her actually thinking you'll leave your wife and be with her. She also needs her work, doesn't need a stain on her resume, has kids to feed at home, bills to pay. She probably enjoys her work, her colleagues, have you two talked about this? Does she agree with going somewhere else?

 

Conflictedlove, you are making a big mistake, and you are continuing in your mistake, despite what everyone here told you. We don't know you and most probably never will, so i doubt that anyone here is set on 'attacking' you. They're just appalled at the whole story which, if true, is a terrible tale of a man who doesn't know how to fix things up because he got into it b*alls deep.

 

Why are you not willing to admit that you are very selfish? What prevents you from understanding that you may be singlehandedly ruining your OWs life by deciding what's best for her, in her place?

 

You are a grown man, you cannot act like a teenager who doesn't know how the world goes round. You have children you are raising and educating, you know the difference between right or wrong.

 

You refuse to do the right, common sense thing, and be honest with the OW. I wish you realized how awful the consequences will be if you don't tell her in time, before she divorces her husband, and count on her forgetting about your promise afterwards. You even have the 6 -month timeframe established, as if OW isn't a real human being but a robot who'll auto-deprogram herself after 6 months. :eek:it really makes me sad to see that there are people who actually end up feeling stuff like this in their hearts, and I hope my exMM wasn't this vile.

 

I am in disbelief about you basically saying 'one of us has to go', i.e. I can't break up with her because she's in the office with me and this is the last hurdle to jump, how the eff do I get rid of her from there. That's what you're saying.

 

You expect her not only to leave her marriage, or you'd be ok with her doing so, affect her kids, ruin her family, but also ruin her work, change jobs, because of your sweet behind, your stay-at-home wife and your family. So, it's like, 'OW, I love you, our hearts are one, you've enriched my existence in ways you cannot comprehend...*tear*...but you have to go now....no, no it's for your own good...yea...oh and you also have to change jobs you know...no no, we can't possibly work together, I hope you understand it's for your own good....YOUR own good, yes, see...I love you so much, I constantly think about your well-being...ok bye now'

 

I have this really bad feeling now for this woman, seriously you guys, I am literally close to tearing up. Perhaps it sounds stupid and you guys might think I'm BSing, but I promise you I am literally feeling sorry and sad for OW. If I knew her address I'd email her and if she lived in my building I'd knock on her door with a bottle of something and give her a hug. Nobody in this world deserves to be treated like this by someone who professes love for them, nobody. Conflictedlove, you are cruel, and I truly hope with all my heart, and I will be thinking about this very intensely, that things come back to bite you in the ass, and you receive your punishment for having been so awful to this woman.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I have this really bad feeling now for this woman, seriously you guys, I am literally close to tearing up. Perhaps it sounds stupid and you guys might think I'm BSing, but I promise you I am literally feeling sorry and sad for OW. If I knew her address I'd email her and if she lived in my building I'd knock on her door with a bottle of something and give her a hug. Nobody in this world deserves to be treated like this by someone who professes love for them, nobody. Conflictedlove, you are cruel, and I truly hope with all my heart, and I will be thinking about this very intensely, that things come back to bite you in the ass, and you receive your punishment for having been so awful to this woman.

 

You and me both. I still think this whole story is probably a long-running troll, but if it's real it's the absolute scariest thing on this website (and on a site full of woman-hating PUAs, that means a lot). I cannot imagine dating a man so thoroughly deranged and manipulative. If this woman exists I would buy her wine, chocolate and a restraining order.

[Cressida]

You and me both. I still think this whole story is probably a long-running troll, but if it's real it's the absolute scariest thing on this website (and on a site full of woman-hating PUAs, that means a lot). I cannot imagine dating a man so thoroughly deranged and manipulative. If this woman exists I would buy her wine, chocolate and a restraining order.

 

Yes, I hope that she goes on Loveshack at some point, reads his stories and maybe gets a clue. I can only imagine what she might be thinking right now, that she has a wonderful man who loves her, she might also be conflicted inside and feel bad about her marriage and her husband, and thinking about her children, and thinking about Conflictedlove and their future together....if she read how he's talking about her and how he's premeditating her downfall, to the degree of lowness and thinking about how she should leave the company so his ass would be protected....it just breaks my heart imagining what that woman might feel like in her heart.

 

As a former OW I can only remember the pain I felt at times, and the absolute devastation such attitude from my exMM would have inflicted upon me. I would have gone crazy thinking that this man never loved me, I was always disposable and look how he wants to get rid of me.

 

She made a mistake by getting involved with a MM, but nobody deserves this. I am also starting to get the feeling that he's trolling, I actually thought it the first time I posted a reply to his message, i even said 'at first I thought you were trolling but then I saw you were an established member'.

[aliveagain]

If he isn't a troll perhaps when his divorce is finalized he will enjoy living in his new cardboard box. After child support and alimony he should have enough to pay for matches so he can start a fire next to the dumpster where is fridge carton will be located. His new life will be so full of reality.

[Cressida]

when his divorce is finalized

 

This man will never divorce as he obviously lacks any form of love, respect, care and understanding for his OW. He puts his family life and his wife on a pedestal and thinks his problems and his family are the centre of the world, completely disregarding the OWs own situation, when he should consider her as well. He'll never leave his wife for her, and at this point, she is so much better off him. I hope she doesn't do anything stupid and leave her husband for Conflictedlove, that would be a huge mistake.

 

And I always wondered- if Conflictedlove's wife is so precious and vulnerable and overall so important, and is a homemaker, how come he doesn't trust her around the kids? Why isn't she a good mother, as that's what he said, he knows she's unable to properly care for them. What does a homemaker do all day besides doing her part while the husband is away at work?

[WakingUp]

Oh seriously I cant believe you are all buying into this still.

 

 

The collective time and energy and emotion going into this persons rather inventive and poetic fabrications is really quite astonishing.

 

 

He is certainly very successful at getting everyone fired up, though.

 

 

Anyone remember his other names on here? Quite entertaining, some of his previous threads.

[Realist3]

Folks, this person has been banned no less than 10 times in the past 18 months. I'm not saying timeouts, banned. Read that for what you will.

[conflictedlove]

Read that for what you will.

 

Realist,

 

So says the man who is married and has an AP for much longer than I and boht AP and your wife know about each other and agree to share you.

 

That my friend is a dream come true.

 

Why can't you share the secrets to your success?

[conflictedlove]

This man will never divorce as he obviously lacks any form of love, respect, care and understanding for his OW. He puts his family life and his wife on a pedestal and thinks his problems and his family are the centre of the world, completely disregarding the OWs own situation, when he should consider her as well. He'll never leave his wife for her, and at this point, she is so much better off him. I hope she doesn't do anything stupid and leave her husband for Conflictedlove, that would be a huge mistake.

 

And I always wondered- if Conflictedlove's wife is so precious and vulnerable and overall so important, and is a homemaker, how come he doesn't trust her around the kids? Why isn't she a good mother, as that's what he said, he knows she's unable to properly care for them. What does a homemaker do all day besides doing her part while the husband is away at work?

 

Hi Cressida,

 

Thank you for your post and as tart as the comments are, i do take them in whole and understand the words are coming from a good place.

 

Let me be open with you....i want to leave my w...but i can't. I have my own past demons of my mother being a single parent that haunt me to this day and what she and we as kids went through...its too much to talk to. I still fight that past to this day.

 

The thought of my w, who is the mother of my kids, making poor dating choices (i can see her doing that in sheer desperation to not be alone) and would struggle financially, emotionally and be engulged in her own grief at the expense of our kids grieving. I carry that guilt to keep that from happening knowing that i've surrendered over 15 yrs of my life and we really have not been that close. If we didn't have kids i'm not sure we would even be together.

 

As far as mow.....i do love her and long to be with her....but i after reading feedback here on LS, i know that the odds of our relationship lasting appear to be small.....as much i as don't want to believe it! our age gap of mow and i, the way we started our relationship and our personalities compliment yet at times are too much alike. then the trust factor and dealing with ex's. I don't mind going forward regardless, but it feels like trying to move the ocean.

 

look at realist...he was able to get his a/p and w to agree they would share him and be open about it. I mean....is that the pinnacle of keeping both a ap and spouse?

[beach]

Hi Cressida,

 

Thank you for your post and as tart as the comments are, i do take them in whole and understand the words are coming from a good place.

 

Let me be open with you....i want to leave my w...but i can't. I have my own past demons of my mother being a single parent that haunt me to this day and what she and we as kids went through...its too much to talk to. I still fight that past to this day.

 

The thought of my w, who is the mother of my kids, making poor dating choices (i can see her doing that in sheer desperation to not be alone) and would struggle financially, emotionally and be engulged in her own grief at the expense of our kids grieving. I carry that guilt to keep that from happening knowing that i've surrendered over 15 yrs of my life and we really have not been that close. If we didn't have kids i'm not sure we would even be together.

 

As far as mow.....i do love her and long to be with her....but i after reading feedback here on LS, i know that the odds of our relationship lasting appear to be small.....as much i as don't want to believe it! our age gap of mow and i, the way we started our relationship and our personalities compliment yet at times are too much alike. then the trust factor and dealing with ex's. I don't mind going forward regardless, but it feels like trying to move the ocean.

 

look at realist...he was able to get his a/p and w to agree they would share him and be open about it. I mean....is that the pinnacle of keeping both a ap and spouse?

 

So what you describe as a kid growing up being horrific is what you've essentially chosen to risk as a married person.

 

You didn't like your Mom being that single parent but you are willing to risk your wife finding out you've cheated several times and end result her being on her own.

 

 

Proof that you really aren't thinking of anyone but yourself as the end result for what you've been doing all along.

 

There's always pain when any relationship ends. You are into two relationships at the same time- there is no way out without the downfall.

 

Pick your poison - live with the consequences of the way you've participated.

 

 

Your W won't respect you. Your OW won't be capable of respecting you. You've created a no win situation that you want to make pretty. The only way to get out of this is to hurt at least one person a lot.

 

Living in your future with disrespect and no trust is a given. You get what you give.

[conflictedlove]

 

As a former OW I can only remember the pain I felt at times, and the absolute devastation such attitude from my exMM would have inflicted upon me. I would have gone crazy thinking that this man never loved me, I was always disposable and look how he wants to get rid of me.

 

Cressida,

 

I can understand why this topic pains you. as a former ow, the waiting for your mom and thought of the relationship not growing into an LTR would be a daily egg shell walk. I'm sorry that you had to go through that with your mom. I have no doubt he wanted you, however being married and the impact on kids is what he may have struggled with? It is what I do but i know that i have to keep asking myself.....do my kids ever see me happy and blossoming in a relationship at this point? the answer is no. Same for my w. She's just not a close physical person and as much as i want to care for her and keep her from making life mistakes outside of me, i can't do that if i'm with mow.

 

Sometimes i do wish this was a dream. I don't think people realize that the odds of an A passing 6 months are pretty slim....then once you get past the 1st year its almost next to none. we are going long past that and everyone here kept saying it was a matter of d day time....and i assumed that's how it would end. Well, it didn't! No one told me or even suggested that the anvil and torment of pain would come through the A turning into an LTR. Managing two people and kids in a 24 hour day....it is nothing short of needing to be two places at the same time....everyday.

 

I know i'm at an impasse soon. the road will force a decision. part of me wants my w to meet someone.....not so i can be with mow....so that i would know she's in a safe place with someone who would take the baton from me as a care giver. The other side doesn't want that....i've been the only man my wife as been with and going through various life trials....i feel obligated to that commitment.

[beach]

 

i feel obligated to that commitment

 

 

No you don't. Not based on your actions towards your wife.

 

 

Let's be realistic based on what you typed in the past. You do not honor your commitment nor do you feel obligated to.

 

You essentially do whatever pleases you with every intention that your wife doesn't find out what's really going on.

 

That doesn't show your "obligation to that commitment".

[conflictedlove]

So what you describe as a kid growing up being horrific is what you've essentially chosen to risk as a married person.

 

You didn't like your Mom being that single parent but you are willing to risk your wife finding out you've cheated several times and end result her being on her own.

 

 

Proof that you really aren't thinking of anyone but yourself as the end result for what you've been doing all along.

 

There's always pain when any relationship ends. You are into two relationships at the same time- there is no way out without the downfall.

 

Pick your poison - live with the consequences of the way you've participated.

 

 

Your W won't respect you. Your OW won't be capable of respecting you. You've created a no win situation that you want to make pretty. The only way to get out of this is to hurt at least one person a lot.

 

Living in your future with disrespect and no trust is a given. You get what you give.

 

Hi Beach,

 

Hope all is well and happy holidays.

 

I speak hard truth but i understand your viewpoint and honestly to take time to digest it. My hope was to have mow take another role at a different company and then see if we can sustain the relationship. If we could, it would likely stand the test of things to come as a couple. however, knowing mow, i don't think it would. She would get caught up in her work, we would see each other less and if we had a fallout, not seeing the person does something right? out of sight out of mind?

 

As far as mow...she really does want to be with me...and vice versa...but please keep in mind..our age gap should tell you something. She married young....and if she did leave her h for me.....we agreed to wait 6 months before coming out. Why? because i really believe she will need to know what its like to be on her own for at least that period of time so she truly knows what she wants and who she wants. Enjoy the life of being single and get to make decisions about me or anyone else based where she's at in life and not settle because she's married and looking for a way out.

 

I don't mind being the KISA however that role i've done and have come up short more than i like to admit. simply put....being the KISA is a sheer desperation move for the women i've been with (they either had bf's or were looking for a way out of a situation) that once they get to place they no longer need the KISA to save them since there's nothing to be saved from, they vacate. I look back and don't blame them. The bleeding heart is only on my own and that's because, just like with mow as we speak, i have the KISA almost put on and it only spells heartbreak once she's single and realizes this is what she really wanted, it was merely a temp life saver to get her through the tempest.

[conflictedlove]

No you don't. Not based on your actions towards your wife.

 

 

Let's be realistic based on what you typed in the past. You do not honor your commitment nor do you feel obligated to.

 

You essentially do whatever pleases you with every intention that your wife doesn't find out what's really going on.

 

That doesn't show your "obligation to that commitment".

 

Beach,

 

Thank you and yes, you are correct saying that my w doesn't find out. I would not tell her because why hurt her? Let her be as she is and its not like i've left her at this point.

 

As i mentioned earlier.....and I'm asking you upfront since you seem to be one of the more genuine LS members here on this thread the following:

 

Like in realist's case....he has his w and mow both agreeing to his relationship with both. you tell me which is worse? Living with an open relationship because no one can have him or keeping things discreet so no one gets hurt?

 

And why does being madly in love with my mow have to be a ditch that has not bottom? I believe that she is more compatible with me. She's a different place with her h in terms of him being less of a leader and more of a follower in the relationship whereas i am virtually the sole decision maker when it comes to my kids and their academics and what not.

[beach]

You've just typed the same dribble you've repeated here for more than a year.

 

Your actions haven't changed to improve your lack of character/integrity.

 

Posters have tried to help you improve yourself but you won't change what you're doing.

 

What you're doing is harming many. Your choice. It tells us that you don't intend to become a better person.

 

 

You haven't given us any reason to believe you really care about either one of these women - only yourself.

Edited December 1, 2014 by beach

[conflictedlove]

When our child was in the hospital, I would soemtimes take a break and sit in he day room with the other parents. We'd talk, and they'd often open up about their lives. One of he things I heard so often was how they felt terrible that their choices had impacted their children. They didn't realize it at the time, but their actions had sent their kids lives spinning out of control, and now they were paying the price. ( thank god for that)

'

 

Hi Truncated,

 

Stories like this.....you have no idea how much of an impact this has. I almost wish i had not read it but i did. What i don't understand is, and I have yet to look, why is it that you are so tart about the A topic? Because you were a betrayed spouse or because you too were engulfed in an A? I ask because obviously those who have been ensnared by an A often times get bitter because of what the impact and fallout.

 

Mow and I have spoken about our kids....i just don't think at length. That is why we are semi holding off on launching the LTR. There are things that you have brought up and others that I did not consider. Again, keeping the infant A in that state was fine...i just didn't know or see that an infant A needs time from both A/P's to grow and it doesn't stay an A...like a catapillar ...it turns into a butterfly..so does an infant A...never in my wildest dreams did i see it turning into an LTR....once that would command a commitment long term.

 

I think there are countless blind spots I have and there's just no way to know which decision is the best for everyone. do boht mow and i stay in miserable or less than ideal relationships knowing that we are going to leave our spouses anyway when our kids are in their teens? or do we start the journey sooner than expected?

[conflictedlove]

Your actions haven't changed to improve your lack of character/integrity.

 

 

Beach,

 

Thank you and I did ask you as question about realist3 and his situation. If my situation go to that point where he is at, where his w and a/p both agree to share him openly....does the lack of integrity still apply?

 

I'm trying not to be that open because i know mow and myself would not like to share but if that's what it takes to gain acceptance and that's what you are telling me would be best to happen, then i have been looking at this all wrong.

[conflictedlove]

At the end of the day, you should just decide what you really want and stick with it. Decide once and for all who is the one you want in your life most and stick with it. If you choose your W and kids or if you can't decide now, then let your OW know so that she can make a decision with all the available information. It seems obvious even to me that right now, your last choice is choosing your OW. She may be trying to get you to make a decision but if you really cant, please say so. It would be completely cruel and unfair to let her make a decision without all the facts. She seems to have been telling you everything on her mind but you haven't been as honest with her. This is really not the way to handle it and you ought to be truthful with her.

 

In terms of age and length of relationship, your situation seems close to mine, but my MM wouldn't just try to sideline me like you have been doing to her. He would tell me truthfully how he feels about our situation and then let me decide or try to help me to decide based on what he feels would be best for both of us. Whatever you are considering is only what seems best for you, I don't think you've even thought of how she would feel if you just let her D based on her expectation that you would follow suit but you didn't.

 

Hi Versailles,

 

Thank you for your post.

 

I read your thread. Interesting....same situation....how much older is your mom than you? also, you have been in the A for about the same time i have. intriguing.

 

You mentioned your a/p and you are both unhappy in your marriages. Do you plan to continue to see each other in A style or has the thought of making longer plans come up?

 

I agree with you.....i have to make a decision however just like you, maybe you and your mom have not talked about moving to the next stage. i want to but as you probably know....with kids and such....it changes things..makes things more complex.....must take all circumstances into consideration and not act or move impulsively. Hence, LS here the feedback is wonderful, brutal and hurtful sometimes but i can take it because there's sincerity in the words.

 

I do want to know more about your A since its obvious you are in almost a too close for comfort situation that I am in.

[beach]

Please seek professional help. You could really benefit from a professional giving you guidance.