"Giving up" too easily with a woman

[BlueIris]

One woman's 'hard to get' is another woman's 'harassment'. Sadly for men you often won't know which it is until you reach the point of no return.

 

That's true. Women- and men- are individuals. But it's a bit overly dramatic to see it as sad for men or "a point of no return." No one's life is being ruined by deciding not to date someone any more. Just don't get too invested in people before you know them. When we do get invested before knowing them, we're probably investing in a fantasy anyway, not him or her.

[MissBee]

I don't have time for this.

 

If I like you and am interested I'm not going to ignore your calls on purpose to see how many times you're gonna call or to observe your persistence...that's nonsense to me.

 

Consistency and reliability are what's important to me not persistence necessarily. I have been worn down once by a persistent man, but the point is, I was WORN DOWN....I didn't like him like that originally. I saw him as a friend and so me turning down invites or not answering calls were not a ploy or game but because I really wasn't interested...and he kept it up...and I finally went out with him and gave him a shot. But with a man I like from jump there is no need to be persistent as persistent implies resistance from me and you persevering despite it, whereas if I like you no need to persevere. I just need consistence and reliability i.e. you keep in contact, you make plans and dates, you show up when you say you will and you show a clear investment and a continued nurturing of the relationship. That is what matters to me. What some women don't realize is that some men like the chase. I have a guy friend like this. LOVES it. He has persistence for years...he will call a woman or try to woo her for months, then when he beds her he's over it. No consistency or reliability after, but he sure had persistence. So a man can be persistent in calling you and not give up easily...but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's proven himself or that when you give in he'll continue to be around.

[irc333]

Yeah,I recall meeting a woman at a Meetup that brought a new boyfriend with her. She said, "Yeah, he must've asked me out 4 or 5 times already...this time I decided to go out with him"

 

I have heard how even marriages happened through the ever persistent husband.

 

"Yeah I remember how John would just keep coming by the gym and always tried to ask me out...I finally said yes, and well, the rest is history. Isn't that right honey?"

 

"Yes Dear" and they both LOL

 

 

I don't have time for this.

 

If I like you and am interested I'm not going to ignore your calls on purpose to see how many times you're gonna call or to observe your persistence...that's nonsense to me.

 

Consistency and reliability are what's important to me not persistence necessarily. I have been worn down once by a persistent man, but the point is, I was WORN DOWN....I didn't like him like that originally. I saw him as a friend and so me turning down invites or not answering calls were not a ploy or game but because I really wasn't interested...and he kept it up...and I finally went out with him and gave him a shot. But with a man I like from jump there is no need to be persistent as persistent implies resistance from me and you persevering despite it, whereas if I like you no need to persevere. I just need consistence and reliability i.e. you keep in contact, you make plans and dates, you show up when you say you will and you show a clear investment and a continued nurturing of the relationship. That is what matters to me. What some women don't realize is that some men like the chase. I have a guy friend like this. LOVES it. He has persistence for years...he will call a woman or try to woo her for months, then when he beds her he's over it. No consistency or reliability after, but he sure had persistence. So a man can be persistent in calling you and not give up easily...but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's proven himself or that when you give in he'll continue to be around.

[guest569]

I know some like that, not necessarily game playing though.. they just caved and ended up together. Doesn't sound very romantic but I applaud their successful relationships.

[54JA]

For me, it depends on these three factors: 1) how/why the guy originally obtained my number, 2) how busy I am, and 3) whether I like the guy or not

 

1) How/why the guy originally obtained my number:

 

a) For non-dating purpose (borrow my book, etc.): If the guy is calling me for a purpose other than the original intention (can I have your number so I can borrow your book?), I might ignore his call, hoping that he will get the hint. But, most likely, I would text him and say I am busy (hoping that he will get the hint)

 

b) Guy asked for my number to talk (with dating in mind) and I agreed: I would answer for sure. The only reason he why he would call me multiple times before I call him back would be I'm too busy to check the voicemail and call back and he beats me to it.

 

c) Guy obtained my number through some other means (friend, etc) without my knowledge: I would not return his call initially. If he is persistence, I would tell him to stop.

 

2) Being busy: I cannot call back before he calls me the second time because I am busy. I usually call back within 2-3 days. If I am not interested, and the guy does not state he wants me to call back in voice mail, I might not call back.

 

3) Whether I like the guy or not

 

a) If I like the guy, I would call him back as soon as I can. If I like the guy, I would initiate the call. The one weird thing I did when I first met my current boyfriend is that, I got his number and refused to give him mine. The reason was because I did not go through the "is he gonna call me?" frenzy and check my phone constantly (I was young). I did this for about a week or two.

 

b) If I don't like the guy, I am not in a hurry to call back.

 

Reading back what I just wrote, I believe I made things even more confusing for some people. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, I would not expect the guy to make multiple calls before I return his call just for the hell of it. But I am only one woman out of million other women. It's just me.

[MissBee]

I never do this.

 

If I don't respond to a call then it's because I am not interested and have said so already.

 

I do know of a few older ladies in their sixties who think this way though.

 

From what I know it's much older women who have this kind of mindset.

 

I could see this.

 

I remember browsing through the book The Rules and some of the advice was along those lines.

 

I thought the book was ridiculous frankly. I think the point it was trying to convey, albeit badly, is that you should have self-respect, don't be easy, don't offer up too much too soon and be a woman who has her own life and is interesting and not just at a man's beck and call and so easy that he loses interest. However, when it is spelled out in rules such as "End all calls first in 15 minutes ALWAYS", "End the date first", "Even if you aren't busy pretend like you are"....and more it just comes off VERY contrived. I get the underlying point as I said but I think if one cannot naturally exude interest while having boundaries and your own life, robotically following rules will seem very fake and it doesn't genuinely change who you are. You can follow the rules for but so long but if you've not genuinely cultivated a sense of self worth, your own life, boundaries etc...at some point that will show, whether it is on date 10 or when you say I do. So it seems super narrowly focused where it is all about getting a man but not really genuinely improving yourself. They do have a "Marriage Rules" edition....wonder what that says.

 

The book wasn't written in the 60s but I think the authors are channeling that. They also claim Kate Middleton got Prince William because she's a "Rules Girl", again I can see her being the type of woman who genuinely has confidence, genuinely was busy and not by the phone, knew her boundaries and worth and didn't give it all away too soon...but I doubt she sat around reading the book and following "The rules" .

Edited August 22, 2014 by MissBee

[C43]

I like your posts IRC because they bring up valid points. I posted my POV on another thread about this issue and my post got pulled. So you may never get to read this but here it goes.

 

Men want women to play "hard to get." It's somehow wired into their brain that if a women is too easy then they're not worth dating because they seem desperate. So when a woman gets a call from a man she has to do this balancing act game which she really rather not play but needs to do so. So maybe she'll wait a couple of hours to return a call or wait for him to call again. In the meantime, she's calling her girlfriends and talking endlessly about how the guy called and asking them when she should call back.

 

In other words: DATING SUCKS THE BIG ONE

Men who have a lot of options seem to like this.

[carhill]

I have a male friend that only does the one shot deal where he calls a woman, leaves a voicemail and that's it. Occasionally he'll do it twice, but if she doesn't return his call..he moves on.

 

Then she'd run into him at a Meetup and wonder "How come you didn't call?" and he'd be like "I did call, I even left a voicemail" then she said, "But you gave up so easily!"

 

This is a gift, and wrapped with a big bow. After awhile, a man doesn't even need the meet up part to understand the gift.

 

The way I learned was to watch the actions of women who did appear interested and with whom I ended up either dating awhile or having relationships with. I learned the signs that worked for my style.

 

For another man, his experience could be completely different. That's why 'some' women are like you describe, because they're all different. If their style doesn't match up with yours, miss!

[bathtub-row]

I'd say that these women are idiots. They're confusing the term 'giving up too easily' with basic manners. Giving up too easily refers to a situation where there's actually a relationship, something substantial other than a first date.

 

If you're a guy and you don't get a call back from one of these women, count yourself lucky.

[SJC2008]

Before I knew the "the dating game", I scared a woman away by calling her out that if she wasn't interested to let me know, don't blow me off. Looking back I don't care and I have a set of filters that I apply to try to meet a relatively healthy woman. 1) I call once and that's it. If she doesn't call me back, adios. I beat a woman with this once, I had erased her # and everything. She called with some lame excuse, we started talking again. It didn't work out due to different religions. 2) If a woman doesn't initiate contact with me before the 4th date, it's over. I don't mean first contact after a date but in general. The problem is that it's hard to meet someone who falls in the middle. They either blow you up or not at all lol.

 

There aren't many traditionl people out there. If a woman isn't initiating, she's not interested. Besides, because of the "dysfunctional" times we live in, most woman are chasers. Where do you think rules like never ask a woman to be exclusive come from? They wanna reign you in. It's backwards but that's the way it is. Lastly, most women aren't going to risk losing a guy they're smitten over by playing some stupid game.

[irc333]

I was actually allowing this post to go for a time in order to get to the REAL brunt of the issue.

 

This is why I think men, esp. after a certain age, get tired of pursuing and women are complaining how men don't "pursue" them in earnest anymore.

 

Why is this?

 

The fear of being labeled a "Stalker". I had a law abiding friend almost have an injunction filed against him for such a thing by his ex-girlfriend's mother (not the ex herself though..the mother just had a hair up her craw about him).

 

So men are on eggshells every time they think, "Should I call her again?" or "How many days I should wait before I call her again?"

 

The fear of "calling again" has been reinforced by being labeled a "stalker".

 

Women even use the word in jest, or as bragging rights, "Yeah, I think Brad's been stalking me, he's been posting comments on my Facebook at 3 a.m."

 

*Both girls laugh*

 

Just giving you fair warning, gentlemen.

[irc333]

I often to wonder, these married women who finally had their future husband ask them out 5 times before getting a Yes...how are their marriages...chances are SHE wears the pants in the family because he had to initially BEG her to go out with him.

 

Now that's he snagged her in wedlock, she's snagged him with indentured servitude.

 

 

 

Before I knew the "the dating game", I scared a woman away by calling her out that if she wasn't interested to let me know, don't blow me off. Looking back I don't care and I have a set of filters that I apply to try to meet a relatively healthy woman. 1) I call once and that's it. If she doesn't call me back, adios. I beat a woman with this once, I had erased her # and everything. She called with some lame excuse, we started talking again. It didn't work out due to different religions. 2) If a woman doesn't initiate contact with me before the 4th date, it's over. I don't mean first contact after a date but in general. The problem is that it's hard to meet someone who falls in the middle. They either blow you up or not at all lol.

 

There aren't many traditionl people out there. If a woman isn't initiating, she's not interested. Besides, because of the "dysfunctional" times we live in, most woman are chasers. Where do you think rules like never ask a woman to be exclusive come from? They wanna reign you in. It's backwards but that's the way it is. Lastly, most women aren't going to risk losing a guy they're smitten over by playing some stupid game.

[neowulf]

To me it seems to inform the expected "power" levels of the couple involved.

 

In other words, the women in those cases, wanted to "be ontop". The one with the lower level of interest = the one with the most sway in the relationship.

 

Your friend looks to have been chasing a more egalitarian relationship, so in the end they both signaled (even if subconsciously) what kind of relationship they were chasing.

 

Some women will settle for no less than being worshiped by their partners.

Others want something far more equal.

Other still are happy to be subservient.

 

It's a big world. The challenge is to figure out what "you" want and try to match that up with someone who wants what you're selling.