Long Term Effects of Bullying

[Airborne]

I agree with this. But I also think the instigating bully has dysfunction as well to be picking on others to make themselves feel better.

Sometimes for sure. Other times it can be something else. I've noticed around here many guys that frequently complain or whine about their situation get bullied occasionally. Some women see an unattractive trait like that and work to correct it using negative stimulus. Not sure it's anything to do with dysfunction on their part, or that they're somehow jealous of or threatened by the guy who can't get a date. It's just a natural mothering instinct. The same can apply to other situations as well.

 

The motivations for bullying are as diverse as the people who get bullied. It's unfortunate we have to always cast it in a completely negative light.

[Taramere]

So, does this mean that rape is just bullying...with a penis? I'm glad you cleared that up. I wonder what a police officer's reaction would be if someone said they were bullied with a penis.

 

In reality the person would likely word it along the lines of "I was bullied into having sex with this guy." Then the authorities would have to consider what bullying meant. Whether it was of a type that meant there was no legal consent. The following article considers consent:

 

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/osjcl/Articles/Volume2_1/Commentaries/Westen-PDF-11-29-04.pdf

 

You will see from that article (if you read it, and you might decide it's too much work) that unwillingly given consent may still in some circumstances be regarded as legal consent. There are plenty of cases where a person felt pressurised into sex, felt traumatised as a result but where what happened did not meet the legal definition of rape. That wouldn't preclude the from receiving assistance from a rape counselling centre but it does mean a lack of any sort of consequences for the person who bullied them into sex to a degree where they felt traumatised afterwards. Unless they're in a jurisdiction which allows for criminal prosecution of sexual harassment, or they raise a civil action for sexual harassment.

 

I think most people would agree that harassment = bullying. Sexual harassment can be far more than somebody making unwanted comments and advances. It can involve somebody using their position of power to obtain sexual favours from another person who doesn't want to perform those sexual favours, but realises that life might become quite intolerable for them if they don't.

 

You're free to take whatever view that feels right to you about what constitutes bullying. What you're not free to do is to impose those views on other people in order to invalidate their experiences and their right to post about them in threads about bullying. Which is what you did in your earlier post, and what I took issue with you about. This will be my last response to you on this thread, as I don't really want to encourage many more comments like the one I've quoted here. I don't think they're helpful or particularly appropriate contributions to discussion about a subject that is sensitive for many people.

[serial muse]

Some women see an unattractive trait like that and work to correct it using negative stimulus. Not sure it's anything to do with dysfunction on their part, or that they're somehow jealous of or threatened by the guy who can't get a date.

 

/=

 

It's just a natural mothering instinct.

 

?? :confused:

 

Those two things seem diametrically opposed, unless by "mother" you mean Joan Crawford.

 

I don't really understand your point, I guess...

 

It's unfortunate we have to always cast it in a completely negative light.

[carhill]

Perhaps part of the disconnect is the perception that bullying is discrete acts where, generally, in practice, it's a continuum.

 

As an example, using a man as the test dummy, three men hold a man down while another shoves a hammer handle up his ass, while calling him gay and suggesting that he like that. It's a discrete act of rape. The continuum happens when, with no overt physical acts or threats enacted, one of those four men says, in passing, 'How did you like that hammer up your ass? We can do it again, you know'.

 

That's the tone of bullying I was subjected to (not the hammer up the ass but other physical assaults and threats) where, even if the later words were not followed by any legally sanctionable battery, what we now know as assault (threat of violence) and terrorist threats were what were used to bully and intimidate. I was big so it was rarely one on one, rather a group. Unfortunately, my parents were ill-equipped to socialize me against such a threat. It simply didn't exist in their world. My dad certainly killed people in WW2 but he was completely non-violent; rarely even uttered a cross word.

 

I'm watching CNN right now as they show combat video of guys standing up and shooting directly at other guys and launching RPG's at them. That's the kind of mental focus that was tapped into as a result of the type of bullying I experienced. Those guys are doing it on the battlefield. Most men, even non-violent ones like myself, have that built into us. The focus to kill. If not for that bullying at a certain point in time, I doubt I'd ever have tapped into that. I'd probably be sitting here non-plussed by the pain and anger other members have shared. As with anything in life, we all react differently and process things differently because we're all different. What binds us together is life itself. It's fleeting. Ask the families of any of those guys I was just watching who end up a pile of dead goo on the ground. That's reality. If only we could learn to treat each other with more love and care, our differences notwithstanding. Absent direct conflicts with adult bullies, that's been my personal goal for decades. Perhaps that never would have happened if not for those early experiences, so positive things can come out of bullying too.

[MelodyRye]

Not to belittle bullying because it's awful and I've been guilty of doing that once when I was 17 (now I'm 21 and no I don't think about it 24/7 nor even want to talk about it anymore) but has society gotten way more sensitive nowadays?

 

Even to my grandparents, bullying is nothing new and has always existed since old times. My grandfather's younger brother was bullied by a couple classmates and so was my late uncle. However, there was no going to therapists for everything nor long sessions, there were few that would consider committing suicide and instead, they would focus on working, forming a family and simply leave that in the past and be in the present.

 

It's like the older generations were made a lot tougher and persistent.

Edited August 28, 2014 by MelodyRye

[amaysngrace]

Not to belittle bullying because it's awful and I've been guilty of doing that once when I was 17 (now I'm 21 and no I don't think about it 24/7 nor even want to talk about it anymore) but has society gotten way more sensitive nowadays?

 

Even to my grandparents, bullying is nothing new and has always existed since old times. My grandfather's younger brother was bullied by a couple classmates and so was my late uncle. However, there was no going to therapists for everything nor long sessions, there were few that would consider committing suicide and instead, they would focus on working, forming a family and simply leave that in the past and be in the present.

 

It's like the older generations were made a lot tougher and persistent.

 

So let me get this right...you're a past bully who blames other people for their sensitivity to being bullied?

 

How lovely of you.

[MelodyRye]

So let me get this right...you're a past bully who blames other people for their sensitivity to being bullied?

 

How lovely of you.

So I should continue thinking about it everyday even when the main person not only has long forgiven me but isn't even thinking about it nor even wants to talk about it either??

 

All I'm trying to see is things were different back then from now. Now everything is an ''Oh my life is miserable, I'm thinking of committing suicide now'' as if that was the only way out when that's not how it was in the older generations.

Edited August 29, 2014 by MelodyRye

[amaysngrace]

So I should continue thinking about it everyday even when the main person not only has long forgiven me but isn't even thinking about it nor even wants to talk about it either??

 

No but you shouldn't dismiss the effects of it by saying older generations were tougher and more persistent and people who are bullied are just too sensitive.

 

I'd rather strive for balance. Not overly sensitive and not overly insensitive either. You know....harmony...

[carhill]

After going through psychological counseling, I found that it wasn't so much being 'sensitive', though HSP did have some play IMO, it was more I had never been exposed to people being purposefully or accidentally cruel or violent with each other. It simply wasn't a feature of my family or early social circle. Additionally, I didn't have a sibling to 'fight' with. I think that bore scrutiny as well. I didn't learn to give and take the cutting and cruel remarks that go along with sibling interactions, balanced with each sibling 'sticking up' for each other when outsiders would do same.

 

When it comes down to making cruel remarks or thinking up ways to purposely hurt people, I still fail miserably. It's simply not part of my personality and thousands of posts here bear that out. If anything positive can be referred to, I'd say that is one aspect which has been a positive outcome, in that bullying didn't sway me to become what I experienced, except clearly and precisely with those who perpetrate(d) it. In other words, I'd sooner have a street brawl with a mean boss than go home and kick the dog or yell at my spouse. I deal with the threat or abuse directly, with that person at that time. I don't know how other folks who have experienced bullying feel about that but it's been almost like a religion, doing no harm to others who have shown respect and fair-handedness.

 

Anyway, it's easy to get bogged down in the semantics but the thread is about the long-term effects of bullying and those effects felt are valid for those individuals, whatever they might be. When you've seen one bullied person, you've seen one bullied person. That applies with any subject regarding our life experiences. Sometimes we find commonalities but, still, in the end, we're all individuals. That's why I don't paint bullies with a broad brush. They're all different too, in style, extent and longevity.

 

One poster made a really good point that the past is the past. I agree. In everyday life, it is, for myself. I focus on the now. However, that said, this thread requested perspective on the long-term effects of bullying, so I reflected on the past and brought the relevant aspects of it to the now, as opinion. In everyday life, I don't even think about it, unless someone directly threatens me, then CCW training kicks in and we have ourselves a situation. Otherwise, it's smiles and hugs and life goes on.

[MelodyRye]

No but you shouldn't dismiss the effects of it by saying older generations were tougher and more persistent and people who are bullied are just too sensitive.

 

I'd rather strive for balance. Not overly sensitive and not overly insensitive either. You know....harmony...

I've actually spoken to both my grand-uncle and late uncle (he passed away of cancer just a couple months ago) last december because somehow the topic of several individuals committed suicide as a result of bullying came up on tv once. Both actually thought the same too. Also, my great-uncle bumped into his mean bully once at a bar when we were in their early 20's but both of them actually talked, laughed for some time and continue drinking a couple more beers. In his words, he said along the lines of Past is past and most outgrew this and then he went on explaining that he would only send him to hell if he tried to continue to mess him with now in the present.

 

In a way, there is some truth to that. There are suddenly a lot more suicide rates and more feeling the need to apologize for everything (even if it's really a lame name calling said) today as a result of getting bullied than in the old times.

[amaysngrace]

I've actually spoken to both my grand-uncle and late uncle (he passed away of cancer just a couple months ago) last december because somehow the topic of several individuals committed suicide as a result of bullying came up on tv once. Both actually thought the same too. Also, my great-uncle bumped into his mean bully once at a bar but both of them actually talked, laughed for some time and continue drinking a couple more beers. In his words, he said along the lines of Past is past and most outgrew this and then he went on explaining that he would only send him to hell if he tried to continue to mess him with now in the present.

 

In a way, there is some truth to that. There are suddenly a lot more suicide rates and more feeling the need to apologize for everything (even if it's really a lame name calling said) today as a result of getting bullied than in the old times.

 

It's called evolution.

 

Some of the ways of the older generation is deemed unacceptable and dysfunctional by today's standards.

 

Also too, dysfunction breeds dysfunction so your grandpa and uncle being in agreement with another family member says absolutely nothing about whether it it is the best possible way of going about a situation.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your uncle though.

[bubbaganoosh]

Back in my day and I'm 66, closer to 67, we had bullies like there have always been but when it came to a head and enough was enough, you met up with your tormentor and you knocked the hell out of each other and I know, fighting doesn't solve a thing but the point was made that the bully pushed too far and now it's time to back his actions up and even if he kicked you butt, you still go a few in on him and he knew that maybe next time he would be the one on the losing end.

 

Then you had the parent factor. Back then, if a parent who had a kid that got in trouble, and another parent complained to them about their kid and his behavior, the kid got taken to the "proverbial wood shed" and he got his ass tanned real good.

 

There wasn't any of this crap where parents were sue happy because what was important to the parents of the kid getting in trouble was HIS ACTIONS AND BEHAVIOR WERE A REFLECTION OF THE TYPE OF HOME LIFE AND PARENTS HE HAD and that was the most important thing the parents were concerned with.

 

Today the problem is the school wont do anything to punish the kid for fear that Mumsy and Daddy will be bringing their lawyer with them and that half the parents think their rotten kid walks on water and the real kicker is at one time, the kid that got bullied at least had his home for safety but now with all the electronic ways to communicate, the bully doesn't have to be in the kids face. He can be at his own home sitting on the toilet texting his bullying straight to the kid.

 

All in all, it's the parents who are responsible for the way their kids act in public and maybe if they were hit with a law suit that would put them in the poor house, every time their kid would go for a second helping of food, he/she would get a boot up their backside just as a reminder.

Edited August 29, 2014 by bubbaganoosh

[Taramere]

Today the problem is the school wont do anything to punish the kid for fear that Mumsy and Daddy will be bringing their lawyer with them and that half the parents think their rotten kid walks on water and the real kicker is at one time, the kid that got bullied at least had his home for safety but now with all the electronic ways to communicate, the bully doesn't have to be in the kids face. He can be at his own home sitting on the toilet texting his bullying straight to the kid.

 

All in all, it's the parents who are responsible for the way their kids act in public and maybe if they were hit with a law suit that would put them in the poor house, every time their kid would go for a second helping of food, he/she would get a boot up their backside just as a reminder.

 

I absolutely agree with you. People talk about how kids today are far too wishy washy in dealing with bullying, but they're facing the kind of challenges that kids 30+ years ago just didn't have to deal with. The use of social media to keep the pressure on these kids constant. The usual smart answer to that is "well, they should get off social media" which is completely unrealistic, given the part it plays in people maintaining contact with others in this day and age. A teen who stops using social media is just going to become even more isolated.

 

Plus, their decision to stop using social media won't stop bullies from using it to post up humiliating commentary, pictures, gossip etc about them. That seems to be a large part of the behaviour that has resulted in suicide being on the increase amongst young people. The use of social media to make their humiliation very, very public - and to expose it to a wide audience. The kind of coverage, in some cases, that celebrities get (and we all know how messed up celebrities often are as a result of constant intrusions into their privacy). Yet we expect young people to somehow handle it.

 

Children and teens aren't in a position to change the world. The best they can do is try to fit in to the status quo as best they can, while holding on to whatever ethics their parents have taught them. A grandparent telling them to go into school and give a bullies a good hammering is clueless about the reality of bullies having links with gangs and not being averse to using weapons. Or else having the kid charged with assault because "it was only verbal teasing, and we're entitled to speak freely without being hit for it. Nobody has the right not to be offended..." These kids are being brought up on an internet which is run by hackers, trolls and people with a very strong sense of their own rights and their fellow bullies' rights, but a very shaky sense of other people's.

 

Here's a classic example of the mentality:

 

Infamous Reddit troll loses job after Gawker expose - Salon.com

 

People who value as sacrosanct their right to violate other people's privacy (posting pictures taken of unsuspecting teenage girls onto the web for masturbation purposes - and that particular troll also ran a subforum where crime scene pictures of dead teens were circulated for the same purposes) and who react with fury and an outraged sense of victimhood when anybody fights back against them. Which is exactly what you're saying. The kind of morality that prevailed, back when fighting back actually worked, has been chipped away at.

 

The troll bullies' eternal cry, in defence of their fondness for verbal and emotional bullying, is that nobody has the right to not be offended - and with that, they give themselves a licence to say anything they want to anybody. To resist any suggestion that they should apply some boundaries to their own behaviour. Some of these people are parents and, as with the Gawker troll, even grandparents. Imagine the kind of kids they're rearing? Imagine how quickly they would leg it up to the school to have a kid expelled for fighting back against their verbal abuse spewing, free-speech embracing offspring?

 

That Gawker story really encapsulates the mentality. This bunch of people behaving in a pretty much sociopathic way online, who cry foul when one of their number is unmasked. As though decency and a sense of fair play are suddenly important ingredients of who they are. That's the classic reaction of the bully, who believes they ought to be allowed to bully and play dirty with impunity...but who embraces victimhood with startling eagerness the moment the tables are turned.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Taramere

[Leegh]

Bullying in families is also quite common. For example, if a sibling is four or five years older than a younger child, a physically smaller sibling can be a prime candidate for bullying. In addition, if the older child was bullied in school, for example, he/she may bully the younger sibling. Also, if an older child is born, for example, with a physical impairment, and requires wearing a leg brace or a brace, etc. of some kind, he/she is much more likely to be bullied in school, and this older child may bully a younger sibling to get retaliation. Also, if a younger sibling is very cute and the older sibling is not attractive, then there may be motivation for bullying. I'm not saying this happens in all cases, and by no means that all older siblings bully younger siblings, but it can happen in some cases. Bullying may be a reason why some people only romantically like people that do not like them, as "love" feels like to them as not being treated well, and feeling "unloveable", as a youth.

[Anela]

My sister is younger than I am, but physically much stronger. I didn't bully her - in fact, as an adult, she thanked me for being such a good older sister.

 

She kept accusing me of being jealous, in recent years (I wasn't, and still am not), and thought she had every right to do her best to dehumanize me.

[dragon_fly_7]

While I agree with Melody, I also think more are committing suicide because of the social media and the bullies are now even getting worse by telling you to commit suicide.

 

My story as a woman born in 1987 when social media wasn't fully developed:

I was teased practically everyday from grades 4th-8th (though in 8th grade it was way less and not as bad but still) but the good news is I didn't have to hear from them via text messages nor see them near my house. When I was kid, facebook still didn't exist and while cell phones started rising, not everyone had one. By the time I was nearly 12 and for the next years, I was using the older version of the computer (the heavy ones with a floppy disk). In addition, I was never told ''Just kill yourself already'' by my classmates.

 

I only heard about myspace when I was in my junior year of HS and later on it was facebook; I didn't even create my own account till shortly after graduating. Fortunately, I never got bullied during my HS years so I never got to experienced what would soon become the full new version of cyber bullies nor online stalkers. Not sure how I would have then turned out; probably not as strong and indifferent towards my bullies as now.

 

Overall, my time was when social media and technology was at its teen years; now obviously it's an fully developed adult. With my 12 year-old brother on the other hand, we have to supervise him whenever he gets online. It's scary to think there are more online stalkers nowadays.

Edited August 30, 2014 by dragon_fly_7