Long Term Effects of Bullying

[TigerLilly78]

Bullying is never good be in school or adulthood or even on line even here on LS people think others have no feelings or emotions that the cruel things said do not hurt because we are all just words on a screen this place can be a great place to get advice and vent.

 

But it can also be depressing at times when its constantly aimed at you the sad thing is most who come here are looking to vent or for some sort of support its not suppose to be one of the reasons already vulnerable people are sent into a deeper depression..

[newmoon]

i was never bullied.

 

my bf was, very badly - he has a disability. he is 44, still scarred by the things people said or did, but it's frustrating. what happens in high school or elementary school (in his case anyway) is YEARS behind him. if you still feel hurt and sad about stuff that happened so long ago it's a personal issue; some inability to let go and move on. it's depressing for me to hear his hurts and stories because it was so long ago that it doesn't seem like it should matter. those people are no longer around, so how can their words still shape how you see yourself and live your life. like it or not there is a weakness in someone who is bullied and the fact people who are bullied have a hard time letting go of it just shows how weak they are. you can't let the words of other people define who you are for a lifetime, you have to move on and forget it. or go get some help for the issues you have.

[carhill]

I was just reading another thread regarding a sexless marriage and noted a comment from a member about certain aspects of sexual activity triggering negative memories of past sexual abuse, apparently during the person's childhood. This caused me to remember the dynamics in our M where otherwise innocuous (to me!) actions by myself would cause flashbacks or triggers in my exW due to her history of rape and sexual abuse and I had to communicate and learn how to avoid those triggers and empathize with my then wife's feelings surrounding them.

 

So, I'm curious here. What about a man getting physically beaten seems OK but a woman who's abused or raped deserves empathy or sympathy or care? Is it because men, in general, don't deserve sympathy or care or is it because we should be superhuman and simply endure pain without comment and suffer in silence or, better, not feel anything?

 

I've always been fascinated with how this dynamic of sympathy and empathy and 'man up' works. To me, such dismissal of the feelings of men has always struck me as another form of bullying. I certainly know that the dismissal of the feelings of women has been stated repeatedly on these forums as offensive and bullying and even incitement to violence. Fascinating stuff.

 

How do I handle bullies today? I simply give them one verbal warning to step back and disengage and then CCW training kicks in. So far, they've moved back and everyone goes home alive. I don't screw around with such matters anymore and, in some ways, I don't particularly like the person interactions with them made me into. I'd much rather be pleasant and friendly with everyone.

[Anela]

 

So, I'm curious here. What about a man getting physically beaten seems OK but a woman who's abused or raped deserves empathy or sympathy or care? Is it because men, in general, don't deserve sympathy or care or is it because we should be superhuman and simply endure pain without comment and suffer in silence or, better, not feel anything?

 

I've always been fascinated with how this dynamic of sympathy and empathy and 'man up' works. To me, such dismissal of the feelings of men has always struck me as another form of bullying. I certainly know that the dismissal of the feelings of women has been stated repeatedly on these forums as offensive and bullying and even incitement to violence. Fascinating stuff.

 

 

I've never said that it's okay, and I don't know many people who would. Where was that stated?

[Anela]

That's not what the post is about. Your response underscores that. Now watch the learned women on this forum argue who said what versus showing empathy and care for the feelings of a man. I have the thread list lined up and we can certainly go down that road if you want to debate it.

 

More typical female bullying. A personality trait I despise. Specifically.

 

Did you think I was doing a tit-for-tat with my posts? I was only responding with my own experience. I didn't say that you still wanted to kill people.

 

Bullying isn't only physical - I dealt with some of that, but I remember one specific night earlier this year, when I made one comment to my sister, and she was rude to me in response. I responded with something to that fact - that I hadn't been nasty, and she just kept the nastiness running - a stream of it at me. My Dad heard it, and told me that he had - he told mum, who was ready to blame me, as usual (in the past two + years, she became an alcoholic, and was always on her side when she was drunk).

 

My sister had me sitting on the floor against the dishwasher, screaming, ears covered by my arms - I was screaming that everything I'd done my best to avoid - everything in life (drama, bullying, men who had no respect for women, etc) - she had brought into my life and my home. She wouldn't stop - she kept on at me, and on at me, and then sneered at me like I was pathetic. I was losing my mind, and I was 38 at the time. Last September, she was pulling me out of a room by my hair - she ripped part of my top off. March of last year, she hobbled me for five days, hurt my arm (it *still* gives me trouble), and broke my glasses (this is all obviously a return to the physical), and yet most people were being nasty *to me*. Respecting bridezilla, because she was polite to everyone else - unless they supported me.

 

For the most part, it was verbal, and her disrespecting boundaries, but I dealt with this in childhood, too. But I never said that it was okay to bully a man, and I haven't bullied you in this thread. Neither has HeatherH.

[carhill]

Sorry, here was the words I was responding to:

 

if you still feel hurt and sad about stuff that happened so long ago it's a personal issue; some inability to let go and move on. it's depressing for me to hear his hurts and stories because it was so long ago that it doesn't seem like it should matter. those people are no longer around, so how can their words still shape how you see yourself and live your life. like it or not there is a weakness in someone who is bullied and the fact people who are bullied have a hard time letting go of it just shows how weak they are. you can't let the words of other people define who you are for a lifetime, you have to move on and forget it. or go get some help for the issues you have.

 

The thrust of my post was do we say these words to a woman who's been raped or sexually molested or otherwise abused?

 

Should i have spoken those words to my now exW in the name of 'helping' her? Is that the kind of person we want to be in life? If the answer is 'no', than that 'no' is equal opportunity.

 

There are some other issues in play but I'll leave those on the table for now. My apologies for any misunderstanding.

[Taramere]

Did you think I was doing a tit-for-tat with my posts? I was only responding with my own experience. I didn't say that you still wanted to kill people.

 

Bullying isn't only physical - I dealt with some of that, but I remember one specific night earlier this year, when I made one comment to my sister, and she was rude to me in response. I responded with something to that fact - that I hadn't been nasty, and she just kept the nastiness running - a stream of it at me. My Dad heard it, and told me that he had - he told mum, who was ready to blame me, as usual (in the past two + years, she became an alcoholic, and was always on her side when she was drunk).

 

My sister had me sitting on the floor against the dishwasher, screaming, ears covered by my arms - I was screaming that everything I'd done my best to avoid - everything in life (drama, bullying, men who had no respect for women, etc) - she had brought into my life and my home. She wouldn't stop - she kept on at me, and on at me, and then sneered at me like I was pathetic. I was losing my mind, and I was 38 at the time. Last September, she was pulling me out of a room by my hair - she ripped part of my top off. March of last year, she hobbled me for five days, hurt my arm (it *still* gives me trouble), and broke my glasses (this is all obviously a return to the physical), and yet most people were being nasty *to me*. Respecting bridezilla, because she was polite to everyone else - unless they supported me.

 

Anela, is there any way for you to move out of there and into your own accommodation? You deserve so much better than this. I think you would bloom in your own space.

[Taramere]

Never mind

[Haydn]

A child can defend themselves against abuse? A child takes personal responsibilty?

 

A child relies on an adult to protect them and to take care of them.

 

 

A woman is overpowered by a man who is obviously much stronger than her and rapes her. She did fight and she probably lost. She should be raped because she stood up or failed to overpower a stronger male???

 

What exactly is your point?

 

yes, yes and yes. it comes down to taking personal responsibility for what happens to you. don't want to be bullied? bully back and show your backbone. it's all well and good to be a lover, but sometimes you gotta be a fighter and if you won't stand up for yourself, well.. wow. who the heck can you stand up for?

[Anela]

Taramere: she moved out in April. I didn't have to deal with that for years - we were fine. Argued occasionally, but nothing physical, and we always got over it.

 

I couldn't move out, but I'm going to make sure that it never happens again. I didn't mean to make it sound like it never stops - most people are great. But I was definitely living in an alternate universe for a while, and carrying a lot of shame for being unable to remove myself from the situation.

[newmoon]

A child can defend themselves against abuse? A child takes personal responsibilty?

 

A child relies on an adult to protect them and to take care of them.

 

 

A woman is overpowered by a man who is obviously much stronger than her and rapes her. She did fight and she probably lost. She should be raped because she stood up or failed to overpower a stronger male???

 

What exactly is your point?

 

a child in school or high school can speak up, they don't need a parent, so yeah, they should be defending themselves. and my original post never went beyond just mentioning high school bullying, so i have no idea where abuse and rape entered into anything. i didn't mention any of that and have no opinion about it, besides i wouldn't consider that stuff bullying, that is abuse.

[carhill]

a child in school or high school can speak up, they don't need a parent, so yeah, they should be defending themselves. and my original post never went beyond just mentioning high school bullying, so i have no idea where abuse and rape entered into anything. i didn't mention any of that and have no opinion about it, besides i wouldn't consider that stuff bullying, that is abuse.

When I was assaulted, I did speak up, to anyone who'd listen. The answer was 'grow up' and 'boys will be boys'. I had to resort to the same kind of violence to quell those criminals who were given a pass because they were 'boys.'

 

I find your language, as quoted, to be highly offensive and just another example of the kind of shyte that goes on in the world in the name of 'love'.

Edited August 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Anela]

When I was assaulted, I did speak up, to anyone who'd listen. The answer was 'grow up' and 'boys will be boys'. I had to resort to the same kind of violence to quell those criminals who were given a pass because they were 'boys.'

 

I spoke up, too - at school, and at home (over the past few years). The teachers did nothing, and said, "oh, those girls wouldn't do that" - they didn't listen, and the teacher I spoke to, with mum present, had me crying - so mum supported me in leaving. Homeschooling wasn't allowed at that time, at my age (fifteen), so I dropped out, and I was lucky enough that we moved over here, where it wasn't an issue. But I was still agoraphobic.

 

It was known what was happening here, too.

 

a child in school or high school can speak up, they don't need a parent, so yeah, they should be defending themselves. and my original post never went beyond just mentioning high school bullying, so i have no idea where abuse and rape entered into anything. i didn't mention any of that and have no opinion about it, besides i wouldn't consider that stuff bullying, that is abuse.

 

Persistent bullying is abuse. I was suicidal because of it, and their whole thing is done to dehumanize you - goodness knows why they want to do it in the first place.

Edited August 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Robert]

There was some clean up done, some posts were deleted that were considered not posted within the guidelines here, thanks

[Taramere]

Unless we want this thread closed, we should probably leave rape out of the bullying discussion. I know it isn't just you, but I'm not going to quote everyone.

 

Perhaps I'm being very dim here, and perhaps the reasons are blindingly obvious to everybody other than me, but I really don't understand the rationale behind your confident and authoritative sounding insistence that people ought to leave the subject of rape out of this discussion.

 

This is a section about abuse. Bullying is abuse. Rape is abuse. Rape is bullying with a sexual component...and over the past few years we've seen various instances where people were not only sexually bullied, but the details were broadcast over the internet to extend and intensify the bullying. To prolong their humiliation. In some cases resulting in suicide.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/youth-and-tell/201106/the-blame-game-rape-and-bullying-in-teen-america

 

Take the case last year of fourteen-year-old Samantha Kelly who tragically took her own life after it became known that she was raped by an 18-year-old male acquaintance. Kelly was not only brutally bullied at school by her peers but she was outed on Twitter by the same teen who sexually assaulted her. He not only blamed the assault on her but he also tweeted how she has ruined his life.

 

The experience of having been targeted for bullying isn't something that some select group of people have ownership over. There are many, many people out there who have had that experience. Whether it's bullying or abuse by carers, by siblings, by schoolmates, workmates, partners. Sexualised bullying, or physical violence, verbal abuse, psychological tearing down, being deliberately ostracised for no reason....these are all forms of bullying. False allegations too - I'm sure, since rape has been mentioned and you disapprove of that, you would want some reference to the fact that people have and do make false allegations of sexual abuse. Sometimes for attention, sometimes as part of targeting other people for bullying. However, most of the incidents of cyber bullying among school age children (where there has been an allegation of rape or sexual abuse involved) seem to target the alleged victims rather than alleged perpetrators.

 

Where there's a sexual component to bullying, it can be even more difficult for victims to speak out - especially given the strong possibility of speaking out leading to further bullying and victim blaming, dodgy "human rights " forums disclosing complainer's details online so that the world and its dog can harass them. That kind of thing is being used to silence people further from talking about this very painful form of bullying. So shutting down discussion of rape on a thread about bullying, in a section about abuse, is something that I do feel a bit compelled to challenge you on. Some types of bullying constitute criminal offences, others don't. Some, it may not be entirely clear whether they've crossed the line to criminal behaviour...but they can all have a terrible impact on the targets.

 

I don't doubt it might be useful, in discussing bullying and its effects, to have separate threads dealing with different types of bullying...but as this thread doesn't specify a particular form of bullying beyond mentioning that which children specifically face - and from groups of bullies - I think it's on topic for people to mention bullying that contains sexual elements. Especially as, unfortunately, it seems to be on the increase in schools.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_7811000/7811468.stm

 

Generally, you seem to be making some distinction between bullying and abuse. I don't think there is a distinction. Bullying and abuse are pretty much the same thing.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Taramere

[amaysngrace]

Bullying and abuse are pretty much the same thing.

 

I agree but I would think it'd be way worse psychologically for a child to be abused by the very people who are suppose to protect the child than being bullied by peers.

 

I think if a child discloses the information to a trusted adult that they are being bullied and the adult does not intervene on the child's behalf if the child is unable to take matters into their own hands then it's an even clearer case of abuse.

 

Neglect is abuse and if a child isn't able to take up for themselves it's a parents job to see that it stops even if it just empowering that child by getting them to a healthy level of their own self-esteem.

 

Me telling my child to attack back constituted neglect on my part. I really did not understand how little she cared about herself and she believed the bullies were correct to disregard her and her feelings.

 

My lack of understanding of my child's needs only reaffirmed those same feelings inside herself.

 

Neglect is abuse on the opposite side of the spectrum that bullying is abuse.

 

When I was younger I got picked on and stood up to those girls. I never told my parents about it because I took care of it myself.

 

I've learned that if a child speaks up to an adult it's most likely because the child is unable to take care of it themselves.

 

Help them.

[carhill]

In California, if a person has the reasonable belief that another person intends to assault/batter them, and that includes sexually, or uses the inducement of fear by threat, which in and of itself is assault, our codes allow for the use of deadly force to be used to repel that threat, so long as the victim has a reasonable belief that they are in danger. Hence, my prior example, now redacted, which I was using to make a point, if in real life, would be considered a threat, possible rising to a terrorist threat, and is actionable, both criminally, and use of force, even deadly force, in self-defense is permitted. If I was threatening someone like that in real life, they could kill me and the justice system would back them up. When I was a young person, it was normal life and, by example, no one really cared. That's how times have changed and, IMO, for the better.

 

I had to learn a bunch of this stuff during CCW training since someone who carries has to be very aware of the laws which govern the use of deadly force.

 

So, extrapolating from the past, when knocked down, kicked and having my bicycle stolen, I could have shot those perps dead and been cleared on the grounds of self-defense in the commission of battery and robbery.

 

The pattern of the day was induce fear through physical assault and then use that fear to intimidate the victim.

 

Times have, in general, changed and most young people don't have to deal with that kind of peer integration gauntlet. However, if I were to observe such an act, self-defense laws also permit a CCW to use deadly force in the defense of another, so I have no problem wading in and taking out any such perpetrators today. The earth is a better place without them on it. That's a marked long-term effect of bullying that would never have occurred if not for the choices those particular individuals made at those particular times in history. To be clear, they made the choices to become violent and abusive, so they pay the price. I'm simply the messenger.

 

As a community parent, I've always advised young people to 'nip it in the bud' when verbal bullying is encountered because it rarely, IME, remains static, rather escalates over time and without consequences unless addressed. Today, report it to the appropriate authorities and tell any trusted adult. If the perpetrators can be re-educated as to proper human interaction, that's preferable. If not, take them out of society, one way or another, before they seriously injure or kill someone or induce emotional states leading to self-harm, like suicide.

 

Lastly, while I might not be my exW's biggest cheerleader, I had a lot of respect for her experiencing the horrors or rape and abuse as a teenager and still seeking to function as a healthy adult, and she did, largely. However, her triggers would sometimes come out of nowhere and I had to be quite sensitive to them. That's another long-term effect of such abuses, including bullying, which she also experienced. Even with counseling and a lot of positive life experiences and being in a purportedly loving M, things still got to her and often from seemingly unrelated places. A mannerism, a smell, a word, even a dream, could trigger a flashback. As a man who's never experienced such things, I'll never be able to know or remotely understand what she and other rape/molestation survivors went through and how they feel. The best I can do is empathize and seek to avoid triggers where known and offer support as seen needed or requested. The same applies to bullying and I think that's instructive to those who have never experienced it or for whom it wasn't an emotionally debilitating experience. You're fortunate. May god and life continue to grant you good fortune.

[Taramere]

I agree but I would think it'd be way worse psychologically for a child to be abused by the very people who are suppose to protect the child than being bullied by peers.

 

I think if a child discloses the information to a trusted adult that they are being bullied and the adult does not intervene on the child's behalf if the child is unable to take matters into their own hands then it's an even clearer case of abuse.

 

Neglect is abuse and if a child isn't able to take up for themselves it's a parents job to see that it stops even if it just empowering that child by getting them to a healthy level of their own self-esteem.

 

Me telling my child to attack back constituted neglect on my part. I really did not understand how little she cared about herself and she believed the bullies were correct to disregard her and her feelings.

 

I think you're being rather hard on yourself, Grace. Neglect would be if you said something like "oh toughen up and get over it". You gave the advice you thought best and hoped would work.

 

Advising somebody on a strategy for managing bullying is far from easy. My dad gave me the same advice years ago when I was having a difficult time with a girl at school. He basically told me to punch her, and promised that I wouldn't get a row if the school expelled me. I'm not joking, that was his advice. It flicked some sort of button in me. For once I absolutely couldn't wait for the weekend to be over. I was just desperate to get into that school and give that girl the hiding of her life. As much as I didn't really know how to deal with bitchy little comments, and smirks, and asides, and the odd bit of corridor shoving, I was absolutely confident in my ability to cut loose and kick the crap out of her, and I had minimal concern - no concern actually - about the possibility of sustaining some injuries in the process. So I went into school and I was fair buzzing and crackling with energy, but having to try to keep a lid on it. Finally the moment came.

 

She walked down some stairs with some friends, past a class we were waiting to get into. I was full of adrenalin, and stared at her in a way where it would be stupid to even ask "are you trying to start something?" because it's so blatantly obvious the person is. She made a few verbal cracks at me, but was a bit more muted than usual, then her group went into the cloakroom. I told my friends I needed to go to the loo, followed her group in there, said a few words to her and then I lost my nerve at the notion of actually hitting somebody because it seemed so wrong. So I gave her the lightest tap on the face you could imagine, and of course she laughed and sneered. That was all I needed to be switched back "on". It wasn't a girly, scratchy thing. I gave her a full force punch, and then another - and I don't know if she even tried to fight back at any point but even though we were the same size, I was just so full of angry, excited energy that she didn't stand a chance - and her friends just stood by looking shocked.

 

Then, when she was running away, she banged her face on a pipe which left her with a black eye. Of course she blamed me for the black eye afterwards, and was probably severely pissed off that I just went ahead and took the credit for it. Anyway, it goes without saying that her mother rushed to the school to make a complaint. It's the thing about bullies. They're never afraid to speak up and grab that victim role for themselves. But on the other hand she did have a point since it was, I think, an unprecedented act of violence in that school. So I went to the headmistress's office...but I didn't get expelled. She was an old maverick of a woman, who - while giving me a pep talk about not losing my temper - gave out a vibe of "Good on you, I'd have done the same thing myself, back in the day." Certainly she said something along the lines of "I remember what it's like to be a girl and to have a hot temper, but you must learn to control it or other people will use it to control you."

 

Sound advice really, and exactly the kind of person you want to be in charge, in that situation. So I didn't even get as much as a detention, and the other girl came out of the headmistress's office in tears after being pretty much told she'd had it coming. However, there were some consequences. I enjoyed a bit of notoriety and new found popularity. For a week or so there was a spate of girls getting physical with eachother during spats. It was a lesson in how one incident like that can spark a more violent environment generally. It did, fortunately, all get quashed fairly quickly. The other thing was that I'd learned this wholly unrealistic lesson from my dad. That if you were getting bullied, it was okay to just go ballistic and basically transform yourself into a violent temporary psychopath.

 

I mean it was all there in me. Not just the fearlessness in terms of "I don't care how badly I might get injured in the process or what else the consequences are, I'm going to have that bitch". Also a sort of glee. It wasn't just righteous anger and defence. Once I had set on teaching that girl a lesson, I was excited and happy about the prospect. Looking forward to Monday when I could make it all happen. It was way beyond just defending myself from a bit of bullying. In drama triangle terms, I made the transition from victim to persecutor and went way over the top in doing so.

 

And the thing was that I had nobody telling me that I'd gone over the top, other than the headmistress and my form teacher (and even they seemed to be conveying some element of approval - I mean this girl was notorious for being one of the nasty, most spoilt characters in the school). Suddenly I was that bully figure that nobody's challenging. Nobody's saying "we understand you were hurting, but you went too far". But I knew I'd gone too far. That I'd been disproportionate...and also that you just can't react like that every time somebody gives you a hard time. Yet all this approval was coming in my direction for doing something I knew very well was wrong. I could see, in amongst that, how bullies are born.

 

In this day and age, I wouldn't have got away with it. One thing in the old fashioned environment my school was then, where violence was deemed unladylike and uncouth but certainly not nutty. Nowadays, I'd have been excluded and probably sent to an educational psychologist. Then I'd have returned and been bullied relentlessly (and psychologically, of course) for being an out of control nutter. I did take one thing from it, though. You can't lose control of course, but it's helpful to experience that sense of glee at the prospect of a confrontation. It energises you, and it makes you buzz in a way that the person you intend to confront will quickly pick up on. That girl picked up on it that day, and she didn't really want a confrontation with me. The couple of verbal cracks she threw out were just a face saving response to all my non verbal aggression, and I should have let it go. We're basically just like any other animal that will, however tough, tend to avoid where possible potentially injurious situations with rivals or difficult prey.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Taramere

[Taramere]

So, extrapolating from the past, when knocked down, kicked and having my bicycle stolen, I could have shot those perps dead and been cleared on the grounds of self-defense in the commission of battery and robbery.

 

Even if your life was not in danger? I've mulled over whether to say anything here, and it will probably get deleted, but I'll go for it anyway....

 

In most places, people are permitted to use whatever force is reasonable in the situation as they see it (ie if you think somebody's going to kill or rape you, and you have no way of escaping, then do whatever you have to to stop them). Let's say that you encountered the sort of situation you're talking about, took out those kids and went to criminal trial for it. Let's say that the prosecutor did a very detailed search on you and found these posts on LS. He would be telling the jury something along these lines:

 

"This isn't a person who acted in a way that might seem disproportionate to you and I, but that occurred in the heat of the moment and without time to think. This is somebody who has talked about scenarios just like this one, on internet forums. This is somebody who, you could say, has been waiting for an opportunity like this. To, as he has put it, "take out the bullies." That is far, far removed from the situation where a person in a panic, who isn't thinking clearly and who is convinced that their life is in great danger, pulls the trigger in a situation which with the benefit of hindsight does not sound nearly threatening enough to justify the use of deadly force."

 

Now you could argue Californian law and say that actually people are permitted to kill in situations where the worst that's likely to happen to them is that they'll sustain a bit of bruising and maybe a superficial cut or two. Maybe you'd be right. Personally I don't think it's worth anybody taking the gamble of shooting dead a few kids because they see them shoving another child off his bike - then going to trial to see whether the law supports their actions. We might just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

It's right to get angry if you're being bullied and abused. It's right to stand up for yourself, or to tell somebody if you can't. To take up self defence classes that will not only give you techniques to defend yourself better in a potentially violent situation - but that will give you the confidence to walk that bit taller and fend potential pests off with a "not worth your while, mate - you certainly won't escape unscathed" look. But, a sense of proportion has to be retained. A lot of the worst bullies and abusers out there - the mass killers, rapists, psychopaths rotting away in prison - will remain absolutely convinced to their dying day that they were the true victims, and that their alleged victims had whatever they did to them coming. They'll be convinced of that because anything and everything can, for them, trigger memories of violence perpetrated against them historically. As far as they're concerned, anybody who happens to trigger those memories (whether deliberately or inadvertently) deserves the worst they can inflict upon them.

 

That is not a road for bullying victims to go down. It's not right, it's not justifiable. I let my anger, shame and sense of humiliation about the mean behaviour of a silly cow at my school drive me to behave like a wild animal. By reacting disproportionately, I became the bully. The villain. It's as important for victims of bullying to avoid going down that road as it is for them to learn effective ways of standing up for themselves and seeing off bullies.

 

Please...don't promote this message that killing people is the way to alleviate the feelings of shame, anger and injustice that bullying can leave people with. It's not a responsible message at all. There have been far, far too many instances of people running amok with a gun and killing totally innocent people because they felt that as bullying victims they had special victim's rights to react as violently as they felt like reacting.

 

And on that note, despite the various instances in which people who were or saw themselves as victims of bullying ended up going on a shooting spree...it hasn't changed a thing. Those incidents have not removed the problem of bullying. Letting people arm themselves with guns, and end other people's lives for reasons less than "I was protecting my life/somebody else's life" does not seem to have resulted in the US having a lower incidence of bullying than that which occurs in other Western nations.

[Taramere]

Sure, this section is for abuse, but this thread in particular was supposed to be about the long term effects of bullying. If you want to talk about rape that bad, I would suggest starting another thread.

 

Yes, this is a thread about bullying and the after effects. Bullying can take many different forms. Physical, emotional, verbal and sexual. The main organisations out there dealing with bullying all recognise that. You don't have to participate in discussing that area of bullying if you don't wish to. People mentioning that form of bullying certainly doesn't preclude others from focusing on the form of bullying they personally have dealt with or feel they can contribute to discussion about.

 

Nobody should be excluded from this discussion because they encountered the "wrong" kind of bullying by another poster's subjective standards. Or excluded because another poster doesn't agree that what happened to them constitutes bullying. And as far as suggesting that I badly want or need to talk about rape goes - that's crass and unnecessary. It also misses the point that I didn't actually raise the subject. I merely support other people's right to do so in the context of handling long term bullying effects.

 

In any event, it's really down to the thread starter to specify what this thread aims to focus on. If she comes back and says "look, I really don't want people to raise the subject of rape or sexualised bullying in this thread" then I will certainly respect that. It's her thread, after all.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Taramere

[Airborne]

I forget who but someone in one special forces memoir I read mentioned many guys in there were subject to some form of abuse as a child. It seems to have contributed to their ability to persevere through conditions the average man could not. Made them stronger and more determined. It worked out for them.

 

I was bullied a little as a kid but by the time high school came around it had mostly subsided even though I was heavy. I would stand around and watch the skinny guys make the other fat kids do the truffle shuffle but they wouldn't dare with me. They knew it wouldn't fly and respected me for it.

 

With bullying there's usually some form of social dysfunction in place that allows the bullying to occur in the first place. You don't have any real friends to protect you, don't know how to deal with confrontation, etc etc. It's more likely that dysfunction is the main contributing factor to being unhappy in adulthood than some distant memories of bullying as a child. Because if you kept getting bullied you probably never overcame it.

[amaysngrace]

With bullying there's usually some form of social dysfunction in place that allows the bullying to occur in the first place. You don't have any real friends to protect you, don't know how to deal with confrontation, etc etc. It's more likely that dysfunction is the main contributing factor to being unhappy in adulthood than some distant memories of bullying as a child. Because if you kept getting bullied you probably never overcame it.

 

I agree with this. But I also think the instigating bully has dysfunction as well to be picking on others to make themselves feel better.

 

If victims of bullying can grow up and realize that then maybe they can reach a place of forgiveness and get past it on their own.

 

You don't forgive for others...you forgive for yourself.

[Taramere]

People get bullied for all sorts of reasons. Some stand out as weak and easy to target, others might stand out as strong and therefore a potential threat that needs to be quashed. Some get bullied out of jealousy. Bullying is rife in competitive environments. The girl I had problems with at school was, like me, involved in eventing. We were both competitive, but her competitiveness was unfocused and came out all over the place in bitchy and ultimately unproductive ways instead of being stored up and channeled into special events. Which I think is often the case with bullies, and why they often don't reach their potential (that girl was a better rider than me, but she didn't have the level of competitive intensity and determination that resulted in me beating her so often).

 

In most cases I've been bullied, my view rightly or wrongly has tended to be "they're jealous/threatened by me". Which I might initially try to deal with by responding nicely and being less of a threat - but bullies tend to perceive that as weakness (or else they feel patronised by your niceness), so sooner or later you usually have to get confrontational with people like that, and if you have a competitive and aggressive streak to you the moment of confrontation is not entirely unenjoyable. We can all fall prey to the pull of drama.

 

I remember watching a tennis match where Romana Tabak was trying to psyche Laura Robson out with various dirty tactics to the point where the crowd was booing her. The more she tried to do it, the more intense and focused Laura Robson was getting..and of course she (LR) won the match. I bet she relished the victory all the more, on account of Tabak's behaviour during the match. I'm sure anybody who's ever been into a sport can agree that if somebody has pissed you off and you channel the energy correctly you'll often perform way above your usual standards - and victory tends to be sweeter in those circumstances.

 

But as far as kids who are being bullied for unclear reasons goes...they face that horrible feeling of not knowing why it's happening to them. Or what might be wrong with them. I noticed one commonality amongst kids who were persistently bullied, longer term, when I worked in homes. They tended to seek attention in ways that wound up the other kids, and sometimes staff too. it resulted in them tending to not get the support they needed. New staff (or kids) might jump in and rescue them...only to find that they'd been hooked into a bit of an elaborate drama, and ending up feeling stupid as a result.

 

These were the kids who would niggle and jab away at others, and then when the others turned round and exploded at them they would burst into tears. It's hard to like kids who behave in that way, and it's hard to be supportive of them. However, just as being overly timid or overly aggressive can be reactions to other types of abuse, that kind of behaviour can stem from having been neglected...and generally the kids who behaved like that consistently did have a fairly serious history of neglect.

 

I remember thinking "well, instead of bitching about these kids being attention seekers - why not give them what they're looking for. Full on, undivided, positive attention." But when they got it, they couldn't really cope with it. They tended to have short attention spans for anything other than drama, would lose interest quickly and either withdraw or create another diversion. Very, very difficult to do one to one therapeutic work with children like that. They can demonstrate a lot of narcissism, which comes from not having a very strong sense of self.

 

Which, in turn, comes from having been neglected by the primary carers who were either physically or emotionally absent and therefore weren't able to say "these are your strengths, these are your weaknesses, this is how you come across to others. Work on A, try harder with B - do C as much as you can, because that's where you'll excel." With children who seriously lack any sense of who they are, bullies get to play God by presenting their perceptions and seeing the other child absorb it as though it's gospel.

 

Once they can get a stronger sense of self (from positive sources, not from people who are just looking to cut them down) then they're in a better position to just flip off the psychological element of bullying....and if they can do that, they're probably far less likely to have to deal with the more physical types of bullying. On that note, there's a video that I think is quite inspiring with regard to a child finding their focus in the middle of a period where their home life is difficult and they're being ostracised/bullied at school.

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by Taramere

[serial muse]

I noticed one commonality amongst kids who were persistently bullied, longer term, when I worked in homes. They tended to seek attention in ways that wound up the other kids, and sometimes staff too. it resulted in them tending to not get the support they needed. New staff (or kids) might jump in and rescue them...only to find that they'd been hooked into a bit of an elaborate drama, and ending up feeling stupid as a result.

 

These were the kids who would niggle and jab away at others, and then when the others turned round and exploded at them they would burst into tears.

 

Good point. I was a target of some bullying - relatively minor compared to what I've read here, but certainly enough to make me loathe certain people and glory in their hair loss and expanding waistlines 10 years later.

 

Generally, my tactic was to affect an attitude of indifference and just kind of pretend they didn't exist - which I'm not saying worked or didn't work, but it was my instinct and I went with it. I did have a very strong core group of friends in school, too, which insulated me to some extent from the impact of that aggravation.

 

What's bizarre, to me, is that when I went back to my 10-year reunion, a bunch of people who I loathed and was convinced loathed me -- based on their high school bullshxt -- were all cheerful and friendly and wanted to catch up.

 

I affected an attitude of pleasant indifference. And in the ensuing years I have just left their FB friend requests in limbo. Because screw 'em.

 

I'm not saying that was the right or wrong thing to do -- I suppose I could have let it go and been more charitable. But I didn't feel like it, and honestly, I have enough friends who I actually like.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that many bullies are probably not all that in tune with what they're even doing, and some -- like those I went to school with -- may have highly selective memories about their past behaviors. Possibly because they're actually all wrapped up in their inner stuff, and not really recognizing how acting out is affecting people externally.

Edited August 27, 2014 by serial muse

[Taramere]

Good point. I was a target of some bullying - relatively minor compared to what I've read here, but certainly enough to make me loathe certain people and glory in their hair loss and expanding waistlines 10 years later.

 

Generally, my tactic was to affect an attitude of indifference and just kind of pretend they didn't exist - which I'm not saying worked or didn't work, but it was my instinct and I went with it. I did have a very strong core group of friends in school, too, which insulated me to some extent from the impact of that aggravation.

 

What's bizarre, to me, is that when I went back to my 10-year reunion, a bunch of people who I loathed and was convinced loathed me -- based on their high school bullshxt -- were all cheerful and friendly and wanted to catch up.

 

Yeah, I've experienced that at times and wondered "was I just being oversensitive when I thought that person was giving me a hard time?" I think generally if somebody's picking on you a lot, you can pretty much guarantee that you've made some sort of impression on them. On some level they want your attention, and they want your friendship. In those situations, I think sometimes the unpleasantness will set in because they felt rejected or let down by you in some way.

 

Then there are just people for whom bullying others is as natural as breathing, and something they do to pretty much everybody. One time my best friend and I were on a bus filled with kids from the very rough school my mother taught at (there was an outing, my mother and another teacher from that school were in charge, and my friend and I had been allowed to get seats on the bus to go too). Needless to say, these girls on the bus started taunting my mother behind her back - knowing full well that she was my mother.

 

Of course, as a matter of pride I couldn't just sit there and say nothing...so I turned around and made a verbal jab at the main bully. My friend was livid with me and close to tears on account of all the whispered threats that were going around the bus. I told her we'd just have to make a run for it as soon as we got to our destination. Which we did. Later that day on the return journey, the bus stopped for everybody who wanted chips to go and get some. Obviously we stayed on the bus, to avoid being beaten up in the chip shop (chips as in fries).

 

When the main bully and her buddies got on the bus, she stopped by me then sat down, offered me a chip and started chatting as though we were besties. My friend couldn't understand it at all, but as my mum later explained....that bunch weren't exactly the brightest. The main bully was like a goldfish that I, an invader in its bowl, had tangled with while it was meandering its way around the bowl. By the time it meandered back round to where I was, it had forgotten all about the confrontation, and was ready to be fairly affable.

 

Also, she probably spat on the chip she offered me.