Red123 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This statement is thrown around a lot. I personally don't agree with it. Yes some people who cheat do cheat again but not everyone. I do believe that people can learn and make better choices once they have learned that lesson. When you know better you do better as Oprah says. Then there's the argument that everyone knows cheating is wrong, agreed but there are so many different circumstances that lead to affairs and there is no one size fits all. So although not all people learn this lesson, I believe some can and do. That goes for a WS an OW/OM and BS. I guess I can understand why people say once a cheater always one but that blanket statement is too much IMO. I guess it's the same kind of thing as a BS who states they would never ever take a cheater back then find themselves in R after their spouse cheats. What do others think of this statement? I am extra curious to hear from the WSs. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
RightThere Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I personally think it has more to do with "once a cheater," they then know what to expect the second time around. They have better personal tools to deal with the emotional component, the cover-up, and the deception. Frankly I don't think I've ever met a cheater who later on became MORE opposed to cheating. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Its more likely of men then women. But I don't believe its true in all cases or even most, no more then any other bad decision we make in life. There are people that won't cheat in any situation, there are people that will cheat in any situation, so logic would say there are people that will only cheat once. Sometimes it takes cheating to know you don't have what it takes to be a cheater. Edited August 21, 2014 by DKT3 3 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Your point doesn't get any clearer by quoting Oprah's bumper-sticker philosophy but I don't argue with it at all. Not everyone who cheats once will cheat again. That's not very profound so a question I find more important is will a cheater be more likely to cheat again? Everything I read on the subject says yes, a person who cheats once is more likely to cheat again. The numbers I have found say that once a person cheats they are between 22% and 50% more likely to cheat again. That is a significant number and another reason for a BS to question if it's worth reconciling with their WS. So it's true that not all cheaters cheat again, but the numbers don't lie. Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Its more likely of men then women. No study I can find found a significant difference between men and women when it comes to cheating a second time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Red123 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Its more likely of men then women. But I don't believe its true in all cases or even most, no more then any other bad decision we make in life. There are people that won't cheat in any situation, there are people that will cheat in any situation, so logic would say there are people that will only cheat once. Sometimes it takes cheating to know you don't have what it takes to be a cheater. That's an interesting way of viewing it. It makes sense that some people can pull it off and others just can't. Some people report that their entire A they went back and fourth between extreme highs and severe guilt ridden lows. That sounds awful to me. Maybe for some the excitement and highs outweigh the other. But for those that it didn't I would imagine they wouldn't be as willing to go there again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Red123 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Your point doesn't get any clearer by quoting Oprah's bumper-sticker philosophy but I don't argue with it at all. Not everyone who cheats once will cheat again. That's not very profound so a question I find more important is will a cheater be more likely to cheat again? Everything I read on the subject says yes, a person who cheats once is more likely to cheat again. The numbers I have found say that once a person cheats they are between 22% and 50% more likely to cheat again. That is a significant number and another reason for a BS to question if it's worth reconciling with their WS. So it's true that not all cheaters cheat again, but the numbers don't lie. Isn't once a cheater always a cheater just a blanket statement for your question of will a cheater cheat again? They sound the same to me. I'm sure that there are many studies that say yes, but I was just wondering what people think about that statement and their own experiences. I'm just not a fan of blanket statements when people who have affairs are a very diverse group of people. They can't be classed by gender, age, socioeconomic status or race so I feel that it is hard to say that a percentage of those people will or won't remain a cheater. Oh and the Oprah quote, well I love her and I love that quote and use it in my life a lot. Cheesy of me to quote it? Maybe:) but I love it. Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I would say, "once a cheater always a risk for cheating again." As I see it, a cheater is sort of like an alcoholic. They may not drink anymore, but that is only because of the consequences, but its in there. By way of explaining consider this: How many "former cheaters" have been polygraphed on whether they have fond memories of, fantasize about, or have other pleasure feelings/memories of their affairs or the sex. Everyone writes that they hate who they were or what they did, but deep down, what really goes on in their minds. It is for that reason that I answered the question like I did. I think that they all have fond memories that they may suppress, but still have, thus they are always at risk for cheating. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 No study I can find found a significant difference between men and women when it comes to cheating a second time. I have, a 2012 German based study. I got in trouble by posting stats so I try to avoid it. Let's just say the difference is significant, very. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Red123 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bigman that's an interesting way of looking at it. In your opinion do you think this would be true of every type of A? Even ONS or very short As? Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think cheating must be a fun and easy past time for those who have done it once and gotten away with it without bearing any consequences. Why else would so many expert.s advocate exposure....not to punish but to ensure consequences for these actions! Tough love, like you would subject a rebellious child to. Only when they witness .the pain these fun and frivolous romps have caused loved ones. --spouse, children, extended family-- do they realize how selfish and self-centered they were when sneaking around believing what others don't know cannot hurt them.... They realize, for the first time, that these actions had consequences and they LOST trust, respect, their legacy. Then and only then do they realize consequences: loss of trust, innocence, respect and experience remorse, shame, regret. You cannot unring that bell, EVER. Those cheaters may NOT cheat again. Those who are forgiven too soon, have a spouse who protects them, and are not exposed for their betrayal....never truly experience any subsequent pain or experience any personal consequences. Why NOT cheat again? If you got away with it once, why not continue to think it was no big deal....she or he forgave me easily....and will do so again. Human nature...of the very selfish kind, I'd pretty predictable to continue to be selfish....don't you think? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If you are going to say, "once a cheat, always a cheat," then you have to beleive "once a monogamist, always a monogamist." Do u think if someone is faithful once they will always be thankful? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Red123 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 I would have to agree with your statement Spark. I think most people know when they do something hurtful but when they actually witness the pain it can really hit home. Community Justice Circles have used this method to show perpetrators of nonviolent crimes how their actions have affected the victims. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 My own personal thoughts are that we all have the same basic hardwiring. Cheaters and the faithful do not come from different stock or from different molds. When people say, "I would never cheat," it just means they haven't been in that situation yet. They'll change their tune when they are chronically dissatisfied with their current partner and someone better makes a valid offer. They may still not actually do it, but they'll never say never again. Where the 'once a cheater.. " factor comes into play is once you have done something, it's always easier to do it again. Once someone has made the justifications in their head and learned what to say and do to schmooze and seduce another person and learned how to cover their tracks at home, it's easier and more efficient next time around. Once they are in that situation again, they can still make the conscious choice to keep their legs together or keep it in their pants, but they are also a more experienced and learned operator. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 My own personal thoughts are that we all have the same basic hardwiring. Cheaters and the faithful do not come from different stock or from different molds. When people say, "I would never cheat," it just means they haven't been in that situation yet. They'll change their tune when they are chronically dissatisfied with their current partner and someone better makes a valid offer. They may still not actually do it, but they'll never say never again. Where the 'once a cheater.. " factor comes into play is once you have done something, it's always easier to do it again. Once someone has made the justifications in their head and learned what to say and do to schmooze and seduce another person and learned how to cover their tracks at home, it's easier and more efficient next time around. Once they are in that situation again, they can still make the conscious choice to keep their legs together or keep it in their pants, but they are also a more experienced and learned operator. But we all come from different backgrounds and have different values. While I do believe that all people has it in them to cheat, I'm a man not a mindless robot. If I say I choose not to cheat that means I won't cheat no matter the situation. I have had a number of chances to cheat and I never have. I have found myself deeply attracted to women and maintained my distance even when tempted. I was driven by rage, anger and a strong desire for revenge and didn't cheat. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I guess I can understand why people say once a cheater always one but that blanket statement is too much IMO. I guess it's the same kind of thing as a BS who states they would never ever take a cheater back then find themselves in R after their spouse cheats. What do others think of this statement? I am extra curious to hear from the WSs. Having known people who R'd after infidelity (MW's mostly), YMMV. I tend to view it as any other action in life. When one has performed an action or stated words that are illegal, or a violation of societal norms, or antithetical to one's personal ethical standards, they will have always performed that action or word, for life. After that point, there's a choice. One, they can label themselves or accept the labels of others, or not. It's up to them. I was caused to reflect on this when I was rolled and the DOJ did their background workup for CCW. I was asked to describe *any* interaction with law enforcement in my entire life, going back to being a child. You'd be surprised how much information they have on folks, even 'law abiding' folks. Am I forever that person who had interactions of a negative sort with law enforcement? Yep, I am. The proof is there. What is the label attached? That's the choice. I have my label, if any. Law enforcement has theirs. Society has theirs. Something I've noticed about the most successful people in life I've interacted with: they don't dwell on such matters. Their focus is on being the most successful in life they can be, whether that be in business, family, church or social popularity. They don't give substantial thought to errors in judgment or unhealthy choices. They screwed up, OK, take care of it and move on. Dwelling on it takes them away from being successful. So, drilling it down to the personal, I certainly broke the marital respect by having a disclosed affair, even though it didn't include sex, hence didn't meet the LS standard for cheating. It could certainly be labeled negatively. Some people here have. I see it the same as all those things I recounted to law enforcement. Part of life. Learn from it and move on. Life is short. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Striver Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Depends on why the cheating occurred. Someone leaving their spouse for an old high school or college sweetheart probably won't repeat that experience. They may or may not wind up happier, but that itch has been scratched. Those attracted to the future, to the newest, shiniest thing, are more likely to serial cheat. Link to post Share on other sites
Elle1975 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 If someone cheats on you, it's your right to say "thanks but no thanks". I have seen many posts here of people saying "s/he cheating again". Old sayings like that don't come out of nowhere, there's truth to it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Red, Yes, i hold my view for most all affairs. In the case of an ONS, the cheater was so overcome by lust that they acted. I would make an exception if they stopped midway thru, even in the midst of sex. Then, I posit that the fantasy was never realized or died out in the act. As for the rest, absolutely they have fond memories. LTA's ABSOLUTELY. They had practically a second marriage. Lots of pleasure, lots of longing for the AP and satisfaction along the way. Sure we all have past relationships or encounters where we really regretted the encounter with someone, but after a little time passes, a good memory surfaces, even if we are mortified after dwelling on it. Now, obviously if one hooked up with a troll and would have regretted that no matter what, then that is the exception to my rule. Barring that, I think a cheater will probably "rub one out", "jerk one off", or fantasize about it to get that big "O" while with their spouse, even during reconciliation, albeit maybe later after all the stress and fallout dies down. Therefore, once a cheater, always a risk of cheating again. That is why I would want to see a poly on that. Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 But we all come from different backgrounds and have different values. While I do believe that all people has it in them to cheat, I'm a man not a mindless robot. If I say I choose not to cheat that means I won't cheat no matter the situation. I have had a number of chances to cheat and I never have. I have found myself deeply attracted to women and maintained my distance even when tempted. I was driven by rage, anger and a strong desire for revenge and didn't cheat. It's a conscious choice. You choose not to cheat in a number of situations. That doesn't necessarily mean that you will make the same choice in a different situation with different players. But that's really a different topic for a different thread and it's never fair to try to imply what someone might do in a conceptual situation. My main point however was just because someone cheated once, that doesn't mean they are going to be an obligatory cheater condemned to cheat forever - just that once you've done something once, it's always easier to do it again. Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Even if someone could provide me some divine proof like a look into the future that they're never going to cheat again in their entire life, I still wouldn't do it. I just don't give second chances anymore when I place my trust; there's a line, and once that one's crossed, there's no coming back. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I can only speak for myself... As a former cheater, I will not make that choice again. The pain I inflicted on my H and myself was huge and not worth it at all. I've realized that an affair is not the answer to a problem, nor is it even remotely a healthy coping skill. I spent a lot of time working on me and my relationship to get this point, and slowly rebuilding my integrity. My thought is that if a WS does not do the hard work...then they could be at risk to doing it again. Facing the hurt and pain one has caused is not easy. Also, that hurt and pain has tainted any memories I have of the A and xOM; I do not think of him or my actions at that time fondly. Even though my H and I have reconciled, I did face consequences for my actions, and that is probably a main reason I will not walk that path again. In the end, it is my choice, and I choose not to be that person again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Red123 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I can only speak for myself... As a former cheater, I will not make that choice again. The pain I inflicted on my H and myself was huge and not worth it at all. I've realized that an affair is not the answer to a problem, nor is it even remotely a healthy coping skill. I spent a lot of time working on me and my relationship to get this point, and slowly rebuilding my integrity. My thought is that if a WS does not do the hard work...then they could be at risk to doing it again. Facing the hurt and pain one has caused is not easy. Also, that hurt and pain has tainted any memories I have of the A and xOM; I do not think of him or my actions at that time fondly. Even though my H and I have reconciled, I did face consequences for my actions, and that is probably a main reason I will not walk that path again. In the end, it is my choice, and I choose not to be that person again. Your post demonstrates my views for some,not all people who have an affair but really work on themselves to find out why they did it. Some may say I'm naive but I do believe that people learn from their mistakes, if they choose to see the lesson. Good for you for doing the work to R. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I tend to find "twice a cheater, always a cheater" to be far more accurate most times. One time...a person can learn a painful lesson from. Someone who successfully cheats twice...often tends to keep that tool as part of their emotional coping mechanisms. Not to say that even they can't learn those lessons eventually...but they're far more likely to repeat it over and over again before they do than someone who 'get's it the first time'. Just my opinion... 4 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Isn't once a cheater always a cheater just a blanket statement for your question of will a cheater cheat again? They sound the same to me. I'm sure that there are many studies that say yes, but I was just wondering what people think about that statement and their own experiences. I'm just not a fan of blanket statements when people who have affairs are a very diverse group of people. They can't be classed by gender, age, socioeconomic status or race so I feel that it is hard to say that a percentage of those people will or won't remain a cheater. Oh and the Oprah quote, well I love her and I love that quote and use it in my life a lot. Cheesy of me to quote it? Maybe:) but I love it. I made no blanket statement, just fact. What I said is: Everything I read on the subject says yes, a person who cheats once is more likely to cheat again. The numbers I have found say that once a person cheats they are between 22% and 50% more likely to cheat again. Not that a cheater WILL cheat again, just that they are more likely to cheat a second time then a non-cheater is to cheat the first time. Link to post Share on other sites
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