dump a bad marriage for an old love?

[Outcast]

Why would it be so difficult to believe that she loves him?

 

Because when he explained that the marriage was at breaking point and that he was suffering and asked her if she would work on the marriage with him, she said no.

 

Surely, if MLC was doing everything just right to make her feel emotionally safe, and if he was sharing himself in like manner....she wouldn't be closing him out like this after all this time.

 

I totally, completely, and utterly disagree. Her own issues prevent her from believing that he has feelings or deserves care or consideration. It is absolutely a fact that some people have such serious issues that NOTHING a partner could do can help or fix them. I think it is a massive mistake to think that it's MLC's fault that his wife is closed, unkind, selfish, etc. She had a traumatic youth, yes. There are many ways that a person can get over or at least begin recovery for something like that yet she has steadfastly refused to seek any help.

 

I see you as still seeing the man as the emotional knight in shining armour - that he must rescue this poor lass from herself but that's not his job and that can't and won't work. He's told her many times he needs more - and she freezes him out. He has been vulnerable - and it never moved her.

 

Anyway, I'm fairly convinced that Mrs. MLC does in fact truly love her husband. She cries EVERYTIME he cracks through the veneer, which tells me that she very likely IS emotionally vulnerable to him.

 

Again, I dispute that vehemently. You've seen posts about narcissists here. Extremely selfish, self-centred people of course weep at the potential loss of convenience, comfort, routine. People weep at the idea of losing a lifestyle. An abuser, LJ, weeps the most heartrending tears you will ever see in remorse over his abuse. But that does not mean that sadness at the idea of loss will change his behaviour and make him treat his partner better.

 

I have no doubt she wants him to stay. I also have no doubt that, no matter what he does, she will be no more caring, considerate, or loving to him than she has been for the past thirty years and to blame him for her issues is, I think, patently unfair.

[Horse]

I don't think it matters why she is the way that she is. He may have contributed to it (we are only getting half the story), but that is not important right now. She is not willing to get help or do the work repair the relationship. MLC is, but for how long?

[Outcast]

She is not willing to get help or do the work repair the relationship

 

THIS is THE salient point. Not her sex issues. Not the sex. Nothing else. She will not cooperate in repairing the marriage. That is NOT love.

[seven]

Outcast, MLC’s wife did initiate the lovemaking (post #343). So I take that as her maybe finally tuning in and trying. And unless I’ve misinterpreted, I think the lack of sex was MLC’s chief complaint. Granted, only time will tell whether it will last, but in the here and now she took a step. As far as her going to therapy, she may not be open to that for a number of legitimate reasons. One being that not all therapists are created equal—as in any profession, a few duds may be encountered before finding the right match for her/them. It’s not cheap. And maybe she has visions of the “lie on the couch shrink” instead of just someone to just talk things out with. Some researching on her own (with MLC’s support) might be an easier/safer place for her to start. Books, internet info., asking one’s primary care physician for advice.

 

As for emotional vulnerability, I will say that the majority of women I know, yours truly included, definitely do not view this as a weakness. It shows that a person can feel and connect, and that you trust you partner to share with them (as Ladyjane shared). It has the potential to strengthen a relationship (unless of course the partner is not worthy of that trust). You can be masculine and emotionally available, they’re not mutually exclusive.

 

Oh and the job thing. When your wife was miserable working before, there may have been contributing factors back then that don’t apply now. Were the hours full-time, did she have children at home to care for as well, was the field she was in not interesting to her, etc. You are probably right that she would take it wrong coming from you, perhaps someone else close to you both (who agrees that it may be good for her) could casually bring it up. If things don’t work out for you both in the long run, then at least she won’t feel devastated and rushed to find work, which would ultimately save you grief.

 

Holy crap, I’ve exhausted myself. Need caffeine. lol!

[Ladyjane14]

To me it seems almost unbelievable that a woman would want her man to show vulnerability, that it would almost denote weakness. Would she want a weak man? Are you sure on that one?

 

I find it somewhat telling that you phrase it that way...."would she want a weak man?"

 

Being emotionally vulnerable, or as Seven put it, emotionally available...(I like that terminology better, btw. )....does NOT make a man WEAK. Far from it. It makes him REAL.

 

That's exactly what you've been craving from her, MLC. It's being on the inside, at the nucleus....rather that hovering in orbit around your partner. It's being real. It's making that intimate connection.

 

You feel good when when you're relationship is intimate and sharing, right? Well, it's not much of a stretch to imagine that maybe she feels good about that too.

 

...when he explained that the marriage was at breaking point and that he was suffering and asked her if she would work on the marriage with him, she said no.

 

Words and Actions don't always meet.

 

Her words were angry at the confrontation. She said, "No, I won't work on the marriage." That's ugly, true. But it's a possibility that she was just angry and resentful and spouting off nonsense. Most of us say things we don't mean when we're angry. That's not unusual.

 

But here's her ACTION: When MLC finally opened up to her emotionally, and said to her, "You HURT me"....she took him straight to bed and made love to him.

 

We can look at that in one of two ways:

 

1. She was protecting her home-deal, and thought it would behoove her to backpeddle. Or....

 

2. Upon seeing his vulnerability, and the witnessing the hurt she caused him....she wanted to do something to make it right again.

 

We don't know her. It could be either one. In a 50/50 split though...tie goes to the runner.

 

No, seriously. Why should we believe in evil motivations here? Evidence suggests that she love him. Here's just one example:

 

She cheated on him a long time ago. She was attracted to someone else, and yet she came back to MLC. One might argue that maybe circumstances forced her decision. Maybe it was for security reasons. Maybe she couldn't afford to go out on her own. Maybe OM didn't want her, etc, etc.

 

But then she stayed with MLC....for another TWENTY YEARS or so! That's not a decision that was made by circumstances. No one in their right mind would stay with a man that they didn't love for ALL the good years of their lives....just 'cause they couldn't think of anything better to do, or because they didn't want to work outside the home.

 

Nope. I think she loves him.

 

I've been on him 'like a duck on a junebug' for MONTHS to get him to talk to her, to share his feelings. And see what happens, MLC? You told her that you were "hurt", you did it WHILE you were showing her your love and forgiveness, you let her see that you are vulnerable.....and she responded.

[Horse]

My psychobabble obseration:

 

Maybe you both have the same problem. You don't show you emotions because you don't want to look weak. It's true, If you show her how much she hurt you, then you are showing her how much power she has over your heart. But that's what love is about. It's abandoning your fear, trusting and opening yourself up to the other person.

 

She is doing the same thing. She doesn't want to have sex with you because there is no need. For most people sex reaffirms the emotional closeness. She is too afraid to let you get that close in the first place, because she is afraid she will get hurt again. Sex is just taking her in a direction that she is afraid to go.

 

Neither one of you trusts the other enough to completely open up and put your heart at the other persons mercy. You seem to be afraid that she will reject you and she is still stuck in the past, afraid that if she lets you in, you will hurt her.

 

The love that you think you share now is nothing compared to what it could be.

 

Someone has to make the first real move.

[midlifecrazy]

I just went back and re-read my first post in this thread that started over 6 months ago. I sounded like a pretty PO’d unhappy individual. What a long, strange journey it has been. I have learned a lot along the way. Things have come into perspective.

 

The coincidences continue to amaze me. I don’t think it ever was really, truly about the dream girl. It was about what she represented to me whether it was fantasy or a hope for reality. But the fact that it partly was a fantasy of her that finally got me moving and that less than a week after we finally innocently stumbled into one another I felt my marriage was almost certainly doomed. Well, that’s just astounding.

 

At the first of the week it felt like MW and I were on opposite sides of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Each of us had our hands on the buttons. Our world was ready to go up in smoke. And then, I don’t know if I blinked by reaching out and going over to her or if she did by opening up and breaking down. All I know is there was a blink and the crisis was over. Both of us stood down..

 

Since then there seems to have been a definite change in MW’s attitude that is also amazing. She seems to have opened up and become much freer and more comfortable with discussing things sexual. We were at Walmart yesterday and she actually started looking at massage oil on her own suggesting she would like for me to give her one. This is totally out of character for her. In the past she’s always been reluctant to talk about erotic matters.

 

I know I said in an earlier post that I thought the point of no return had been passed. That I wouldn’t be able to accept MW’s sexual advances if offered for fear of it being a ploy, of being played for a sucker by her. Guess I was wrong. It doesn’t feel like that. Or maybe I am a sucker. But to me it seems like maybe she finally GOT it. I keep telling her that’s how I express love and how I receive it, that it’s my love language. Maybe it just took being this close to the edge for her to realize how much she hurt me each time she rejected me.

 

We have had more sex this year than we have had for quite awhile. I guess because I’m been making this concerted effort to improve things. Could have had more yet if I hadn’t let my frustration turn into spite and turn her down a few times just to “show her how it felt”. That won’t happen again. There’s still room for improvement in frequency and variety. But even though she said she wasn’t willing to work on it, she has shown me that she really is.

 

We’re may not be out of the woods yet but we’re trying. One thing I’ve decided is to always try to treat her as nice and good as I do when I’m wanting to make love. That may not sound the way I mean it to but I hope you get what I’m trying to say. I don’t want her to think I’m being nice to her just for sex.

 

So as to the original question “dump a marriage for an old love (or any other for that matter) the answer, I’ve decided, is absolutely not.

[Ladyjane14]

This sounds like a thread-ender. If so, I'm glad for you that it's ending on a more positive note than the one on which it began.

 

You know, I'm not a superstitious person. So, the whole bit about you running into your old girlfriend never meant much to me anyway. If you had been happy and well-satisfied in your primary relationship at the time, the DG sightings would have held no meaning for you at all. Just a blip on the radar. Not important.

 

One thing I’ve decided is to always try to treat her as nice and good as I do when I’m wanting to make love. That may not sound the way I mean it to but I hope you get what I’m trying to say. I don’t want her to think I’m being nice to her just for sex.

 

I think this is a great idea. It's one of the most common complaints that women have in a long-term relationship..."he only treats me nice when he wants sex".

 

It's not true, of course. But for the woman who sincerely believes it is, Perception is the Truth. A man who treats his woman "nice" ALL of the time...is wearing down over the course of time, whatever old mistaken perception she might have had.

 

A word of caution.... When you adopt a change like that, you feel like a shmuck whenever something disappointing happens.

 

The consistant change that I made was: 'To ALWAYS make time for him'. And whenever we get into a rough spate, I have to admit....I'm all like, "WTF...I'm making changes for him....and he's still acting like an a*hole!" But it's never true. I can tell because our recovery time after a disagreement is always so much less.

 

Anyway, good luck to you MLC. I hope that in time, your marriage will become all you ever hoped for.

[seven]

Nicely put Ladyjane. MLC, you sound happier and resolute in what you want which is awesome. The back and forth of “should I stay or should I go” is not a peaceful place to be in. Now with your decision made, you can positively move forward. And should another storm arise, you now know that you’re both able to work through it. As for your initial and previous posts, hey, we all just need to vent sometimes and let it out, and like you said, it’s a journey. Glad to know things are brighter on your journey.

[midlifecrazy]

Yeah, I think that will be it for awhile,hopefully forever on this subject. Hope it's been put to bed for good . I have new insights, a plan and resolve. I think finally, finally MrsMLC has realized that she was living on the slopes of the volcano. It took going to the brink to get through to her but it seems as if it eventually did. At least I feel like she's making an effort now.

 

So thank you all for your interest, advice and encouragement. Things may have turned out quite differently for us by now without it. I'll even thank you on behalf of MW even though she never knew she had you fighting for her and us. Thanks.

 

At the risk of seeming as if I've learned nothing, though, there is a question I'm going to pose in a new thread probably in the marriage forum in the near future. It's mainly just curiosity and a converstation starter but I imagine I'll get some interesting responses. See you all around I hope.