dump a bad marriage for an old love?

[Ladyjane14]

There's nothing for me to say....Mz. Pixie has said it all.

[midlifecrazy]

MzP, LJ, I don't think you could drag her back to the MC office with a team of wild horses and even if you did she'd still sit there and clam up. I'm not ruling out going back myself but for now it's unlikely.

 

Yeah I recognize the danger of becoming attached to someone if I went outside for fulfillment. I'm nothing if not a hopeless romantic. If LLDG (long lost dream girl) became magically available and interested, hoo boy! Everything would blow up. And I'm sure it might end up that way with anyone else. A professional? Well, I suppose MW might always decide she wants to hire it done. That would take the emotional factor out of it. Maybe like the Stones said "you can't always get what you want but sometimes you get what you need". Be a trade off I guess.

 

I don't really think she's going say" yeah, that's fine with me,go screw someone else and I'll just wait here for you" though. As far as a discussion about our sex life, I've been thinking about that. Why bother, I wonder? What are we going to say that we haven't said hundreds of times before over the course of our marriage? Maybe I'll just ask her what she would do if I had an affair. She already knows why I would consider it.

 

 

Then there's today. Everything seemed fine with her, she was in a pretty good mood. Even called me "darling" at the dinner table (unusual) and gave me a kiss before she went to bed.WTF! I think her life might be perfect if I could just get over this annoying sex habit. What am I going to do, WTF am I going to do?

[Outcast]

Get off the fence.

[Mz. Pixie]

MLC-

 

You have STILL not confronted her with what is unacceptable to you in this marriage!! She cannot read your mind, and obviously simple hints are not going to work with her!

 

You are considering having an affair or asking her if you can without even giving her the benefit of a conversation where you're being totally honest with her. Perhaps along the lines of-

 

"Honey, I love you with all of my heart. Our marriage hasn't been what I've desired for a long time and I've tried to get around that, but I simply can't. I understand you've got some inner turmoil and depression going on here and I would love to help you work through that. However, a marriage cannot be entirely about one person when another's person's needs are not being met.

We're going into the years that we should be rediscovering each other and enjoying this next phase of our life, but I'm unable to get the sexual satisfaction that I want from you. You refuse to talk about it and I quite frankly think you'd be satisfied if you never had to have sex again. That's not the case with me. I desire to have a sexual relationship in which my partner truly desires me. I fully want that to be you. Your loving me and being good to me otherwise are great but I have to have this other factor. I'm willing to be patient while we work on these issues but I have to know that you acknowledge that this is a problem to me, it's unacceptable, and that it is something that you are willing to change. This is a deal breaker for me in this marriage, you need to know that and unless you're willing to work on this- I'm not sure what's going to happen. I'm not sure I can tolerate being in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life. Now, I would like for you to fully consider everything that I've said and we can talk about it a couple of days from now"

 

What you want is for you to be able to be the good guy, not have to truly confront her and everything to work out the way you want it to. If there has EVER been a conflict avoider in the history of the world, then you're giving us a good example! You have not truly opened up your mouth to really discuss this with her, and it's not fair to her for you not having done so.

 

You know that I have mad respect for you MLC but I gotta be totally honest with you at this point. You gotta grow some and have this conversation with her. If it doesn't do any good, okay fine but you have to at least give her the benefit of doing that.

[Ladyjane14]

Once again....ditto EVERYTHING Mz. Pixie said.

 

 

Originally posted by midlifecrazy

MzP, LJ, I don't think you could drag her back to the MC office with a team of wild horses and even if you did she'd still sit there and clam up. I'm not ruling out going back myself but for now it's unlikely.

 

You definately should go back for individual. She should too. You won't get much accomplished in joint counseling right now anyway.

 

It really does take more than just a couple of visits to start getting something positive out of it. It takes awhile for your counselor to get a handle on your situation. If you each go individually for awhile, it'll give your therapist an opportunity to hear the real deal.

 

It's sometimes hard to say what you need to say in front of your spouse. For example, I can't imagine it would be easy to admit how often you've thought about cheating over the last few months....or, how specific that cheating fantasy has been. That's probably a little more intense than what you're ready for at this time.

 

As far as her continuance in therapy. Well, that's only her choice as long as you ALLOW it to be her choice. There is always the ultimatum.

 

This is something that you can talk about in IC. You would need to seriously determine if you're ready to back that ultimatum up before you dished it out.

 

Then there's today. Everything seemed fine with her, she was in a pretty good mood. Even called me "darling" at the dinner table (unusual) and gave me a kiss before she went to bed.WTF! I think her life might be perfect if I could just get over this annoying sex habit. What am I going to do, WTF am I going to do?

 

This is the pattern..... You get unhappy. Vesuvius rumbles a little. She does whatever she feels is necessary to smooth you over. Then you go back to the status quo.

 

It's up to YOU to decide if that's good enough for you. Frankly, I still have quite a bit of hope for you and your wife to turn this thing around. I think both of you have the ability and the motive to make your partnership into something that is much more satisfying.

 

But it's going to require you to step up to the plate. You're going to have to let her know...IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS...that the old status quo is NOT working for you anymore.

 

It's not enough to wait for her to step up. She doesn't have the incentive that you do. She is not the one who is dissatisfied. She's happy enough to coast along the way things are. When you accept and understand that sad fact, you can see why it's imcubant upon YOU to elicit change. It's not fair...but it is what it is.

 

Mz. Pixie's right. The confrontation absolutely has to happen. Otherwise, you are consenting in absentia to the unsatisfactory relationship you have today. You, yourself, become complicit in your own misery.

[Outcast]

Insanity = doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

 

Einstein

[midlifecrazy]

Outcast, hence the name midlifeCRAZY and yeah the pickets in the fence are getting uncomfortable.

 

Ladies, GMTA. MizP. I was thinking about posting something along the lines of what you suggested as a confrontation. You did an excellent job of expressing what I want to get across to her. Better than what I was coming up with myself probably. I was going to preface it with the "what would you do if I had an affair" question. That might set the wrong tone for anything that followed don't you think?

 

I just read it again, it really is good, just a little bit of tweaking to personalize it and I could try to commit it to memory and use it it verbatim.

 

I have to admit I was a little taken aback when you guys said I hadn't confronted her. Then I thought about it a bit. I've complained, I've bitched, I've moaned. I've let her know I'm unhappy and tried to approach the problem from every way possible. But no, I have not told her in no uncertain terms that this is UNACCEPTABLE to me any longer.

 

 

"but I have to know that you acknowledge that this is a problem to me"

 

 

This is an important thing. If she would just act like she cares that I am unhappy and has some sympathy or even says she's sorry about it, it would mean a lot. It wouldn't solve things but it might give me some hope.

 

As far as IC, well it would be interesting to at least go back once more and get the counselor's take on our session.

[midlifecrazy]

Honey, I love you dearly Maybe you think I've been acting stangely these past few months. But you know our relationship hasn't been what I've wanted it to be for a long time and I've tried to get around that, but I simply can't. I understand you've got some inner turmoil and depression going on here and I would love to help you work through that. However, I feel we need to work on getting some of my needs met too

We're going into the years that we should be rediscovering each other and enjoying this next phase of our life, but I'm unable to get the sexual satisfaction that I want from you. You refuse to talk about it and you've even told me you'd be satisfied if you never had to have sex again. That's not the case with me. I desire to have a sexual relationship in which my partner truly desires me. I fully want that to be you. Your loving me and being good to me otherwise are great but I have to have this other factor. I'm willing to be patient while we work on these issues but I have to know that you acknowledge that this is a problem to me, it's unacceptable, and that it is something that you are willing to change. I'm not willing to live like this forever, you need to know that and unless you're willing to work on this- I'm not sure what's going to happen. I don't think I can tolerate being in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life. Now, I would like for you to fully consider everything that I've said and we can talk about it a couple of days from now"

 

How's that sound?

[Mz. Pixie]

Wow, I have LadyJ bragging on me now??

 

I think it sounds good but the more I thought about it perhaps you should say "I'm unable to get the sexual satisfaction I need from you" instead of want. Want implies something you'd like to have. That's not what this is, it's a need!

You NEED to be connected to your partner in that way!

 

In the beginning tell her you have something you'd like to say. Pick a quiet time when you will not be interrupted. Tell her that you want to say everything you have to say and for her not to interrupt. I don't want this to turn into a huge fight, this is more you telling her what you are expecting. It will be her choice whether to "line out" and work on this marriage.

 

I also do not actually think she's probably noticed you "acting strangely". She's just not paying that much attention!

 

Don't be petulant like a pouting child when you say it, and don't sugar coat it for her. I wouldn't throw in the thinking of having an affair thing, although I did with my exh and it didn't do me any good. He still never got it. Make sure she understands that for you to have a emotional connection to her like you'd like you need to have your sexual needs met too!

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Mz. Pixie

Wow, I have LadyJ bragging on me now??

 

Of course.....less typing for me.... You're saving me sooooo much wear 'n tear on my carpal tunnel!

 

 

Honey, I love you dearly Maybe you think I've been acting stangely these past few months.

This is a good place to tell her a few of the actions that you've been doing in the past few months to solve this problem. Showing her that you've already committed yourself to working on the relationship, and have been actively doing so, let's her know that you're taking this seriously. Mention the books and articles you've read, the time you've spent in consideration of the relationship, ways you've TRIED to draw her out. Let her know that the decision to try MC was an "uncomfortable" one....and yet this was sooooo important to you that you persisted anyway.

 

But you know our relationship hasn't been what I've wanted it to be for a long time and I've tried to get around that, but I simply can't.

Give her your 'mission statement'. Tell her what you want specifically in an ideal marital relationship. Use descriptive buzzwords, "a close and loving partner", a "companion" and a "lover".

 

I understand you've got some inner turmoil and depression going on here and I would love to help you work through that. However, I feel we need to work on getting some of my needs met too

This is really good. It lets her know that you acknowledge her feelings. You're willing to work with her for solutions to her problems, but that you expect the same in return.

 

We're going into the years that we should be rediscovering each other and enjoying this next phase of our life,

Why not elaborate a little here? Help her to get a mental picture of how nice it could be. Tell her some of your dreams, and how she features in them. This is a great place to tell her some of the dreams you have for her as well, ways you'd like to increase the daily happiness in her life. You can let her know that her happiness IS important to you.

 

but I'm unable to get the sexual satisfaction that I want from you. You refuse to talk about it and you've even told me you'd be satisfied if you never had to have sex again.

 

I'm with Mz. Pixie again! Better to describe your "needs" and to expound upon the male desire for emotional intimacy through sexual contact. This is a good place in the conversation to let her know that she has REALLY hurt you emotionally in her rejection you. She should hear what the effects of that have been on your self-esteem. This is NOT the place to be stoic. She should be able to see the sadness this has brought to you.

 

Beware though.....Don't say ONE WORD that's accusatory in the entire conversation. Things like "you always" or "you never" will bring a defensive response. You're already likely to see defensiveness anyway. You don't want to place a 'special order' for it.

 

That's not the case with me. I desire to have a sexual relationship in which my partner truly desires me.

Again, tell her what that means to you in emotional terms. To NOT feel attractive and wanted by your partner, when you're in a committed relationship...means that you NEVER get to feel attractive and wanted. The word "desired" is key here. Let her hear it more than once.

 

I fully want that to be you. Your loving me and being good to me otherwise are great but I have to have this other factor.

"The relationship is "incomplete" for me without this."

 

I'm willing to be patient while we work on these issues but I have to know that you acknowledge that this is a problem to me, it's unacceptable, and that it is something that you are willing to change. I'm not willing to live like this forever, you need to know that and unless you're willing to work on this- I'm not sure what's going to happen. I don't think I can tolerate being in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life.

Tell her that you've thought of ending the relationship. Tell her that you can't hardly imagine leaving her behind. Tell her that you don't really want to be without her. Tell her what a great lady she is, and how much you love and respect what she's done in raising your family.

 

But tell her also, that you are left 'on the outside looking in'. Because you don't feel like an integral part of her life anymore. Tell her that you can't feel her love. Let her see how sad this makes you, but avoid "petulence", like Mz.Pixie said.

 

Now, I would like for you to fully consider everything that I've said and we can talk about it a couple of days from now"

Soften this up a bit. It sounds kind of 'parental'.

 

"I'd like to talk about this ALOT more. I'd like to make a plan with you on how we can work together to solve the problems in our marriage. We need to both be happy, and I think we can do that if you're willing to work with me on it. But it's okay if you need a few days to digest all this."

[Mz. Pixie]

Gosh, Lady J, you just rock

 

Let us know how it goes MLC!

[Ladyjane14]

*blushing*

 

I'm also anxious for an update.....

[midlifecrazy]

Wow, well it finally happened. I did it. I had an affair with LLDG. A buddy of mine came over and we drove up quite a way to a place where there was a big festival going on. It was swarming with people when we got there. There was a lot of drinking going on and we were doing our share. As we made our way through the crush of the crowd, off in the distance I was amazed to see HER with a couple of her friends. I was actually pretty stunned. I told my buddy everything that had been going on. At first he thought I was kidding him but then when he realized I was serious he said I should go for it.

 

By this time we had lost sight of them. We kept looking until we finally saw them again, still far off and kind of downhill from us. Well we started off that way then I got in a little mix up with a couple of people. By the time I got that straightened out I realized that not only had she again disappeared but I also had become seperated from my friend.

 

I kept looking but I couldn't find anyone again. Like i said, I had been drinking and that didn't help matters. I finally go tired of it, gave up and headed back toward the car. I figured I'd just wait there until my buddy showed up. I hoped he was in better shape than I was because I was in no condition to drive.

 

As I got to the parking lot I saw a truck leaving. I don't know who was driving but I saw my friend and some girl in the passenger seats. I yelled and waved but they didn't hear me and just kept going. I was pretty upset. I didn't know what I was going to. I went back to the car and figured I'd just sit there until he came back. Like I said, I'd had a lot to drink and I was kind of worried that I might end up doing something stupid like trying to drive myself home. I was thinking about doing something with my keys so I couldn't drive and that was about the last I remember for awhile.

It did seem to me later that I did manage to find my way home somehow without killing myself or anyone else.

 

I woke up saying something like " I wish I'd have stayed home to begin with."

That's when someone said "You aren't home" That's when I realized I was laying in a woman's arms. The room was pitch black except for a sliver of light coming in above the window. "It's so dark," I said, "I can't see anything"

I reached up and touched her hair and her face. "Are you who I think you are?" I asked. She nodded yes. "Did we...?" I asked, and she said, "You made love to me like I've never been made love to before."

 

Then I felt a tear running down her cheek and I said "I'm sorry, I didn't mean I wish I was home and this hadn't happened. I just didn't know. I didn't realize". And she said "I know".

 

And then most appropriately since she is the long lost DREAM girl, I woke up. With a big grin on my face I might add ( and it wasn't even a wet one,dammit). Guess I'd better get a grip before I make a slip.

 

Still working over the "talk" script in my mind. I've got it down pretty good now. Don't have time to write it out tonight and tommorrow may be the day anyway. One thing that occurs to me. It's been almost 6 months now since I started kicking this around. And all I've gotten from MW as far as trying to improve our relationship is avoidance, resistance and rejection. It's far past time for her to get into the game.

 

I don't think there will be anymore ultimatums after this talk. This is it. If she turns her back on me, on us, this time I'll give up on ever getting through to her. And let the chips fall where they may.

[Mz. Pixie]

MLC- are you trying to give me a heart attack?? I was about to give you a beat down!

 

Sweetie, it's time to poop or get off the pot as they say in the South. NOW.

[Ladyjane14]

Whew!!! You had me going there for a minute.

 

I find it weird though, that in your dream....you couldn't go through with cheating. Even in sleep, you had to give yourself a spate of amnesia, an excuse really, in order to allow yourself to 'get away with it'.

 

I'm glad you're gearing up to have this talk soon.

[midlifecrazy]

Sorry MzP, LJ, got your attention though didn't I? (BTW MzP, hope you're ok in your part of the south). Don't know if it was weird, I keep kicking myself for getting so drunk in my dream that I don't remember the good part but I did indeed wake up smiling.

 

The final draft is going something like this, "Honey, lately it's gotten to the point that I don't feel comfortable even talking about sexual issues with you, my own wife. And as long as we've been together I feel that's just wrong. We're at the point in our lives when we should be enjoying everything we've done and built together. But you've told me you would just as soon do without sex. I love you dear and I love and appreciate the things you do to take care of me and the family, but I'm not like that. Sexual satisfaction is very important to me and I'm sorry but I'm not getting my needs met in our relationship. I want to have it with you and I know you have a lot of things going on that you're dealing with and I want to help you with that if you'll let me but I need to know that you know how important this is to me and that you're willing to work on improving it. I hope you understand because I don't know what's going to happen or how long I can go on living with this level of frustration. But I don't think it's going to be forever. You don't have to say anything right now if you don't want to. But please, please think about it".

 

Sounds more like me, (if I don't run out of breath saying it)

[Mz. Pixie]

You left out the part about how much you love her and went straight for the sexual part.....I think that's a no no. She's going to immediately go on the defensive. Point out the positive first, then address the negative.

[Mz. Pixie]

Oops I forgot MLC. Yes, I'm okay in my part of the South but I am in an area where we're seeing alot of people coming from the NO area. They are flooding in looking for jobs, housing, and assistance. A girl that I work with had 120 show up at her church yesterday. Everyone is doing what they can..........heartbreaking.

[midlifecrazy]

Well, it's done. Maybe in more than one sense of the word. We had the talk, pretty much to script and trying to recall everyone's advice.

 

I don't think it could have gone much worse. Imagine the worst case scenario you can think of and then triple that. That's how bad it felt like it went to me. Twelve hours later and I'm still reeling and my stomach feels like it's tied in knots.

 

She didn't choose to wait and think things over for awhile, prefering instead to dive right in. Any hope that she would sit there calmly and reasonably, listening attentively collecting her thoughts for a measured compassionate response was very misplaced. It flew right out the window in fact.

 

I don't think she was ready for me to have my thoughts in order and keep on topic no matter what she said. And to not just drop it at the first sign of resistance.

 

A couple of the high (or low points)

 

me; " I just need for you to desire being with me as much as I do you"

 

her "I don't know what to tell you"

 

me "I need for you to know how big a problem this is for me and that you're willing to work on it"

 

her "no,I'm not"

 

There was a lot more said. She tried to retreat behind the abuse issue. I said I wanted to do whatever I could to help her work through it. She told me to forget it. She tried to fight dirty and I wouldn't rise to the bait. She told me she didn't care for sex and only did it so I wouldn't complain. Basically I'm a pervert because normal men and women aren't interested in sex. Lovely. And still it went on and on. In the end she went to the "pity poor long suffering,me. I've been so mistreated all my life" defense. Mind you she's spent 2/3 of her life with me and there's nothing I can do about anything that happened before she was 17. And she's had a pretty damn good life since then actually.

 

Finally it ended. There was nothing more to say. Nothing was going to do any good. This was close to a match for the 2004 Valentines flare up. The difference was this was planned. I wasn't pissed off and it was about stuff that mattered. Any questions now about why I try to avoid conflict with her?

 

There were people who said long, long ago in this thread that she would never change. They were right. Then there were those who said I shouldn't expect her to change but should change myself. Maybe they were right too. She doesn't have to and isn't going to but I may have changed into someone who isn't willing to settle anymore for less than they desire.

 

To those who have cautioned me against having an affair, thank you. I'm glad I didn't muddy the waters anymore than they already are. I really don't want to give her the moral high ground at this point. As far as getting permission to get my needs taken care of outside the marriage, to hell with it. I'll not give her the satisfaction of asking her for it so she can tell me how sick I am again.

 

And, God give me strength, I'm done making love to her too. How could any man do it when he knew that's how his partner felt about him?

 

But I can't and won't lead a sexless, passionless life anymore. I've just got to figure out where I go from here. It's over and it's on her head.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, it didn't go as well as you'd hoped....but that's okay.

 

The point of having this conversation was really so that you could get your feelings out on the table. Reaching an accord with her would've been nice, but not to be expected at this time given the long duration of her obstinance.

 

The fact that the whole conversation was going to 'p*ss her off' was pretty much a foregone conclusion. She had to hear that she wasn't up to snuff as a wife and partner. She doesn't accept that she's done anything wrong, because she doesn't have the sexual desires that YOU experience. These are intangibles in her view. It's important that you understand that.

 

The fact that she doesn't have all these sexual urges does NOT mean that she doesn't sincerely love you. It's a difficult concept for a person who has never experienced a loss of libido to understand. If she has no sexual urges.....you may as well be asking her to go out jogging. It's just alot of work and sweating, when you'd rather be sleeping or watching TV.

 

Even though the confrontation didn't go as well as you hoped....you have still made progress. I know it probably doesn't feel that way, but now your words are out there. She might not have given much consideration to them at the time.....but they are still spoken, and still on her mind.

 

The two of you are approaching this issue from polar opposite positions. Just as you hope to eventually make her understand your POV....you must also understand hers.

 

That does NOT mean that you are going to settle for not having your needs met in the marriage. The ONLY viable solution that will allow you both to have your needs met, and keep the marital relationship intact, is for HER to capitulate. She's going to have to change her attitude and learn to make the 'leap of faith'. She doesn't clearly understand why you need a sexual relationship with your spouse, but it's not strictly necessary that she do so. She must take it on faith that YOU need it, and be willing to comply.

 

For your part, and in understanding of her POV.....you have to NOT allow this rejection of your sexuality to be accepted as a rejection of YOU personally. You've got to separate these two aspects in your mind if you want to approach this from a state of serenity.

 

Now that your words are out....they need to be backed up with actions. There are alot of different actions available to you at this point. It all depends on how big of a statement you want to make.

 

1. You can see a lawyer, and find out what the financial repercussions of divorce will be. You can do this either with, or without, her knowledge. There are pros and cons to each of course. If it were me, I'd probably see a lawyer without her knowledge. The benefits of that would be that I would know my options, and not be committed to acting upon them.

 

As a statement though, her knowledge that you're considering divorce is a dramatic one. It's worthy of consideration.

 

2. You can make another appointment with the MC. It might make you feel a bit better to talk it out with someone who will listen. I don't see the benefit of inviting your wife along at this time though. She needs to want to be there in order to derive any benefit from it.

 

The side-benefit is that as a means of proving your case to a potential family law judge, should divorce become necessary.....the fact that you submitted yourself for MC will make quite a statement in your favor.

 

3. You can lay out an ultimatum now. One idea would be to get 2 copies of The Sex-Starved Marriage, or 2 copies of His Needs / Her Needs, present her with one of them and then just tell her flat-out....."Either you read this within the next two weeks, or I'm seeing a divorce lawyer."

 

This option 'ups-the-ante', true. But it also supports your previous words with potential action.

 

4. Ask her for her statement in writing that she has abandoned the sexual aspect of her marital relationship with you. Tell her that you have no recourse but to begin seeing other women in order to have your sexual needs met, and that you don't intend to be accused of infidelity in the future by doing so.

 

This would start another fight....but that's the whole idea. Of course, you'd never act on this. It's a bluff to get her attention. It lets her know that the issue is NOT going to be swept under the rug this time, and that you're looking for permanent resolution. Wear a good poker-face, and don't get rattled. And if you can actually get her to write out the statement, so much the better.

 

5. You could start packing your things.....and move out. I do NOT recommend this to you as a course of action, particularly without consulting an attorney. It leaves you disadvantaged in divorce settlement.

 

6. You could move to another area of the house, and get into a state of minimal contact with her. That would be a matter of 'letting her stew'. This would depend on if she actually LIKES that or not.

 

If she's the kind of person who doesn't care if you're talking to her or not....well, she'd have no incentive to change anything. If she's one who can't stand 'the silent treatment'.....it might get her thinking.

 

Something like this would be likely viewed by her as "childish". Personally, I doubt it would be effective. As a means of withdrawing some of the emotional needs that you are currently meeting for her.....there could be possible merit.

 

She WILL accuse you of being "childish" is you elect this option, and WILL stay focused on that belief. However, in conjunction with Option #4.....she might have to wonder if you mean it or not.

 

 

 

Those are just some ideas of actions you can take. I'm sure that there's alot more, and hopefully we'll get some input from other posters.

 

The important thing now is that you back your words up. I'd give it a few days to sink in, let her think about it. But if a week has passed, and you think she's sweeping it under the rug.....consider selecting an action.

 

Of course, you can simply end all this now. See the lawyer FOR REAL....and file for divorce. That's up to you, but as an option, it IS a viable one.

 

It depends on how much effort you still want to put into this thing. Your outcome in terms of true reconciliation is NOT guaranteed, no matter what you do anyhow.

 

Likewise, you are NOT guaranteed to find greater happiness if you elect to divorce.

 

I know it might feel like you've made the situation worse by having this talk with her....but really, the alternative was to go on in your current relationship indefinately.

 

You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, right?

[Outcast]

me "I need for you to know how big a problem this is for me and that you're willing to work on it"

 

her "no,I'm not"

 

I am so sorry. But now you know. Perhaps you delayed this all this time because you dreaded hearing her repudiation of you - this is absolute proof she doesn't love you, or at least doesn't love you as much as you deserve to be loved. She can't be bothered trying to fix it. That's all you ever needed to know.

 

Congratulations on finally stepping out and facing it. It confirmed what you've known all along but didn't want to acknowledge. It's a killer to think you've spent years loving and caring for someone who didn't care enough.

 

But you're alive and kicking and it's not too late to find someone worthy of you.

[midlifecrazy]

Outcast I guess the only thing I really don't go along with is your choice of the words being "worthy of me". Our situation feels like the words in the old song, "there's only you and me and we just disagree". She can't combine love and sexuality and I can't seperate it. Granted it's taken a long time for me to realize how wide and insurmountable the gap was between us.

 

Lady J, Mrs MLC continues to be remarkably resilient and painfully oblivious to the gravity what's going on. Saturday, the day of "the talk", afterward she was kind of quiet and subdued for the rest of the day. By Sunday she was back to normal and it was like nothing had happened. It continues on the same way today. I guess the only way she's going to take Vesuvius seriously is when her house in burning down. Unfortunately it's already on fire and she can't smell the smoke.

 

You mentioned capitulation. Actually, you might consider she did that.

at one point in the talk, after she had told me the only reason she ever made love to me was to keep me shut up about it, she said all she had ever been was treated like sh@t all her life and there was no reason to change things now. So what did I want, she 'd do anything I wanted her to do cause she was just a worthless piece of crap that didn't deserve any better,crying all the time.

 

Romantic, huh? I think they call that a phyrrhic victory. To me it sounds like rape and I'm not a rapist. That last incident where she was crying while we made love was bad enough. Now I know how she really feels about it, I don't think I'll ever be able to touch her again. Its awful to feel that someone is just humoring you, hoping you'll get done fast and trying to endure you while you're expressing your love to them in the most intimate and sincere way you know how.

 

So yeah we are at opposite poles and she's never going to move. I know now she can't. It's just impossible for her. And of course she has no interest in trying. And as a result there's not going to be any more ultimatums, counseling,etc. We have irreconcilable differences and have reached the point of irretreivable breakdown.

 

I'm not really in a rush right now. I'm going to take some time and consider my moves given the way things are. Absolutely will have to see a lawyer before I do anything drastic. And she won't know about it until after I talk to him. I guess a little of the sting has worn off because right now she has a very short window of opportunity to pull this thing back. If she would come to me and say "honey, I'm sorry that I have this problem but I really will try to work on it with you" then we'd have a chance. It's not going to work in 3, 4, 5 or 6 weeks when she finally realizes "hey he hasn't been "after" me. What's up?" and then try to initiate some lovemaking. Damn this is running long and its late so this must be CONTINUED LATER.

[Outcast]

Outcast I guess the only thing I really don't go along with is your choice of the words being "worthy of me". Our situation feels like the words in the old song, "there's only you and me and we just disagree". She can't combine love and sexuality and I can't seperate it.

 

I'm sorry, MLC, but in every case, including yours, I consider someone who refuses to work on a relationship as someone not worthy of a partner. It has nothing to do with your sexual situation and everything to do with the fact that she values neither you nor your relationship enough to try to work with you to salvage it.

 

IMHO that is the clearest form of rejection. You're just not worth it to her.

[Mz. Pixie]

3. You can lay out an ultimatum now. One idea would be to get 2 copies of The Sex-Starved Marriage, or 2 copies of His Needs / Her Needs, present her with one of them and then just tell her flat-out....."Either you read this within the next two weeks, or I'm seeing a divorce lawyer."

 

This option 'ups-the-ante', true. But it also supports your previous words with potential action.

 

4. Ask her for her statement in writing that she has abandoned the sexual aspect of her marital relationship with you. Tell her that you have no recourse but to begin seeing other women in order to have your sexual needs met, and that you don't intend to be accused of infidelity in the future by doing so.

 

WOW! Ladyjane had some good ideas here. MLC- I don't think she see's what's brewing because basically, I think she thinks you're stuck. I think that she thinks that you will never leave, either because of finances or because of the kids and grandkids or because you're just too dang honorable. I think that she just thinks that it's too bad you feel this way, but what are you gonna do about it?? She doesn't in her heart believe you're going anywhere. Just like my exh never believed I would go anywhere. In the back of my mind I can still hear him saying "But I don't have time to work on our marriage, I'm too busy"

 

I'm not saying you have to prove her wrong. I'm sorry on more levels than I can relate to you that this happened. It could be that she won't wise up until you start packing, but then again, she may never care.

 

It strikes me that many times when a spouse leaves another after a long long marriage, how many times could it be over issues like this?? We just

never know the real truth behind the divorces and affairs yet many sit in judgement. It's just sad........

 

I don't have any advice past what LJ said, but again, I'm very sorry that she wasn't receptive to what you said to her.

[midlifecrazy]

I think she thinks you're stuck. I think that she thinks that you will never leave, either because of finances or because of the kids and grandkids or because you're just too dang honorable. I think that she just thinks that it's too bad you feel this way, but what are you gonna do about it?? She doesn't in her heart believe you're going anywhere.

 

I think you're dead on here MzP. That's exactly the way I feel she see it. And yes this has been an eye-opening experience. I think I mentioned before that there has been a major outbreak of affairs and divorces in my little corner of the world. I always mainly tried to keep my nose out of other people's business. But this has really driven home the point that you should never be judgemental about what you don't know all the intimate details. There's always two sides to a story and you never know what people have gone through or had to put up with by what you see on the surface.

 

Outcast, yeah, maybe when you put it that way. It may be harsh, but true.