Moose Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 1 COR 13: 4-7 "Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices when the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.....Love will last forever."Now, that's what I'm talking about just about everywhere on this forum. If only people would believe it, and apply it. Hang in there my brother! Link to post Share on other sites
fleafly Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 A native American grandfather was talking to his grandson about how he felt. He said, "I feel as though I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is the vengeful, angry, violent one. The other wolf is the loving, compassionate one. The grandson asked him, "Which wolf will win the fight in your heart?" The grandfather answered: "The one I feed." - Native American story This is the way I have felt for the last month of my life, feeding the vengeful, angry violent one. "Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices when the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.....Love will last forever." This is where I need to get to. Thanks for the cry TMW, after I read that, I let it all out- you are a stronger man then I could ever hope to be. flea Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 3, 2005 Author Share Posted March 3, 2005 Originally posted by fleafly Thanks for the cry TMW, after I read that, I let it all out- you are a stronger man then I could ever hope to be. I am no better than anyone else......but there is one thing i am.....and that is humble.... The hurt and pain I feel will go away.....time is all I have now.... The sex part of my wifes affair isnt bothering me as much as i thought....i;m sure it will surface the next time we have sex. Its the lying and deciet that hurts me....and it hurts me deeply.....this will take time....but I will make it.....becasue I have faith..... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Thumbs, with what you've just gone through in the past few days, it just blows me away that you've come to that conclusion so fast. DO you it takes MOST months, maybe years to get to that place of knowledge and faith? The love that you have inside you is awesome and with that brings hope to everybody. I can apply what you've said into my own life and my own daily in's and out's of my anxiety disorder. Can get through just about anything with that attitude...I just hope more of it rubs off on me. Thanks TMW! I mean that. Link to post Share on other sites
erika2610 Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by izzybelle tmw, i too am stunned by what's happened, i've seen some of your other posts and i am truly sorry!!! i can't even imagine the pain. i will be the lone voice here, however. i do agree that telling her supervisor's boss may make sense but i believe that may only go so far. without proof, they probably won't fire his butt. as for telling his wife.... i wouldn't. in all honesty, that part of the A is his to deal with, if your W wanted to do it..., i still have mixed feelings. i know you're angry and hurt and have every right to be, but exposing this and telling the whole world will accomplish what? embarrassment? humiliation? isn't this a "private" matter between you and your W? will telling people make her more likely to come back because she's too embarrassed not too? is that really the way you want it? the days of the scarlet letter have passed, personally, i'd much rather see you channel your anger into repairing your marriage or figuring out what to do. talking to him is one thing but i don't see that there's anything to be accomplished by telling his W. and there's always the chance that his W will boot him out the door, and then what will happen? he'll be free and your W will be .....? i hope you see where i'm going with this. revenge while it may feel sweet at the time has a tendency to create a bitter outcome. please, please, please, just think things through before you do anything that could have dire consequences down the road. I agree.. what's telling his W going to accomplish? She's just as innocent in all this as you are.. why put her through all of that? You're just going to cause more hurt to an innocent W.. I wouldn't do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Telling his wife would open HER eyes to the affair. It would give HER the chance to know what's going on in her marriage...just like TMW needed too. On top of that, if SHE knows, it's going to force the OM to focus on his marriage, one way or another. And that is going to draw him even further away from Thumb's wife. I say tell her. Don't come across as vindictive, not that you would. But tell her like YOU would want to be told. She deserves to know the truth, just like you did Thumb. Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 On top of that, if SHE knows, it's going to force the OM to focus on his marriage, one way or another. And that is going to draw him even further away from Thumb's wife. there is NO guarantee about this... or maybe TMW and his W know that for sure, i don't know. it is dangerous to assume that it will force him to focus on his marriage, and there's always the possibility that it will draw him closer to thumb's wife, i've seen it happen. owl, and others who have been cheated on, i completely understand from your perspective of being a BS why you feel she should know. and i will FREELY admit since i'm not in your shoes that i don't completely understand the intricacies of all of this. but that said.... although thumb's wife's behavior has in one way, drawn these two families together, MM's marriage, MM's relationship with his wife is his business. when we choose to try to light a fire under someone else's butt to get them to do something that we think is the RIGHT thing to do, we always run the risk of getting burned ourselves. as i said before, if thumb's wife is commited to working on the marriage, and from what i've read, she is, then the two of them should focus on that and NOT draw the other parties even further into the mess. make the separation, leave it alone, let it die, let the fire go out on it's own, which from thumb's strength and determination, i have no doubt that the fire of the A will quickly become a pile of ashes. let it be, stirring it up, blowing it around could fan any remaining flames. drawing his W into it will only add a whole other layer to it all. what if she want's all the answers and wants to talk to his TMW's W, much like he wants to talk to MM? what if she's not willing to let it die as quickly? what if she pushes him out the door? what if she wants "revenge" on thumb's wife? what if she decides to take out a full page add in the local newspaper? what if she's angry and wants to destroy thumb's W's reputation? what if she loses it and says something to their kids about what an awful person their mom is? yes, there's the what if she forces her M to cut all contact, as well, but there more negative things that could come out of this. if you do one of those positive vs negative lists, the negative possiblities are going to far outweigh the positives. there are TOO many what if's, you CAN'T control that person's reaction to all of this. and while i understand your feelings of "she has a right to know" my whole take on it all is that that's not TMW and his W's main concern, their M is their main concern at this point. and if the A is truly ended, why add a whole other level of interaction into the situation? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Owl, I am torn on this whole issue of exposure. Part of me wants to jsut move on....the other wants to expose him to his W. On one part....by not exposing.....HE will have to suffer internaly......his conscince (if he has one) will be his punishment. On the other part....if i expose him to his W....then he will suffer alot more...and so will his W and his family. But maybe that is what this OM needs....why should he get off free? Then what if his W leaves him?....and he trys to contact my wife?. I'm scared of what that will do to my wife. My W said she was in love with him...and he said the same about her. But know, I believe the reality of it all is setting in with my wife. The reeality that this was all just a false love, a infatuation.....but on the same hand, my W says the OM filled needs that I didnt..... The OM was not at work yesterday.....but his wife called in about 6 times. In fact my wife answered 2 of the phone calls from her. My wife said, she felt nervous on the phone with her......she also said, that she wanted to expose him to her....and that she dont know what to do.... WE DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT THIS.....as time goes on....I am just getting more confused on this whole issue.....I am very confused.....my head is still not clear on what the right thing is to do.... I told my wife to go into work today...with head held high....smile on her face....dont let him see you sweat....show thru your actions that you are above this....you are going to be OK....you are my wife and he is nothing to you.... Some things she recollected about what he has said thru this whole thing....OM has said to her "Wow, your good at this...I cant belive you havent broke yet". I believe my wife sees the truth behind this.....he had no intentions of taking this anywhere....he was in this for his cake...nothing more. She is starting to believe that this cannot be the only time he has cheated. She said he was sooooo good and persavsize in his words....he could draw her in wiht his sauve words. I told her, thats waht they do....they prey on your vulnerablities....and he was very good at it. She is slowly starting to realize the deception he played on HER....and she is angry at him for this...and angry at her self for letting it happen..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by izzybelle there is NO guarantee about this... or maybe TMW and his W know that for sure, i don't know. it is dangerous to assume that it will force him to focus on his marriage, and there's always the possibility that it will draw him closer to thumb's wife, i've seen it happen. owl, and others who have been cheated on, i completely understand from your perspective of being a BS why you feel she should know. and i will FREELY admit since i'm not in your shoes that i don't completely understand the intricacies of all of this. but that said.... although thumb's wife's behavior has in one way, drawn these two families together, MM's marriage, MM's relationship with his wife is his business. when we choose to try to light a fire under someone else's butt to get them to do something that we think is the RIGHT thing to do, we always run the risk of getting burned ourselves. as i said before, if thumb's wife is commited to working on the marriage, and from what i've read, she is, then the two of them should focus on that and NOT draw the other parties even further into the mess. make the separation, leave it alone, let it die, let the fire go out on it's own, which from thumb's strength and determination, i have no doubt that the fire of the A will quickly become a pile of ashes. let it be, stirring it up, blowing it around could fan any remaining flames. drawing his W into it will only add a whole other layer to it all. what if she want's all the answers and wants to talk to his TMW's W, much like he wants to talk to MM? what if she's not willing to let it die as quickly? what if she pushes him out the door? what if she wants "revenge" on thumb's wife? what if she decides to take out a full page add in the local newspaper? what if she's angry and wants to destroy thumb's W's reputation? what if she loses it and says something to their kids about what an awful person their mom is? yes, there's the what if she forces her M to cut all contact, as well, but there more negative things that could come out of this. if you do one of those positive vs negative lists, the negative possiblities are going to far outweigh the positives. there are TOO many what if's, you CAN'T control that person's reaction to all of this. and while i understand your feelings of "she has a right to know" my whole take on it all is that that's not TMW and his W's main concern, their M is their main concern at this point. and if the A is truly ended, why add a whole other level of interaction into the situation? this is close to what my wife and I are thinking/feeling......we dont understand what we should do.... we want to just move on and focus on US.....let it die..... March 1, 2005.....is the first day of the rest of my life.....I dont wanna dwell...I want to live in the new.....but I'm just SOOOO confused..... Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 thumb, I believe my wife sees the truth behind this.....he had no intentions of taking this anywhere....he was in this for his cake...nothing more. She is starting to believe that this cannot be the only time he has cheated. She said he was sooooo good and persavsize in his words....he could draw her in wiht his sauve words. I told her, thats waht they do....they prey on your vulnerablities....and he was very good at it. She is slowly starting to realize the deception he played on HER....and she is angry at him for this...and angry at her self for letting it happen..... i know my perspective here, may not be as welcome because of my background in all of this. i'm an ex (recovering) OW, but what you said above is VERY important from that perspective. we get caught up in the fantasy of all of it and yes, many MMs know exactly the right and best things to say to pull someone into that web of deceit, and it's a sticky web. she is beginning to untangle herself from all of that, and that is an important first step. seeing the reality and beginning to pull herself free. it is all intoxicating, it is addictive and i can't even begin to tell you how important her realizations are! she will have a long way to go before she is completely able to let it all go. but be there for her, and i know you will. from what i've read from both of you, while i do believe that you have a rather bumpy road ahead of you, it sounds like you're taking this journey together, leave the others behind, don't bring them on this journey with you any further than you have to! my best to you both! izzy Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Some things she recollected about what he has said thru this whole thing....OM has said to her "Wow, your good at this...I cant belive you havent broke yet". I believe my wife sees the truth behind this.....he had no intentions of taking this anywhere....he was in this for his cake...nothing more. She is starting to believe that this cannot be the only time he has cheated. She said he was sooooo good and persavsize in his words....he could draw her in wiht his sauve words. I told her, thats waht they do....they prey on your vulnerablities....and he was very good at it. She is slowly starting to realize the deception he played on HER....and she is angry at him for this...and angry at her self for letting it happen..... Thumb, Take this to heart... HE will never be the one who knows when she's not feeling well, feeling down or just having a crappy day. HE does not know her moods, her looks and what each mean...Sighs and facial expressions too. HE isn't going to be the one to hold her head over the toilet if she is throwing up. HE isn't a friend to her. He doesn't listen to her, he doesn't respect her. HE is in it for HIMSELF...Puts HIMSELF FIRST. YOU have history, a past, you have such a deep love and you KNOW her...He doesn't. I'm glad she is starting to open her eyes about him and RID of the fantasty she's built him up to be. He is never going to leave his wife. Not ever. Good that she's realizing this too and soon enough she'll be strong enough to work through it and say WHAT A SELFISH PRICK and completely forget about him. Another suggestion is, TELL HIM if he contacts your wife in any way that crosses the professional line his wife will be contacted and told of the A. I don't know if that helps or not, just some more thoughts here... Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Thumb- My last comment on the exposure thing, and then I'm done. If his wife had found out about the affair in the same way you did, and if she KNEW what you know now.... Would you want her to tell you? Or would you have preferred to not to know about the affair? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by Owl Thumb- My last comment on the exposure thing, and then I'm done. If his wife had found out about the affair in the same way you did, and if she KNEW what you know now.... Would you want her to tell you? Or would you have preferred to not to know about the affair? Owl....that is a very tough question....I just dont know.....I really dont know what to think right now...my head is numb still.....I am very confused....I am scared.....I need more time to think..... Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I just dont know.....I really dont know what to think right now...my head is numb still.....I am very confused....I am scared.....I need more time to think..... then don't think about it for now.... focus and you and Mrs. Thumb! worry about that when and if you are ready to. it will ALWAYS be an option. no point in feeling like your more in "system overload" mode than you need to be at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Well....that's the one bit of good news you've got now friend. You HAVE the time to think. There is nothing forcing you to make decision on how to do this right now. Think it through. Decide what the best thing is for you, and for your marriage. I still feel for you bro...I really do. You've been one of the people I turn to when I'm in bad straights. I'm sure you realize that when we see something like this here on LS, it causes ALL of us who've been hurt in an affair to stop and worry somewhat if something like this could happen (or be happening) to us. We've all mentally put ourselves in your shoes. Hang in there...keep your head above water. Keep your faith. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup YOU have history, a past, you have such a deep love and you KNOW her...He doesn't. she said the very same exact thing to me on the phone this morning......I am the only one who really knows her.....I know who she realy is......and who she was the last few years is not who she realy is.... shes been running a long time....and now is the time she needs to stop and let go of her inner pain.....and she understands that.....but shes scared too.....sometimes life just wont leave you alone. BUT we have to face it for what it is....accpet it, live it and work to be free in our spirit..... 34 years old....and she is just starting her life...... Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by Owl I still feel for you bro...I really do. You've been one of the people I turn to when I'm in bad straights. I'm sure you realize that when we see something like this here on LS, it causes ALL of us who've been hurt in an affair to stop and worry somewhat if something like this could happen (or be happening) to us. We've all mentally put ourselves in your shoes. Brother.....if I can give anything back to LS for what it has given me. It would be my story..... if people can learn from this situation and truely feel the anguish and pain my wife and i feel..... if it can spark the conscience of a cheater to really truly think about they are doing...... if it can give an ounce of the TRUTH of the hurt and pain that infidelity causes.... if my story can make someone confess or keep someone from temptation..... then I hope it does...my story will be my ministry... Link to post Share on other sites
fanou22 Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I may not be the right person to participate in these discussions but I felt the need to counter what Izzy said. Obviously this is the first break that TMW's wife is having from her MM. Having been through these motions, I had been lured back more times than I care to remember. Exposing the affair to the OM's wife is what should be done in this case. I am sure that MM had been kept updated throughout the whole ordeal. He knows he has a stronghold on the wife since she stayed with him after the discovery. If the affair gets exposed to his wife, then he will have his ordeal to deal with instead of devising plans on how to get your W back in the sack. Link to post Share on other sites
Bronzepen Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by ThumbingMyWay Owl....that is a very tough question....I just dont know.....I really dont know what to think right now...my head is numb still.....I am very confused....I am scared.....I need more time to think..... I apologise if I missed anything because I haven't read your thread from start to finish. Have you gone to your family for support? Parents, brothers or sisters, aunts or uncles? Your smart to be going to a counselor. But having your family supporting you will help you deal and eventually overcome this whole situation. Your going to have a lot and I mean a lot of "what if" scenario's, going through your mind. I know it's very difficult right now for you but try not to dwell on the what if's. Your trying to make sense of your whole situation. How could this happend to me? Try to focus. The root of the problem is, the trust of your relationship has been broken. The question is "Can you ever trust your wife again?". Only you can answer this question. You want to start over and move on but you haven't even closed the door to the past. It's still wide open. Let me tell something, that door is going to be open for a while. In the end you and only you, will close that door. Remember this. There is nothing you could have done to prevent this from happening. The choice your wife made was her's and her's alone. You can try to analyze all you want, ask as many questions as you want or seek somekind of revenge. In the end, you will realize that there was nothing you could have done to prevent this from happening. What your feeling is your loss of innocence. The feeling that this could never happend to my marriage. Your in shock and disbelief. Only time will heal but the scar will remain. The kind of person that you thought your wife was is now a stranger to you. Can you ever trust her again? Do you think she is capable of cheating on you again? If you believe there is hope then give her the help and support she needs to prevent her from doing that again and start working on rebuilding your trust. If you don't believe there is hope then don't drag on the pain and go your seperate ways. Think long and hard (not days but months) and only focus on this one question. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by fanou22 If the affair gets exposed to his wife, then he will have his ordeal to deal with instead of devising plans on how to get your W back in the sack. I agree with statement too.....but I am still undecided.... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 she said the very same exact thing to me on the phone this morning......I am the only one who really knows her.....I know who she realy is......and who she was the last few years is not who she realy is.... shes been running a long time....and now is the time she needs to stop and let go of her inner pain.....and she understands that.....but shes scared too.....sometimes life just wont leave you alone. BUT we have to face it for what it is....accpet it, live it and work to be free in our spirit..... 34 years old....and she is just starting her life...... I'm glad she aware of this and told you on the phone. Kinda ruins her fantasy of this guy doesn't it. You know her and the person she was...You WILL know her again and the person she can BE again. Therapy will definately help her reach this. Yes, she's 34 and starting her life...This bad downswing now can only go back up. There is no more rock bottom, it's already happened so going UP is the only way to go. Exposing the affair to the OM's wife is what should be done in this case. I am sure that MM had been kept updated throughout the whole ordeal. He knows he has a stronghold on the wife since she stayed with him after the discovery. If the affair gets exposed to his wife, then he will have his ordeal to deal with instead of devising plans on how to get your W back in the sack. I agree with fanou on this one, especially the last part. I agree with statement too.....but I am still undecided.... Thumb, you got time on your side right now...It's okay - So take your time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by fanou22 If the affair gets exposed to his wife, then he will have his ordeal to deal with instead of devising plans on how to get your W back in the sack. If I did..... how do i tell her?. Do I call her....send her a letter in the mail?....go to her house in person?..... My wife said last night....she is even tempted to tell her next time she calls into work..... still confused.....need time to process this.... TIME TIME TIME..... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 My wife said last night....she is even tempted to tell her next time she calls into work..... If she does do this...She better be ready for the fallout and the W will come after her. She really needs to think about it and not just blurt it out one day on the phone. When in doubt, do nothing. Just safer all around right now. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup When in doubt, do nothing. Just safer all around right now. I agree.... Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 When in doubt, do nothing. Just safer all around right now. A cheater can also think that in whether or not to tell their spouse.. Just food for thought.. Link to post Share on other sites
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