How is it possible to ever trust again?

[James-London]

Hi everyone.

 

So, I was on LS a lot last year after my ex cheated on me. Details are not so important (although feel free to read my threads if you're curious). Suffice to say that all the stories I see on here about blame shifting and all the red flags people talk about really resonated with me.

 

Its now been just over a year since my D-day in August 2013. I really tried to get the full truth out of her and of course it trickled out, just like with everyone else!! I probably know most/all of what happened now, but would not at all be surprised if there was more..... Anyway, I've been single now for just over a year and I do still think about her and what she did everyday. But its in a more emotionally detached kind of way now. There are still gaps in my understanding but I know I will simply never fill those gaps. So, I have learnt to be satisfied with that (or at least desensitised to being unsatisfied with it).

 

Hopefully, I am now ready to move on and meet other women. However, it does worry me that I would NEVER really be able to trust a woman again. Obviously, that will impact on my future love life, especially as I am a very open guy and like to share my feelings.

 

So, the messages I am hearing on LS are these:

 

1. A woman can cheat on me even if she is 100% happy with the relationship. Even if I am the man of her dreams and she is looking for nothing else. Is that REALLY TRUE?

 

2. I am also hearing on here that most women are susceptible to cheating. I have heard people claim that everyone might cheat, others say that a large minority of people would cheat. Others still are saying that only people who are really immature, insecure, unhappy with themselves etc. could cheat.

 

3. I'm also hearing that if I let my guard down and show a woman my vulnerability then I will not be presenting myself in an alpha way, and she will basically not respect me for it. Similarly, if I start doing everything to make her happy and please her, then she will see me as a doormat and again she will not respect me. In these cases, she will become receptive to other male attention, and might cheat when the opportunity presents itself.

 

The above 3 points paints a really bleak picture of any future romance!! Looking around, infidelity seems to be very, very common. And it is not just for people who can't cope with life or are someone not able to think of others. You have presidents of nations and other highly successful people who cheat... I have also heard horrific stories on here of spouses leading what they thought was a happy married life only to find out that their SO had been cheating for years and years!!!

 

To be frank, is a relationship even worth it? As I am coming through this experience with all my scars, how could I ever trust someone again??... Perhaps I am destined to be haunting these forums for the rest of my life so I can warn people away from ever trusting anyone ever again....

 

Perhaps I should look out for the insecure and emotionally immature people and then avoid them like the plague. Perhaps I should keep an eye on how much my partner is contributing/sacrificing to the relation and whether there is a power imbalance... But then again - it seems everything can be right and you still get cheated on!!!! WTF??? I would be especially interested to hear from WSs on this.

 

I know this is not another post about a recent infidelity. This posted is intended to be more forward looking. Perhaps that is a welcome change... Anyway, thoughts/criticisms/discussion welcome.

[James-London]

Btw - I only mentioned relationships with other women on here as I'm a straight guy, but I'm sure it what I say works just as well for relationship with men. So, thoughts from both sides are most welcome.

[FusionCutter]

You obviously are still very beat up over this. I suggest you draw inspiration from relationships of friends and family. Lot of people have successful relationships. I think Cheating is not the norm. Healthy relationships are.

[firemanq]

You were lied to , & cheated on. Of course you will have difficulty trusting someone new. But now you know some of the signs of infidelity and be prepared to protect yourself.

 

 

Having said that, you also need to be aware not all people are cheaters and

[James-London]

thanks everyone. I was just thinking that all these stories are pretty spine tingling stuff. However, I don't think what happens on LS is a fair reflection of what normally happens in reality, for obvious reasons.

[HermioneG]

thanks everyone. I was just thinking that all these stories are pretty spine tingling stuff. However, I don't think what happens on LS is a fair reflection of what normally happens in reality, for obvious reasons.

 

LS has a high concentration - as would any site dealing with infidelity of marriages and relationships where people cheat.

 

I still think and believe it is more common to not be a cheater than to be a cheater.

 

That being said- yes. Cheating happens in all sorts of relationships- and the takeaway from that should be twofold:

 

1) Happiness is an inside job.

 

2) We do not control other people.

 

I still believe the majority of people are good people. That people want to be helpful more than they ever want to be harmful. I don't blindly trust anyone, anymore, but I watch and observe actions. It's good.

[No Limit]

Don't evne try to make a list when it comes down to relationships. You'd have to make a list for every woman on the planet.

[Popsicle]

First of all, congratulations for leaving your WS. You are one of the few courageous and brave ones and you did the right thing.

 

Answer below in bold

 

1. A woman can cheat on me even if she is 100% happy with the relationship. Even if I am the man of her dreams and she is looking for nothing else. Is that REALLY TRUE?

 

No, it's not true. I am firm believer that something is missing in the marriage/relationship if they are cheating. Some people cheat out of plain old boredom too (which means you're not the man of her dreams, btw). They don't realize they are bored which is a big problem and when you combine boredom with a lack of clarity of what's going on, some will cheat. The same happens with men.

 

2. I am also hearing on here that most women are susceptible to cheating. I have heard people claim that everyone might cheat, others say that a large minority of people would cheat. Others still are saying that only people who are really immature, insecure, unhappy with themselves etc. could cheat.

 

No, it's absolutely not true that most women cheat.

 

3. I'm also hearing that if I let my guard down and show a woman my vulnerability then I will not be presenting myself in an alpha way, and she will basically not respect me for it. Similarly, if I start doing everything to make her happy and please her, then she will see me as a doormat and again she will not respect me. In these cases, she will become receptive to other male attention, and might cheat when the opportunity presents itself.

 

Also not true.

 

It's really sad to see the damage that cheating does to BS's. I have never met/seen one that wasn't scarred for life. If it were me, I would vow to let it all go and forget about it (AFTER I left the WS) and not rob myself of my happiness by being a lifelong hostage carrying about emotional baggage from a cheating spouse. No way would I let them win like that!

[purplesorrow]

1. People in all types of situations cheat, yes even happy relationships. Sometimes there is something missing in the person that cheats. A bad, sad, bored, passionless, etc relationship is a reason to talk to your mate, ask for counseling or leave. Not cheat!

2. No, all women do not cheat. My marriage/relationship couldn't have been worse after dday. I had probably never felt so hurt before. I managed to forgo strange penis as a solution and decided on counseling instead. I chose a healing path, imagine that.

3. It's not your job to make someone happy. You and your relationship should only augment what is already there.

[BeholdtheMan]

Hi everyone. 1. A woman can cheat on me even if she is 100% happy with the relationship. Even if I am the man of her dreams and she is looking for nothing else. Is that REALLY TRUE?

 

No one is every "100% happy" with a relationship. It is the human condition to never be 100% satisfied with something. Your wife or GF might love you a ton but that doesn't prevent her from being attracted to other men. No one is immune to temptation. Some people are simply better at resisting it.

 

By the way, women also enjoy sexual variety (though not as much as men). It's possible for a woman to get sexually bored with the same man despite loving him as a life partner.

 

Human beings are complex creatures with complex desires. Women and men are all vulnerable to temptation.

 

2. I am also hearing on here that most women are susceptible to cheating. I have heard people claim that everyone might cheat, others say that a large minority of people would cheat. Others still are saying that only people who are really immature, insecure, unhappy with themselves etc. could cheat.

 

People are susceptible to temptation. It's not really a gender thing. Probability of cheating is determined by ability to cheat (ability to find an AP) and desire to cheat.

 

My theory is that compared to men, women usually have a greater ability to cheat and a lower desire to cheat. Thus in a way, men are no better than women when it comes to cheating.

 

3. I'm also hearing that if I let my guard down and show a woman my vulnerability then I will not be presenting myself in an alpha way, and she will basically not respect me for it. Similarly, if I start doing everything to make her happy and please her, then she will see me as a doormat and again she will not respect me. In these cases, she will become receptive to other male attention, and might cheat when the opportunity presents itself.

 

The key isn't never to show weakness. The key is to show only a little weakness. You don't want to show so much weakness that weakness because your defining characteristic.

 

Weak guy = turn off

Strong guy who shows a bit of vulnerability every now and then = turn on

 

This is about mental strength and self-control. If you're mentally weak, men and women will have a hard time respecting you

 

The above 3 points paints a really bleak picture of any future romance!!

 

I understand that you're still dealing with the pain of betrayal...but don't think of reality as bleak and hopeless. Think of reality as a state of affairs you have to learn to master.

 

Cultivate independence and mental strength. Your happiness shouldn't be dependant on another person. Also, you'll be able to cope with a cheating partner much better if you're a guy who has plenty of options. Yeah it hurts when someone betrays your trust, but if you have the ability to easily find someone more worthy of your affection, that really helps to ease the pain

[Striver]

1. People in all types of situations cheat, yes even happy relationships. Sometimes there is something missing in the person that cheats. A bad, sad, bored, passionless, etc relationship is a reason to talk to your mate, ask for counseling or leave. Not cheat!

2. No, all women do not cheat. My marriage/relationship couldn't have been worse after dday. I had probably never felt so hurt before. I managed to forgo strange penis as a solution and decided on counseling instead. I chose a healing path, imagine that.

3. It's not your job to make someone happy. You and your relationship should only augment what is already there.

 

All very valid points. I know plenty of women - my mother and a couple of sisters in law for three - that have been presumably faithful wives, supporting their good but flawed husbands through the decades. My mother wasn't perfect herself, but she loved my father and supported him. I know many other good wives.

 

I do think there are some double standards. If I did what my WW is doing - splitting up a family with three small children for another man, causing the family to move out of the family home, without any MC or any real effort at all to make the marriage work - I'd be viewed much more harshly. With certain women, this "I deserve to be happy" business is still a justification.

 

Certain women still also engage in the endless bashing and critiquing of their husbands and marriages (without anything ever being communicated to the husbands.) I was often told of the various quirks of the husband of a friend of WW's, now realizing that I was being bashed in the same way in other conversations. Well, she married him and had a kid with him. Pick someone else then. But it's never the woman's fault. Then after all of this complaining, she had another kid with him. Which I would hope put to an end the complaints about prior quirks or whatever. There should be some sort of marriage statute of limitations there.

 

I don't know a lot of men who sit around and disparage their wives. Again, a man who slams his wife, calls her fat and ugly or whatever, is not highly thought of.

[drifter777]

A little cynicism can be a good thing. The betrayal you endured made a scar over your heart to try and protect you next time. That is one good thing that came from her cheating - it made you wiser and toughened you up.

 

Of course all women are not cheaters. The problem is you can't tell them apart until they slip the knife into your back. So assume all of them will cheat and guard yourself as best you can. If you are not looking to have kids then why would you want a relationship? Just date for fun and companionship and don't take any of it seriously. You are free! Enjoy that freedom.

[James-London]

thanks guys. looking back, and also hearing other peoples stories on LS, all the cheating signs were very visible. she really invested nothing and sacrificed nothing for the relationship.

 

She was affectionate and she did really care about me, but she never really made a decision to be serious and commit to me. I see that now. I guess it helps to know that as it means I never really had her to begin with, so I really lost nothing.

 

Also, she had real feelings for this OM. I can't argue with that. Its not my fault, and its not even her fault. I just feel resentful that she told me all that nonsense about how she loves me, wants to be with me and how the OM was not important. If she just told me the truth, it would have been a whole lot easier in the longterm.

[revelations]

Hey James-London,

 

I'll give you my opinion on your questions. First thing to remember is that not all women cheat, just like all men don't cheat. In the States most of the states family courts will side with the woman, so if the woman cheats and gets caught it can be a big payday for her if her BH divorces her. So while not all women cheat, most are not discouraged from it. Now if you base women cheating by what you read here on LS, then it can be very discouraging to find another woman. After all some of the cheating wives on here have been some of the worst of the worst. Some of these women do stay with their BH and even make amends. Other women will see how much they can torment their BH and enjoy his pain. Both men and women are susceptible to cheating, the difference is that men stand to loose a lot more by cheating than women do.

 

Now in any relationship eventually you will let your guard down. I mean let's face it over a number of years eventually your guard will be down. The trick is to see what the woman does when she knows your guard is down. Not all women will take advantage of a man with his guard down. I have always tried to treat my lover as my best friend and an equal. I have also learned that eventually you will be taken advantage of by doing this. It is not so much as presenting yourself as an alpha male, it has to do with how much can she get away with. For example a girls night out turns into a mixed company (men and women) outing that your not invited to. Then it turns into sleep overs, main excuse used is too drunk to drive. Then if she still has not gotten an angry responds from you that night out turns into a weekend, maybe at another guys house. So it really does not have to do with being an alpha male, it is how far can she go before you get upset.

 

I understand that you are hurt because you were cheated on. Trying to not repeat the same pattern that got you a cheating wife is a good sign. The problem is that no matter who you end up with, there is always a chance that she might cheat. I have known women who cheated on every boyfriend and husband and one day settle down with one guy and never cheat again. I have also seen women that were normally very faithful to their past boyfriends and such and cheat on their husbands 10 years into the marriage. So if you plan on falling in love with another woman their is a chance that she will cheat on you. Their is nothing you can do about that. The truth is that you cannot control what your lover does, the only control you have is what you do and how you react to it. You can keep an eye out for warning signs that she is cheating, however that is not bullet proof. I look at it this way, the gamble is not in trying to find a woman that won't cheat on you. Everyday is a gamble that the lover your with is cheating on you.

 

I still go on dates once in a while, more for entertainment than anything else. I have given up on finding a woman to settle down with. When I looked back on my life I could see where a woman's presents has caused a lot of unwanted drama in my life. You may want to consider not looking for another wife or live in lover. Just date a little and leave it at that. Yes their will be some people that will try and put you down because you don't have a love interest. When I come home, my place is peaceful, I get to do anything I want from video games, reading to watching a movie. If I want to go out, I just go. For myself that peace and freedom is what makes me happy. Most people try to insinuate that you have to have a lover to be happy. That is not true, happiness comes from within. If another woman comes along that enhances your happiness then great. However you have the freedom to dump her sorry butt if she starts screwing with your happiness. You might want to look into Going Your Own Way or Men Going Their Own Way. Look up articles such as "Where have all the good men gone" and look up Mens Rights Movement and A Voice for Men. Their are a lot of men out their now that have given up on marriage or a live in lover. It has nothing to do with "Poor me I can't find a woman", instead it is adapting to a world that has become hostel to men. So going your own way does not mean shunning women entirely, instead it is setting up rules for yourself to follow. Look up those things, it can be a real eye opener for you. Until then I would suggest not dating seriously and start to do some things you like to do. Pick up a book and read it, go fishing or camping, build a muscle car, just do something that you have always wanted to do. Enjoying life does not mean you have to have a woman at your side. Remember women do not hold the key to happiness, you do.

[compulsivedancer]

You know, I thought I was happy in my relationship, but I wasn't. We had been through some rough times and I didn't realize how rough until they were past. I was depressed about my job scenario and prospects. I didn't see much hope as far as where we were living. And my H was busy enjoying his career to the exclusion of everything else, including me.

 

But I loved my husband and I still loved spending time with him, so it still felt like our relationship was good, and I didn't see how vulnerable I had become. I didn't like myself much and I wanted someone to tell me (and show me) I had value in his eyes.

 

Like your xW, I had never fully committed to the relationship. H always knew it on some level, but I didn't really realize what it meant.

 

All this to say, what seemed like a good, happy relationship really wasn't. We were going through the motions. H was taking me for granted, and I was hurt, jealous and resentful because of it and several other things.

 

As far as trusting, people say trust and verify as far as WSs go. I'd say trust but be wary with a new woman. Don't be afraid to let your guard down, but also keep the warning signs in the back of your mind. Know what healthy looks like and always work toward that. Keep your eyes wide open, but don't let that keep you from committing. Etc.

 

Don't overthink. Don't be afraid to love because you've been hurt. That's a terrible way to live.

[BetrayedH]

For me, I definitely brought that sense of paranoia/hypervigilance/lack of trust into my next relationship. I found myself even wanting to track her at one point when I wondered if she was really going where she said.

 

Ugh.

 

It didn't take long for me to shake it off. It was ridiculous. She wasn't the person that had done all of this to me. And that's what really solidified it for me. It was that simple.

 

Was my GF a risk? Sure. I was with my wife for 18 years and didn't see it coming. But that vulnerablity comes with the territory. There are no guarantees.

 

So then you choose. Be vulnerable (and a bit wiser for having been burned before) or forget committed relationships. Revelations presents a good case for the latter. I chose the former and haven't regretted it (2+ years and counting).

 

The choice is yours, of course. If I have a point, I think it's just that I was able to shake the trust issues faster and more thoroughly than I expected once I really got into a more committed relationship. Like you, I wondered if I'd ever be able to trust again. It ended up being less of an issue than expected and, again, mostly because she's a different person, it's a different relationship, and I'm a bit wiser and a bit less naive than I was before.

Edited August 26, 2014 by BetrayedH

[James-London]

thanks. Good to hear what its like on the next relationship. I would really like to meet someone else. Someone better. There are so many things that I would do differently and that I would never put up with again. hopefully, I will be able to trust again, and it is just a matter of desensitisation to what happened. But I will carry the lessons I learnt with me. Probably the scars too.

[BetrayedH]

thanks. Good to hear what its like on the next relationship. I would really like to meet someone else. Someone better. There are so many things that I would do differently and that I would never put up with again. hopefully, I will be able to trust again, and it is just a matter of desensitisation to what happened. But I will carry the lessons I learnt with me. Probably the scars too.

 

That all sounds pretty on-target to me. But keep in kind that the "someone better" thing doesn't always happen. It can take a long time to figure out that another person is also broken inside, just in a different way than the last one. My current relationship also has it's struggles; they're just different. I'm learning a whole new set of relationship/life lessons.

 

But hell, to your point, I suppose the word better is still perfectly appropriate. There's not much worse than having an unremorseful adulteress for a wife. So yeah, I hope the next one's better for you, too. I think you'll be fine, James. Like I said, I think you'll realize that you do want a relationship in the future and it's going to require some measure of being vulnerable. And when it gets down to it, you'll probably be willing to take that risk in exchange for the rewards, especially since it's not with the exwife that actually did all that crap.

[Friskyone4u]

Just some thoughts as far as women and cheating is concerned. I believe it is much easier for a woman to cheat and they are better at it, but it is harder for them to stop when caught, which is why the percentage of marriages that break up over wen cheating is much higher that the other way around. How is it easier to cheat

(1) a married woman can find a sex partner anywhere, anytime. Men pursue women. In any given scenario, it is far easier for a woman out to find a sec partner. Bar, internet, cheating website, gym, you name the place she has an advantage.

(2) men do not care if she is married. your wife can tell guys she is married. They will not care. You try that and 90% of women will want no part of you.

(3) women can spend an entire day in bed with their affair partner, walk in the door and have sex with you and fake it as long as they can spread their legs. Not that easy for men, especially as they get older.

What ends more marriages where women cheat is that women get more emotionally attached before cheating and so the longer it goes on the more convinced they are that they are in love with their AP. For men it is mostly about the sex and once that ends men are able to detach more quickly. That is why if you look at the OtherMan/Woman forum, it is almost entirely full of women unable to stop mourning their affair partner when they get caught.

 

The bottom line is for you just to realize not all women do this but all are capable and it is easy to get burned if you start to see red flag sign and ignore them. Their is no crystal ball . You are responsible for your own emotional safety even if in a marriage

[beatcuff]

it does worry me that I would NEVER really be able to trust a woman again.

 

why? seriously?

 

i had a friend who was mugged by three black men. that was his reason for hating ALL black people. why does one person paint an entire gender or race or group.

 

you are making that statement to deflect from your X's flaws and even more importantly your failure to notice. as time move on hopefully you will understand your X made choices, that's all. we are all flawed. some are just not damaging to the relationship.

[Man Mountain Makino]

Bro, don't hold one woman's behavior contaminate your opinion of every other woman you encounter.

[Striver]

Read the threads. Occasionally WS will leave because of substantial issues/neglect of the BS, or because WS is toxic, but BS had huge blinders on from Day One. In those cases BS usually is not too confused as to why things happened.

 

In all other cases, BS usually is caught by complete surprise. Looking back, we can see things here or there that wound up mattering, but it would take massive deductive skills to have seen it coming. In those cases, it's best just to move on after appropriate mourning time and not keep trying to figure things out. Don't throw good time after bad.

 

Some people are really just best suited to being in a LTR/marriage. They should feel free to pursue another as soon as they're ready. Other people just want casual dating, or have a full enough life with kids/job/hobbies/pets that they don't need to date much now or ever again. Other people want to travel and tick things off their bucket list. But don't sit in some lonely room trying to figure things out. Make use of the time you've been given on this earth.

[James-London]

I appreciate all this advice. I spend most of the time thinking about all the reasons why I should move on from her. Usually, these are: a) she was interested in the OM, she enjoyed him chasing her, b) she never really made investment or committed much to being with me.

 

When I think of it like that, it is fine to move on. Its like I never really lost anything because I never had it in the first place... But then other times I think of all the tears when she says she loves me and how the OM is not important etc. This stuff gets to me because I feel I have lost something.

 

However, I cannot imagine how it is possible for her to say she loves me/wants to be with me when she is also happy to chat to the OM on FB and even blow him kisses. I just find that outrageous and confusing.... Again - its really fine if she wants someone else. I can deal with that. But its like she keeps her hook in me by telling me how special I am, but then not really wanting to let go of the OM!!!!....

 

any ideas?

[purplesorrow]

I appreciate all this advice. I spend most of the time thinking about all the reasons why I should move on from her. Usually, these are: a) she was interested in the OM, she enjoyed him chasing her, b) she never really made investment or committed much to being with me.

 

When I think of it like that, it is fine to move on. Its like I never really lost anything because I never had it in the first place... But then other times I think of all the tears when she says she loves me and how the OM is not important etc. This stuff gets to me because I feel I have lost something.

 

However, I cannot imagine how it is possible for her to say she loves me/wants to be with me when she is also happy to chat to the OM on FB and even blow him kisses. I just find that outrageous and confusing.... Again - its really fine if she wants someone else. I can deal with that. But its like she keeps her hook in me by telling me how special I am, but then not really wanting to let go of the OM!!!!....

 

any ideas?

Yes... Stop falling for that rotten bait! Have you ever seen how fast a fish will swim away once you take it off your hook? You know the right thing for you is to move on. Stop letting her play games with you. You're never going to figure her out. Spend that time investing in yourself and someone else worthy of it.

[2.50 a gallon]

beatcliff

 

 

Logic over matters of the heart, for most of us it doesn't work that way. When I caught my Ex kissing a guard where she worked. Logic took over and I kicked her to the curb and walked away. But logic did not heal my broken heart. It hurt like he double hockey sticks for years.

The kind of pain that I never want to experience again. So the logical thing to do was swear off ever falling in love again.