Can death change an abuser

[new2014]

I was together with an ex husband for over 10 years during which time there was abuse- name calling, belittling and smashing things. We have one child together

 

We broke up and I moved into a women's shelter with our daughter.He started work on a man's abuse prevention programme and changed slightly.

 

He remained in contact with my family, a red flag for abusive men and a year ago his sister was diagnosed with cancer and passed away recently.

 

I then managed to find out he was in another relationship with a sister in law of his old friend on the funeral and broke down. Prior there had been problems with child maintenance payments. However he doesn't earn much and he has so much responsibilities. On top of the child maintenance he also pays for a car that I use with our child, going to school etc. Finance did put a lot of strain on our relationship. I have been very unlucky finding jobs,set up failed businesses myself but will be starting a new course to improve career prospects.

 

Ex thought it was all over and told my sister he felt very pleased to have seen me on the funeral. He quickly arranged an activity weekend with the children including that of the deceased before the memorial and decided to spend time with my family. On the memorial day he seemed to have put the new women on the backbench. He kissed me and hugged me upon leaving although I did not reciprocate. This was followed by telephone calls although I managed LC

 

I am a little confused. Do I give him support. He is another relationship and I do not know whether its a rebound. He is very desperate and needy plus, something attributed possibly to the death of his close relative.His actions are possibly being governed by emotions rather than thoughts

 

Also can a death of his sister change him for a better person. They were very close and he was taking care of her. Can NC work in times likes this considering he was seeing someone else. How can I do it politely.

 

 

Any advice on this one?

Edited August 25, 2014 by new2014

[Zahara]

You need to focus on you and your child and stop finding excuses to break contact with your ex.

 

I'm not sure why you are failing to understand that the fact you tolerated abuse during your relationship requires YOU to maintain NC so that you can focus on yourself and why you allowed it -- you can't help anyone if you can't even help yourself make right choices in your life. Polite is irrelevant -- not at the cost of your moving forward.

 

He is needy and desperate, yet he left you and found himself a girlfriend? And when he felt that you were back in the picture, he dumped her like was yesterday's news. Cold and unkind. I'm sure he can find ways to comfort himself. You're not his crutch.

 

It doesn't matter whether he's with someone, not with someone, if it's a rebound or not -- the fact remains that he isn't healthy and safe for you and your daughter. You stick to NC because of that regardless of whatever is going on in his life. The priority is you and your daughter.

 

And stop focusing on whether a death in the family can somehow make him change. It's been said that with disordered people, it could be a wake up call, but not necessarily a guarantee because most times they normally go back to their ways after the shock has subsided.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Zahara

[Tayla]

Yes it can change the person. now give him a fond adieu and let him now heal in his new life choices. He and you had your moments and now its time to grow in separate ways. Be civil to him though since even the worse of us deserve compassion when a loss has occurred.

[bathtub-row]

Can death change an abuser? Absolutely! If he's the one that dies.

 

These guys. I say it all the time so everyone is probably tired of hearing it but abusers deserve an Oscar for their sheer capacity to act. In case you hadn't figured it out yet, they are true "drama kings", as I call them, because they thrive on drama. So, his sister's death was nothing more than an opportunity to pull the 'poor me' act and to be dismissive to his current girlfriend. He killed two birds with one stone. How convenient!

 

Sorry..., what part of this act of his makes you think anything has changed with him? Please stop excusing his bad behavior and stop feeling sorry for him. He's a grown man and he should pay child support. Please do not ever let yourself forget that this man drove you to a women's shelter. Enough said.

[todreaminblue]

if a killer who had murdered people learned that his mother had died assuming he had a good loving relationship with his mother....he would feel the loss even though he was a murderer...he would react differently after the loss......maybe be more reflective .....feel sadness ....whatever.....he still murdered people.....

 

 

your ex and what he has done is no different to when his sister was alive and there is no guarantee it would not happen again.....he is in a relationship with someone yet he is kissing and hugging you....not so particularly good a thing in my mind...he isnt stable or set in a path ...dont let him drag you into thinking it might be a path with you

 

 

 

be supportive, be compassionate,he is the father of your child, that is all, do not entertain thoughts about your ex now being a changed man ...he is still the same man he was two months ago one year ago ...three days ago ...it is inconsequential to you...he has another woman and you have a life that you need to lead way from him ...regardless whether he has changed or not.....deb

[Tayla]

With all due respect to your past experiences todreaminblue, its wise to give people the benefit that change can transpire, even for those that chose poor behavior. Perhaps I am one of the few that is blessed to have had people say that I could change despite my poor and bad behavior in early years. So I believe we owe this person that same option. No one is above another to keep them down after such a loss. Sorry but I sincerely beleive that a person can change.Does it mean to those that they harmed have to suddenly forgive or be any less cautious? Nope. It does mean that at any point in life, we have that option. We do NOT have the right to condemn a person when we ourselves have less then clean slates, no matter where we are in our growth. Its called being humble that we have walked that path and someone didn't label us for life. I am not justifying this mans actions, I am saying that He is no less of a person when it comes to experiencing grief and all the sorrow that goes with it.

[bathtub-row]

With all due respect to your past experiences todreaminblue, its wise to give people the benefit that change can transpire, even for those that chose poor behavior. Perhaps I am one of the few that is blessed to have had people say that I could change despite my poor and bad behavior in early years. So I believe we owe this person that same option. No one is above another to keep them down after such a loss. Sorry but I sincerely beleive that a person can change.Does it mean to those that they harmed have to suddenly forgive or be any less cautious? Nope. It does mean that at any point in life, we have that option. We do NOT have the right to condemn a person when we ourselves have less then clean slates, no matter where we are in our growth. Its called being humble that we have walked that path and someone didn't label us for life. I am not justifying this mans actions, I am saying that He is no less of a person when it comes to experiencing grief and all the sorrow that goes with it.

 

When dealing with abusive people, giving them the benefit of the doubt and/or second chances is basically a death sentence. If you read the statistics, about 0% of them ever change. They are born manipulators and being understanding or forgiving toward them is what gets women in trouble, and is what keeps them stuck in these twisted relationships. Every woman alive should have a zero tolerance for abuse. These guys don't deserve second chances.

Edited August 26, 2014 by bathtub-row

[TAV]

Can death change an abuser? Absolutely! If he's the one that dies.

These guys. I say it all the time so everyone is probably tired of hearing it but abusers deserve an Oscar for their sheer capacity to act. In case you hadn't figured it out yet, they are true "drama kings", as I call them, because they thrive on drama. So, his sister's death was nothing more than an opportunity to pull the 'poor me' act and to be dismissive to his current girlfriend. He killed two birds with one stone. How convenient!

 

Sorry..., what part of this act of his makes you think anything has changed with him? Please stop excusing his bad behavior and stop feeling sorry for him. He's a grown man and he should pay child support. Please do not ever let yourself forget that this man drove you to a women's shelter. Enough said.

 

Aw, I wanted to say that! And that is the only truth. Keep it in mind, OP.

[bathtub-row]

Aw, I wanted to say that! And that is the only truth. Keep it in mind, OP.

 

Lol!

[todreaminblue]

With all due respect to your past experiences todreaminblue, its wise to give people the benefit that change can transpire, even for those that chose poor behavior. Perhaps I am one of the few that is blessed to have had people say that I could change despite my poor and bad behavior in early years. So I believe we owe this person that same option. No one is above another to keep them down after such a loss. Sorry but I sincerely beleive that a person can change.Does it mean to those that they harmed have to suddenly forgive or be any less cautious? Nope. It does mean that at any point in life, we have that option. We do NOT have the right to condemn a person when we ourselves have less then clean slates, no matter where we are in our growth. Its called being humble that we have walked that path and someone didn't label us for life. I am not justifying this mans actions, I am saying that He is no less of a person when it comes to experiencing grief and all the sorrow that goes with it.

 

i never said he was a lesser person but he is in a relationship with someone else......so he is taken.....i wrote to be supportive and compassionate.......i just dont think getting back with him in times of grief is a good idea to start with supporting him yes, being compassionate to him yes.....giving him all th esupport he needs ...sleeping with him no...my ex has changed and become a better person.....doesnt mean i should be with him though ...when he is with someone else.....from what i read her ex is with someone...i dont see how i was unwise in what i said, i stand by the fact i said she should be compassionate and supportive .......maybe the murderer losing his mum thing or using that was a bit much....i know that people can change.....i advocate for that.i am friends with both my exes they beat me.....but...i wont be with them again or contemplate that....the ops ex being with someone and kissing and hugging on her, to me, shows an instability ..........deb

Edited August 26, 2014 by todreaminblue

[Tayla]

When dealing with abusive people, giving them the benefit of the doubt and/or second chances is basically a death sentence. If you read the statistics, about 0% of them ever change. They are born manipulators and being understanding or forgiving toward them is what gets women in trouble, and is what keeps them stuck in these twisted relationships. Every woman alive should have a zero tolerance for abuse. These guys don't deserve second chances.

 

I know of one statistic , every person living and breathing upon this earth will with certainty die. What we choose to do in the mean time is 100% our choice and Zero percent someone else in telling us we cannot or will not change simply because of poor choices. The OP asked if someone can change, and I support my answer,. I do agree on the zero tolerance and I have about that with some of the opinions that are bias .

[Tayla]

i never said he was a lesser person but he is in a relationship with someone else......so he is taken.....i wrote to be supportive and compassionate.......i just dont think getting back with him in times of grief is a good idea to start with supporting him yes, being compassionate to him yes.....giving him all th esupport he needs ...sleeping with him no...my ex has changed and become a better person.....doesnt mean i should be with him though ...when he is with someone else.....from what i read her ex is with someone...i dont see how i was unwise in what i said, i stand by the fact i said she should be compassionate and supportive .......maybe the murderer losing his mum thing or using that was a bit much....i know that people can change.....i advocate for that.i am friends with both my exes they beat me.....but...i wont be with them again or contemplate that....the ops ex being with someone and kissing and hugging on her, to me, shows an instability ..........deb

 

Great! we both agree that folks can change and that its okay to move forward in life. Thanks Deb for clearing that up!

[todreaminblue]

Great! we both agree that folks can change and that its okay to move forward in life. Thanks Deb for clearing that up!

 

they can tayla....but we dont know if this guy really has do we.we dont know him at all or the extent to which the op was abused in the relationship....could be really really bad.........i think caution is needed......with respect to you tayla....deb

[bathtub-row]

I know of one statistic , every person living and breathing upon this earth will with certainty die. What we choose to do in the mean time is 100% our choice and Zero percent someone else in telling us we cannot or will not change simply because of poor choices. The OP asked if someone can change, and I support my answer,. I do agree on the zero tolerance and I have about that with some of the opinions that are bias .

 

I don't know what your situation is or what you're referring to when you talk about yourself, but for abusive people, they always say they've changed when they end up alone. The reason they think that is because they no longer have a target. Get them back in a relationship, and it's back to the same old stuff again.

 

Ok, let's say about .0000001% of them change. Whatever. If my spouse made my life so miserable that I ended up in a shelter, it's all bets off. He can jump off a cliff for all I care. He could change and then change again. It would make no difference to me. I have no sympathy for people like that because I know what they're like. And I'm really curious about what part of the OP's story makes you think this guy has changed? I must be missing something.

[Tayla]

they can tayla....but we dont know if this guy really has do we.we dont know him at all or the extent to which the op was abused in the relationship....could be really really bad.........i think caution is needed......with respect to you tayla....deb

 

I think the differential inquiry is between two concepts: One that a person can change and Two: that violence in and of itself is simply non negotiable in a relationship.

 

I never said for this lady to get back with this man. The Direct and objective question posed was: Can he change? And can Circumstances get better if he would. I am not here to argue, I am here to resolve and give objective answers to this poster.

 

And yes Deb, caution and time will tell if this mans events have influenced him into changing his poor actions and behaviors.

[Tayla]

I don't know what your situation is or what you're referring to when you talk about yourself, but for abusive people, they always say they've changed when they end up alone. The reason they think that is because they no longer have a target. Get them back in a relationship, and it's back to the same old stuff again.

 

Ok, let's say about .0000001% of them change. Whatever. If my spouse made my life so miserable that I ended up in a shelter, it's all bets off. He can jump off a cliff for all I care. He could change and then change again. It would make no difference to me. I have no sympathy for people like that because I know what they're like. And I'm really curious about what part of the OP's story makes you think this guy has changed? I must be missing something.

 

You are absolutely right, it would make no difference to you.

I think you are placing words where there are none. Re-read and if you find where I clearly said that this MAN changed I will gladly eat my humble pie. Until then, keep progressing.

[M30USA]

I believe even the most degenerate human being CAN change. That's the optimistic side. The pessimistic side is that is rarely happens and takes a complete breaking of the person's pride--which is the one thing most terrible people refuse to do. But, yes, otherwise they could be changed.

[new2014]

Yes my question was really trying to figure out if adverse circumstances like death of someone so close change someone who is emotionally abusive.

[Zahara]

Yes my question was really trying to figure out if adverse circumstances like death of someone so close change someone who is emotionally abusive.

 

They may, they may not. That isn't a risk that should be holding you back or causing stagnation on your part to focus on why you have tolerated being in a situation that diminished you. Change has to happen on your part as well.

 

There is no clear cut answer.

 

The only thing you can do apart from banking on "what if" or "can he" is to keep moving forward.

[new2014]

For now I can say death seems to have made things worse. He is emotionally unstable and I have been researching a lot about this disorder. He fears abandonment and has so much emotional baggage, death of his sister now, of his father when he was young and obviously this new relationship which seems to have been a rebound..

 

I did NC but he hasn't been respecting my boundaries. I have blocked his number although he has successfully managed to call me with a private number. Gosh I was drawn into the conversation and something I regret, however the conversation highlighted more of the disorder, denial, sweet talk though he had sent an unpleasant text just the day before. I did tell him firmly that I wanted space and time and that I wasn't there to heal his wounds and this is something he had to sort out himself. I told him that he wasn't respecting my boundaries. He apologised and now said he will give me the space and time. Now he seems happy but I am inclined to think he is thinking that things will work out though I have made up my mind. I will stick to this NC. I want to move on because I know he has a disorder he doesn't recognise.

[TAV]

You are not his therapist, so stop talking like you are. He is your ex-bf who treated you very badly. Whether he recognises his disorder or not is not your concern. He is no dating material. Find someone who is.

 

How can you receive his text if you have blocked his number? That does not add up. Don't lie to yourself.

 

Even if you pick up a private number (why would you anyway? If it is important they will leave a msg) you do not have to engage in conversation as soon as you hear it is him. Stop giving him rope to hang on to. You are not doing yourself any favours. You are worth more. Start believing that!

[new2014]

Yes you are right ..next time I should be strong and hang up.

 

The reason I mentioned those facts which seems like I am his therapist is following my original post as to whether death of a loved one can change someone. I have been doing a lot of research following a mention here on this thread regarding a possibility of being emotionally unstable. It opened a lightbulb and its giving me the edge to move on as I got to realise it could be something that cannot be changed unless the person seeks to change themselves.

 

I blocked his number using an app on my phone, so he may have tried to call but it hanged up and then he tried successfully with the hidden number, which took me by surprise. The app shows blocked text message- perhaps I should not check the messages either.. but there is a child involved so its a bit tricky.

Edited September 3, 2014 by new2014

[Zahara]

Yes you are right ..next time I should be strong and hang up.

 

NC is not his responsibility to adhere to. It is your responsibility to enforce it and stick to it. At a time as volatile as this, why would you pick up an unknown number. As TAV mentioned, if it is important they will leave a message. It's an excuse for you because you do want to communicate with him.

 

The reason I mentioned those facts which seems like I am his therapist is following my original post as to whether death of a loved one can change someone. I have been doing a lot of research following a mention here on this thread regarding a possibility of being emotionally unstable. It opened a lightbulb and its giving me the edge to move on as I got to realise it could be something that cannot be changed unless the person seeks to change themselves.

 

You're so busy researching about him that you're missing the point. YOU. What about YOU tolerated abuse? Do some research on you and focus change on yourself and stop investing energy focusing on what may or can change him.

 

I blocked his number using an app on my phone, so he may have tried to call but it hanged up and then he tried successfully with the hidden number, which took me by surprise. The app shows blocked text message- perhaps I should not check the messages either.. but there is a child involved so its a bit tricky.

 

If he really wants to see his child, he will leave you a message. If you have no willpower with him in terms of setting boundaries where you only communicate about your child and seeing that he has no respect for your boundary, then if it is important enough for him, he will leave a message and you can then respond accordingly.

[new2014]

Just to update

 

I went completely NC but then he went on my sister requesting communication. I told her not to intervene and that I needed space.

 

After failing to get contact he is now resorted to child support and now challenging payments and the arrangements.

 

Will I ever be at peace? I was deluded to think that a death of beloved one would change things.

[TAV]

No, since you share a child you will never be completely free from this man. However, he is grasping at straws to control you. You have to realise that. You are in command here. He knows you are slipping away.

 

He will probably soon turn his attention to another woman (sadly) and you can finally breathe...

 

And, no, he won't change, please give up on that idea and continue to live your life in freedom.