Finally ready...

[venusishername]

From the beginning, I thought you should just be straightforward as to kill any of these mixed signals and/or feelings you are receiving.

My honest opinion though is he is just not that into you. It seems he was fine pursuing you aggressively until he slept with you. It's harsh, but truthful.

 

I agree with you, Heartshaped. It's happened to me before, and it's basically like 'well, I wouldn't kick her out of bed' if we saw each other again; obviously if you were once attracted to someone it's the same at any point in the future. In this case, we were talking and hanging out regularly (albeit for a short period of time) and were intimate and had some fun times together and dates, and he likes me and clearly likes what he sees. He just isn't asking me out anymore.

 

Serious question: do you think all men who flirt are interested, and vice versa?

No, but I know the difference between flirtatious conversation and ogling and staring, which is what he has been doing. No need to be patronizing, I'm a grown woman and I'm experiencing it in the flesh and I'm not making this up in my head to feed my ego

 

I think you are reading waaaay too much into this. He's not calling you. He's not texting you. He's not making plans with you. He's not trying to spend time with you. He's acknowledging that you exist. You have no interaction outside of purely coincidental meetings. He's just flirtatious because, hey, he's a flirt and he knows you eat it up.

Flirting does not necessarily indicate interest. I would not be "sure" that a man who never intentionally saw me or spoke to me was interested.

Honestly, I think he has the right idea. Don't be awkward when you see him. Smile, wave, make small talk, etc. Then go about your business. It doesn't have to be more than that.

 

I UNDERSTAND and I don't disagree with you! I KNOW that I can't read to much into it because he stopped his pursuit after we slept together and after I declined his invitation to meet later that week. He didn't sleep with me and just drop me though. He did try to see me again and we continued communicating. I left for my trip and asked to see him and he left it vague and said he did want to get together, but nothing ever came of it. Yes, that indicates that the interest dropped and/or he met someone else, whatever happened.

Now, I wouldn't say he's just 'acknowledging that I exist' though. Why bother stopping me on the street if I didn't see him anyway, or crossing the street to talk to me and ride up on a bike if I didn't see him, you know? I don't see that as just being friendly and casual... maybe he's testing the waters to see if I'm still interested, I don't know...that's what my friends thought. If I saw someone I wasn't interested in anymore, I wouldn't make a point to approach them if it could be avoided. If we happened to cross paths, I'd be friendly and civil but certainly wouldn't flirt.

Sigh... I don't know. I've decided not to reach out to him and set a meeting, but when we cross paths again, I guess two can play this flirting game. He can go ahead and stare and ogle all he wants. Maybe I'll blow him a kiss or something and he can enjoy the view as I he watches me walk away.

Edited October 20, 2014 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

No, but I know the difference between flirtatious conversation and ogling and staring, which is what he has been doing. No need to be patronizing, I'm a grown woman and I'm experiencing it in the flesh and I'm not making this up in my head to feed my ego

 

Ogling and staring isn't the same as interest, either. Nobody here doubts that he's checking you out. It just doesn't mean he has any kind of romantic interest. Ogling and staring is an unfortunately primal reaction.

 

Why bother stopping me on the street if I didn't see him anyway, or crossing the street to talk to me and ride up on a bike if I didn't see him, you know?...If I saw someone I wasn't interested in anymore, I wouldn't make a point to approach them if it could be avoided. If we happened to cross paths, I'd be friendly and civil but certainly wouldn't flirt.

 

Because of the ego boost! He can tell based off of your reaction that you love it, he can tell that you're completely crazy about him. Every time he does that is a reminder that he's pretty hot sh-t and that you want him badly. He doesn't care about looking too interested because he's not actually pursuing you so you can't get the wrong idea. He's just being a flirt and you're totally wrapped around his finger without his even doing anything. He probably likes knowing that. If you were to blow him a kiss it would just confirm what he already knows: "ha, I haven't even called her in a month and she's still TOTALLY obsessed with me." Why stroke his ego any more? Just wave the next time you pass by and go on with your day.

[boilingpoint]

Afterwards, I thought what the hell, I'll just text him and say it straight out (because I'm really a very straightforward and honest person) that if you want to be friends and hang out, let's do that. You wanna be more than friends? I'm ok with that too. If you're not interested, just tell me. I didn't text him, but I'm feeling particularly confident lately and putting myself out there in general, so the thought of saying that to him boosted me up.

 

Then do it. Don't imprison yourself mentally with this obsessive inner dialogue that has no conclusion. You obviously need to hear it from him.

 

I was a little dressed up and he said how great I looked, where am I going looking so amazing, etc. I made a joke about the shoes I was wearing and he said 'I hadn't even gotten that far yet' meaning he was too busy checking the rest of me out. Insert my giggling, lots of smiling on both ends.

 

Honestly this kind of sexual compliment completely lacks subtlety IMO - it's akin to me going up to a girl and saying - 'watch me **** you with my eyes.'

 

It would probably turn me off but yet you eat it up... I'm a guy though.

 

OP I'm sure you're very attractive but also vain. This guy no doubt likes your appearance but it doesn't look like there's much connection beyond the sexual.

 

How he perceives you personality wise makes the difference here.

Edited October 20, 2014 by boilingpoint

[venusishername]

If you were to blow him a kiss it would just confirm what he already knows: "ha, I haven't even called her in a month and she's still TOTALLY obsessed with me." Why stroke his ego any more? Just wave the next time you pass by and go on with your day.

 

I wasn't serious about that, Chimpan-z I really don't think people think that way as you say. I just mean there's no harm in being flirtatious back at him. I don't mind teasing and flirting a little if we're going to have this banter.

 

Don't imprison yourself mentally with this obsessive inner dialogue that has no conclusion. You obviously need to hear it from him.

I really wouldn't even know what to say if I did ask. I'd have to do it in person. Plus, what you go on to say below seems to be my answer anyway....

 

Honestly this kind of sexual compliment completely lacks subtlety IMO - it's akin to me going up to a girl and saying - 'watch me **** you with my eyes.'

Yup, that's exactly what it was. He's been doing that since day one and yes, I like it. The same way it's probably an ego boost for him that I giggle and smile back at it, it's also a boost for me. This is extremely frustrating and silly. Clearly the primal attraction is there, why the hell are we not continuing to act on it?!

 

OP I'm sure you're very attractive but also vain. This guy no doubt likes your appearance but it doesn't look like there's much connection beyond the sexual. How he perceives you personality wise makes the difference here.

I know this is the real reason. That sucks, though... I think I have a good personality... I'm social, friendly, lively, educated and I think I have a lot to offer. He and I got on well and had good conversations and laughed and had things in common to talk about. I don't want to be pigeonholed because I'm considered 'pretty' or 'hot'. I guess it's just a matter of being the right fit with someone or the right time, whatever.

Edited October 20, 2014 by venusishername

[venusishername]

I want to understand how I can go about things differently so that I can learn from these things. I can't help it, I still think about him here and there... being that we live in the same town and I'm always wondering when he might approach me again like he did the last time. I want to take each dating experience as a lesson and I've been encountering a lot of 'options' lately and I want to go about things in a smart way.

 

I find myself falling into the same patterns, although I really do want to put forth effort into building a relationship with someone... I'm ok with starting casually and then if it is the right fit then let it progress beyond if that's the case. But like in this example, I'm lusting after someone who is totally unavailable. If we see each other again he's going to approach me and flirt... I'm trying to understand this because it's very frustrating. I read another thread here and it rung a bell. I think he was really hoping for something fun and no strings attached with me because that's just where his head's at right now being kind of newly divorced and back in town again, etc. When I brought up the 'DTR' talk, and was resistant to sex, he seemed to be a little confused or affected I should say, then he ended up backing off. I can tell he does like me, is obviously very attracted to me, but it really is just a matter of wanting different things. This happened to me a year ago with someone, just the other way around. Now a year later I'm kicking myself because I'd be lucky to date that guy. I just wasn't ready or interested in any 'pressure' he might put on me... because he wanted something more than casual. I definitely liked him and he didn't do anything wrong, I just wasn't ready.

 

I know it's not me. I know I'm not ugly, boring, stupid, or a complete bitch. I have no trouble at all meeting men. It's just a matter of it being a good match or me being available/interested or the other person being available/interested.

I hooked up with someone on Halloween that I had met before through a friend. I made out with him because I was drunk and lonely and caught up in the moment, and I haven't been touched by a man since, well, Labor Day in the shower. He's attractive enough but not my type and his personality rubs me the wrong way. Anyway, he gave me his number and seems interested in seeing me, and I feel guilty because I have no desire to ever contact him. But it begs the question as to why I push people away and am drawn like a magnet to the unavailable types. Which makes me think I'm not 100% available either. It's not something to be forced. There must be a good reason why.

 

I think I've been trying to 'force' meeting someone to attempt to develop a relationship to 'keep up with the Joneses' in my family and friends' circles, where maybe I'm not really 'ready' after all and should finally embrace being single. I used to think a relationship would define me and make me 'better' or more fulfilled. But I've finally learned that isn't so at all. I am the only single person in my family and group of friends. I have one single girlfriend left. But instead of as before fighting it, within the past month or so I'm finally embracing it and even enjoying being lonely. I'll never be here again, so I may as well enjoy it! It's actually made me more confident and happy to have that attitude. I can tell the difference.

 

I just want to learn from each experience and go forward with some wisdom when it comes to these things. I also want to avoid the cycle I keep putting myself in.. which is hard to realize at the time it starts.

Edited November 3, 2014 by venusishername

[heartshaped]

I'm ok with starting casually and then if it is the right fit then let it progress beyond if that's the case.

 

I think this a problem. Sure, some people like you are okay starting casually and letting it progress if it's the right fit. But I think most people when they start something casual or say that, they truly only want something casual.

 

I think you'd do better approaching each situation from the standpoint of you want to build a relationship with someone. If that person isn't on the same page then you can only move on.

 

I agree you and the man you originally started this thread about just wanted two different things.

[venusishername]

I think this a problem. Sure, some people like you are okay starting casually and letting it progress if it's the right fit. But I think most people when they start something casual or say that, they truly only want something casual.

 

I think you'd do better approaching each situation from the standpoint of you want to build a relationship with someone. If that person isn't on the same page then you can only move on.

 

I agree you and the man you originally started this thread about just wanted two different things.

 

I am confused by your post. If I feel the way I do about being ok with starting out casual, then what you are implying is that I'm truly only LOOKING for something casual. Maybe that is truly the case and I need to be more honest with myself.

But if that were the case for example with the man I started the thread about, I'd probably still be seeing him. I have many opportunities for 'casual' relationships that I choose not to take. This is what leads me to believe that I'm not really interested in that.

Edited November 3, 2014 by venusishername

[venusishername]

Anyone? Could use some input and support.

 

 

Probably not a good idea to compare but I'm following another thread that seems incredibly similar to mine and it brought up all this insecurity again.

Plus I'm reading what others are posting there who commented on my thread and I don't see much of a difference. Too bad I haven't met anyone else I feel the same about since. I would like to though!

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

A player made a move on you at a bar, you fell head over heels, when you told him you wanted a relationship he said he wasn't into it, and that was that. That's happened to millions of people and I didn't think you did anything wrong. But what drew me in was the way you hung on afterwards, tried to explain away his indifference, then convince yourself you were cool with it, spun a scenario where he was actually still very interested but couldn't say it, and so on. You were spending so much mental energy when nothing was actually happening and that hit home for me.

 

It's good to recognize what you want. You don't want guys like him. If it happens again, remind yourself that you deserve someone who adores you and treats you well (and who inspires the same feelings in you). There's no need to settle for good enough or what little you can get.

[Weezy1973]

I want to understand how I can go about things differently so that I can learn from these things.

 

But it begs the question as to why I push people away and am drawn like a magnet to the unavailable types. Which makes me think I'm not 100% available either. It's not something to be forced. There must be a good reason why.

 

Genuine question - what's your relationship with your father like? What was he like while you were growing up?

[cif]

Natalia's thread differs from yours in that we don't know yet that the guy has lost interest. While in your situation it was obvious the guy was not interested.

[BluEyeL]

I think we know in both cases that the guys are not interested. The only difference is that Natalia didn't sleep with the guy.

[venusishername]

A player made a move on you at a bar, you fell head over heels, when you told him you wanted a relationship he said he wasn't into it, and that was that. That's happened to millions of people and I didn't think you did anything wrong. But what drew me in was the way you hung on afterwards, tried to explain away his indifference, then convince yourself you were cool with it, spun a scenario where he was actually still very interested but couldn't say it, and so on. You were spending so much mental energy when nothing was actually happening and that hit home for me.

It's good to recognize what you want. You don't want guys like him. If it happens again, remind yourself that you deserve someone who adores you and treats you well (and who inspires the same feelings in you). There's no need to settle for good enough or what little you can get.

 

I always appreciate your candor, Chimpan-z. I wouldn't say that's exactly how it went, but I get your gist. I guess I just took the fact that he made efforts to approach me and even be flirtatious after the fact, and that he agreed he wanted to get together again and never rejected me were indicators that he was still interested. I realize that if he was he would've made a point to reach out to me and see me again. However, when I see him again on the street or out, I'm sure he would probably approach me and still be flirtatious with me. I have no doubt he finds me attractive and appealing. He just doesn't want to date me. I can't be that blind or stupid to think that. I can't be spinning that scenario in my head. Then again, I guess he could just be being polite, right? Reading the other thread just brought this all to the surface today.

 

Genuine question - what's your relationship with your father like? What was he like while you were growing up?

 

Ok, well for some psychoanalysis...

 

 

I have a close relationship with my dad now, but it was very strained during my adolescence. I was always daddy's girl growing up as I was his only daughter, and he doted on me and spoiled me with love and attention and gifts. When I became a teenager, he turned away from me. He had his own personal issues including drug addiction and the divorce from my mom and really was not there when I needed him to be. It really hurt me. I was with long term boyfriends from 18-27 so I didn't 'miss' the protection and attention I wanted from my dad because my boyfriends provided that to me in their own ways, but they became controlling and verbally abusive. When my last relationship ended, my ex ended up stalking me for a couple years (literally). I wanted some hero to step in and protect me and stand up for me but my dad wouldn't do it. He told me that I'm a grown woman and I can deal with this myself. He's passive and doesn't believe in fighting or being confrontational, and tried to instead rationalize with my ex. In the long run, he ended up finally coming through and to the rescue, even making a threatening phone call to the ex and assuring me I'd never have to worry that he would ever bother me again, and if he did, my dad would be there to protect me. He told me recently that he should've stepped in at the start, and that I can call him at any hour or time and he will be there. As of the last couple years or so, we have a good relationship again. We talk weekly, by mostly his initiative, we see each other monthly, and he's someone I can always count on. In the past, I could not rely on that.

I never had the kind of dad or brother that many other women I know have and that I envy. I wanted a man who would beat down the door and show up with a bat to confront a man who was bothering or hurting his daughter or sister. My dad and brother aren't that way. However, I've learned the hard way that while that may be nice, I don't need it because I can do just fine by myself.

As it relates to men, I can see why I was drawn to the wrong types. Lately, I've been drawn to the overtly masculine 'heroes' and the bold brave ones who are chivalrous and strong and have a solid character. I'm holding out for that because that's what I want ultimately. I know men like that in my life, and have dated a few, and that really is what I want. When I come across someone like that now, I cling to it because it really is rare! Plus, I don't want to give up hope!

 

 

I just find I'm running away from the men who are interested and pursue me because it scares me off. The ones that can be kept at a safe distance (or who aren't available) seem to be more appealing. Another poster wrote earlier in this thread that it takes someone barreling through to my heart to knock down my walls, and it's so true! It will take the right person to do that. I also want to be more open and give other men in general a chance, which is why I got back on OKC and Tinder and am just chatting and getting a lot of messages and people who are interested. It's just me that freaks out and runs away before it even progresses. In the real world, I meet a lot of men, many of whom are interested and would like to date me, who ask for my number and contact me, but I'm not interested. I find myself running away from men nearly every time.

I guess there's a part of me that wants someone to come and 'pluck' me up and take me under his wing. I know that's sappy and I'm reverting back to childhood, but that's the kind of man I want. Even though I know I can handle it myself, I want someone who will protect me and stand up for me and be strong. I've built up some walls and am afraid to let them down, so I know it's going to take a man with a lot of patience and a heart of gold to get to it. I also have to be willing to open my heart.

 

I think we know in both cases that the guys are not interested. The only difference is that Natalia didn't sleep with the guy.

 

I found many similarities between my story and hers. It's the first time this has happened to me and I had a hard time grasping how it could happen that way when in my view it did seem genuine, despite how we met. I know not to take it personally, and I know that sex didn't make or break the end result so I can't be hard on myself. I just don't want this to happen again because it feels like a major setback in where I'm trying to go in the long term. What good I do take from it is that I didn't settle for less and made it clear to him I wasn't interested in anything just casual and 'no pressure' like he was hoping for. I could've done that, but I think at that time he gathered that I might be too much work and that I really liked him and he just wanted something 'easier'. I still don't think it's because he didn't like me or wasn't (sexually) interested. I only say that because when I've seen him recently that is clear (to me anyway).

Edited November 5, 2014 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I always appreciate your candor, Chimpan-z. I wouldn't say that's exactly how it went, but I get your gist. I guess I just took the fact that he made efforts to approach me and even be flirtatious after the fact, and that he agreed he wanted to get together again and never rejected me were indicators that he was still interested.

 

I think this is your issue---that you are unable to tell interest from a polite brush-off. It doesn't matter what he said; he didn't do anything. He didn't make any effort at all. Saying "sure, let's do something soon" and never getting back in touch is a rejection. Ignoring you for weeks is a rejection. your last interactions have been completely by chance, and both times he's failed to make any kind of contact afterwards. That's about as clear as a rejection can be.

 

It doesn't matter what he says or how totally into you your friends think he is. In the future you need to judge people's actions, not their words. An interested man calls you. An interested man takes you out. An interested man tells you how interested he is.

 

I realize that if he was he would've made a point to reach out to me and see me again. However, when I see him again on the street or out, I'm sure he would probably approach me and still be flirtatious with me. I have no doubt he finds me attractive and appealing. He just doesn't want to date me. I can't be that blind or stupid to think that. I can't be spinning that scenario in my head. Then again, I guess he could just be being polite, right? Reading the other thread just brought this all to the surface today.

He will always, always, ALWAYS flirt with you when he sees you, for two reasons: he's a flirtatious guy by nature, and it's evident that you absolutely eat it up. Think how flattering it must be for him to know that you hang on his every word and get so excited to see him. You probably make him feel like a rock star. And he doesn't have to feel guilty about leading you on, either, because he isn't. He's not texting, calling, or doing anything that he would do for even a friend (much less a romantic interest). He's just feeding his ego.

 

It may not be a matter of chasing unavailable men. It could just be that deep down you want a guy who's bold, sexy and able to sweep you off your feet. Other men in your life haven't done that, so you're naturally more attracted to the first one who does. That seems understandable. It's just that in this case the actions were empty gestures, not expressions of affection.