are OW out of the datin game forever unless they keep shtum?

[LadyRLD]

I understand what you are saying d'artez.

 

Here is my question to you. Dating an MM is like dating any other boyfriend. Why are you acting like I commited a crime or something? Why is that a bad thing? Why does that have to be broadcasted. It was my stupid mistake. It was my personal eye opener. Unless it's asked no one needs to know. I am not ashamed of it. As a matter of fact I have never brought up any boyfriends to any current dates. It's just something I don't do because for one I am over them completely and two they probably don't bring me up either. Why? Because there isn't a reason. It's gone. It's over. How can I move on if I keep bringing it up?

 

Why do you act like not telling someone about a past MM relationship is like not telling someone that you have AIDS? It's not serious believe me. It's just a guy that I don't even want to remember. I have the right to keep that to myself because it is not harming the other person by any means.

 

It was my private experience. One that was for me and for me only to experience. No one needs to know that unless I choose to tell them. Like when I lost my virginity again my private experience. That's like me going back to when I was born and telling every little incident of my child hood up until I was an adult.

 

Yes the past shaped who I am but it's not WHO I am now. Even the Bible tells us to let it go. Being spiritual I am letting it go.

 

Why keep opening up old wounds? I wasn't proud of my experience with the MM nor was I proud of who I lost my virginity to when I was younger. But should I have to tell all that to someone I am dating? I don;t want to know his past unless like I said before he has a disease or a baby's mama :0)

 

I just don't get it. I pretty much learn from the experience and never repeat again. I am clean I have no diseases and no children. That's all a new man needs to know. All he needs to know is who I am now and what I will be in the future :0) Case closed.

 

This is just how I feel for me, myself and I. Call me selfish but I can't speak for anyone else.

[LadyRLD]

I agree with everything Lynnered said as well. Well said Lynnered

[KissMyTiara]

Men are not mindreaders. And by not giving any information of your past you make it harder for him to understand your concerns and issues.

 

I completely agree with this.

 

Whatever has happened in the past, I think in order to develop a real solid relationship, the new guy has GOT to know about it.

 

Yup, see, for me, I have been cheated on and know how my MM cheats. Any new guy to come along in the future has gotta know this, know that I have resulting trust issues, so that he will know to do what he says he will, call when he says he will, be where he says he will, etc., in order to calm my fears and establish trust.

 

I was also hit once by an ex-bf. I never went back, and I actually make sure that new guys know this. They know never to raise their voice to me, never to roughly grab my arm, etc., or I'm out of there.

 

If you keep your past hidden, the new guy will never know what to do to comfort you and establish trust with you. He can't read your mind, and we all have different needs. A good new guy will want to know what those needs are, and he will willingly meet them. But he can't meet them if you keep them hidden!!!!

 

And for those of you who say "poo! it's none of his business who I was, only who I will be in the future" - now that's just silly talk. You seem more concerned about what the new guy will think of you because of your past, instead of what the new guy can do FOR you by knowing what has shaped you into who you are!

 

And besides, isn't the best part of being in love with someone just knowing that they know EVERYTHING about you, know you deep down into your soul, your fears, your weaknesses, your mistakes, your little idosyncracies, and yet they are still there beside you every morning when you wake up, because even in light of all the "bad" stuff, they still completely and utterly adore and love you? The whole you? By not telling then where you come from, you're not giving them an opportunity to love the real you! You can't have real, true, absolute love without really, truly knowing someone.

 

Are you afraid to really know yourself? Is that it?

[d'Arthez]

LadyRLD it is serious. To me at least. The difference with having a boyfriend is that you had a boyfriend who had an unsuspecting partner. The unsuspecting partner, and the possible children make a difference to me.

 

I don't know how you became involved in an affair. If you discovered that MM was married, at the time when the affair was already going full-fledged, I would not hold it against you. However, if you entered an affair fully knowing he was married, and not being lured into it by MM himself, but businesslike describe what you were planning to do with each other, yes, I would hold that against you.

 

I fully realize people make mistakes. But I'd rather have them admit to their "mistakes", than hiding their mistakes.

 

And for the record, I would not mind dating an ex-OW, who was literally caught in an affair, or was little to blame for her becoming involved in one. I would be very wary of dating an ex-OW who went into the affair with open eyes, and businesslike talked about it with her MM. But I would not date a woman who for one reason or the other would not dare divulge her past. Call that a quirk of mine, if you want to.

 

When I met a friend of mine, upon meeting we exchanged exactly one sentence each. I saw her for 2 hours, in a room, and we did not exchange any words with each other. It was some kind of meeting. With 15 people there. After 2 hours I had a frightful feeling of what had happened in her past. That feeling proved correct, she told me once our friendship had fully developed. I hope you can understand why non-divulgence of information can be very frustrating for some people like me.

 

If I give "penalty points" for an involvement in an affair, I also give "bonus points" for the lessons learned in an affair.

[LadyRLD]

If a man I am dating asks me then I will tell. But i am not. I repeat NOT going to blab about my past relationships. If you read my posts I said if he ask then I will tell. but until then he doesn't need to know. I am not hiding anything. My LIFE is my life. When I die everything I did comes along with me. Not some Stranger. It's not a sin to not tell something that's personal.

 

Like I said I didn't like who I was when I dated an MM. I am not the type of person to Date an MM now. I was before because 1. I had low self esteem and 2 I didin't care.

 

Now I do. So me being who I am now doesn't even know the girl I was when I dated my MM. I was just stupid. I never wanted to date an MM but I did. I didn't want to lose my virginity until I was married that didn't happen. What I am saying is I made mistakes. Unless the new person I know asks, then I will tell. Until then I want to keep it new and fresh.

 

d'arthez that's great that you will ask a woman that you are dating if she was ever involved with a married man or her whole life history and their are women on here who would love to tell you all about their first year in kindergarden. I am not that woman. So, personally if someone was asking all questions about my past and not questions about the here and now. I wouldn't want to date them. I am sorry. That's who I am. It's a waste of time and energy to talk about something that I CAN"T EVER change. I can't change it. I can change what I do now for the future though. Unless I still had feelings for my MM why should I bring him up. Why? I am not voluntarily giving information to anyone. Especially info that I myself don't even want to remember.

 

You have your opinions, I have mine. My thing is when I am done, i am done. My past is history to me. Me and me only is the one who lived through it and I am not hiding anything from myself. If someone wants to know than they have the right to ask me. I am a truthful person and I will tell. But I won't just bring it up out of the blue.

 

Nothing you say can change my mind. I am who I am regardless.

[KissMyTiara]

Lady -

 

Your posts read like this: "This is about ME, it's personal, it's none of his business, I want this, I want that, I want to keep it fresh and new, I am me, he is him, when I die I go alone, etc."

 

You obviously don't want to share yourself with someone. You don't want to let anyone in. You want to keep the wall up. You'll never really have a good healthy relationship if you continue on that way. He shouldn't have to ask, you should be willing to openly SHARE yourself with him - good, bad, ugly, past, present, and future. ALL of you.

 

If you can't, then please, don't even date men that are looking for a relationship.

[LadyRLD]

I do want to share myself. But look at it like this. Myself is not my past. I am ME Now!!! I am sharing who I am now. Why the past is what I don't get? Why?

 

 

But you know what. No one understands it. So I am not going to respond any longer. I am not mad or anything. I just understand who I am.

 

A man has to earn the right to know me. I am just that type of person. Yes it's about me because I love me. Unless someone can love me like I love myself then they will be kept at a distance. If they ask questions then I will let them know.

 

I am not going to go on a date talking about MM and all of my past relationships. How would that make my date feel? I wouldn't want him talking about his past girlfriends, why? I may want to know how his last relationship ended but that's about it. I would ask him. I don't want him to just bring that me

 

 

Knowing me is knowing what a kind hearted and beautiful person I am and how I treat my new guy friend. Not about men I've dated in the past. Talking about them is not sharing who I am. Talking about me is sharing info. on who I am.

 

I am not an OW any longer. So why should I have to keep acting like I am one.

 

But like I said I don't anyone to understand Me but me. Yes it is all about me because if I don't how to love me and who I am than who else will.

 

So kick me all you want. I am going to be about me until someone is worth me sharing "me" with. And me is who I am on the inside period.

[lynnered]

LadyRLD,

i thank you ,i feel you understand totally where I'm coming from.

 

KissMyTiara

"Yup, see, for me, I have been cheated on and know how my MM cheats. Any new guy to come along in the future has gotta know this, know that I have resulting trust issues, so that he will know to do what he says he will, call when he says he will, be where he says he will, etc., in order to calm my fears and establish trust."

thats you ,i agree to disagree with you

i don't need my fears calmed

to establish trust with me ?time will tell ,i don't need to rehash every hurt that happened in my life ,i don't need forgiveness or validation from someone who had nothing to do with that situation.

i do not drag baggage around ,even with XMM ,only issue we had his W!!

and we communicated ABOUT THE PRESENT &FUTURE

d'Arthez

I fully realize people make mistakes. But I'd rather have them admit to their "mistakes", than hiding their mistakes.

i understand if i cheated on you ,but if it wasn't you why do i have to explain to you if i didn't even know you ?

you expect someone to let you analyze them?

 

But I would not date a woman who for one reason or the other would not dare divulge her past.

I'm not saying all my past is a secret ,some things are private and i don't think i would want to be on your point system anyway!

 

That feeling proved correct, she told me once our friendship had fully developed. I hope you can understand why non-divulgence of information can be very frustrating for some people like me.

 

not to be mean but i think your a therapist or simular profession and maybe you feel the need to pry ,i personally do not care for somebody overly concerened with every detail of my life ,its nice to get to know someone ,ask questions ,but with your point system you sound like you take it to far!!

[LadyRLD]

Totally agree with you again. You think like me.

 

If I am dating someone they should be asking me questions like.

 

What kind of things do you like to do? How come you are single? Do you have any children? Are you with someone now?

 

But not specifically did you date a MM. But the point is they have to ask.

 

I am not going to go on a date and say "by the way I dated an MM, just wanted to let you know will you still date me?" What would be the point? Or "I just wanted to tell you I was an ex OW." I don't want to keep secrets from you. Oh but that's the only thing that is important for you to know. It's not who I am now but you still needed to know.

 

My date would be like WTF?

 

Most men I know don't want to know my past. They just want to know me for who I am now.

 

Unless you still have feelings for your MM or any past boyfriend and you feel you would go back to them then you should let your date know or not get involved with him in the first place.

[lynnered]

exactly ladyworld !!great minds think alike!!

 

you can't go forward in life until you let go of your past failures and heartaches,

how can i let go if i need to confess &beg for forgiveness or like someone said for my new man to comfort me ?

i dont need that ,

me is who i am now

in sitution with XMM i had issues

im not the same person

i have never killed ,stolen ,no diease ,no kids ,no XH ,i didnt go after XMM ,i loved him still do .

just because i choose to keep some parts of my past private does not mean i will not find happiness

i learned from my mistakes and again im not carrying around baggage that will affect the relationship.

 

 

there are 2 things you have to do in life

you "have to" die

and "you have to "live until you die .

you make up all the rest

[LadyRLD]

Lynnered!!!! I feel ya. Exactly what I would say again.

 

It would look sooo bad if I am whining about how a man cheated on me in the past (which one did) or how I was used by a cheating MM (which I was). I don't even like that about my past and I got over it.

 

So my take is, a man is going to do what he is going to do no matter what information you give him.

[d'Arthez]

Lynnered, I am a very intuitive man. Call me a freak of nature if you want. No I am not a therapist, nor do I even intend to do something in that direction.

 

It's a second nature of mine to intuitively analyze people, and no, I don't ask questions with the intent to analyze. I gave the example in an earlier response in this thread. The question I asked had nothing to do with analysing her. It was about drinks! Yes, I can be very perceptive.

 

And the "point system" is only because I do not date randomly. I have standards, and if you match them, I'd definetely will be pushing for a date. I don't expect everybody to be an emotional virgin or anything. Yes, women may have been cheated on, or have cheated themselves. Yes women may have been abused in the past.

I know every person has his or her flaws, and I allow for that, also in a partner. Yes, morality and integrity of character are a few of these things.

 

But I must know about these issues, before I can deal with them in a relationship. Consider the possibility you have been cheated on. But don't share that information with me. How can I know you might have certain sensitivities regarding male-female interaction? Occassionaly I have spent the best part of the night at a woman's place just talking. How can I know if you would have a problem with that?

I don't have the intent of entering a relationship believing you would not have a problem with that, to find out months later you suddenly are afraid I would fall for my female friend. You would have presented yourself as a different person, than you actually are. If you were open about these fears from the start I could have done my best to help you ease the fear that I might be cheating on you with my friend. And if I had to chose between giving up my relationship, or my friends, I would chose giving up my relationship.

 

By the way, if I only hear negatives in your past, I would be very wary. If you would hear only positives about mine, you'd be very wary too, would not you?

 

How can I know you are intellectually smart enough, if I don't ask and find out? How can I know if you have not wasted 20 years of your life, if I don't ask to find out? How can I know your views on morality if I don't ask?

 

LadyRLD:

If I am dating someone they should be asking me questions like.

 

What kind of things do you like to do? How come you are single? Do you have any children? Are you with someone now?

 

But not specifically did you date a MM. But the point is they have to ask

Withholding information is also a form of dishonesty.

You would not want your man (I saw this on another message board) to answer this question: "Do you cheat on me with another woman", to answer with "no", because he is cheating on you with two women, would you?

[LadyRLD]

D'arthez. You sound like a nice man. But very confusing. I don't agree that I am withholding information.

 

I am not withholding information. I am saying that if you ask me then I will tell you. How is that withholding information? So you are saying I am dishonest if I don't tell something that wasn' t asked of me or something I don't want to share voluntarily if it doesn't harm the other person. I thought being dishonest was lying to someone about something they asked you or something that you know will hurt them.

 

If dating someone who was married or cheated on me is that bad of a crime then forgive me I didn't know. I will type up a resume of my past boyfriends and relationships and he can read it. Then he can decide to date me or not. If I have to do that then on to the next man who is just happy that I am dating HIM.

 

The only time I am going to just volunteer info is if it's important or harmful. Like I have a disease, a child or I am married but seperated or something to that affect.

 

Not "oh by the way I dated a married man". How is that relevant to my life if he's not in it any longer? That part of my life will be shared if someone asked me. Anyone for that matter not just a date. You have to ask me. I am not going to lay all my cards on the table to some stranger.

[LadyRLD]

No I wouldn't want to know that. All I would want to know is that if he is in a relationship with me, is he cheating on me. I will only ask that if I suspect it.

 

The ONLY question I will ask of any man that I date is "Are you married or in a committed relationship now?" "Are you currently living with someone?" Do you have children?"

 

Then I will deal with that accordingly. That's all I need to know. What is his status as of now?

 

What does him cheating on someone in the past have to do with me. I am going to give him a clean shot just like he should give me. He's got a chance until he blows it by his actions. Not his WORDS.

 

He may or may not cheat on me. But I have to let him show that to ME.

 

Plus if I ask him that he won't tell me. Words are not important to me. I want to see how he treats ME.

 

That's like saying Once a cheater always a cheater. Which is not true all the time. But I have to find out the right way. Judging him by his past is not of my character because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me.

 

But how does that compare to being an ex OW. Are you saying once an OW always an OW?

[lynnered]

"How can I know you might have certain sensitivities regarding male-female interaction? Occassionaly I have spent the best part of the night at a woman's place just talking. How can I know if you would have a problem with that?

I don't have the intent of entering a relationship believing you would not have a problem with that, to find out months later you suddenly are afraid I would fall for my female friend. You would have presented yourself as a different person, than you actually are. If you were open about these fears from the start I could have done my best to help you ease the fear that I might be heating on you with my friend. And if I had to chose between giving up my relationship, or my friends, I would chose giving up my relationship."

d'Arthez

come on

i said i would not tell him i dated a MM ,

i didnt say i wouldnt tell him i dont feel comfortable you being to friendly with other woman or something of that nature ,he would know me as I AM NOW.

i dont feel comfortable discussing MM that relationship ,

if relationship becomes serious ,he will know what my views are on things that affect the relationship.

i closed that door ,i dont need to reopen it or even peak in it has nothing to do with my life when i start dating.

why would i bring an old relationship into the new?

"By the way, if I only hear negatives in your past, I would be very wary. If you would hear only positives about mine, you'd be very wary too, would not you?"

but you talk as if all people do is talk about old relationships ,thats not the case,i would rather talk about a persons dreams ,common interests,work education not just who they dated how that went obv not well your still single.

[d'Arthez]

If he asks about past relationships, you know he'd also imply these situations. If MM was not married but engaged, and he asked for MM, your technically correct answer would be "no."

It's the same as some men might say they have been monogamous all their lifes. But during a longer period of time, managed to sleep almost every night with a different girl. Technically they are monogamous, but I doubt that you would have this monogamous behavior in as a high regard, as a guy who remained faithful over that period of time to the same girl.

 

Dating someone who has cheated or been involved with a MM, is not a crime. Being someone who has been involved in an affair is not a crime. I never implied nor said anything like that in my posts.

 

But if you feel, that hiding your affair is best for you, do so. In a post much earlier, I have warned of the possible consequences it might have. Possible consequences that can be avoided.

 

He may or may not cheat on me. But I have to let him show that to ME.

 

The thing is you don't see that part of a relationship. Sorry for the joke.

And to a certain limited extent past behavior is a predictor of future behavior. You would have to ward of your fears of infidelity, regardless of the fact that he might have never cheated, or cheated on every girl he has been involved with. If you don't have any insecurities, great! However if you do have insecurities, you are not helping your position, by not making him understand your fears. But if you do want him to understand, he'll be expecting reciprocal behavior.

 

That's like saying Once a cheater always a cheater. Which is not true all the time. But I have to find out the right way. Judging him by his past is not of my character because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me.

 

I don't believe in the cheater saying. But when you write: "Judging him by his past is not of my character because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me", you are setting yourself lower standards.

 

Every person has things some absolute taboos. Paedophilia, for example. You would not want to become involved with someone who is a convicted paedophile, just because you did not specifically ask about paedophilia?

He might be an extreme Narcissist, or a convicted armsdealer. Because you didn't specifically ask about these issues, he has not even been dishonest with you. A narcissist is not naturally cured, when his previous gf / wife breaks up with him? No, sadly not.

 

Of course, I am fully aware that a narcissist will almost always deny being one. That is why someone's past can still be important to understand which people you should avoid. That's one reason why narcissists generally hate the thought that someone is interested in talking to their ex. Because the ex can reveal the narcissist completely.

[LadyRLD]

OK D'arthez and that's cool for you. I don't judge people because it's not a cool thing to me. But to each his own.

 

I am not the person I was in the A. So if someone judges me by my past then that's their loss. I used to cheat in some of my relationships when I was younger but I wouldn't do that now. So if judging me by what I did before is relevant then like I said I am moving on to the next man who will like the Lady I am now.

[LadyRLD]

If someone has a disease I would want to know.

What does that I have to with dating an MM. You compare dating an MM with extreme personality disorders and serious diseases. A narcissist doesn't even know he's a narcissist so how would he tell me? By his actions.

 

If he does know and did something about it then why should he have to reveal that to me? If that's a closed door for him then why should I have to bring it out of him. As long as he's not a narcissist now and treats me great than I don't care about before.

 

What I am telling you is unless they are doing these things as of now then I don't want to know what they did in their past.

 

The only way to know someone is by how they treat you.

 

That who I am.

 

You do things your way if you want to judge someone by their past then by all means go ahead. You know what you want and I know what I want.

 

But instead of pointing a finger I want to give someone a fair shot by seeing how they treat ME. Anyone could change. I am a prime example of that so I know.

[LadyRLD]

D'Arthez quoted:

 

"How can I know you are intellectually smart enough, if I don't ask and find out? How can I know if you have not wasted 20 years of your life, if I don't ask to find out? How can I know your views on morality if I don't ask?"

 

First of all her wasting 20 years of life has nothing to do with you. You are not God. And you are not her. You are someone who is dating her now. She could have cleaned up and stopped wasting her life "now".

 

Your questions can be answered by the way she treats you now. But look at this you are asking questions. My point exactly. If you ask then I will tell. Which I said for the 100th time. Ask questions and you will learn. Don't ask and I won't even know to tell you anything. Especially if it's not an endangerment to your health or harmful to your life in anyway.

 

Ok I am done. I think I took enough space on this post. Sorry Newby.

[lynnered]

im sorry too ,newby !!!

dont be mad!!

i get into one these about once a week lately!!!

but i take it as learning and exchanging differnt view points .

 

 

 

 

the greatest understanding you can have,

if you want to be enlightened,

is that no one will ever understand you.

[d'Arthez]

The thing is LadyRLD, that a narcissist does not show his true colors in the dating stages, but will be very wary of anybody who asks of his past, or asks, more specifically to talk with his ex-gf (the most recent one). Once he has you, then his true colors will appear.

 

I do judge for a potential date, but not on past history alone. Also on what a woman has learnt from the past. It might be, because of my preference in women. I thought I had explained that in an earlier post.

 

First of all her wasting 20 years of life has nothing to do with you. You are not G-d. And you are not her. You are someone who is dating her now. She could have cleaned up and stopped wasting her life "now".

20 years of her life have to do with me, if we are to work towards a relationship. I believe that life is short, and that we should not waste our time too much. I'd rather have she spent the time constructively, with for example literature and arts, et cetera, than with partying. Why? Because I'd rather prefer to discuss "The Brothers Karamazov" with her, than lecture her on it. I am interested in a female equal to date and have a relationship with, and not in someone who has total opposites of interests, which would make us barely able to understand each other. If she "wasted" her time constructively for herself, that is ok with me. She might have had the desire to travel around the world, study some exotic language, or whatever. As long as she tried to improve yourself as a human being one way or the other.

 

History, and what you have learned, are intimately connected. You can't say something like: "I am now xx years old, and always have been that wise." Of course not, so you would have to explain where all your wisdom came from. If I date someone, I will have to explain my wisdom and lack thereof.

 

Without understanding of the past of the person you are dating, it will be difficult to make accurate calls on the strenth of character, integrity et cetera. These are not static properties; so no "eternal damnation", for being involved with a MM, nor having been an alcoholic, or whatever.

 

I am not interested in a woman to become her confessor. So I prefer to keep my questions few, but I have to make CIA-like inquiries to get information of someone about him or her, I'd move on. I think most men will.

 

If you refuse to divulge on your past, that is your choice, and I certainly understand why you make that one.

 

Lynnered:

the greatest understanding you can have,

if you want to be enlightened,

is that no one will ever understand you.

If you are enlightened, you know why no one understands you.

[lynnered]

If you are enlightened, you know why no one understands you.

 

cause youre a loserrrrrrrrrrr just kidding !!

i know why you dont understand me ,

i understand you

but understanding does not necessarily mean agreement.

stop

we were trying to stop d'Arthez!!

but you think you have to have the last word

[SummerRae]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

The thing is LadyRLD, that a narcissist does not show his true colors in the dating stages, but will be very wary of anybody who asks of his past, or asks, more specifically to talk with his ex-gf (the most recent one). Once he has you, then his true colors will appear.

 

I do judge for a potential date, but not on past history alone. Also on what a woman has learnt from the past. It might be, because of my preference in women. I thought I had explained that in an earlier post.

 

 

20 years of her life have to do with me, if we are to work towards a relationship. I believe that life is short, and that we should not waste our time too much. I'd rather have she spent the time constructively, with for example literature and arts, et cetera, than with partying. Why? Because I'd rather prefer to discuss "The Brothers Karamazov" with her, than lecture her on it. I am interested in a female equal to date and have a relationship with, and not in someone who has total opposites of interests, which would make us barely able to understand each other. If she "wasted" her time constructively for herself, that is ok with me. She might have had the desire to travel around the world, study some exotic language, or whatever. As long as she tried to improve yourself as a human being one way or the other.

 

History, and what you have learned, are intimately connected. You can't say something like: "I am now xx years old, and always have been that wise." Of course not, so you would have to explain where all your wisdom came from. If I date someone, I will have to explain my wisdom and lack thereof.

 

Without understanding of the past of the person you are dating, it will be difficult to make accurate calls on the strenth of character, integrity et cetera. These are not static properties; so no "eternal damnation", for being involved with a MM, nor having been an alcoholic, or whatever.

 

I am not interested in a woman to become her confessor. So I prefer to keep my questions few, but I have to make CIA-like inquiries to get information of someone about him or her, I'd move on. I think most men will.

 

If you refuse to divulge on your past, that is your choice, and I certainly understand why you make that one.

 

Lynnered:

 

If you are enlightened, you know why no one understands you.

 

d'Arthez, you're brilliant, we should talk (philosophy, wisdom, etc, of course...). For me, there is nothing better than someone who wants to not only make their own lives better, but the lives of those around them. Than the person who sees their lives as one big canvas with which to paint broad strokes but just needs help picking out colours. And now I'm getting all philosophical, and sorry, I digress.

 

Lynnered & Lady, I see where you are both coming from and can definitely say that there are moments in my life that I would rather not tell a soul. But yet, at the same time, I remember the whole reason I fell in love with the man whom I didn't know was married...... It was something like this:

 

 

We spent hours and hours talking, and the conversation never ceased. Even the silence was comfortable. He drew everything out of me because naturally, organically, I wanted to tell him ALL. He opened layers I had never shared with anyone because I had never b4 related on that level. The trust was there. And, therefore, so was the love.

 

 

The elements were all lined up and for me, telling him of my past (not graphic, gorry details) but outlines of my past relationships, my wounds, my scars, my triumphs. And he carefully took his hand and traced over them with a touch that made me feel---no made me KNOW---that with him the past only mattered in that it made me who I was that day. And yes, that was freeing. It was LOVE. Because I was accepted fully for who I was, and I completely accepted him too.

 

 

Lynnered & Lady, I agree about keeping quiet in that not everyone needs to know everything. There is a time and a space. The elements have to line up, so to speak. But there is nothing like the true intimacy of sharing the ole battle wounds. And if a man wants to know, and I mean really wants to know, and you want to share with him, then that is the TIME.

 

 

"When men show that willingness, then is the time to reveal things; not just because, but because another soul has asked." ---Clarissa Pinkola Estes (from Women Who Run With the Wolves)

[newby]

phew! lots has been going on whilst i've been away!

okay this wasnt the question i was posing as such but i like it and i like where it has gone,

lynnered and lady no need to apologise this is interesting.

lynnered and lady i am with you here, although kmt you have some interesting points about walls and not allowing people in, i think it CAN be an indication of this.

however, if you are a person who is spiritual and believes in reincarnation etc then you will believe that we are LEARNING by not only this life but every life we have ever lived through, you are only ever the person you are now.

AND even if you are not spiritual, d'Arthez with your way of thinking i should imagine you hold tightly to the view that we are shaped completely through experience and in that case that the childhood especially the years 0-7 are of the most importance. in fact the years between 0-2 are even more important. would somebody need to tell you exactly what happened in these years for you to feel that you knew them enough to make a decision on whether you would date them or not?

there is a difference too d'Arthez with being dishonest and not spilling every little detail of your life to somebody. i would find somebody that did such a thing incredibly boring i have to say!

d'Arthez if you wanted to have a conversation with a woman about "The Brothers Karamazov" then surely the best way to know whether she would be up for such a thing is to actually have that conversation with her, not have a conversation with her about having the conversation.

d'Arthez i understand that you are well educated but there is something to be said for encompassing a broadminded understanding too.

d'Arthez, the only way somebody could waste twenty years would be to live through them without evolving one bit, and yet you expect that people do not evolve thats why you take them on their past and not their present.

[Nubianangel]

I was at one time the OW and yes, I did confide in a potential mate. He wasn't happy about it but his concerns were more of 'why I didn't think more of myself'; 'why didn't I think I deserved more' and 'what did I expect to get out of it'. I tried my best to explain my way of thinking and feeling at the time but it didn't make sense to even myself.

 

However, it didn't change his opinion of me. He still thought of me as a good person and wonderful woman (his words). Funny and sad thing is, I suspected that afterwards he felt he had to rescue me from myself. He put way too much emphasis on trying to make me see my worth. Don't get me wrong, I appreciated that but I had to do it for myself. Sadly, it didn't work out for us because I'm still in the process of learning to love myself before loving another (with the exception of my son ).