Can't believe it

[jellybean89]

Hope,

 

My advice would be to forget every knowing him. He is a jerk. I would not pursue the money, it is just linking you to him for longer. You know it will be more drama for you and right now you need to re-heal from this latest interaction. As hard as it is, you have to turn your mind off to what he said to you. No matter what you reply with him, he is one of those people that will never take accountability -- there are so many of them and you can't get them to own their decisions and you will drive yourself nutso by thinking you will get anywhere with him.

 

Take time to heal...really, really, really heal. I think you have bandaid'd your healing and now it is time to truly see him for the a s s that he is and be grateful that you can rid him from your life once and for all.

 

And Hope, FORGIVE yourself. FORGIVE yourself for the past. ALL of it.

[Hope Shimmers]

Thank you to all. I didn't get any work done today from thinking about his and how to deal with it.

 

2sunny is correct. The limit for small claims court in my state is $2000 which is not even a small fraction of what he owes me. If it was that little I would easily forget it. But we are talking a lot of money.

 

I realized for the first time during this 'episode' what he does. His message was that "if I wanted to inflict further financial stress on his family who is suffering, then there is nothing he can do about that".

 

This is pulling out the victim card. Which he has ALWAYS done. With him it's about twisting things around so that I am the problem and he is the victim. If someone dislikes him (ALL of the people who know both of us) then it's MY fault because I "lied to them" about him.

 

I thought a lot about the same thing you said jellybean and why I am doing this. It is VERY hard to disconnect it with the emotions from the A. Yet I don't feel I can walk away because he is again taking advantage. I think he needs to know he cannot do that.

 

I have an appointment with an attorney tomorrow. I will decide after that what approach to take.

[Hope Shimmers]

Oh, jeez, Hope. This guy is awful.

 

Have you ever heard of the Ingrid Bergman movie "Gaslight"? That's almost what it reminds me of. He's doing something that is absolutely designed to garner a certain response from you, and then, when you respond in that perfectly logical way, he essentially calls you crazy for it. I think a lot of us have fallen into traps like that, and have let men convince us that, in fact, we are crazy, or that we're the ones who are bad, or wrong, in our actions. Stay strong! It's not you, and you have a whole family of us on here ready to remind you every day how important you are as a person - and that you absolutely aren't crazy.

 

If you don't know what gaslighting is, check out a great description of the phenomenon and movie at Huffington Post.

 

Thanks MissTakes. I have known for awhile what this is because it's how I got out of the affair itself and he is a master at it.

[2sunny]

Thank you to all. I didn't get any work done today from thinking about his and how to deal with it.

 

2sunny is correct. The limit for small claims court in my state is $2000 which is not even a small fraction of what he owes me. If it was that little I would easily forget it. But we are talking a lot of money.

 

I realized for the first time during this 'episode' what he does. His message was that "if I wanted to inflict further financial stress on his family who is suffering, then there is nothing he can do about that".

 

This is pulling out the victim card. Which he has ALWAYS done. With him it's about twisting things around so that I am the problem and he is the victim. If someone dislikes him (ALL of the people who know both of us) then it's MY fault because I "lied to them" about him.

 

I thought a lot about the same thing you said jellybean and why I am doing this. It is VERY hard to disconnect it with the emotions from the A. Yet I don't feel I can walk away because he is again taking advantage. I think he needs to know he cannot do that.

 

I have an appointment with an attorney tomorrow. I will decide after that what approach to take.

 

I'm so glad you are going to get guidance on how to proceed.

 

Maybe the attorney would be willing to take a percentage of what he ends up paying?

 

Some of your money is better than no money.

 

And it looks like he has no intentions of paying it back.

 

If you get a court order - it's possible to have his wages garnished each pay period.

 

I'm sure (since he's such a perfect narcissist) that he's always going to say he doesn't have the money - but that doesn't need to be your problem. He should have never taken the money if he didn't have a plan to repay you! And if he gives you grief, then file a restraining order.

 

The principle is that he had your money with no intention of repaying it. If he doesn't have it now he can certainly figure out how to make payments moving forward.

 

If you have the opportunity to get the court to show he owes it don't get soft when it comes time to make sure they garnish his wages. That ensures you that it gets paid first.

 

 

I wouldn't be taking such a hard nosed approach if he hadn't been such a meany to you - but what he did is not right.

[Hope Shimmers]

I'm so glad you are going to get guidance on how to proceed.

 

Maybe the attorney would be willing to take a percentage of what he ends up paying?

 

Some of your money is better than no money.

 

And it looks like he has no intentions of paying it back.

 

If you get a court order - it's possible to have his wages garnished each pay period.

 

I'm sure (since he's such a perfect narcissist) that he's always going to say he doesn't have the money - but that doesn't need to be your problem. He should have never taken the money if he didn't have a plan to repay you! And if he gives you grief, then file a restraining order.

 

The principle is that he had your money with no intention of repaying it. If he doesn't have it now he can certainly figure out how to make payments moving forward.

 

If you have the opportunity to get the court to show he owes it don't get soft when it comes time to make sure they garnish his wages. That ensures you that it gets paid first.

 

 

I wouldn't be taking such a hard nosed approach if he hadn't been such a meany to you - but what he did is not right.

 

Thanks 2sunny.

 

He will be getting the first letter sent by certified mail tomorrow. It is addressed to both him and his wife. He works Saturdays (or at least he did) so she will likely get it. Should be interesting to see what happens with that. He probably already has constructed another lie to cover it though.

 

If he does not respond to the letter and make a payment then it goes to court.

[bentleychic]

I don't remember details, but did you guys have a written agreement of sorts so it's not just he said/she said?

 

I really wish you the best. No matter what he is affair wise, there is absolutely NO reason for taking anyone or that much money, whether you are in a relationship with them or not. I'm firmly on the bench of not even letting MM pay or a meal for me so stuff like this absolutely makes me scratch my head.

[gettingstronger]

WOW Hope- good for you- I can not believe you are going to pursue the money issue, I always thought you should but did not want to beat you over the head about it- I am glad you are taking back your power and making sure he takes some responsibility for his actions towards you- stay strong-

[Poppy47]

If this man weren't so pathetic, he would be hilarious.

 

After all that happened to you, he as the gall to call you immoral.? Really and truly what a d........... He's just a fake hiding behind religion so that he won't have to admit his weaknesses to the world or himself.

 

I would go as hard as I could at him for your money. He took it and he owes you that. For the pain and grief he caused you, he can never repay you.

 

Poppy

[Hope Shimmers]

Thanks to all of you for the support. He is the biggest piece of crap I have ever encountered.

 

He has communicated to me a couple of times that I am a "vindictive b*tch" for pursuing this. From the wording I get the feeling that his emails are a build and preparation so that he can show his wife that he is the victim here.

 

He says I am vindictive and abusive for doing this. I asked for concrete justification of my alleged "abuse". I let him know that DNA testing is always available to him (or as ordered by me) for his daughter, if he really wants to discuss abuse and neglect.

 

Just yuck. Understatement. The best thing though is that I feel NOTHING except contempt.

[Hope Shimmers]

I don't remember details, but did you guys have a written agreement of sorts so it's not just he said/she said?

 

I really wish you the best. No matter what he is affair wise, there is absolutely NO reason for taking anyone or that much money, whether you are in a relationship with them or not. I'm firmly on the bench of not even letting MM pay or a meal for me so stuff like this absolutely makes me scratch my head.

 

I didn't set up a payment plan or contract (stupid) but there are email confirmations so it's much more than just a verbal contract. My attorney thinks there will be no problem. Thank you....

[herself]

These days you can book a really nice all inclusive vaca for a grand...

I think u should take the first payment and book a nice trip.

[herself]

Also respond to every email of his with a bible scripture. Nothing else.

[2sunny]

Also respond to every email of his with a bible scripture. Nothing else.

 

It irritates me when bible verses are quoted by a person who's actions don't match what their belief system signifies.

 

He's got to quote a book because he knows his actions (evidence) shows he's not "acting like a") Christian.

 

If he believed in his faith he wouldn't have the need to call you names - but I think he actually believes those names deserve to be pointed at himself - he would never admit it though. It's a defense mechanism.

[CarrieT]

I'm curious why you are communicating with him at all at this point...

 

It seems that once you have turned this over to an attorney (and have some past emails to document the debt), you are better off maintaining radio silence.

 

The more he sends emails that aren't answered, the better your leverage will be in court.

[Hope Shimmers]

I ignored his last many e-mails and have not heard from him in a few days. The letter demanding repayment from my attorney was received by him this past weekend (I can tell he received it). Now it is just a process of documenting his default on paper so that I can sue.

 

Ugggh.

[endingpage]

You go girl.

 

I know you probably hate having any communication with him, but his selfishness and self entitlement really grind my gears and I'm glad to see you take legal action against him. You were generous enough to lend him money back then and after defaulting on that for many years on top of treating you like crap, now he has the gall to call you a vindictive b!tch? Hell no. Gloves come off. I would punch him out for you, too.

 

I hope you also take that money and go on a nice vacation :-). I just got back from Greece; it is really lovely this time of year.

[2sunny]

I ignored his last many e-mails and have not heard from him in a few days. The letter demanding repayment from my attorney was received by him this past weekend (I can tell he received it). Now it is just a process of documenting his default on paper so that I can sue.

 

Ugggh.

 

I'm glad you're taking control of the crappy situation he's created by not paying you back!

 

 

Can you block his email address and phone number? If not, simply tell him to only speak to your attorney.

 

If he persists - get a restraining order against him. It's good to have it public knowledge through the courts. He may have done this to others. Or he may do it to another in the future.

 

 

Bottom line is he owes you and you deserve to get paid. ANY other crap he wants to spew he can keep it to himself.

 

It's good to see you fighting for what's right! I hope you won't allow him to treat you unkindly any further.

[Toodaloo]

The bible actually also states that a good Christian should be neither a lender nor a borrower be...

 

This man has treated you very badly.

 

You are not a bad person at all. Ignore his emails and just pass them on to your legal advisory. Let them deal with it.

 

Keep strong, keep away and lastly don't forget that you are doing wonderfully.

[beach]

Any new info on him paying you back?

 

Has he shown this week what he plans to do about it?

[Hope Shimmers]

Thanks everyone. I do need a vacation. Greece it is!

 

I can't block my email or phone because they are listed online as part of my business.

 

I did think about that "neither a lender or borrower be" bible phrase throughout this. Just more hypocrisy.

 

Any new info on him paying you back?

 

Has he shown this week what he plans to do about it?

 

I checked in with my attorney today and he (ex-MM) has made inquiries about some of the language that would be in the proposed payback plan (mostly having to do with keeping others from finding out). I hope that is a good thing!

[beach]

Maybe that indicates he's trying to figure out how to pay it back?

 

I do hope so!

 

 

I wonder who he's so worried about finding out? Do you think his wife knows yet?

[Hope Shimmers]

Maybe that indicates he's trying to figure out how to pay it back?

 

I do hope so!

 

 

I wonder who he's so worried about finding out? Do you think his wife knows yet?

 

No WAY does his wife know. I'm sure that's what he's worried about.

[beach]

No WAY does his wife know. I'm sure that's what he's worried about.

 

Ohhhhh, that makes sense! He's going to try to find a way to pay it without her knowing. Man he's got a lot of stuff he's trying to cover up.

[Hope Shimmers]

I have hesitated whether or not to update this thread. Finally decided I might as well.

 

Ex-MM attempted suicide about 2 weeks ago. He did not succeed, but came very close. It apparently was touch and go for several days as to whether he would succeed.

 

I was EXTREMELY and horribly upset those first days; I have never felt so much guilt. To make it worse, the guy who I had been dating (and who knew all of this back-story) told me "what did I expect, suing an unstable man?" So I no longer talk to him or date him because of that accusatory statement (coming from a man whose first wife committed suicide).

 

I do know that my attempting legal action threw ex-MM over the limit of what he could tolerate. He had made one payment to me regarding the loan. At this point I don't blame myself but I wish I would not have pushed it. I should have just let it go.

[Nattie]

Hope, you are too sweet for your own good. NONE of this is your fault. Your exMM obviously has some mental stability issues. You don't take money and refuse to pay it back. You seem like a reasonable person, if he had been making (even tiny) payments on a regular basis, you wouldn't have had to take action. Do I want to pay my credit card bill every month? No... I sure don't, but I don't attempt suicide over it. He has shafted you more than enough in the past, he needed to be held responsible this time. Please try not to let this consume you, you did the right thing.