After the 180 - how to handle the happy idiot?

[Striver]

If she ever does try to come back make sure you don't make the same mistake I see so many male BS make and instaforgive her without making her work back into the marriage.

 

What a difference a month makes. Unlikely we will ever be back together.

 

She filed for D, is still sleeping on the couch but wants to move across town soon. Got upset when I rejected her crap custody placement plan, so wants out of the house now since the "custody fight" will take a year, she says.

 

So she wants to sell the house, now. I told her I need to ask the lawyer if we can do that. She meanwhile "gets the house ready" for sale before I've even decided.

 

I'm done with the manipulation and controlling. Good luck to some other guy.

[travelbug1996]

Eh, some of us need to be MORE in touch with our emotions and anger. I've more than earned every bit of anger I feel at WW and then some.

 

 

What's the use of having the anger if by your own admission you don't express it effectively. Work on your assertiveness. Also if you marry another passive person it could potentially be worse. Two people afraid of confrontation walkng around with bottle up emotions.

 

I married a passive person and they are very poor communicators. Never again.

[No Limit]

What a difference a month makes. Unlikely we will ever be back together.

 

At least you've woken up. 1 month doesn't compare to years of wrong reconciliation like others had to waste.

[DivorcedDad123]

"So she wants to sell the house, now. I told her I need to ask the lawyer if we can do that. She meanwhile "gets the house ready" for sale before I've even decided"

 

Don't do this! You have kids, and their stabilty is important in the courts eyes. She's trying to manipulate you into selling,so that when she moves, she can move the kids with her, since there's no "marital home" to anchor them to.

When she moves, you keep the kids with you! They had no part in this and there's no reason that they should have to give up their familiar surroundings.

 

Are the kids in school? If so, it's even more important for you to stay in the home, since that home is in the residential school district that they're attending.

 

Don't fall for this setup and make no mistake,that's what she's doing. She's being coached by all of her divorce' friends. You need an attorney today!

[HereNorThere]

OP, I suggest you read "The Human Magnet Syndrome" by Ross Rosenberg. It really dives deep into the relationship between the narcissist and codependent. While you'll never change your wife, you can learn how to pick better relationships in the future. The first step is accepting that you'll never have a successful relationship with someone who has her personality type.

 

Personally, I think giving, passive people make the best partners. There are some people out there who absolutely cannot stand them and use them as pawns in their own game of self-absorption. I think that deep down it reminds them that they aren't truly altruistic people and hurts their fragile ego. Instead of choosing to learn from them, they seek to destroy the person through emotional manipulation and other selfish tactics.

 

How do you win a game with a narcissist? DON'T PLAY

[Striver]

Don't do this! You have kids, and their stabilty is important in the courts eyes. She's trying to manipulate you into selling,so that when she moves, she can move the kids with her, since there's no "marital home" to anchor them to.

When she moves, you keep the kids with you! They had no part in this and there's no reason that they should have to give up their familiar surroundings.

 

Are the kids in school? If so, it's even more important for you to stay in the home, since that home is in the residential school district that they're attending.

 

Don't fall for this setup and make no mistake,that's what she's doing. She's being coached by all of her divorce' friends. You need an attorney today!

 

The kids are in school. I do have an attorney and am running pretty much everything past him.

 

I'm aware she's being manipulative. I haven't even finished my budget yet to see how long the home could be kept. She's been late in coming up with some of the material I need for that.

 

There's no reason to switch schools in mid-year since everyone will be in the same city anyway. Keeping the home until spring/summer would be easier.

 

With custody up in the air, either of us moving out gets dicey. That's why she's stayed on the couch. I will check if it's possible that we trade off a furnished room for a while if she can't stand the couch any longer. I'll run that by the attorney as I do everything now.

[Striver]

OP, I suggest you read "The Human Magnet Syndrome" by Ross Rosenberg. It really dives deep into the relationship between the narcissist and codependent. While you'll never change your wife, you can learn how to pick better relationships in the future. The first step is accepting that you'll never have a successful relationship with someone who has her personality type.

 

Personally, I think giving, passive people make the best partners. There are some people out there who absolutely cannot stand them and use them as pawns in their own game of self-absorption. I think that deep down it reminds them that they aren't truly altruistic people and hurts their fragile ego. Instead of choosing to learn from them, they seek to destroy the person through emotional manipulation and other selfish tactics.

 

How do you win a game with a narcissist? DON'T PLAY

 

Thanks for the suggestion. She has made a couple of comments about wanting someone who fought back more. Most people I talk to about this are fairly conflict-avoidant, but she seems to be on the other side.

 

She often is dominant with other members of her family as well, including her parents. So I'm not alone in the type of relationship I have with her.

[Striver]

What's the use of having the anger if by your own admission you don't express it effectively. Work on your assertiveness. Also if you marry another passive person it could potentially be worse. Two people afraid of confrontation walkng around with bottle up emotions.

 

I married a passive person and they are very poor communicators. Never again.

 

I am a quiet introvert and W is not. But W is not a particularly good communicator. She tells me what I need to know about half the time.

 

I tend to be content with the status quo, so I don't always have that much to say. Sometimes people are just quiet. If they aren't harboring resentments two quiet, passive people can make a perfectly fine couple.

 

W is not quiet, but she is narcissistic and likely doesn't understand it or want to work on it. When she's unhappy with something, she consistently projects anger/energy outward whether she is the cause of the problem or the other person. But her resentments never really get cleared that way.

 

I felt fortunate to be with W because she was assertive and I wasn't. So I felt she would be free to assert herself and I'd be willing to step back and stay out of the way. Didn't realize the problems in our relationship, that when I did assert myself she wouldn't listen, would be defiant, or would give some flip response.

 

I made my mistakes in the marriage, but everyone does that. W is obsessed with projects. She changed everything in the house to suit her, then got bored, so bye bye house and marriage, and everyone else can just deal with it. A toxic attitude for a marriage with children.

 

I likely need to work on my assertiveness, but that wasn't going to solve the issues with W. Someone else mentioned that W probably wants someone more assertive, but she still wants to win all of the arguments. I can't fix that.

[No Limit]

From your description your wife needs a slave. Not even an obdedient dog anymore, a slave. No more, no less. It's her character that makes her seem assertive, but in the end her selfishness is paired with the stubbornness of an angry child who didn't get its way.

 

I think your kids will be happy to visit you as often as time allows.

[Striver]

From your description your wife needs a slave. Not even an obdedient dog anymore, a slave. No more, no less. It's her character that makes her seem assertive, but in the end her selfishness is paired with the stubbornness of an angry child who didn't get its way.

 

I think your kids will be happy to visit you as often as time allows.

 

I think the kids will be happy with me, so long as I get enough time with them. Fortunately the law is better there than it used to be, though my wife is trying to force the Disneyland dad business.

 

I work hard at my job, but I don't need endless house projects. After renting for a while, I will probably buy a modest house with a backyard so my kids can play. Maybe a trampoline or something new. Eventually a wife or girlfriend who will help me some with the house (not excessive) and wants to travel with me a bit.

 

The wife had endless projects to customize the house exactly the way she wanted, the house she is now ditching. We'll never get our money back, and the kids will be disrupted from their comfortable surroundings for no real good reason.

 

So after she says she wants to sell the house NOW (a week ago, because she can't stand to stay here because the "custody fight" will take a year and that's too long to sleep on the couch) I say I need to talk to the lawyer. I also need to finish a financial disclosure statement, and she only got me all of the information for that last Friday. So I have been finishing that. Plus since I have a regular job that actually pays the bills, and that has been busy, I've been busy.

 

The lawyer was out until Wednesday, and I got my financial disclosure done today. It turns out the house could be sold, but it's not that easy. If we don't have all of the finances settled, the money just goes into a lawyer's trust and she can't roll it over into a new house. So we have no house and we both have to rent. Now I have some followup questions for the lawyer, so I'm not quite ready to offer the questionable possibility of selling the house.

 

Meanwhile, she is scurrying around getting the house ready, assuming I'll agree or trying to manipulate me. I am feeling good that the lawyer is getting back to me, moving things along as best I can in this process, thinking about the kids a lot. Tonight I see she has some papers ready for me to sign, so she can list the house as soon as I come to "my" decision.

 

Nothing is ever fast enough for this woman.

 

Even if I agree there she will just put the pressure on elsewhere to resolve the finances so she can get the money and buy a new house. So I can't win. Like I said, my thoughts are more with the kids and what will happen with them, the new school year that is just starting. Not the wife's endless projects that never satisfy her anyway.

[merrmeade]

I think the kids will be happy with me, so long as I get enough time with them. Fortunately the law is better there than it used to be, though my wife is trying to force the Disneyland dad business.

 

I work hard at my job, but I don't need endless house projects. After renting for a while, I will probably buy a modest house with a backyard so my kids can play. Maybe a trampoline or something new. Eventually a wife or girlfriend who will help me some with the house (not excessive) and wants to travel with me a bit.

 

The wife had endless projects to customize the house exactly the way she wanted, the house she is now ditching. We'll never get our money back, and the kids will be disrupted from their comfortable surroundings for no real good reason.

 

So after she says she wants to sell the house NOW (a week ago, because she can't stand to stay here because the "custody fight" will take a year and that's too long to sleep on the couch) I say I need to talk to the lawyer. I also need to finish a financial disclosure statement, and she only got me all of the information for that last Friday. So I have been finishing that. Plus since I have a regular job that actually pays the bills, and that has been busy, I've been busy.

 

The lawyer was out until Wednesday, and I got my financial disclosure done today. It turns out the house could be sold, but it's not that easy. If we don't have all of the finances settled, the money just goes into a lawyer's trust and she can't roll it over into a new house. So we have no house and we both have to rent. Now I have some followup questions for the lawyer, so I'm not quite ready to offer the questionable possibility of selling the house.

 

Meanwhile, she is scurrying around getting the house ready, assuming I'll agree or trying to manipulate me. I am feeling good that the lawyer is getting back to me, moving things along as best I can in this process, thinking about the kids a lot. Tonight I see she has some papers ready for me to sign, so she can list the house as soon as I come to "my" decision.

 

Nothing is ever fast enough for this woman.

 

Even if I agree there she will just put the pressure on elsewhere to resolve the finances so she can get the money and buy a new house. So I can't win. Like I said, my thoughts are more with the kids and what will happen with them, the new school year that is just starting. Not the wife's endless projects that never satisfy her anyway.

 

So I don't understand, after reading all posts in the thread, what your position is regarding the house. You've said that she wants to sell it asap, and that she had many projects for the house. You've said you'll get another place with a yard for the kids. But you haven't said why and what your thinking and feeling is about the house. I mean, she can't do it unless you agree to it, right?

 

Also, a couple of posters pointed out to you that keeping the kids in the same schools is a good reason to keep the house. I would think that trying to make a family life for them in the house would also be good for them rather than making them adjust to everything new. That is a huge factor - their stability - and it isn't clear how either you or your wife is considering that in your plans and lack of plans regarding the house.

 

It sounds like you're letting her make this decision just like all the others. Isn't it time you took a stand about something?

 

I'm very sorry this is happening to you. It sounds like a nightmare, having her in the same house when she's being such a witch. I can't imagine. So sounds like you're doing very well, considering the circumstances.

 

From reading what she's said and done, she seems incredibly selfish, willful, and uncompassionate - well, like they said, narcissistic. So the only thing that will work for you and will ultimately make her nuts, really is following the 180. You need to really and truly not care - for yourself and to make decisions for your children.

 

And if you decide it's best to keep the house for the kids, then don't bother arguing with her about it, just do what you need to do with the attorney to make sure it doesn't happen. Let her get worked up when she figures it out; you won't be affected.

 

Work as hard as you can to see her as

• an inconvenience that you deal with out of necessity,
  
• a remnant of a soon-to-be past life that no longer affects you,
  
• a busybody that buzzes around doing useless things (i.e., fixing the house up to sell).

And really the only way to do that is the 180, which means getting past anything to do with her good or bad and on to you and what you need.

Edited October 3, 2014 by merrmeade

[Striver]

So I don't understand, after reading all posts in the thread, what your position is regarding the house. You've said that she wants to sell it asap, and that she had many projects for the house. You've said you'll get another place with a yard for the kids. But you haven't said why and what your thinking and feeling is about the house. I mean, she can't do it unless you agree to it, right?

 

Also, a couple of posters pointed out to you that keeping the kids in the same schools is a good reason to keep the house. I would think that trying to make a family life for them in the house would also be good for them rather than making them adjust to everything new. That is a huge factor - their stability - and it isn't clear how either you or your wife is considering that in your plans and lack of plans regarding the house.

 

It sounds like you're letting her make this decision just like all the others. Isn't it time you took a stand about something?

 

I'm very sorry this is happening to you. It sounds like a nightmare, having her in the same house when she's being such a witch. I can't imagine. So sounds like you're doing very well, considering the circumstances.

 

From reading what she's said and done, she seems incredibly selfish, willful, and uncompassionate - well, like they said, narcissistic. So the only thing that will work for you and will ultimately make her nuts, really is following the 180. You need to really and truly not care - for yourself and to make decisions for your children.

 

And if you decide it's best to keep the house for the kids, then don't bother arguing with her about it, just do what you need to do with the attorney to make sure it doesn't happen. Let her get worked up when she figures it out; you won't be affected.

 

 

Work as hard as you can to see her as

• an inconvenience that you deal with out of necessity,
  
• a remnant of a soon-to-be past life that no longer affects you,
  
• a busybody that buzzes around doing useless things (i.e., fixing the house up to sell).
  

And really the only way to do that is the 180, which means getting past anything to do with her good or bad and on to you and what you need.

 

Most everything my wife is doing is making this process difficult. Getting a divorce is one thing, but this is going to be a difficult divorce because of her attitude. She wants it all her way and fast. That's not possible.

 

Unlike my wife, I have a job, so I only have so much time to work on divorce stuff. I'm also busy right now, and can't even take time off. I just have to spend time here and there. I'm still up to a couple hours a day on divorce and contacting my lawyer regularly with questions. I just finished my financial disclosure statement, so I'm only starting to get a grasp on the financial implications.

 

Yes, in most cases I've read about the house is kept as a source of stability and is the last thing dealt with. That's why I don't want to deal with it now. The only advantage to me in dealing with it now is if I get concessions on other things.

 

She has said she doesn't want maintenance/alimony. My lawyer is trying to get me to lock that in. BUT, maintenance is based on her imputed income. I will have to look that up, it might have been close to mine if not greater. If that's the case, then she wouldn't be due any maintenance anyway. So that issue is a Trojan horse.

 

She wants me to sign some documents on Monday so we can sell the house. I WILL NOT SIGN ON MONDAY. Don't have enough information yet and too little to gain. I am acting in reasonably good faith and the wife is the one making everything difficult by blowing it all up for her own selfish reasons.

 

Once I find out what the wife's income was, I might push back with the lawyer on the maintenance. I think I need to do that. My lawyer seems knowledgable, but every case has particulars and I need to make sure I inform him of how I think things are going to go based on my wife.

[No Limit]

Avoid court? Is she running out of money already?

But yeah, you can definitely use this as an advantage.

[Striver]

In my divorce support group they talk about the "roller coaster", and after some promise on Friday, today was not a good day.

 

We were busy anyway. One of our kids had some doctor's tests on Monday that required keeping up our child half the night. So my wife took the first shift, I took the second. The child would stay awake no longer about an hour before we planned to take him/her up, so I took him/her up to bed and planned to set my alarm to get him/her up an hour early. Of course my wife wakes up and asks why I'm deviating from plan. For once my explanation was enough, and I was able to carry it out.

 

I knew we were going to talk about the house today, but I thought it would be later in the day. The wife chose a sneak attack while she was getting the kids ready to take over to her sisters' in the morning. I am told that while I can prevent the sale of the house, she can list the house all by herself. Gee thanks. Apparently she is already preapproved for a loan for a new house, despite the fact that normally that's not possible when a divorce is still in dispute. Her parents co-signed. Thanks, enabling in-laws.

 

There is a rush to sell, by her, so we can still do it in the remaining good weather. I gain nothing from a sale, and apparently her parents will fund anything, so I don't know what the rush is for her either. So today I was told we need to do it so we are in separate residences so our parenting skills can be evaluated. Apparently the custody fight is back on again?!? Told her that I thought neither of us wanted that now, so why would we sell for that.

 

I never have had the occasion to use the term "browbeating" before, but this was a browbeating. It was bad enough that she sensed it herself and the words "you don't deserve this" came out of her mouth. How true. I don't deserve the crap sandwich my wife is handing me in her mid-life crisis, neither do the kids.

 

I really don't want to deal with the house right now, but the separation is becoming more unpleasant. All of this needs to end somehow. I have barely had time to contemplate my own finances, since I have to react to something new from her every couple of days, and since I also WORK FOR A LIVING AND CAN'T RELY ON ENABLING PARENTS TO FUND MY EVERY DREAM.

 

I could tell her that if placement isn't settled I will reject any offers on the house. Don't really know right now. Just not a good day on that topic.

[Spark1111]

How about this?

 

Your lawyer can talk to my lawyer and IF my lawyer tells me it is in mine and the children's best interests to sell this home, than I will.

 

NOT one minute sooner.

 

Have a nice day!

[Spark1111]

Striver, the 180 is all about self-protection.

 

Do not engage with this woman. Just tell her that she can exit the marriage but how can she think disrupting those small children from their home is in their best interests?

 

It is not. Dig your heels in and then repeat:When my lawyer and the courts tell me I have to sell, I will.

 

Why is everyone making the destruction of a family so easy for this woman?

 

Let her browbeat her parents, her lawyer and her AP.

 

tell her her lawyer can speak to your lawyer and then LEAVE the room and got to work.

[No Limit]

Cease contact that doesn't include the kids. You're talking to a brick wall with parents who readily throw their money out of their window, which is not your problem.

Just take it to court. She's just trying to keep you wrapped around her little finger; or at worst "trap you" in any way she can. Stand your ground.

You're not supposed to please her anymore.

[Darren Steez]

I had a lawyer I liked, but she couldn't take my case. I'm interviewing a couple others this week and will decide on one shortly.

 

Someone has to be the adult, to think of the kids. Usually people with small children make some effort to make the marriage work before quitting. WW has made no effort to work on the marriage, admits as such, and is leaving anyway.

 

WW is a bossy, dominant person. Nothing I could do was ever going to change her mind. All I could do was have the pleasure of filing. She doesn't want to work on the marriage, she wants to make things harder for me and the kids, she can go file.

 

Wrong. Sorry dude. You make a marriage work because you truly want to be with that person. You're putting the onus on her to file and yet she won't and thus continues to enjoy life, OM on one side and a nice house to come home to on the other. Again who is suffering, not her, but you.

 

You say she is bossy and yet continue to be passive, citing the "being the adult", she continues to drive this until she sees fit.

[Striver]

Why is everyone making the destruction of a family so easy for this woman?

 

I have done about all I can do. She was bent on divorce from Day One. I exposed her, etc. to no affect. I could have filed myself, but that doesn't help the family any.

 

Her family also helped her prep the house for sale. So they are all in on doing her bidding. They have all been nice to me, but apparently they can't say no to her.

 

She is an assertive, articulate narcissist. She got a 6 figure upper management job in her 20s with unimpressive college credentials. Like most upper management types, her ability to project a successful image is her most valuable product. Normally she projects confidence, someone who has it all together, warmth. Narcissists often are quite charismatic. She was very good at playing the role of the good wife and mother until she got bored with it. Then it was just another job to her.

 

The downside is that she has almost no interior life, ability to reflect, or ability to stop and smell the roses and enjoy the little things. It's all about projects. She can't stand what she sees inside herself, so most everything else outside her eventually has something wrong with it or is a source of discontent. She is supposedly so close with her parents, but that didn't prevent her from trashing their marriage verbally when she was splitting with me.

 

She does have a fair number of long term friends, but she doesn't see those people every day. Not really a fair comparison to a marriage.

[No Limit]

A narcissist loves him/herself only. No one else, no friendship and no family. A shallow life to live as you already mentioned, her being is that smiling facade she sells to costumers, no more, no less.

 

I think you're just too much trying to prevent the divorce to happen. You can't save your play of happy family anymore, she wrecked it. And thankfully she was for divorce form the very start, this way she saved you a lot of "What does this mean? Does she want to reconcile?"-*****. Or worse, a fake reconciliation.

 

As a narcissist, she wouldn't have cared even if you had exposed her in a TV advert to all of America. Don't try to make her feel bad, that piece of information doesn't go to an emotional side of her because there is none. It's wasted energy.

[stillafool]

What type of man is her affair partner? Have you met him?

[Striver]

What type of man is her affair partner? Have you met him?

 

He's a police officer, in his 40s, never married. I met him a couple of times before we married. At the time, he wouldn't commit to his long term girlfriend and they broke up shortly thereafter.

 

He and my wife share an antiquing interest. Just seemed like an average guy, no better and no worse. I predict my wife will dominate any relationship they have, which isn't much of a gamble on my part.

[Striver]

I think you're just too much trying to prevent the divorce to happen. You can't save your play of happy family anymore, she wrecked it. And thankfully she was for divorce form the very start, this way she saved you a lot of "What does this mean? Does she want to reconcile?"-*****. Or worse, a fake reconciliation.

 

As a narcissist, she wouldn't have cared even if you had exposed her in a TV advert to all of America. Don't try to make her feel bad, that piece of information doesn't go to an emotional side of her because there is none. It's wasted energy.

 

If there is any positive to this, yes her clinical methods have saved me some time with false reconciliation. I would have been willing to try.

 

I don't regret sticking it out to the extent that I have. The kids deserved a summer in the family home and I gave them that, did what I could. Summer's over now, though. Daddy can't stop the process. Daddy needs to rebuild his life in the years he has left on this earth.

[bathtub-row]

I am told that while I can prevent the sale of the house, she can list the house all by herself. Gee thanks. Apparently she is already preapproved for a loan for a new house, despite the fact that normally that's not possible when a divorce is still in dispute. Her parents co-signed. Thanks, enabling in-laws.

 

This sounds like complete nonsense. I doubt that a realtor would even list a house where both parties haven't consented to selling it. If I were you, I'd call whatever realtor your future ex uses and let him/her know that a) you're not going to sign even if there is a buyer and b) you will not agree to showings. That should stop everything in its tracks. And if they decide to continue down that ridiculous path, a potential buyer isn't going to stick around very long once they figure out the house can't be purchased.

 

Whether your future ex is anxious to move into another house or not is irrelevant. You shouldn't concern yourself with her agenda at all. Personally, I would not move out of the house until the divorce is final. I'm surprised your lawyer hasn't already suggested this. It has been my experience that the courts do not like the kids lives to be disrupted and you staying in the house shows stability. Your future ex may be in for quite a shock if the courts decide to give you custody of the kids. That's exactly what happened with a friend of mine. He got the house and the kids.

 

Regardless of all that, this thing about putting the house on the market is total nonsense.

[Striver]

This sounds like complete nonsense. I doubt that a realtor would even list a house where both parties haven't consented to selling it. If I were you, I'd call whatever realtor your future ex uses and let him/her know that a) you're not going to sign even if there is a buyer and b) you will not agree to showings. That should stop everything in its tracks. And if they decide to continue down that ridiculous path, a potential buyer isn't going to stick around very long once they figure out the house can't be purchased.

 

Whether your future ex is anxious to move into another house or not is irrelevant. You shouldn't concern yourself with her agenda at all. Personally, I would not move out of the house until the divorce is final. I'm surprised your lawyer hasn't already suggested this. It has been my experience that the courts do not like the kids lives to be disrupted and you staying in the house shows stability. Your future ex may be in for quite a shock if the courts decide to give you custody of the kids. That's exactly what happened with a friend of mine. He got the house and the kids.

 

Regardless of all that, this thing about putting the house on the market is total nonsense.

 

I don't know what will happen with the house now. I was going to offer to put it on the market contingent upon getting placement settled. The formal offer my wife made for placement wasn't as good as I thought it would be.

 

Because my wife is trying to claim her paltry antiquing proceeds as current income, even though I would be doing about 45% of the care, yet getting only 29% of the overnights, she wants to use her "current" income instead of imputed income, what she's capable of earning. So then my child support goes up to 29% of gross income for the three kids, what I would pay if I lived far away and never cared for the kids at all. Just a lousy starting point. Wife apparently wants to go through nonsense lowball offers trying to gouge.

 

I will explain to my lawyer that we have to start to assume the worst of my wife's intentions and her side.