Chronic avoider spouse, no sex, joint divorce?

[tippydog90]

I can't see a judge forcing you to pay him alimony, particularly since your child is only a year old. Was he working when you married him? Did you have an agreement that he would stay home with your child while you worked, or is that how things just ended up.

 

My thoughts are the judge will just look at him for what he is, a lazy man that refuses to get a job. Which is NOT your problem Jakrbbt, you cannot force anyone to find a job no matter how hard you try and a judge knows that. As for child support, my understanding is in many states it isn't necessarily calculated based on actual income (in his current situation 0), but rather what someone is CAPABLE of earning. If the man has a degree and is capable of making a decent wage (but is just choosing not to), the judge will certainly take that into consideration. I am sure the judge will weigh all those factors in the decision. So I wouldn't necessarily think you are going to end up paying this man a red cent in alimony. And I absolutely think you should ask for child support, it may be the only way he gets up off his hiney and goes to work. Just my thoughts....

[jakrbbt]

The court here goes through an automatic child support calculation based on who has majority parenting time, how much day care that parent will pay for, and then, secondarily, what the income of the other parent is. But if the income is zero, the state automatically imputes full time minimum wage (unless he's previously reassessed full disability, which he won't, lately he's been traveling to another city to work some weekends, though he uses the money for his hobbies and doesn't contribute wirth it. Last year he tried working a bit, he made $8k and spent it all on his hobbies. I over-claimed for taxes bc he told me he'd be making $2k all year. I don't begrudge him making some mad money, bit it's gonna be pretty hard to claim disability when you can work whenever you want money to spend on your hobbies. ) alimony come in 3 forms for specific reasons, none of which is simply that the spouse chose to stay home with kid while the other spouse continued job he/she would have anyway. And courts don't typically award alimony for such short marriages.

 

 

So my worry is that he'll think that the only way to avoid paying me money--or maybe try to get me to owe him some-- is if he asks for majority parenting time and possibly full custody. (Parenting time and custody are separate things.) I don't think he's equipped for that responsibility. I'm already wondering where the baby will be on, day, Wednesdays and Thursdays if I agree to dad hanging him those days. I don't want baby sleeping anywhere else at all, until h shows that he has an income and a place to live other than on his sister's couch.

 

Maybe it would be reasonable that dad have visitation a few weekdays but baby comes back to my house before bedtime--at least until he is older and his dad has a place of his own. Right now h's brother is living in their parents' garage with his 2 sons. It's a nice garage, bit still. I don't want my toddler son living in a garage part time or basically being raised by his grandparents when his mom can raise him just fine.

 

And yes, he's a social worker and actually quite good with at-risk youth. I am nowhere near the situation where I'd conceivably be ordered to pay transitional or vocational support. But if we are friends in future, I'd definitely help him make connections and polish up an application for grad school, like I would any friend whose ability I believed in. He says he won't go back to school though so that is up to him. He is a longtime recovering alcoholic and says he needs all that time with hobbies to work on and sustain his sobriety. He probably shared that with me in confidence but I think I'm going to have to share it with my attorney. If h can't handle patenting, judge needs to know. And if he was making that up in order top get out of participating more as a husband and parent, then I guess that's too bad, unwillingness to parent is not functionally different from inability to parent.

Edited September 3, 2014 by jakrbbt

[BetrayedH]

It's going to take one consult with an attorney for him to realize that his best bet (period) is to get as much custody as humanly possible. If he manages to get 50/50 custody (which is becoming more and more realistic for men these days - like me), then you face paying child support to him.

 

This is where it gets ugly - both parents fighting for custody by trying to prove what a bad parent the other one is. It ends up anything but amicable.

[pteromom]

The main reason I don't want to ask for child support is, I do not want a drawn-out battle with attorney fees, and I don't think h will ever make good money and I have a pretty good job and great reputation in my field and am a lawyer. So I can afford to give him an offer he can't refuse.

 

The purpose of child support isn't to placate your husband. It's to support your CHILD. Even if your husband makes minimum wage and can only pay $200 a month in support, that money could go directly into a college savings account or trust fund for your child, and could make a huge difference in his life!

 

It's very nice that you are trying to be amicable and trying to be fair, and trying to enable your husband's lazy avoidant ways, but there is probably going to be negotiation in your divorce. You will get the best outcome by going for full custody and support. That gives you wiggle room for negotiation. If you go in handing him everything on a silver platter, then any negotiation takes away from what you really want here.

 

He loves his daddy and it would be great if he had a good relationship with both parents.

 

The sooner you learn that you aren't responsible for making that happen, the better off you are going to be. It will be his father's job to maintain that relationship. And based on results, I wouldn't be surprised if he is lazy and avoidant with his child too. QUIT thinking about making things easy for him, and think about your son.

[stillafool]

Just the opposite, you're already way over-thinking this, paralysis by analysis.

 

Step 1 - Meet with lawyer

Step 2 - Draw up paperwork

Step 3 - Serve husband

 

Forget any thoughts of his vacation schedule, transportation needs, employment potential and living arrangements. Those are his problems and dealing with them may actually end his inertia.

 

100% of your focus should be on you and your child. His future is his to determine and he seems like the type who will simply thwart your best laid plans for him anyway. In short, let it go...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I 100% agree. Your husband is a grown man so let him make his own decisions about the next steps in his life and where he will work and live. Your thoughts should be about you and your son only.

[jakrbbt]

BetrayedH, that is my worry. However, according to my very experienced attorney, h is unlikely to get that. And even with 50-50 I'd owe very little.

 

My lawyer was recommended to me by a judge who used to do Dom rel cases and who has known me since I was a kid. Now I know why she chose him. The attorney is very direct. He's also very experienced and has a lot of credibility with courts and other lawyers. And my h husband is more likely to listen to this guy than to most. The lawyer will call me on it if I'm offering something unworkable just out of fear. And if I have a generous offer, and h has weaknesses in his case, this lawyer is quite successful at conveying that to opposing pastries.

 

The lesson I glean from Bathtub Row is, don't offer something nice just too be nice, esp. if it's not workable. Offer something that might be less than I could get, if and only if that's a way to avoid risking some worse outcome with litigation. But it has to still be workable. Not just scared-pants wanting to avoid litigation art all costs. And not based on saving h.

[jakrbbt]

Haha, "opposing pastries." Typing on phone.

 

I think I'll go get some oppoing pastries, it's lunchtime.

[jakrbbt]

Just the opposite, you're already way over-thinking this, paralysis by analysis.

 

Step 1 - Meet with lawyer

Step 2 - Draw up paperwork

Step 3 - Serve husband

 

Forget any thoughts of his vacation schedule, transportation needs, employment potential and living arrangements. Those are his problems and dealing with them may actually end his inertia.

 

100% of your focus should be on you and your child. His future is his to determine and he seems like the type who will simply thwart your best laid plans for him anyway. In short, let it go...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is a tough one for me. But I think you're right.

 

If I don't take care of my husband, that doesn't mean he can'ttake care of himself. I already have a child and need to focus on him. After all, I'm divorcing in order to get on with my own life, including parenting our son.

 

But I still feel mean and unreasonable asking someone for money when he makes less than I do. Possibly a stipulation that any child support goes into baby's separate bank account (he has one) will help.

[Mr. Lucky]

But I still feel mean and unreasonable asking someone for money when he makes less than I do. Possibly a stipulation that any child support goes into baby's separate bank account (he has one) will help.

Stop that line of thinking!!!

 

You're not asking, his child's future is asking for his support. He doesn't get to lay on the couch and pretend that obligation doesn't exist. And as far as I know, the lazy half of your husband's personality hasn't hired you as counsel. Quit defending him...

 

Mr. Lucky

[tippydog90]

Your husband took care of himself before you met him, he can take care of himself (and his child) again. He is not your responsibility. As you told me in my post a few days ago, quit making things about husband and focus on what is right for the child. Plenty of parents that make less than their spouse pay child support. My STBX makes less than me and he will pay child support and has no problem with that. And if you don't need it for monthly expenses, while you might want to put some of it in the bank in your child's name or in a college fund, I would also create a nest egg for you to fall back on in case of a major emergency in your life where you are unable to work, etc. Remember it is your husband's responsibility as a parent to help provide for his child, not your responsibility to make it easy for him not to. You are enabling his lack of motivation, laziness, and lack of responsibility for his child by making excuses for him. He is a grown man, let him worry about himself. What will you tell your child when he is older about his father's lack of responsibility if you don't demand it?

[TheBladeRunner]

Just the opposite, you're already way over-thinking this, paralysis by analysis.

 

Step 1 - Meet with lawyer

Step 2 - Draw up paperwork

Step 3 - Serve husband

 

Forget any thoughts of his vacation schedule, transportation needs, employment potential and living arrangements. Those are his problems and dealing with them may actually end his inertia.

 

100% of your focus should be on you and your child. His future is his to determine and he seems like the type who will simply thwart your best laid plans for him anyway. In short, let it go...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is soooooo true!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I did the exact opposite when I first separated just over 2 years ago. That was my only concern: Her schedule, her work, whatever SHE needed. I did this for 6 months and it was stupid. Being a "prince" to her never really helped; when I decided to let her deal with her end of the bargain it really helped me in the end.

[tippydog90]

And you also are focusing on what he might be able to get from you and making him a good offer to be fair and so he won't go after more. I might be wrong, but frankly, I don't see where the man is entitled to anything from you. It doesn't sound as though you have been married that long, your child is only a year old and your husband has been the one refusing to work. It isn't like you have been married 20 years and he put his career on hold all that time to care for children in which cases alimony is sometimes awarded. This is a grown man with a degree that has chosen not to work since your child was born. I think any judge with an iota of sanity would tell him to get off his arse and find a job....

[jakrbbt]

I can't even believe how ridiculously hard it is for me to keep hold of all you guys's (mostly agreeing) perspective for like 10 minutes after logging off of LS. I have a suspicion that I've been pretty skewed in how I've seen it. The scales begin to fall. But then I keep wanting so badly to be a decent stand-up ex and co-parent.

 

What it comes down to is: child is he's responsibility and duty. Not just some cute prize that I gave him. And h is not some present of a well-equipped daddy that I secured for my son. H has his own grownup responsibility, because he procreated, to either parent his son half time and pay for what it costs to do that, or support the more-than-50% that the other parent has, by paying some of those same costs. Otherwise, he has the same level of responsibility as if he'd never had the kid, except he'd still take some time to visit with him and be sweet to him.

 

And he can be capable of the above responsibility. He's bright, sober, able-bodied, 40, has a good college degree, great wirth people, long and varied job history, skill set, and a few very good friends in town he's gotten out of touch with. If he is not inclined to be responsible, that's another matter and certainly not something I can "help" him worth.

 

He's just been complaining so much about how onerous it is to watch baby during the 3-5 days I work, I forgot that it is not some huge favor he's doing. It's both our responsibility v to provide care by either working and paying for day care, or being with the child.

 

H will claim that he's been a full time care provider and moved away from his job to live where I wanted. But he was virtually unemployed for 2 years before baby. Several months before I got pregnant, he stopped contributing the $400 toward rent and groceries that he'd agreed to. We both decided to move when I got pregnant, because both sets of grandparents are here and it's a better place to raise a child. I wanted h to work a year ago, and I have emails to him to that effect. But he won't work, he won't contribute beyond babysitting when I'm at work (hands the baby off and leaves less than twenty seconds after I get home), and he complains about caring for baby as though he were a sainted martyr. So it's become too easy for me to fall into the belief that this is all just too hard for him.

 

But that does not change the fact that one's child is one's responsibility.

 

the encouragement here (and even the brow-beating) is so helpful.

Edited September 3, 2014 by jakrbbt

[jakrbbt]

You know what, by the same token, I can go ahead and quit dreading the possibility of paying child support, myself. Because IF I do that, it will ONLY be because I am spending less on the child otherwise because he's not in my care as much. And that will only happen if h can show that he's equipped and gives baby a good environment and good care. I've been worrying that I'd end up paying support AND also buying 2 sets of clothes, all the child's food and toys and beds and activities, plus doing all the planning and parenting chores et c. And I've been fearing that the court would award more parenting time to h than he could handle. But assuming child is always with a parent who can handle it, Then each either pays for half the care because they have him half the time buying food clothes day care activities et c... or they contribute to make up for whatever part of that half that they don't have him in their care. I just need to make sure that the court, our mediator or lawyers, is aware of all the factors that you would want to know when deciding who can take care of a child how much of the time.

[jakrbbt]

You know what, by the same token, I can go ahead and quit dreading the possibility of paying child support, myself. Because IF a parent is ordered to pay that, it is theoretically because they are spending less on the child otherwise because he's not in their care as much, so the support makes up for that. And that will only happen in my case if h can show that he's equipped and gives baby a good environment and good care. Which I still would not like being away from baby so much, and I'll still ask for at least half time parenting time. BUT: I've been worrying that I'd end up paying support AND also buying 2 sets of clothes, all the child's food and toys and beds and activities, plus doing all the planning and parenting chores et c. But why would I do that? And I've been fearing that the court would award more parenting time to h than he could handle and I'd bail him out financially and worry when baby is with him. But assuming child is always with a parent who can handle it, Then each either pays for half the care because they have him half the time buying food clothes day care activities et c... or they contribute to make up for whatever part of that half that they don't have him in their care. I just need to make sure that the court, our mediator or lawyers, is aware of all the factors that you would want to know when deciding who can take care of a child how much of the time.

Edited September 4, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Yasuandio]

This is really horrid, but it has been done, especially with unmatched women that don't want the man in their life.

 

What about buying him out? Baby and all. Period.

 

Sign over his rights to child and stay out of your lives forever.

 

Don't write it, just ask him, in confidential mediation.

 

He might go for it. To him, it might be better than working and CS, and future commitments. A big chunk of money can buy him time to con a new provider.

 

Just an idea. Y

[BetrayedH]

BetrayedH, that is my worry. However, according to my very experienced attorney, h is unlikely to get that. And even with 50-50 I'd owe very little.

 

My lawyer was recommended to me by a judge who used to do Dom rel cases and who has known me since I was a kid. Now I know why she chose him. The attorney is very direct. He's also very experienced and has a lot of credibility with courts and other lawyers. And my h husband is more likely to listen to this guy than to most. The lawyer will call me on it if I'm offering something unworkable just out of fear. And if I have a generous offer, and h has weaknesses in his case, this lawyer is quite successful at conveying that to opposing pastries.

 

The lesson I glean from Bathtub Row is, don't offer something nice just too be nice, esp. if it's not workable. Offer something that might be less than I could get, if and only if that's a way to avoid risking some worse outcome with litigation. But it has to still be workable. Not just scared-pants wanting to avoid litigation art all costs. And not based on saving h.

 

Just keep in mind that attorneys (at least the ones I've had experience with) are extraordinarily good at painting a good picture (which keeps you writing checks) and then lamenting a poor outcome. They can blame it all on the judge. Regardless of your good attorney, many judges now look at 50/50 as the default best-case-scenario for a child (lots of data suggests that equal parent involvement is best for a child of divorce) and the onus would be on you to prove that he's not prepared. That's not going to be easy based on what you've written here. In fact, you've made a good case for him as an experienced stay-at-home parent with a good foundation towards a career. Of course, there is some pressure on him as well to demonstrate that he can handle 50/50 but when push comes to shove, that's really the one thing he will have to do.

 

I'm not trying to paint a negative picture here. I just know that my wife probably thought about the same as you. But I got my own two-bedroom apartment, furnished it (bunk-beds) from Ikea, and very quickly established my ability to handle my kids. I got 50/50 and it wasn't hard. And she was making slightly more than I so I receive a small amount of child-support each month. His unemployment may be seen as unfortunate but also a part of your marital lifestyle. You will have an ability to pay (where he does not) but that doesn't mean he loses custody of his child.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy. I just see a lot of people here clamoring for you to get child support from an unemployed spouse that you're divorcing. I really don't think that's remotely realistic and it could easily go the other way. You could even end up paying for his attorney. His complaints about parenting probably won't mean anything as everyone complains about kids occassionally and his tune will probably be very different in front of a judge.

 

I do feel for you that you can't mediate between yourselves but few people divorcing can.

[stillafool]

This is really horrid, but it has been done, especially with unmatched women that don't want the man in their life.

 

What about buying him out? Baby and all. Period.

 

Sign over his rights to child and stay out of your lives forever.

 

Don't write it, just ask him, in confidential mediation.

 

He might go for it. To him, it might be better than working and CS, and future commitments. A big chunk of money can buy him time to con a new provider.

 

Just an idea. Y

 

I don't think the above would be fair to the baby. The baby needs his father and his father should have access to his child as well providing he shows that he is a good dad by his care and shouldering his half of the child's financial support.

[jakrbbt]

Regardless of your good attorney, many judges now look at 50/50 as the default best-case-scenario for a child (lots of data suggests that equal parent involvement is best for a child of divorce) and the onus would be on you to prove that he's not prepared. That's not going to be easy based on what you've written here. In fact, you've made a good case for him as an experienced stay-at-home parent with a good foundation towards a career. Of course, there is some pressure on him as well to demonstrate that he can handle 50/50 but when push comes to shove, that's really the one thing he will have to do.

 

I'm not trying to paint a negative picture here. I just know that my wife probably thought about the same as you. But I got my own two-bedroom apartment, furnished it (bunk-beds) from Ikea, and very quickly established my ability to handle my kids. I got 50/50 and it wasn't hard.

 

If my husband could get a steady job and apartment, AND could address the parenting concerns that I have to the satisfaction of the court, then 50/50 parenting time would be great. That would mean that my child has both parents very much in his life and operating competently as parents (unless the trial court were sorely deceived as to facts and simply made the wrong decision). I agree with courts that that is a good idea where both parents are responsible good parents truly pulling their 50 percent share of the weight. I am guessing, BetrayedH, that you can handle the 50 percent time that you have just fine, and that your kids are safe with you. I'd actually like that for my child too, even though I'd selfishly dislike so many days away from my baby. But I am not going to agree to it in a settlement unless and until the concerns that I have regarding his parenting are addressed.

 

[Concerns to address in settlement or in court:]

Obfuscation: For example, he refuses to keep me reasonably informed about the child's welfare, won't tell me whether baby had lunch or when he last ate, what generally they did that day, and if he leaves with baby, refuses to tell me where they are going, because he says I should not ask, I should "trust" him. We could have it in a divorce decree that we keep each other reasonably informed, I've seen that.

 

Money habits: He will not get a job, except that last year he did make around $8k and spent it all on hobbies-- not one toy for baby, no contribution to the household, and not one cent went to this debt that he has that is causing a garnishment of his wages, so he can't keep a bank account. He made slightly over the amount of the debt last year, he could have paid it off. And i paid the few hundred dollars in gas for him to do the temporary jobs, not to mention bought him a car to drive around because he bought two non-functioning project cars. His first year back at school several years ago, he spend his entire student loan on a project car, then had nothing to live on while a student. So, I have to see that he can use his money responsibly and provide for baby, not spend it all on hobbies and remain in debt and have no groceries.

 

The real parenting time: I keep a log that shows I do 80 percent parenting time if you count overnights, and 50 to 60 percent parenting time if you count only baby's waking hours. That is why I've been making up for work by sitting here until 3am on my computer, I watch baby during a lot of my work from home days. I do almost all the chores as well and shopping, finances, planning et c. If h can show that he's capable of that, then hot-dog, let him do his part during his half.

 

Statements to kid when "off shift": H immediately bolts each day when I get home, stating "I have to get away from [kid's name], or "I'm sick of [baby], I gotta go." Baby is old enough to know what he's saying! (Now, they do love each other and have a bond, despite those ugly comments each day-- it's not all bad, they play and snuggle too.) I've tried to address the "gotta get away from baby" comments and rushing off, but he won't acknowledge that baby can understand English. (17 months old, totally responds to ordinary adult sentences and talks some.) We've tried to negotiate, in counseling, THREE minutes together with baby after I get home from work. H will not do it even after repeated negotiations. So, I'm going to have to bring that up or have some reassurance that he can suddenly handle a kid past 6:00 without having to leave. (Baby wakes at 9 or 10. So that's not as long a day as it would be with most tots.) And I want him a little more educated about child psychology, you don't just say every day in front of your kid that you're desperate to get away from him.

 

Deception: H told me he was searching for a job all this past spring, and said he was searching every day. He said there was no work in our city. Then in counseling this July, he told the counselor that there were plenty of jobs here he could get, but that he did not want to work because he wanted to stay home with baby. He also said he didn't have any plan for when in the future he'd want to work, or what work he'd do when that time came. The material deception and also the chronic disinclination to work both concern me, and I'd be surprised if any judge had much sympathy for his stay-at-home status based on that-- particularly because I pull most the "housewife" load as well. And he was virtually unemployed before I got pregnant. (Yeah yeah, I was a rube, I can see that now. I thought the unemployment woes were temporary then.)

 

There are a few other concerns. If H can truly address them to my satisfaction, then I'll gladly agree to both of us being close to equal parenting time. If not, then he'll have to address the same concerns to a court's satisfaction, bc I will bring them up. I'd love for him to step up. If he does that as a result of divorce and we both get our child equal time, then that will be one good outcome from this whole painful hell.

Edited September 5, 2014 by jakrbbt

[tippydog90]

Jakrbbt,

My daughter is almost 3 and everything I have read, including the courts own recommendations, states that at her age and younger the most important thing is consistency. Everything I have read does not recommend in any way, shuttling a child that young back and forth between two different homes (50/50 custody). In fact, they recommend limited overnights with the non-custodial parents and a very, very gradual transition to longer stays (like over years, not months). At that age children need to know that one place is home and have that sense of belonging and consistency. I would read up extensively on this before you consider any agreements for 50/50 sharing at the young age of your child. I had no idea myself until I started reading extensively after my daughter's behavior changed dramatically after a 4 night stay with her father about a month ago.

[Yasuandio]

I read this Moderator's suggestion (below) in the Dating Section, of which I've copied just a few potions:

 

"If you're having a dating experience and post a thread on it, please keep your updates and additional comments confined to that particular thread and refrain from making new threads with updates.....A thread starter can update their threads at any time and that places the thread at the top of the discussion list so others can see it. Additionally, if new information indicates an update to the title is appropriate, the thread starter can simply alert moderation via the 'alert us' button on the starting post and request an updated title. We're happy to do it!......"

 

Even in the Separation and Divorce section, I have noted that posted have requested that OP's keep their story on one thread to avoid confusion and overlap. In your case, Jakrbbit, I recommend you merge all of your threads to avoid certain omissions.

 

I am not suggesting that omissions on your part are purposeful. However, with this newest post in particular, important information is missing that might provide more insight to your readers, rather than just what you "want" or are "ready" to hear in spoonfuls.

 

Without the prior context, some do not comprehend how problematic your spouse's conduct really is:

 

Example: You seeing on H's iPad that he's been to attorney about alimony and is "gathering the troops.

 

Example: H has taken unauthorized nude and embarassing photos of you, and photos of you in your sleep - and has sent them to relatives (that much you know).

 

There are many more examples in your previous threads.

 

Then, factor in, how you break your back to protect him and his interest - actually over your son - until a poster called you on it!

 

I know I sound like I'm being tough on you - but I have taken all your previous post quite seriously. And the way you tend to sprinkle on the "nice-nice" is a post like this really causes me some concern.

 

Get it on one page - see what others think.

 

I posted some new articles in Critical Readings, have a look at the last three, the theme in general was inspired by your case. I see some signs I recognize in YOU - (I have seen them in myself so they are familiar). No one is ammuned, everyone is looking for a coping mechinism, to be sure. Only trying to help you. I don't know everything, I only know what I think I see. Yas

[tippydog90]

Jakrbbt,

If your husband has truly taken nude photos of you while sleeping (as stated in above post) and sent them to relatives, I would have had his *ss served the next day. That is abuse, period. It is appalling, egregious, and beyond comprehension. There is no way in the world I would even consider letting this man have joint custody of my child. There is something seriously wrong with any man that would do that to any woman, much less his wife. No judge in his right mind would allow you to pay alimony to a man that would do something like this. If true, this guy needs serious counseling, not joint custody of a child. Sorry to be so harsh, but there is no way I'd be playing nice with this man.

[Yasuandio]

Jakrbbt,

If your husband has truly taken nude photos of you while sleeping (as stated in above post) and sent them to relatives, I would have had his *ss served the next day. That is abuse, period. It is appalling, egregious, and beyond comprehension. There is no way in the world I would even consider letting this man have joint custody of my child. There is something seriously wrong with any man that would do that to any woman, much less his wife. No judge in his right mind would allow you to pay alimony to a man that would do something like this. If true, this guy needs serious counseling, not joint custody of a child. Sorry to be so harsh, but there is no way I'd be playing nice with this man.

 

Tippydog,

 

Please me, I'm not sure which kind of photos he sends out - I made mistake in my illiteration, I apologize. As I recall, her husband took embarrassing photos also, and pix of messes she she makes (This is why it's best to be on one thread). I think the photos of her so-called "messes" he has sent to relatives per Jkrabbits's explanation. [in my opinion, people that do this crap, you never know what to expect, why take chances, is what I preached in that post].

 

Very sorry for confusion, here is exact quote from thread Divorcing the Deadbeat:

 

"[iMore than once, he has described his past self as a “borderline con artist.” I do not trust him. He’s been highly manipulative and lied to his family about me. How did I ever get involved with someone who does that kind of thing? He breaches my trust and my privacy. He photographs me and my supposed “messes” and texts them to his family, without me even knowing there was any supposed mess. (Like that tiny coffee spill on the cupboard.)

 

He used to photograph me naked or in embarrassing situations without my permission, and over my repeated objections, and he’d send some of the photos to his sister (not the naked ones) (that I know of). It has tapered off but I've caught him sneaking more invasive photos a couple times and he is blatantly unapologetic when I ask him to stop. I can’t live like this in my own house. I need basic privacy and trust. I feel it is quickly becoming extremely unwise for me to stay in the same house with this person. I don’t see where he has demonstrated any care or respect for me, nor is he maintaining basic honesty."

 

I hate quoting this. I bet I'm gonna be in trouble. Better to help someone with a serious problem, than worry about getting in hot water with LS. See the other threads - together - it is concerning to say the least. Yas

 

Don't bother yelling at me. I am disappearing myself for awhile.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Yasuandio

[jakrbbt]

Ah, no problem sharing Yas, I expect that anyone who has the time and is curious can look old posts. And the bit about sticking to one thread is well-taken.

 

I don't take the same dim view of his actions, to me they are not so sinister-- but they are intrusive and a deal-breaker. The photographing . . . how can I explain how it seemed . . . he and his (not very well-educated) sister talk about me as though I'm some cartoon-character professor or doctor, they even have a cute animal nickname for me. He objectifies me and looks up to me at the same time, kind of like you would an uncle who was also a stuffy judge and you thought it was cute that he wore a bowtie to picnics (I don't, but.) So my husband photographs me in stages of disarray and he thinks it's so cute and funny. He thinks that I can't have real feelings because I am not a real human who watches vapid sitcoms and tells fart jokes, I'm just a [cute animal nickname] who is too smart and accomplished to have privacy. He has nothing in common with me. He objectifies me to the people he has stuff in common with, kind of like two teenagers snickering about their older brother together. That's the best way I can explain it. Mind you, I think my husband is plenty smart and could easily be a lawyer too if he had the inclination-- but he clearly doesn't know that and even more clearly doesn't want to hear it. Long rant regarding the photos, sorry.

 

As for "gathering the troops," yes, that shocked and frightened me. The comment came from a woman he's friends with, someone I'd thought was my friend too, someone I'd gone out of my way to help before. She was quite offended to hear that I was unhappy in my marriage. My h did see a divorce attorney, before I ever did, bc I mentioned divorce to him. I don't think it was bad that he saw a lawyer. He likely did so because I am his source of income and he wants to know what is going to happen "to" him if I file for divorce-- possibly he is scared. Or possibly, he's conniving and scheming with this woman to take me to the cleaners for deigning to be unhappy in my marriage and wanting out. I don't know. I no longer care. Of course he and his lawyer will ask for as much as they think he can "get." I don't know that that's sinister, just the way things go. The only thing that would bother me is if he used deception to get there. If we're both honest, then a normal settlement and custody agreement is viable. Sometimes I spin out and worry--a LOT.

 

My husband has been gone for a few days. I realize a lot of my worries just amount to me freaking out because of interpersonal problems with him. IF I do not care about his problems (tough one for me), then everything is actually fine. He can function, I can function better without him, baby can have both parents around and be fine. Right now my husband controls a lot of my thoughts, worries, and attitudes, like I am always trying to anticipate him. That ins't necessarily his fault. He is uptight and micro-controlling but I could have had the wherewithal to put up a middle finger once in a while. The point is, with him gone, suddenly I realize we are all going to be ok most likely. Equal access parenting is extremely likely, and happens in most cases in this jurisdiction. So I have to quit whining about dad's issues with baby care-- baby will be physically safe and loved and any little problems I have with his parenting are just something I'll have to bear-- but this marriage is not. Spousal support is unlikely but if I have to pay it, I'll move into a cheaper place and hope my husband is using the spousal support to get on his feet (any support would be temporary). = Still better than staying in unhealthy marriage, which is where we are now.

 

If he gets a job and proves industrious, or goes for his master's degree, I may voluntarily help him out here and there in manageable ways, in future, if baby and I are doing great. I do still have plenty of goodwill toward him. But I won't throw money down an empty pit, so no more helping just because I perceive him to be helpless. For me, that is key. I can see now that I do that.

 

Good advice and fyi about baby's welfare with visitation schedule. I can only do so much about that, but I'll ask for either overnights with me while dad sees him some days or evenings, in the beginning anyway, before my stbxh has an apartment. Then if it goes the way courts here are doing it, it will be two weekdays with me, two with dad, and alternating weekends unless my h wants to give weekends to me altogether. Our kid is young enough that I am hoping he can adjust-- he's fine when dad goes away for 4 or 5 day vacations as has happened plenty of times. Any way the cookie crumbles, I am feeling a lot calmer about it now that he has been away and the interpersonal cloud has drifted off for a few days. The future is looking better.

Edited September 6, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Yasuandio]

You worry about his comfort, I so worry about you. It just doesn't add up to be so peachy keen in the other posts. Perhaps this is your evolution I am witnessing. I am not an attorney, but devorce is adversarial in design. You are such a sweet forgiving woman, I would hate for you to gett screwed over in Court.

 

Sometimes your posts sound like the what the Judge would say. And that in not always so predictable, good attorney or not. I worry H is mean enough to show those photos in Court and try to make you out a hussy, if you claim a sexless marriage. I believe there is a reason for every weird thing he does. Especially, the woman he spoke with about "gathering the troops," to a "mutual" friend? That is, like you said frightening and shocking.

 

In fact, in all the hidious truths you have shared one at a time, you have said each was very upsetting, frightening, an invasion of privacy, a shock, etc. Later in time, per the photo shoot habit, you really soften you position, even though that conduct is mortifying to say the least, and in my opinion, sick and perverted (nothing like clowning around at a picnic as you now have reduced it to).

 

I think you are in extreme denial. You want him to be a normal regular man and father that you are divorcing. But he is far from that. You would be negligent not to investigate his evening activities. His at home behavior with the baby needs to be surveilled as well with a nanny cam and VARs. You cannot trust your instincts - they change as often as you change suits (I just showed this to you with photography, and you say it is cute now).

 

Remember, after the divorce, it will be too late. If you start to wonder then - they 'll be nothing you can do about. People that engage and are obsessed with bizarre camera conduct - where do you think it stops? At the picnic?

 

Girl, that weed conduct is sick. Add up all the item you reacted negatively to at the time you wrote them, and see the reality here. Let your attorney these things for the sake of your child. Trying hard to help you. Yas

I hope others will tell you the same.