Chronic avoider spouse, no sex, joint divorce?

[KarlaB]

Oh Jak you have such a kind heart but really at this point it has to be what is best for you and your son. You can't worry about what H is going to do when your gone. I think with my moving looming my H is a bit freaked over money and I could care less. I know I will be moving and focused on me and my son.

 

That is what you have to do.. You can do it.

[2sunny]

Your husband can start worrying about money when he realizes he needs it.

 

All you need to respond with at THAT time is "go ahead and earn your own money".

 

He's capable! But he figures he doesn't need to as long as you provide what he needs. Think about it - you just paid his way to take a vacation! You could have said NO WAY! He's proved he will spend the money YOU earn as long as you allow it!

 

 

Let him figure out HIS plan moving forward! That's called respecting someone enough to let them grow up!

 

Step away and start separating all avenues of his access to money! He will earn some when he gets hungry "enough"!

[jakrbbt]

I think I need to tell him tonight or tomorrow, much as I dread it. I've applied for a couple rentals, and they'll be calling my current landlord for reference. My landlord is soooo nice. I need to tell her that I plan to move but that my husband may want to stay, she can discuss that with him. I don't want him to find out via our landlord! My lawyer is fine with me talking to h and then getting an appointment with lawyer and signing the papers.

 

He's pretty much hard core avoiding me now, and I have our toddler.

[BetrayedH]

I think I need to tell him tonight or tomorrow, much as I dread it. I've applied for a couple rentals, and they'll be calling my current landlord for reference. My landlord is soooo nice. I need to tell her that I plan to move but that my husband may want to stay, she can discuss that with him. I don't want him to find out via our landlord! My lawyer is fine with me talking to h and then getting an appointment with lawyer and signing the papers.

 

He's pretty much hard core avoiding me now, and I have our toddler.

 

Go ahead and tell him if you think you must. Just don't have high expectations. Utlimately, it's your actions (and your attorney) that will speak for you. I guess I'm just looking at it from the perspective of reading how many times you have already 'said' you want a separation/divorce and it's gotten you nowhere. At this point, if you feel you need to inform him that actions are coming, then so be it. I just wouldn't expect a fruitful discussion. You should really expect nothing from him from here on out. He'll do what he will do and you will do what you will do. Know what I mean?

[Yasuandio]

Go ahead and tell him if you think you must. Just don't have high expectations. Utlimately,. Expect. -t's your actions (and your attorney) that will speak for you. I guess I'm just looking at it from the perspective of reading how many times you have already 'said' you want a separation/divorce and it's gn you nowhere. At this point, if you feel you need to inform him that actions are coming, then so be it. I just wouldn't expect a fruitful discussion. You should really expect nothing from him from here on out. He'll do what he will do and you will do what you will do. Know what I mean?

 

Plus, you give him a head`s up for nothing if u tell him tonite, that ain`t smart. Your attorney might have another suggestion, like finding out what he does after you come home from work. Are you trying to self -sabotage yourself, or possibly the baby`s future? You mentioned this guy`s possible influence when baby becomes a young man, not us. Here we go again, half cocked.

 

Stop panicking, and act normal before you blow any option to find out if there is anything more serious that you and the Court should know. Forget about the new living quarters for now...that is the least of your concerns. If Child Protection Services read your theads they would be on an investigation like white on rice. You have to be cool. You got this far. Keep it zipped. Play nice-nice, even if it makes you puke.

 

See a doctor tomorrow, get something to calm down. You cannot screw up at work - you have to have your act together for your line of work, not up at 3:30am. You will mess up or break eventually. He is an easy mark, simple pattern for PI. But you said something about computer spying, so the gig may be up. Who knows. It is counter-intuitive, I realize, but only hope to gather intell.

 

Evidence is imortance in the event things are much worse than you imagine. I don't have to tell an attorney that a case has to be supported for supervised visitation, do I? You want to learn any untowards conduct aprori, not after a divorce and custody arrangement has been settled. Once a person with problematic behavior is discovered, they obviosly are going to lay low, and be more cautious (I.e., difficult to catch), that is, if there is a problem you need to know about. Your current discovery warrents further research.

 

I do have a theory, but I have to think about it, and I have a bad migrain today. Everything will be fine. Bless you hon. Yas

 

sorry mistakes, new device.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Yasuandio

[jakrbbt]

I'm thinking that after I tell him/file, he will immediately refuse to watch our child while I'm at work. He will say something to the effect of: "You don't get the benefit of a stay-at-home husband if you refuse to support one." So I'll have to find child care immediately, get on the docket asap for a custody/visitation plan, and possibly take some time off work. I can't take too much time, I have a very big project that I'll start working on in Mid-October or early November.

 

I have found the perfect, perfect place: safe, lovely, great space for child to play, close to grandparents. I will be as happy there as I could be anywhere during a divorce. I suppose I could secure the place, ask my landlord to keep mum and then just file for divorce. But I still don't want to be a dic, and the least I could do is warn him the day before.

 

I'll get an appointment with my attorney. Gotta go fill out that application for the rental.

[2sunny]

Then look into child care options in case you need to make a quick decision.

[jakrbbt]

Well, I toured a day care center and can do that, after taking time off work so I'm not dropping him off all day the first day. A friend with toddlers says she can help in an emergency. His mother may help some.

 

I am thinking of renting that lovely place that is near the top of my (reasonable) budget. I was planning to rent a cheaper place, but they are all fairly depressing or have no yard for my son, who LOVES to play outside. My thinking on renting cheap depressing place was: Then I could help my husband out a bit after the divorce, and buy second sets of baby's things for husband's place.

 

Now I am thinking that the longer I help him, the more he'll be helpless. Of course I'll budget for possible small child support/spousal support. But I can't owe tons of child support if I am also having the child enough days to have to pay day care and have to buy most of the kid stuff. So it should even out. No budgeting extra money to help him.

 

It seems cold-- he is my son's father! But there are too many strings attached when I help him and he can do better helping himself. Of course I won't hinder him either, and the good thing is that i can handle taking our son as much as he needs in the beginning while he gets on his two feet. Heck, I'll even store his stuff in my garage if he needs and I will write great job references for him, he is an awesome employee when not being house-husband mad at wife and refusing to work.

 

He's sitting with our friend in the other room talking. I guess I'll tell him tomorrow. That way I can get on the phone with the lawyer and try to have the divorce petition ready to go.

[2sunny]

Get the D petition ready anyway. Show all your new and higher expenses. Show wanting your son as much as allowable/possible.

 

Then file it! You can have it served anytime - and that is when the clock starts ticking.

 

Your H can look after himself. No, don't write him a recommendation. You're not his mother, remember?

 

Best for you to look after yourself and your son.

 

I agree that a bright home environment is much more happy than dark and gloomy.

 

 

Do you think it's possible your H has had any alcohol and/or drug issues?

[jakrbbt]

 

 

Do you think it's possible your H has had any alcohol and/or drug issues?

 

You mean recently? He was an active alcoholic before I met him, did AA and stopped going a few years ago but never relapsed with alcohol that I know of. Also became very into weed, couldn't keep it at a minimum so quit that too.

[beach]

You mean recently? He was an active alcoholic before I met him, did AA and stopped going a few years ago but never relapsed with alcohol that I know of. Also became very into weed, couldn't keep it at a minimum so quit that too.

 

Any possibility he's dabbling in anything else now? Even prescription drugs?

 

His lack of concern for your feeling and no motivation to be a working man and leaving as soon as you're home seem like red flags to me.

 

Start checking.

[Yasuandio]

Any possibility he's dabbling in anything else now? Even prescription drugs?

 

His lack of concern for your feeling and no motivation to be a working man and leaving as soon as you're home seem like red flags to me.

 

Start checking.

 

Announce Divorce + Intent to Move = Clean Up Act Fast = Checking Thrarted

 

Announce Divorce + Intent to Move + No Funding Extra-curricular = Ticked Off × Hide Evidence ÷ 50% Unsupervised Time With Child = Unpredictable

 

Perv/Weird + Substance = Unpredictable

 

Yas

[2sunny]

You mean recently? He was an active alcoholic before I met him, did AA and stopped going a few years ago but never relapsed with alcohol that I know of. Also became very into weed, couldn't keep it at a minimum so quit that too.

 

Seems he may be just switching his brand of altering around.

 

So if not alcohol then weed? And now no weed but what next?

 

Sober means UNALTERED. Look to see if he has a new avenue if getting altered.

 

Tell us why a friend is staying at the house now? Are you supposed to allow TWO people to mooch off of you at this point?

[jakrbbt]

Seems he may be just switching his brand of altering around.

 

So if not alcohol then weed? And now no weed but what next?

 

Sober means UNALTERED. Look to see if he has a new avenue if getting altered.

 

Tell us why a friend is staying at the house now? Are you supposed to allow TWO people to mooch off of you at this point?

 

On the substances: I had that thought long ago. He has had a couple small surgeries twice in the past couple years, for which the doctor prescribed meds. Doc prescribed habit-forming meds for my pain after childbirth too-- I only ever took one dose. All the rest of the pills are still in there. Husband took his pain meds for a day or 2 after his surgeries, and I have checked a few times-- all the rest of the pills are still in the bottles. So if he's using meds, it isn't those.

 

 

He did form a strong and annoyingly expensive, smelly addiction to cigars while I was pregnant but quit that cold-turkey (finally) when baby was just under a year old. He was very cranky while smoking the cigars-- it was just like an alcoholic drinking, very weird. He was actually less cranky when he quit.

 

My impression is that he is really struggling to keep sober and that his effort-- or however he is going about the sobriety--- is taking up as much energy and time as being an active alcoholic would. I have heard the term "dry drunk." I can try to investigate more, certainly. But I've discovered that when he leaves the house, most the time he's going to his sister's. Sometimes he's taking drives in his project car out on a pretty highway and not stopping.

 

The friend: The friend is having as good an influence on husband as probably anyone could at this point. He does a LOT of favors for us, buys his own food and some for us, is a great handyman, peaceful intelligent multi-skilled person, and very interesting conversationalist, (which I need), and will insist on paying rent if he stays for long. Responsible non-substance-using job-having guy who just moved back to the area. He made it clear that he is my friend as well as, and separately from, being my h's friend. Things are a lot better with him here. His presence here would not stop me from divorce. Any other friend would not be a good idea. But this guy is not mooching. I do wonder whether my husband wanted to invite him long-term so as to stop me from leaving, but if so, that won't work.

[2sunny]

Maybe that friend can rent with your husband when you move?

[BetrayedH]

Well, I toured a day care center and can do that, after taking time off work so I'm not dropping him off all day the first day. A friend with toddlers says she can help in an emergency. His mother may help some.

 

I am thinking of renting that lovely place that is near the top of my (reasonable) budget. I was planning to rent a cheaper place, but they are all fairly depressing or have no yard for my son, who LOVES to play outside. My thinking on renting cheap depressing place was: Then I could help my husband out a bit after the divorce, and buy second sets of baby's things for husband's place.

 

Now I am thinking that the longer I help him, the more he'll be helpless. Of course I'll budget for possible small child support/spousal support. But I can't owe tons of child support if I am also having the child enough days to have to pay day care and have to buy most of the kid stuff. So it should even out. No budgeting extra money to help him.

 

It seems cold-- he is my son's father! But there are too many strings attached when I help him and he can do better helping himself. Of course I won't hinder him either, and the good thing is that i can handle taking our son as much as he needs in the beginning while he gets on his two feet. Heck, I'll even store his stuff in my garage if he needs and I will write great job references for him, he is an awesome employee when not being house-husband mad at wife and refusing to work.

 

He's sitting with our friend in the other room talking. I guess I'll tell him tomorrow. That way I can get on the phone with the lawyer and try to have the divorce petition ready to go.

 

This all sounds smart to me. Good thinking.

[Yasuandio]

This all sounds smart to me. Good thinking.

 

No one can say Jkrbbt ain't made Grand Huge Progress in a mighty short time. Bravo. Yas

[jakrbbt]

Dream house got snatched up hours before I could. Oh well: I have an application in on another lovely place and will negotiate rent.

 

I told my husband two nights ago that I didn't think I could do this anymore, and wanted a divorce. At first he acted like I hadn't said it or meant it. Then I told him I planned to move out in December. He knew I meant it.

 

We had a very long and candid talk. He made some very good concessions that I must say I am impressed with. He apologized for the photographs, explained that he didn't mean to humiliate me, understood that he was wrong to do it and told me he has stopped because of that and will not ever do that again. He told me he does not text his sister or that friend very often and that they do not talk about me . . . not sure I believe him completely. He said we will make the house more mine and make it more comfortable for me and that he would step up more as a husband and father. No concessions about work so far, and that is a biggie for me.

 

I told him that I would have to think about it. Divorce papers are ready to go when I need them.

 

He has spent the last two days really stepping up and being the kind of stay-at-home dad that I would be happy to be a sole-breadwinner for (if it lasted). Our baby had night terrors last night and my husband helped out but also deferred to me in what to do-- a first. He has been patient, polite, funny, fairly interesting, and helpful. And I have been so happy and relieved to have a more healthy household even for a couple days, that I ran my old personal best mile and wrote a poem.

 

But I don't trust it will last, sorry to say. I don't know how long to give it. I must confess, the status quo right now is allowing me to focus on my work and I can feel the health coursing back through my blood. I am tempted to use this status quo to get through the year: I must meet some production requirements at work if I want a at promotion.

 

Is that using him and his fear of divorce?

 

I mean, it is possible we could reconcile. But there is zero chance we will reconcile without my dealbreakers being met, esp now that I am willing to divorce and no longer afraid of it.

 

I cannot get over the past betrayal where he mis-"reported" and totally twisted something I told him, in confidence, to his family so that he could stir up some drama with them. Can't see the relationship with his sister being a non-issue forever. Can't imagine him ever taking very good care of his health or reading a book or providing for our family. (Though a good, responsible SAHD does provide for his family to be sure-- so there is that possibility.) And finally, hugely, I don't know that I will ever trust him much.

 

No, I am not very hopeful. But my attorney is fine with me giving him a chance, the next couple-few months (if I give it that long) will not make a difference legally. Why is he doing this so late?

Edited September 24, 2014 by jakrbbt

[beach]

Why is he doing it?

 

Because you pay his way to stay home and not work. Because he disappears to do what he wants.

 

Because when you divorce him he will have to work - a LOT - and he doesn't want that.

 

 

Keep your eyes open. As long as you're ok with him using you then it should be ok.

[jakrbbt]

Why is he doing it?

 

Because you pay his way to stay home and not work. Because he disappears to do what he wants.

 

Because when you divorce him he will have to work - a LOT - and he doesn't want that.

 

 

Keep your eyes open. As long as you're ok with him using you then it should be ok.

 

Yeah, that's about what I thought. The mirage was nice. We are back to square one, were either he gets a job and we continue to improve interpersonally or I file for divorce. I'll make that clear, IN CASE I haven't. I was hoping he'd step up as a true SAHD but even if he does, the trust is broken here. So deflated.

[heartshaped]

Why is he doing this so late?

 

Well, it's either as the previous poster said or it could be that though your husband is a flawed human being he loves you and his marriage and family are important to him.

 

He realizes now that you mean business. This isn't empty talk and he knows it and perhaps he's willing to do the work to make your marriage work. Does that make him a saint? No. Does that mean your marriage will work? No.

 

The question is are you willing to make your marriage work? Do you even want it to?

 

If you do, I would suggest marriage counseling and individual counseling and not only that, but you need to outline to him your expectations of him and this marriage. I would even put dates on it. Like if you expect him to get a job you expect him to find one in this amount of time. And this reconciliation could be a trial period say for six months or so at which point you could reevaluate and if the two of you were making progress continue on.

 

The truth? These issues aren't going to fix themselves or magically disappear overnight, but if you are both willing to work on your marriage I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot.

 

He's never going to be perfect and neither will your marriage, but the two of you might be able to happy together and I think that's what should be aimed for if possible.

[jakrbbt]

Well, it's either as the previous poster said or it could be that though your husband is a flawed human being he loves you and his marriage and family are important to him.

 

He realizes now that you mean business. This isn't empty talk and he knows it and perhaps he's willing to do the work to make your marriage work. Does that make him a saint? No. Does that mean your marriage will work? No.

 

The question is are you willing to make your marriage work? Do you even want it to?

 

If you do, I would suggest marriage counseling and individual counseling and not only that, but you need to outline to him your expectations of him and this marriage. I would even put dates on it. Like if you expect him to get a job you expect him to find one in this amount of time. And this reconciliation could be a trial period say for six months or so at which point you could reevaluate and if the two of you were making progress continue on.

 

The truth? These issues aren't going to fix themselves or magically disappear overnight, but if you are both willing to work on your marriage I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot.

 

He's never going to be perfect and neither will your marriage, but the two of you might be able to happy together and I think that's what should be aimed for if possible.

 

I do appreciate this point of view and so want to believe it. But we have done MC(four counselors, on our fourth now ongoing) and I have done individual counseling. He simply disagrees about working, but as you suggest, perhaps now he somehow knows that I mean it when before he did not. And again, IF I trusted him better, then a supportive SAHD role-- while not what I had wanted-- could work, rather than him working.

 

At this point I almost need it to be "fixed magically overnight" because it has simply gone on too long and festered too festering-ly and I am in a kind of emergency mode to get out of the toxic household or make it non-toxic.

 

However, that does not mean that h is not simply a flawed person who wants the m to work and has maybe made mistakes, just like we all do. Do I want to work on it? The sad answer is: Only after I have some trust. I feel afraid and used and "working on" things may mean digging deeper into the hole that I, the rube, have been living in.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's common for spouses to dig in their heels on certain issues until they really realize that they're going to lose their marriage over it.

 

My wife told me that she wanted to separate. It was out of the blue. She listed a half dozen things that were big issues for her. I immediately set to work on them, big time. It was a big wake up call to me. In the end, it turned out she was having an affair but my point is, she didn't communicate exactly how big the issues were to her and I didn't take them seriously enough until she was talking separation. This is why I've so frequently recommended you give your H an ultimatum. He needs to know that you're not kidding; we either fix these things or we're divorcing. In your case, it may take the actual filing of papers for him to understand that you're not just bluffing or using the threat as a manipulation tactic.

 

If I had a recommendation, it would be that you list your dealbreakers. Make it crystal clear. Write them down. Put a timeline on it. Make sure they're actual dealbreakers, not just things you want, because if he fails on any of them, you need to follow-thru with divorce. If you don't, your list will obviously be seen as optional rather than mandatory.

 

Just my $.02

[Turtles]

I do appreciate this point of view and so want to believe it. But we have done MC(four counselors, on our fourth now ongoing) and I have done individual counseling. He simply disagrees about working, but as you suggest, perhaps now he somehow knows that I mean it when before he did not. And again, IF I trusted him better, then a supportive SAHD role-- while not what I had wanted-- could work, rather than him working.

 

At this point I almost need it to be "fixed magically overnight" because it has simply gone on too long and festered too festering-ly and I am in a kind of emergency mode to get out of the toxic household or make it non-toxic.

 

However, that does not mean that h is not simply a flawed person who wants the m to work and has maybe made mistakes, just like we all do. Do I want to work on it? The sad answer is: Only after I have some trust. I feel afraid and used and "working on" things may mean digging deeper into the hole that I, the rube, have been living in.

 

Why do you need it to be fixed overnight? Take your time. Get your work promotion. He won't change overnight, that's for sure, nobody does.

[jakrbbt]

Yeah, I was using the overnight language almost tongue in cheek in response to another post: it has been years. Years with long months of talking and counseling. And now we're all toxic and unhealthy and baby is getting affected. So while it may take time, at some point enough time has passed. If something takes two years, then the seven hundred twenty-ninth day becomes the "overnight" point.