Chronic avoider spouse, no sex, joint divorce?

[jakrbbt]

Why do you need it to be fixed overnight? Take your time. Get your work promotion. He won't change overnight, that's for sure, nobody does.

 

But I appreciate the point of view that it's reasonable to focus right now on my promotion, while at the same time giving h a chance to change.

[Turtles]

Yeah, I was using the overnight language almost tongue in cheek in response to another post: it has been years. Years with long months of talking and counseling. And now we're all toxic and unhealthy and baby is getting affected. So while it may take time, at some point enough time has passed. If something takes two years, then the seven hundred twenty-ninth day becomes the "overnight" point.

 

Definitely, I think it's smart to set yourself a deadline at which point you re-evaluate the status quo... it's too easy sometimes to become complacent and allow the situation to fester because it's the path of least resistance right now.

[2sunny]

It's possible that filing those D papers may give him incentive to get a job.

 

Then when the lease is up you can decide to move or go month to month.

 

I don't think he's going to get motivated to work until he knows for sure you intend to divorce if he doesn't.

[jakrbbt]

I think it's common for spouses to dig in their heels on certain issues until they really realize that they're going to lose their marriage over it.

 

My wife told me that she wanted to separate. It was out of the blue. She listed a half dozen things that were big issues for her. I immediately set to work on them, big time. It was a big wake up call to me. In the end, it turned out she was having an affair but my point is, she didn't communicate exactly how big the issues were to her and I didn't take them seriously enough until she was talking separation. This is why I've so frequently recommended you give your H an ultimatum. He needs to know that you're not kidding; we either fix these things or we're divorcing. In your case, it may take the actual filing of papers for him to understand that you're not just bluffing or using the threat as a manipulation tactic.

 

If I had a recommendation, it would be that you list your dealbreakers. Make it crystal clear. Write them down. Put a timeline on it. Make sure they're actual dealbreakers, not just things you want, because if he fails on any of them, you need to follow-thru with divorce. If you don't, your list will obviously be seen as optional rather than mandatory.

 

Just my $.02

 

Great suggestions. For some reason I didn't see this post earlier, and it is good to have the perspective of someone who has been in H's position. I will list the deal-breakers in written form if I have to. I am now finally ready to accept a "No, I won't be meeting your dealbreakers." Better than no answer at all.

[jakrbbt]

Time to vent. I'm downstairs freezing my butt off working late while h sleeps in master bedroom that he claimed for himself. That's where the bathtub is, but I can't go in there to take a hot bath bc he'll wake and be super upset. Baby and I should be in there, instead of spare room off the kitchen where baby wakes at kitchen sounds and so h makes me tiptoe and not make any food when baby sleeping. His reason for grabbing the master bed? "I moved the furniture in and it was hard and so I get to pick the room I want." The furniture is all his--he stored mine in the garage! And I never wanted him to be the mover, he insisted.

 

He's a selfish dic that I can not admire. Sorry dumb vent bit is late. MUST remind myself that I AM willing to divorce and I respect myself.

[tippydog90]

Jakrbbt,

Why don't you just divorce this man? You are just enabling him, seriously. Kick him out of the master bedroom that YOU pay for with your earnings. Rent that house and get out of this marriage. You will be able to focus on your promotion and everything you need to much better once you are out of this strange, toxic relationship. This man isn't going to work on anything because he doesn't HAVE to, nor does he WANT to. Get rid of him, seriously. He is NOT worth it.

[Yasuandio]

Jakrbbt,

Why don't you just divorce this man? You are just enabling him, seriously. Kick him out of the master bedroom that YOU pay for with your earnings. Rent that house and get out of this marriage. You will be able to focus on your promotion and everything you need to much better once you are out of this strange, toxic relationship. This man isn't going to work on anything because he doesn't HAVE to, nor does he WANT to. Get rid of him, seriously. He is NOT worth it.

 

Here's my two cents for what it's woth. Reading this post about the young lady working late in discomfort really galled me.

 

I propose a compromise.

 

She has this promotion to focus on till December - this is a serious career consideration, and in her field, there in no room for error.

 

Either just get through it, and let it be one of the issues in the the divorce (hardship on child - how selfish can a person be?). NOW -- that is just assuming there might be an issue in the divorce.

 

On the otherhand, you could list that the master be set up with your furniture by x date, by husband while he is applying for jobs. (A test of sorts). Doesn't mean it will make a difference - so, that makes me lean towards an easier move since your things are still packed and ready to go. It would be interesting to see what he does with it just to be mean (sorry, that's my evil side talking - I'd like to meet him in an alley, actually).

 

Get a good space heater honey. This is an outrage to hear about. Yas

[2sunny]

Good God, YOU pay and YOU suffer? That's backwards. Why live in fear for his anger?

 

I'd file - at the very least he might be on good behavior through the next few months.

[Turtles]

Good God, YOU pay and YOU suffer? That's backwards. Why live in fear for his anger?

 

I'd file - at the very least he might be on good behavior through the next few months.

 

That sounds good, at least he knows you mean business. If by some miracle he turns into a gentleman by January (or whatever your deadline is) all you lose is the filing fee.

[stillafool]

Time to vent. I'm downstairs freezing my butt off working late while h sleeps in master bedroom that he claimed for himself. That's where the bathtub is, but I can't go in there to take a hot bath bc he'll wake and be super upset. Baby and I should be in there, instead of spare room off the kitchen where baby wakes at kitchen sounds and so h makes me tiptoe and not make any food when baby sleeping. His reason for grabbing the master bed? "I moved the furniture in and it was hard and so I get to pick the room I want." The furniture is all his--he stored mine in the garage! And I never wanted him to be the mover, he insisted.

 

He's a selfish dic that I can not admire. Sorry dumb vent bit is late. MUST remind myself that I AM willing to divorce and I respect myself.

 

My goodness how do you even stand to be around this man? He doesn't even care enough about you and his baby to make sure you two are the most comfortable. Why haven't you made him move out of the master br for you and your baby? Divorce him already, he's never, ever going to change.

[Yasuandio]

Good God, YOU pay and YOU suffer? That's backwards. Why live in fear for his anger?

 

I'd file - at the very least he might be on good behavior through the next few months.

 

Any outcome in the likes of forced "good behavior" due to consequences of divorce (i.e., loss of potential support and/or long term alimony based on the future length of his so-called SAHD status), will only bring on further hate, anger, and seathing. What the heck is the difference? Screw it. She and baby got along this far in these conditions, a few months ain't gonna make a difference.

 

might as well have it as drama free and stress free as possible and play nice-nice till she gets her promotion. Then, have then new place rented and ready, and drop the bomb once you have left the stage. Done and done, period. End of story.

 

if he gets a job as agreed in writing - great! That proves he can do it! So there. Either way, its a win-win. If he chooses not to get decent employment per written agreement -- well, then he broke his agreement. If he does find employment, oh well. Only make agreements about what he is going to do that is acceptable. In other words, you are going beyond wa

hat is expected of one person in the marriage - and maybe the document should state an agreement to that fact, as well as promises not to make unauthorized photos of you to distribute, etc., etc., ect. You feel me, Esq.?

 

Get cha a big bowl, some nice body wash, and do sponge baths in your little room. Stock up on energy bars and drinks, perhaps get yourself a little dorm fridge for the winter. You'll make make it, hon. We gals are tough. I found a great little Microwave fot $13 bucks at Goodwill for my Rental house. Stay warm! Yas

Edited September 25, 2014 by Yasuandio

[jakrbbt]

For me this was a very big step: I put down a deposit on a rental. Not my dream house that was $1550, worth a lot more, and probably too big for me and baby-- but instead, a cute little just-under $1200 house with lovely tile floors and everything we really need, in a great neighborhood that was my old stomping grounds in high school. And it has radiant floor heat and a bathtub that NO ONE can kick me out of.

 

I even saw the super-wonderful mother of my old high school boyfriend walking down the street as I was driving to view the house.

 

I have not told my husband. But when we fought and lost footing after the attempt at reconciling, I realized I am so done with this. It was not the fact that we were backsliding-- it was the nature of the fights. He doesn't have enough goodwill toward me to do a tiny gesture of kindness, and everything has to be conditional.

 

So goodbye, I am off to build a house of unconditional love even if it's just me and half-time son. I do have several siblings, some are in town, and some friends I've lost touch with out of embarrassment.

 

I had a long talk with my boss today-- not about the divorce, just work stuff-- and realized that I'll be fine at work even through the divorce. Had my 6-month review 2 days ago too and it went quite well.

 

My appointment with attorney is Wednesday. I am contemplating a separation at first rather than D so that H can stay on my health insurance for a while. Not sure whether that would be ok, but my lawyer will know what to advise.

 

I am still dreading suddenly placing baby in day care. But you know what? My son can handle it. Why assume he can't?

 

Still fearing that H will just fall apart but will do so while with baby. Today he left to work his part-time job out of town. He had his friend-- the one who texted him about "gathering the troops"-- watch our son. She took him to my husband's sister's house all day, unbeknownst to me. I never heard one word from either of them, no communication about what they did, how it went, whether my toddler ate or napped or anything. My mother came to watch him for the last hour or so before I came home, and the "friend" just dropped him off at our house. Baby seems fine, if hungry and tired, but I don't like the weird non-communication. Seriously, babysit a toddler and totally give his mother the silent treatment and don't even call or text her at all? Remove him from the house all day without informing his own mother? (The reason I know he was gone all day was that our houseguest/friend told me.) I am very angry over that, and will bring it up with my attorney.

 

Well, soon I'll have to let H know that I'm moving out for sure. I take possession of the new place Friday.

 

I will miss this place and the old life, sick as that sounds. But I am clear in my mind now. I'll buy some cheap knock-off Turkish rugs, a couple paintings, and put up the old books.

[2sunny]

I'd be mad too not knowing what the plan was for my son. It seems H communicates more with his "friend" than with you. That's not right.

 

 

And don't "separate" it just leaves you in limbo and makes it easy for H to keep Bering unemployed. IF he needs insurances so badly he will get a JOB and pay his insurance. Your too worried (again) about making HIM comfortable. That's his to do; not yours. You're very codependent. Have you gotten help for that? File for divorce so YOU can move forward! Especially if you meet someone new in six months or so YOU want to have the divorce finalized. It's a mental thing actually getting a relationship finished. It gives YOU a chance at a fresh, new beginning.

 

The new place sounds great!!! And moving soon sounds terrific! And daycare sounds best since your H doesn't let you know what's planned for the child.

 

 

I think counseling could help you at this point. Ask for help with your codependent mindset and work on what healthy balance should look like. That way you won't be inclined to choose the same for yourself in your future. That way you can consider choices in your best interest.

 

Glad you're moving forward and being strong! I'm proud of you for taking action!!!

[BetrayedH]

My situation is only anecdotal but unless you truly fear your son will come under physical harm when under the care of your STBX, I would consider letting go of what happens there. You cannot control it.

 

In my case, my ex and I certainly have different focuses. My household is run differently than hers. We have different values. We ended up at 50/50 custody and frankly, I just use my time in an effort to counter the influence of her and her family. They are materialistic, overly protective, judgmental of others, and hide behind religion. I endeavor to teach my children wisdom and basic courtesy (and I'm certain that my ex doesn't approve of all of my methods). She cannot stop what I am doing and I cannot stop what she is doing. I can only make my time count. As does she. We are both fairly involved with school/homework and communicate well on that as well as the childrens' health but even those efforts have discrepancies.

 

In the end, both parents care for their children and keep them safe. Beyond that, it's little business of my exwife's what I do here, nor is it my business what she does there. Some people manage to coparent differently. I'm good with healthy detachment.

 

Anyway, it's an angle to consider and one that I suspect your husband has already embraced.

[KarlaB]

Jak that is awesome you have some place to go! Fingers crossed I only have 6 more days in this house. We are still civil and have had fights, it will be nice to get on with life. I am sure you will fill the same way. Enjoy that bath!!!!

[jakrbbt]

My situation is only anecdotal but unless you truly fear your son will come under physical harm when under the care of your STBX, I would consider letting go of what happens there. You cannot control it.

 

In my case, my ex and I certainly have different focuses. My household is run differently than hers. We have different values. We ended up at 50/50 custody and frankly, I just use my time in an effort to counter the influence of her and her family. They are materialistic, overly protective, judgmental of others, and hide behind religion. I endeavor to teach my children wisdom and basic courtesy (and I'm certain that my ex doesn't approve of all of my methods). She cannot stop what I am doing and I cannot stop what she is doing. I can only make my time count. As does she. We are both fairly involved with school/homework and communicate well on that as well as the childrens' health but even those efforts have discrepancies.

 

In the end, both parents care for their children and keep them safe. Beyond that, it's little business of my exwife's what I do here, nor is it my business what she does there. Some people manage to coparent differently. I'm good with healthy detachment.

 

Anyway, it's an angle to consider and one that I suspect your husband has already embraced.

 

This is helpful to hear. And I think that a lot can be done with one's half of the parenting time. At least I hope so.

 

 

It helps to imagine myself being happy, fulfilled, and living without a toxic relationship. I imagine being involved with the university, having interesting friends, respectful relationships, job promotion, adventures, books all around. I imagine my son coming to his mommy's house after a visit with daddy. I imagine that some of the stuff that happened at daddy's was annoying and maybe even my son is struggling with it a bit. And it's fine. We deal with it. What kid doesn't struggle with stuff? Barring abuse or neglect, I see us being ok. But when I am living in this house, I see only a future where everything crumbles, whether we divorce or not.

[2sunny]

Did you tell hubby you're moving?

[jakrbbt]

I'd be mad too not knowing what the plan was for my son. It seems H communicates more with his "friend" than with you. That's not right.

 

 

And don't "separate" it just leaves you in limbo and makes it easy for H to keep Bering unemployed. IF he needs insurances so badly he will get a JOB and pay his insurance. Your too worried (again) about making HIM comfortable. That's his to do; not yours. You're very codependent. Have you gotten help for that? File for divorce so YOU can move forward! Especially if you meet someone new in six months or so YOU want to have the divorce finalized. It's a mental thing actually getting a relationship finished. It gives YOU a chance at a fresh, new beginning.

 

The new place sounds great!!! And moving soon sounds terrific! And daycare sounds best since your H doesn't let you know what's planned for the child.

 

 

I think counseling could help you at this point. Ask for help with your codependent mindset and work on what healthy balance should look like. That way you won't be inclined to choose the same for yourself in your future. That way you can consider choices in your best interest.

 

Glad you're moving forward and being strong! I'm proud of you for taking action!!!

 

I suspect your assessment that I am codependent is right. Counseling is such a pain in the butt to set up through my insurance, but now that H and I will no longer be doing weekly counseling, at least I will have time for it. I agree that I should do it.

 

And the encouragement on the house means a lot to me. I will focus on taking care of myself and my child, and providing a stable household for him. I can no longer try to provide, essentially, two stable households for him (and for H). That has not been working out for me. I've stopped taking care of myself and thought: "Eh, what does that matter? I don't need food and exercise and sleep and novels and fun, and laughing with friends, and stuff." God, what kind of mother do I want my son to have, anyway? So yes, I do soak up the encouragement with finding a house and getting that process started.

[jakrbbt]

Did you tell hubby you're moving?

 

For some reason I can't see some posts while on my phone. Anyway: No, i haven't. I mean, I DID tell him last weekend that I was planning to move out by Dec 1 and we would need a custody plan or to go to court for one. He thought I was not serious, then I repeated it. That was when he came up with the idea to really work on things, and he put in a good effort for a few days. I still told him I was not decided.

 

He seems to believe that I will stay in this. I think he actually has hope, he keeps saying he loves me and hopes we can work (but then being awful).

 

I don't know when to tell him. I have lawyer appointment on Wed, can move into new house as early as Friday.

 

I had the little secret thought that I could spend just one or two days putting a couple rugs in my place, cooking a meal there, not telling him yet. Not so I can trick him and be mean, but really, so that the place can be mine alone. A sort of ritual.

[2sunny]

Well, you can certainly take some time to start getting yourself set up there.

 

I think once you start getting things over there you will find yourself wanting to be where you're comfortable.

 

Start gathering things of importance. You'll need tax papers for the attorney so get those. Any jewelry or things you love need to be set aside so hubby doesn't hide them. Change bank accounts into one that has your name only. You'll need to close credit cards so he doesn't spend without you knowing - and being left with that debt. Be smart! Don't leave him with ways to spend money expecting you to pay for it.

 

If you love something in the house - move it. Don't ever leave your key to the new house around - he could make a copy and go there while you're working.

 

Be ready too, that when he finds out you've moved - that he may change the locks on the place you're in now and you may not have access to get what you want out to move it. Try to think ahead of him - so you have what you need from the start.

 

I'm happy you can have a place to feel safe and happy.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah, I was using the overnight language almost tongue in cheek in response to another post: it has been years. Years with long months of talking and counseling. And now we're all toxic and unhealthy and baby is getting affected. So while it may take time, at some point enough time has passed. If something takes two years, then the seven hundred twenty-ninth day becomes the "overnight" point.

 

My "overnight" point was at Day 2018.

 

Not kidding.

[jakrbbt]

My "overnight" point was at Day 2018.

 

Not kidding.

 

Wow, 2,018 days of dysfunction and trying to make it work? That is a long time. Did you want to divorce during that time? I don't think I could go that long unless there was relatively steady progress.

[2sunny]

I got to thinking about your H. Where does he go when he leaves after you get home from work?

 

What is he doing when he's gone?

[travelbug1996]

Have you been threatening a divorce for a long time? Maybe he thinks you're just blowing hot air.

 

My heart goes out to you. I know how it feels to be in a dead end marriage. You only have one life to live and what you're doing isn't living.

 

Best wishes

[jakrbbt]

I got to thinking about your H. Where does he go when he leaves after you get home from work?

 

What is he doing when he's gone?

 

Most the time he goes to see his sister. Right now for instance, he's over there, and he'll get home while I'm putting our toddler to bed or afterward.