If a woman chokes her boyfriend - is that considered domestic abuse?

[Hollywood-Tourist]

As per my thread about my fiancé choking me, the question is:

 

 

Do you believe that if a woman chokes a man twice for what she says is 'so that he would listen to her' that this justifies her actions?

 

 

And he retaliates by punching her in self defence after being knocked to the floor & straddled by her, would that be considered reasonable defence?

 

 

Thanks

[central]

Her actions are abuse/assault.

 

His actions are self-defense.

 

If it happens again, call 911 to protect yourself from counter-accusations, and get a restraining order. Better yet, just dump her NOW before she has a chance to assault you again.

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Her actions are abuse/assault.

 

His actions are self-defense.

 

 

That's what my instincts were telling me.

 

 

I have not reported it to the Police stupidly as I fear that she will use the punched nose thing against me & that I may be charged even though it was an act of self defence.

 

 

The incident happened on the 23rd July 2014 - is it too late to report it now or is it better late than never?

[central]

You may need a lawyer to answer that question, and you may want to retain one anyway when you break your engagement and file for a restraining order. If you keep this "relationship" going, then frankly she's not the only one who needs help!

[Hollywood-Tourist]

I know in many peoples eyes it is crazy to even think of wanting to go back to an abuser but I truly love her & believe that this was a one-off.

 

 

If she ever did anything like that again then yes I'd be out of there.

[evanescentworld]

You are being very self-contradictory. On the one hand you are considering reporting the matter to the police and filing an assault charge....

 

 

Which by the way, you may well succeed in doing, because your actions were in self-defence, as you did not follow through with further physical force or restraint. Generally, if you retaliate with a blow sufficient to incapacitate your aggressor, that is classified as reasonable retaliation. If you then (metaphorically or otherwise) kick the person while they're down, that would be classified as aggression and counter-assault.

However, even if you are obligated by circumstance to land more than one blow (not the case here) you may still be deemed to have acted in a justifiable manner.

They may well ask why you waited this long, but it may not harm your cause to simply investigate the matter.

 

...On the other hand you are stating that you don't want to lose her and are willing to give her another chance....

 

Does she want that chance? has she met you half way, apologised, agreed to anger management and investigation of her actions?

if not - why give someone remorseless a simple opportunity to repeat the incident?

 

 

Of course, if you DO file charges, the reconciliation may be a moot point.

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Does she want that chance? has she met you half way, apologised, agreed to anger management and investigation of her actions?

if not - why give someone remorseless a simple opportunity to repeat the incident?

 

 

I'm not sure if she wants that chance to try again. She hasn't met me half way yet because I haven't contacted her because she has imposed a no contact rule & wanted 'space'.

 

 

She has not apologised, nor has she acknowledged any fault in the fight, she hasn't cried (like I did) & she hasn't shown an ounce of remorse for her actions.

 

 

It's not necessarily about giving her a chance to repeat her actions. I would encourage her to seek professional help in the hope it would eliminate her violent tendencies.

 

 

But I understand that if I do report her to the Police even now, then she may resent me for that & this would scupper any chance of reconciliation.

[SoleMate]

You don't need us to tell you that unprovoked, or inadequately provoked, choking is abuse/violent/criminal.

 

Do you believe that if a woman chokes a man twice for what she says is 'so that he would listen to her' that this justifies her actions?

 

No.

 

Unprovoked, or inadequately provoked, punching is also a crime. Your step by step accounts of the altercation (in different threads) have varied considerably. At first you just staggered back slightly after she choked you; now you say you were knocked to the floor and she straddled you. You previously said you choked her in self-defence; now you omit that. Your first account didn't even mention the punch you threw that bloodied her nose. Now you are focussing more on that, perhaps because there the evidence is undeniable.

 

My best advice for you is to contact a defense attorney. It's definitely not too late to report the incident. However, an attorney could advise you whether reporting it is in your best interest. It is quite possible that you could be the one charged, primarily because she is the one with a serious injury. Self-defense law varies by jurisdiction. In California, here are some pertinent considerations from the criminal jury instructions handbook:

 

The defendant acted in lawful self-defense if:

1. The defendant reasonably believed that he was in imminent danger of suffering bodily injury [or was in imminent danger of being touched unlawfully];

2. The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of force was necessary to defend against that danger;

AND

3. The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger.

 

The right to use force in self-defense continues only as long as the danger exists or reasonably appears to exist.

 

A prosecutor might ask whether you reasonably had to punch her in the nose to defend against the choking. Keep in mind, being very angry at someone for choking you is NOT considered an acceptable defense to assault charges. Factors such as your relative sizes and strengths figure strongly in the reasonableness equation.

 

You mention "retaliat[ing] by punching her in self defence". Retaliation and self-defense are two ENTIRELY different ideas. You should get clear on that before talking to the police. Many people may conclude that you did in fact punch her in pure retaliation, and the self-defense is just an after-the-fact attempt to defend the indefensible. That fits with your contradictory and waffling story. So.....just talk to a defense attorney.

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Firstly, I am in the UK so the laws you have quoted are of no use to me.

 

 

At first you just staggered back slightly after she choked you; now you say you were knocked to the floor and she straddled you. You previously said you choked her in self-defence; now you omit that. Your first account didn't even mention the punch you threw that bloodied her nose.

 

 

It was the way in which I worded it that has caused you to think there are two separate accounts now.

 

 

Yes, I did stagger back after I pushed her to the couch & not sure if I tripped on the coffee table that was next to me or if she got up in time to push me to the floor.

 

 

I didn't say I choked her in self defence, I said I found myself doing the same to try & release myself from her grip (whilst standing up.)

 

 

However, once I was on the floor (lying on my back) she then straddled me & began choking me for a second time.

 

 

It is quite possible that you could be the one charged, primarily because she is the one with a serious injury.

 

 

I would hardly call a blooded nose a serious injury. What she did to me was serious & is enough to be considered attempted murder.

 

 

I had bruises on my neck for days after the attack so that just shows how much pressure she was applying when choking me.

 

Keep in mind, being very angry at someone for choking you is NOT considered an acceptable defense to assault charges.

 

 

I wasn't angry at her for choking me, I was shocked & scared.

 

 

I think you might want to re-read the story before fabricating the story.

[Mopparon]

I had bruises on my neck for days after the attack so that just shows how much pressure she was applying when choking me.

 

I hope you took photos?

 

If not I'm afraid its just your word against hers and if she took photos of her injury that would probably get the most focus in any court case.

 

What she did to me was serious & is enough to be considered attempted murder.

 

Why on earth do you want to get back with her then?!??

 

Seriously? It boggles my mind that you would even consider it. I know you loved her at one time, but when someone nearly kills you all bets are off!!

 

Time to get away from her, as far away from her as physically possible!

 

I know heartbreak sucks and can hurt like hell, but honestly, you'll be so much better off in the long term, free to find someone with a much calmer disposition, someone who would never try to kill you like that!

 

You deserve so much better!

 

Never, I repeat NEVER go back to someone who has tried to kill you!

 

If you get away from her now and never look back you have the chance to find someone who is a much better match for you, someone who you can build a much happier relationship with, without abuse having any part in it.

[SoleMate]

UK law is very similar:

 

In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

 

was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, i.e. Was there a need for any force at all? and

was the force used reasonable in the circumstances?

Self Defence: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

 

On the other hand, if you're confident that she attempted to murder you, while you hardly injured her and acted at all times reasonably, then you should certainly report this to the police without hesitation. This may help: Sentencing Manual: Offences against the person: Assault occasioning actual bodily harm

[Hollywood-Tourist]

I hope you took photos?

 

If not I'm afraid its just your word against hers and if she took photos of her injury that would probably get the most focus in any court case.

 

 

Yes I did take photos of my injuries immediately. I don't think she did because she isn't that intellectual to consider doing that.

 

Why on earth do you want to get back with her then?!??

 

 

Because I really do love her despite what she did. This was the first ever physical fight we've ever had in the 2yrs we've been together so I think it would be silly to throw away an otherwise great relationship away over something like this that can ultimately be talked about & acted upon.

 

If you get away from her now and never look back you have the chance to find someone who is a much better match for you, someone who you can build a much happier relationship with, without abuse having any part in it.

 

I hear what you are saying & do take on board the facts but I know myself that I want her back more than anything.

 

 

I am becoming more miserable, withdrawn, sad & depressed by the day and know for a fact that I do not want any other woman.

 

 

I have established a great relationship with my fiancé & want to resume what we had, obviously once we deal with the issues.

[CarrieT]

Honestly, my heartfelt suggestion is - instead of beating this dead horse - would be to

.

[dragon_fly_7]

If a bf ever try to hurt me and his ball was available, I would kick him there as hard as I can and would careless about causing damages. I would then feel nothing but hatred towards him and reported him ASAP. Same thing can be said about your self-defense punch when she was choking you. What she indeed did was attempted murder. You even said it you weren't angry but scared.

 

I have no idea how can anyone love a bf/gf that tried to kill them. I think you should get away from her at this instance before this happens again or she actually does something to you while you're sleeping (by then, you might even be incapacitated). I've seen a couple of these cases on investigation discovery channel and they end up badly.

[Mopparon]

Yes I did take photos of my injuries immediately. I don't think she did because she isn't that intellectual to consider doing that.

 

 

 

 

Because I really do love her despite what she did. This was the first ever physical fight we've ever had in the 2yrs we've been together so I think it would be silly to throw away an otherwise great relationship away over something like this that can ultimately be talked about & acted upon.

 

 

 

I hear what you are saying & do take on board the facts but I know myself that I want her back more than anything.

 

 

I am becoming more miserable, withdrawn, sad & depressed by the day and know for a fact that I do not want any other woman.

 

 

I have established a great relationship with my fiancé & want to resume what we had, obviously once we deal with the issues.

 

She tried to KILL you!!!

 

Sorry to keep going on about that small fact, but it seems you aren't really taking it in!

 

You don't want to be in a relationship with someone who tries to kill you! Its insanity!

 

I know how bad depression can get after a break up. I've been there, done that and laid sobbing in the t-shirt for months and months on end 3 times now, and I know its a cliche, but it does get better. Yes it can take months of depression, sadness, loneliness etc to get over it, but in the end it is worth it because you'll have the chance to meet a much better woman, someone who will truly love you and would never hurt you, let alone try and kill you!

 

My ex bf was pretty abusive and I loved him dearly, and I was desperate to get back with him just after our breakup too, anything to ease the pain.

 

But I'm sooo glad we didn't get back together now, as I know it was an incredibly toxic relationship deep down, despite all the good times we had together too. And I know now that I am soo much better off without him in my life.

 

A year after we broke up I met my new bf of 3 years and he is the kindest, gentlest, caring and loving guy I have ever met in my life!

I can't imagine life without him!

 

And even just imaging a life still stuck in a toxic relationship with my abusive ex sends shivers down my spine. I know I'd still be in a living hell of abuse and emotional torment if I'd have stayed with him.

 

Love can have an incredible powder over us, but sometimes that power needs to be resisted and fought against, because it isn't always leading us in the best direction.

 

I know its hard, believe me I know, I literally lay in bed for months on end barely doing anything after my last break up, not caring about anything and crying for hours each day, but in the long run its definitely been worth it to get to the happiest time of my life and into the best, most caring, supportive relationship I've ever had in my life!

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Same thing can be said about your self-defense punch when she was choking you. What she indeed did was attempted murder. You even said it you weren't angry but scared.

 

 

So do you mean that my self defence punch was premeditated & wrong?

 

 

I was scared & genuinely shocked, I still can't get my head round why she did this, it is so unlike her.

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Yes it can take months of depression, sadness, loneliness etc to get over it, but in the end it is worth it because you'll have the chance to meet a much better woman, someone who will truly love you and would never hurt you, let alone try and kill you!

 

 

It has just been over a month since I started to realise I was suffering from Depression & although I've never suffered from Depression before, it is a scary/isolated & frightening experience.

 

 

I don't see it that way of it being 'worth it' in the end because I know deep down that I only want my fiancé, nobody else just her.

 

 

I can't be happy anymore in life without her.

 

 

They say time is a healer but for me it isn't, every day just gets harder.

 

Nice post my the way there! :-)

[CarrieT]

It has just been over a month since I started to realise I was suffering from Depression & although I've never suffered from Depression before, it is a scary/isolated & frightening experience.

I don't think it is depression. I think it is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. You are just now coming to terms with what happened and it is shocking to you that she could behave that way.

 

I don't see it that way of it being 'worth it' in the end because I know deep down that I only want my fiancé, nobody else just her.

You are romanticizing who she was. You are not be clear-headed in who she has become.

 

I can't be happy anymore in life without her.

That simply is not true.

 

They say time is a healer but for me it isn't, every day just gets harder.

Again, healing takes time. Much more than a month. Heck, I had a 2 1/2 year relationship (the one that brought me here to LS) and the ending of that relationship took almost four years.

 

But, four years later, I met someone else. And married him (just last November).

 

Healing WILL take place when/if you stop idolizing what you had.

[dragon_fly_7]

So do you mean that my self defence punch was premeditated & wrong?

I think you got it all wrong. What I meant is this is similar to what I would have done if a bf tried to hurt me and I was absolutely scared. Nothing wrong with being scared and acting in total self-defense.

 

Premeditated would have been to continue hitting the opponent and doing it in anger. Certain men out there have that mentality that just because a woman hits them once, it gives them the license to beat her up or break her bones; or that just because they got slapped, the woman deserves an even harder slap or punch in return (done in total retaliation and not because they were truly scared like you were). These are the types that have made the word self-defense lose it's true meaning. You're certainly not like them. You were just acting in self-defense from what I'm reading and stopped it there; what she did was wayyyy beyond an angry slap. You didn't continue and you seemed really shocked.

 

I was scared & genuinely shocked, I still can't get my head round why she did this, it is so unlike her.

I'm afraid this is really like her. If you still want to help her, you can suggest a therapist for her. Edited September 2, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Hollywood-Tourist]

You're certainly not like them. You were just acting in self-defense from what I'm reading and stopped it there; what she did was wayyyy beyond an angry slap. You didn't continue and you seemed really shocked.

 

 

Absolutely. It was only at that last point that I was able to shout "get off me" just prior to her mum & dad entering the room.

 

 

I'm afraid this is really like her. If you still want to help her, you can suggest a therapist for her.

 

 

In a way I think she has shown her true colours.

 

 

But when she is ready to talk I will try & suggest that she speak to a therapist.

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Update: Incase I didn't update accordingly.

 

She has now threatened to go to the Police for 'harassment' if I keep contacting her.

 

Now she phoned me to collect my things so I collected them the next day & about a week later I texted her asking if I could collect something which she hadn't included. That's when she didn't answer my question but instead texted back & said that she will go to the Police.

 

What do you reckon?

 

This is scaring me as I've not been pestering her - is this pure vindictive manipulation?

 

Thanks

[Zahara]

This is scaring me as I've not been pestering her - is this pure vindictive manipulation?

 

Yes. It's her way of being vindictive. Partly her way of being in control and making you feel guilty/in the wrong. It's working because it's scaring you. But what does it matter. Let go of whatever remaining stuff you have with her. It's time to cut the cord and start moving on from this. No more contact. No more stuff exchanging. Block her and start grieving and healing from this.

[Hollywood-Tourist]

Yes. It's her way of being vindictive. Partly her way of being in control and making you feel guilty/in the wrong.

 

Why she's continuing to be like this boggles me, she's already got her way by calling it off, now she's basically kicking me while I'm down.

 

 

When I look back, there were times where I realised she was a controller so when you mentioned that it's about a way of being in control, that confirms to me that that's what it's all about for her.

[Zahara]

Why she's continuing to be like this boggles me, she's already got her way by calling it off, now she's basically kicking me while I'm down.

 

There is nothing surprising about her behavior. People that are self-destructive and toxic behave in a manner that isn't about you -- it's all about them and how it benefits them. She doesn't care if you're down. If it helps her feel better and in control, she'll do what she wants.

 

When I look back, there were times where I realised she was a controller so when you mentioned that it's about a way of being in control, that confirms to me that that's what it's all about for her.

 

You know it for what it is. You're starting to see it.

[Radu]

She is trying to get control, as it was stated.

 

You need to figure out [slowly], that the problem is not as much as in her [as she will be gone from your life] but in you.

Why did you not see how messed up she was earlier ?

Look at your behaviour post-incident [on this forum too], and i'm sure you will see what others have seen ... that you are part enabler. You are like candy to these ppl, as every abuser needs fertile land.

 

Look at your boundaries ...