Preset Number or Failure?

[Andy_K]

Except you don't want to fail in the squat, clean or bench press (unless you have a spotter with the bp).

 

Yep, goes without saying. Although perhaps not so obvious to those who don't do them, so well worth pointing out. A bit of common sense should make it clear what you can safely go to failure on and what you can't.

[Mr Scorpio]

The good news is that switching exercises allowed me to become exhausted and sore the next day.

 

 

The bad news is that my right hand hurts like an SOB along the outside near my pinky. Not cool. Hoping it is just a sore muscle like any other.

 

 

If my hands can't stand a 60lbs barbell curl, I don't suspect deadlifts would go to well, even if my hands are only "hooks" on that exercise.

[Emilia]

The good news is that switching exercises allowed me to become exhausted and sore the next day.

What is your goal? Exhaustion and pain don't necessarily indicate that you are successfully working towards your goals.

If my hands can't stand a 60lbs barbell curl, I don't suspect deadlifts would go to well, even if my hands are only "hooks" on that exercise.

The way to get stronger grip and forearm is by doing your lifts and farmers walk. Keep doing them and you will get stronger. Not doing them will not make you stronger. If you feel the bar starts slipping from your hands during a deadlift, switch to alternate (or mixed) grip.

[Ninjainpajamas]

When I first start working out again after a period of being out of the gym (3 to 6 months) then I have to re-calibrate and find out what my failure number is.

 

I try to setup my workout so by the time I get to the last set then I'm tired and felt like I had a really good workout, I don't go by numbers in my head...I go by feel and what feels strenuous enough to get a good workout. That's how I determine what the weight will be for each set, by pushing myself and gauging my energy level...and you know what, in the beginning sometimes I burn myself out too fast and run out of energy and that's ok at least I'm pushing myself, but I just keep at it week after week, adjust the weight accordingly, until everything comes back into line, it takes time to get the train rolling at a steady speed.

 

I actually start off really slow and build up slow to avoid injury, more than go overkill and then burn out.

 

I'll give you a quick overview of my current workout:

 

Monday - Chest day

 

(keep in mind I'm more strength oriented than physique)

 

Bench press 5 sets, I usually do a pyramid so it's something like...you always need those compound workouts, that means lifting barbell free weights that incorporate multiple muscles, it's how you get really strong overall.

 

Warm up - 145 pounds x 15 reps

First set - 185 pds x 12 reps

Second set - 205 x 10

Third set - 225 pds x 8 to 10 reps

Fourth set - 275 pds x 6 to 8 reps

Last set - 185 pdss x until failure

 

I have energy, i might even throw in a sixth set that heavier if the 6 to 8 felt easy...I might even do 10 to 12 reps on my fourth set with the energy, I adjust accordingly, I don't stick to the rule back if it's for more work.

 

I always do the first set as a warm-up set with 145 pounds, and then as I get stronger over time I'll do maybe 205 X 12, 255 x 10, 305 x 8 to 10, jump up to 385 as many times just to push that max out...then drop all the way back down to 205 to burn out the remaining energy, that's my "burn-out" set.

 

I could do more reps at a higher weight but I like to burn-out those muscles by keeping the reps higher, so It's not uncommon to do more than I should have, and will gradually go up in weight to escape injury and try to keep the reps up and the energy level in control but pushing it still...If I put too much weight on I risk burning up too much energy and slowing down the rest of the workouts...I want the muscle and energy to be somewhat synchronized so I can continue to keep going.

 

After bench press, then I'll move to something like the cables...again

 

I'll do upper and lower chest using the cables.

 

5 sets, all reps adjust by what my energy level and tension is, I do compound workouts differently than auxiliary workouts that isolate muscles, I'll start off with 15 to 20, then do 15, then 12 to 15, then 10, then end up with another high rep finish...I want to be able to finish the entire workout, but just barely but not to kill myself but close to death/exhaustion.

 

Then I'll do chest fly's, with either the machine or free weights.

 

By then I'm done with chest day which should take me 45 mins to an hour or even more as I try something new or different, sometimes I throw in another workout like incline bench, I usually switch a major compound workout each week, one week bench press, next week decline/incline...or do more reps and sets than I did last week or the week before because I noticed and increase in energy or just strength that day or just getting stronger...you know you don't always have the same energy levels each day...you have to listen to your body, and it's really important you control the weight all the way through your exercises to build that muscle, a lot of guys do the herky jerky, drop and slam weights around, you're not going to build up the muscle as well as you could be if you just cheat or take shortcuts.

.....

 

I workout 4 days a week, and I make sure that I sap the energy I do have every day so that I'm out of it by the end of it, if I do have energy left I didn't lift enough weight or do enough reps.

 

I'm known for pushing it hard and having a good energy threshold, I can manage a long workout just fine but I can still push it harder and harder until I'm burnt out. So If I can do it you can definitely do it as a beginner.

 

A lot of those people just hanging out at the gym, taking it easy and taking 5 min breaks in between sets, doing the same amount of reps and weight levels each and every week are just wasting their time and not going to get really great results.

 

The harder you work-out the better your results will be, you just have to be safe and smart about...don't try to push through injuries, if something hurts change to another workout that doesn't or just simply rest, but always perfect your technique...technique/form should be your main priority IMO. I've been nursing a shoulder injury so I had to come up with new workouts to do chest to avoid the problem area which means bench, so I stick to incline press instead for now.

 

Tuesday is shoulder and back day, Wednesday is arms day and triceps different arm stuff but also stomach day, Friday is leg day, with leg press or squats, and with power-cleans along with other things like leg curls, extensions...I always add and replace things in my workout, just to try new things and keep it new, if I don't know something I just look it up online and practice the technique and form until I get it right...it keeps it interesting.

 

I do about 4 or 5 exercises on average per day so I get a good workout in with a lot of energy pushing those weights. I ride bicycles or take walks to places for my cardio, but my intensity level is high in the gym with 30 sec rest periods for the most part, so my heart is pounding and I'm getting my cardio in pretty good already.

 

I workout with a friend so as soon as he's done I do my set, keep the pace up at the gym..you should be breathing hard and sweating, not checking your iphone or sitting around looking at everyone else.

 

As far as grip strength my workout-partner has the same problem, so I'm making sure he's doing his sets correctly and controlling the weight...especially on barbell free-weight and compound exercises. He's using gloves but he's getting stronger there, especially with curls. I really believe in compound workouts, they help you in so many ways, they're the most important lifts you'll do in the gym.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas

[Priv]

A lot of those people just hanging out at the gym, taking it easy and taking 5 min breaks in between sets,

 

Thats me! , but you need that kind of time if you want perform maximally next set with low reps.

 

 

Lately I have doing minimal work since the end of my boring but big challenge, and I am getting tired reading your workout ninja lol.

 

 

A: Bench press + Front Squat

B: Deadlift + Incline BP

C: Press + Clean

D: Squat + Pendlay row

 

 

All 5/3/1 sets and pyramid down after which results in 1 lower + upper body exercise per workout and only 10 working sets. Like I said minimal because... I don't know why, I like it and I am now 6 months in since my last reset and everything is getting heavy/pushing it. But I would not suggest copying my workout, it works for me, but is not geared towards muscle growth or being even remotely symmetrical but increasing squat, bp, and DL.

 

 

Where I to reset I would probably start doing some facepulls and goodmornings again and maybe CGBP, but not when maxing all the time.

 

 

Off days I do complexes when I feel like it, which is basically never. I am going to hide in the corner now in shame.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Priv

[Mr Scorpio]

What is your goal? Exhaustion and pain don't necessarily indicate that you are successfully working towards your goals.

 

 

My primary goal is quality of life as I approach the "wrong side" of forty and beyond. Flexibility, endurance, functional strength, and quality sleep. The benefits of exercise.

 

 

My secondary goal is to get rid of my gut, to the extent that I have one. I'm 5'11 and 163lbs right now.

 

 

My diet consists primarily of salad, smoothies, and dishes consisting of some combination of beans, brown rice, veggies, and ground chicken or turkey.

 

 

I cannot afford to consume a "high protein diet" (e.g. 1g per pound of bodyweight) at this point in time.

[Emilia]

My primary goal is quality of life as I approach the "wrong side" of forty and beyond. Flexibility, endurance, functional strength, and quality sleep. The benefits of exercise.

 

My secondary goal is to get rid of my gut, to the extent that I have one. I'm 5'11 and 163lbs right now.

 

My diet consists primarily of salad, smoothies, and dishes consisting of some combination of beans, brown rice, veggies, and ground chicken or turkey.

 

I cannot afford to consume a "high protein diet" (e.g. 1g per pound of bodyweight) at this point in time.

 

Have you thought about circuit training? There are many versions of it, people call it lots of different things but it's available in most gyms. It would give you functional strength, flexibility, endurance, help you sleep, gives you a better body shape and you don't need a high protein diet. You also don't have to worry about form and lifting.

[Mr Scorpio]

The "consultant" I spoke with yesterday recommended circuit training. Five 45 minute workouts per week. One body-part per workout. Five exercises per bodypart. No cardio save for warmup and cooldown. Roughly 120 grams of protein per day (we'll see about that). After that, HIIT and cardio if I wish to attempt to cut come Spring.

 

 

First meeting with trainer next Friday. Covering squats, deadlifts, and barbell rows.

[Emilia]

The "consultant" I spoke with yesterday recommended circuit training. Five 45 minute workouts per week. One body-part per workout. Five exercises per bodypart. No cardio save for warmup and cooldown. Roughly 120 grams of protein per day (we'll see about that). After that, HIIT and cardio if I wish to attempt to cut come Spring.

I did circuit training for about 2 years before I got into boxing and weightlifting. Resistance training can take many forms and it's often recommended that you start with something like this before getting into the big guys. One thing it gave me is the desire to maintain suppleness. I keep up yoga exercises even now after each lifting session and it makes a huge difference. I'm 42 and have been injury free (touch wood) for years despite heavy lifting.

 

Circuit training/calisthenics give you a good base and teach you how to look after your body. You also learn what you enjoy and hate in the easy way.

 

First meeting with trainer next Friday. Covering squats, deadlifts, and barbell rows.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Priv]

The "consultant" I spoke with yesterday recommended circuit training. Five 45 minute workouts per week. One body-part per workout. Five exercises per bodypart. No cardio save for warmup and cooldown. Roughly 120 grams of protein per day (we'll see about that). After that, HIIT and cardio if I wish to attempt to cut come Spring.

 

 

First meeting with trainer next Friday. Covering squats, deadlifts, and barbell rows.

 

Sounds good man. You will be scaring people in no time

[Priv]

I did circuit training for about 2 years before I got into boxing and weightlifting. Resistance training can take many forms and it's often recommended that you start with something like this before getting into the big guys. One thing it gave me is the desire to maintain suppleness. I keep up yoga exercises even now after each lifting session and it makes a huge difference. I'm 42 and have been injury free (touch wood) for years despite heavy lifting.

 

Circuit training/calisthenics give you a good base and teach you how to look after your body. You also learn what you enjoy and hate in the easy way.

 

 

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

I want to know, what is your workout schedule

[Emilia]

I want to know, what is your workout schedule

You mentioned 5/3/1 on another thread: I'm re-starting it next week but only focusing on deadlifts at the moment. I maxed out on Friday so I'm going to start with the % calculations later today plus I do 5 sets of 10 reps of around 55% of my 1RM once a week too as a supporting exercise. It has been fantastic towards giving me good form. I'm much more confident with my lift than last year when I was training with a coach. He taught me a lot and got me out of bad habits but I prefer my own pace.

 

The third day is more ad-hoc in the gym with push ups, farmers walk, RDLs, leg press, etc but I'm thinking about going back to boxing.

 

I've been focusing more on my lower body for the last 6 months as from boxing I felt I had an upper body imbalance (unusual for a woman, I know). Now it's pretty good but I want to keep gaining as well as adding boxing for the upper body rather than bench for example. Hope it makes sense

[Haydn]

Smoking 20 a day can cut your weight in no time.

 

Seriously though, Squash can be pretty intense ive found.

[Priv]

You mentioned 5/3/1 on another thread: I'm re-starting it next week but only focusing on deadlifts at the moment. I maxed out on Friday so I'm going to start with the % calculations later today plus I do 5 sets of 10 reps of around 55% of my 1RM once a week too as a supporting exercise. It has been fantastic towards giving me good form. I'm much more confident with my lift than last year when I was training with a coach. He taught me a lot and got me out of bad habits but I prefer my own pace.

 

The third day is more ad-hoc in the gym with push ups, farmers walk, RDLs, leg press, etc but I'm thinking about going back to boxing.

 

I've been focusing more on my lower body for the last 6 months as from boxing I felt I had an upper body imbalance (unusual for a woman, I know). Now it's pretty good but I want to keep gaining as well as adding boxing for the upper body rather than bench for example. Hope it makes sense

 

 

I did, the challenge. 50% > 60% > 70% of tm. The 50% was easy, 60% a challenge, but 70% was nuts. Honestly, I could not finish a single set. With many of the lifts I could not even finish 50 reps in however many sets. So not recommended .

 

 

5 x 10 is great for more time/practice on the lift. Hate the lower back pupm though. I might do it at some point again, but not going higher than 60%.

 

 

Grrrr I wish I had your problem, I am lower body dominant. Also unusual but for a man... at least I have an ass though

 

What was your max? I find it fun to hear from a woman that is serious about lifting.

[Emilia]

5 x 10 is great for more time/practice on the lift. Hate the lower back pupm though. I might do it at some point again, but not going higher than 60%.

It IS great. I'm sticking with 55% at the moment because I usually do this on Sundays and recently I have been really pushing the heavy side on Fridays so not enough recovery. Yesterday I was soooo tired after the last set. Probably hadn't had enough carbs. Once I get into the programme, I'll try to switch to 60% but not higher. Love those sets. In a twisted kind of way.

Grrrr I wish I had your problem, I am lower body dominant. Also unusual but for a man... at least I have an ass though

I just want a balanced physique really. Love having an ass too

What was your max? I find it fun to hear from a woman that is serious about lifting.

90 kgs (198lbs), just under 1.5 x my body weight. My target is 125 kgs (275lbs) 2 x my body weight. I'm hoping to do this within about 8 months?

 

I lifted 95 kgs when I used to go to a serious lifters gym but that was with a belt and I found it hard to sustain the 5/3/1 based on that. I stopped for a while for different reasons and started up again a few months ago. I reckon I lifted that 90kgs with a much better form than the 95 last year.

 

Do you have a target? Have you maxed out recently? I'm hoping not to do it for a while.

[Priv]

It IS great. I'm sticking with 55% at the moment because I usually do this on Sundays and recently I have been really pushing the heavy side on Fridays so not enough recovery. Yesterday I was soooo tired after the last set. Probably hadn't had enough carbs. Once I get into the programme, I'll try to switch to 60% but not higher. Love those sets. In a twisted kind of way.

 

I just want a balanced physique really. Love having an ass too

 

90 kgs (198lbs), just under 1.5 x my body weight. My target is 125 kgs (275lbs) 2 x my body weight. I'm hoping to do this within about 8 months?

 

I lifted 95 kgs when I used to go to a serious lifters gym but that was with a belt and I found it hard to sustain the 5/3/1 based on that. I stopped for a while for different reasons and started up again a few months ago. I reckon I lifted that 90kgs with a much better form than the 95 last year.

 

Do you have a target? Have you maxed out recently? I'm hoping not to do it for a while.

 

I do, when I joined LS last year my max DL was 285kg I believe. And it still is that or a bit higher if I tried. Pulled that 2 months ago again to check (no belt, but always magnesium). First 6 months after the breakup I didn't sleep well or eat well so had to reset twice since my lifts plummeted. You know 5/3/1 so that basically means you lose like 6 months of progress. 300kg would be my next target. I might actually pull that off on good day. I should try . But that number sounds bigger than it is. I believe I was close to 140kg when I first started lifting.

 

 

That is my only big lift though. Other targets would be finally having a bp above 150, and came close often enough but tendonites always sets in before I reach it. A press of 1x bodyweight (93kg) would be nice but I am about 20kg short of that. Squat (212.5kg) I am happy where I am after some trouble with a loose pelvis. So no injury free lifting for me

 

 

But a very nice DL you have! I can honestly say I have never seen a woman pull that (besides youtube ). I do hope you box with the man, because you could probably abuse those poor women at will

[Emilia]

I do, when I joined LS last year my max DL was 285kg I believe. And it still is that or a bit higher if I tried. Pulled that 2 months ago again to check (no belt, but always magnesium). First 6 months after the breakup I didn't sleep well or eat well so had to reset twice since my lifts plummeted. You know 5/3/1 so that basically means you lose like 6 months of progress. 300kg would be my next target. I might actually pull that off on good day. I should try . But that number sounds bigger than it is. I believe I was close to 140kg when I first started lifting.

That's very good. I probably should fiddle around on my own, do lighter weights for a while or 3 x 5 rather than move onto intermediate stuff like 5/3/1 but I need a structure I can follow.

 

Last year not only started on higher but also didn't take the 10% off and it showed. I think sometimes it's good to take a step back.

 

300kgs is pretty respectable though, there are very few gyms in London where you see people coming close to that. Or to 285 for that matter.

That is my only big lift though. Other targets would be finally having a bp above 150, and came close often enough but tendonites always sets in before I reach it. A press of 1x bodyweight (93kg) would be nice but I am about 20kg short of that. Squat (212.5kg) I am happy where I am after some trouble with a loose pelvis. So no injury free lifting for me

I found it easy to squat my own weight fast going from nothing, I did that within a month so that's fast even for beginner's initial progress. Bench and shoulders were good, probably from boxing I think on something like 42.5kgs which is 2/3rd my body weight. I'm going to pick it up again maybe but boxing interests me more than benching, to be honest.

 

I only had tendonitis in my forearms when I got into front squats and screwed up form. You probably need to leave it enough time to heal? Mine took AGES.

But a very nice DL you have! I can honestly say I have never seen a woman pull that (besides youtube ). I do hope you box with the man, because you could probably abuse those poor women at will

Thanks. Deadlifts aren't popular for some reason even though it's relatively easy to get into bigger numbers fast! My current gym is just a university's weight room and that's why I go on Fridays and Sundays, it's much quieter then. Hardly anyone does more than chest and arms though so they just stare when I lift. I don't think they realise it's easier than it looks because you push - rather than pull

 

I know some hard-hitting ladies, don't you worry but seriously, strong legs and hips help more than people realise because you get power from using your whole body rather than just from your shoulders and arms. It's kinda fun to surprise more experienced boxers though haha

[Priv]

That's very good. I probably should fiddle around on my own, do lighter weights for a while or 3 x 5 rather than move onto intermediate stuff like 5/3/1 but I need a structure I can follow.

 

 

That's why I choose 5/3/1. I have my Excel sheet, know what I need to lift and for how many reps. I love that about it. Tried other stuff but always came back to my trusty Excel sheet . Not knowing what I need to lift is ummm.... stressful. If you want to progress slower since you want to do 3x5 you could always change the weight increase by 2.5kg instead of 5kg or the other way around. For a little volume you could pyramid down and amrep the last set as well. But no matter what my fellow gym goers say, I will never believe high volume gets you strenght.

 

 

I only had tendonitis in my forearms when I got into front squats and screwed up form. You probably need to leave it enough time to heal? Mine took AGES.

 

 

Did your tendonites completely disappear? I left my shoulders alone for about 5 months last year but it always stayed tender. Everytime I reach my plateau it is slowly acting up again. Not sure what to do about it but train through it. Not going to work but I don't really see an alternative. Because if I do nothing I can't clean, press or bp which totally sucks. Besides that, it only acts up when I lift.

 

 

Bench and shoulders were good, probably from boxing I think on something like 42.5kgs which is 2/3rd my body weight.

 

Sad to say, but someday you will outpress me

 

 

Thanks. Deadlifts aren't popular for some reason even though it's relatively easy to get into bigger numbers fast!

 

 

You already outlift half the bodybuilders at my gym. They are repping 60kg which for the life of me I can't understand, and don't want to understand (though they are twice my size, which probably has something to with it but they lack one muscle, the erector spinae which they will never have; the poor bastards ).

 

 

My current gym is just a university's weight room and that's why I go on Fridays and Sundays, it's much quieter then.

 

 

I miss my student days. Those were the prime hangover days

[Phoe]

I don't have a super specific preset number. It's gonna vary depending on the body part, how much weight i'm using, what my goal is, etc. Some days I'll do my usual weight and usual reps, somedays I'll challenge myself by adding 2 more reps to each set, sometimes I'll challenge myself by upping the weight and doing maybe only 3 or 4 reps.

 

I'll do a number for the first few sets, and my last set is always to failure just to make sure I've pushed myself enough.

[Mr Scorpio]

I admit to being disappointed at being told to limit my workouts to 45 minutes, and (disappointed * 2) at being told to not do cardio. But, if that is what "science" calls for, I guess that is what will be.

[Emilia]

I admit to being disappointed at being told to limit my workouts to 45 minutes, and (disappointed * 2) at being told to not do cardio. But, if that is what "science" calls for, I guess that is what will be.

I think you should view this as an experiment, after all most of us that persist at training tend to do our own thing eventually.

[Emilia]

Did your tendonites completely disappear? I left my shoulders alone for about 5 months last year but it always stayed tender. Everytime I reach my plateau it is slowly acting up again. Not sure what to do about it but train through it. Not going to work but I don't really see an alternative. Because if I do nothing I can't clean, press or bp which totally sucks. Besides that, it only acts up when I lift.

I'm pretty sure training through is not the right thing to do. Mine came out before I started lifting so being careful and allowing it to heal wasn't a big sacrifice. It was in the forearm so I could do a lot of stretches that definitely helped.

 

One thing I disagree with on t-nation is their dismissal of stretching. It has done wonders for me and has definitely kept my tendons in better shape, as you get older, they get shorter. I'll never be convinced that stretching does nothing for you.

[Andy_K]

Well there's not a whole lot of benefit in doing strength training for more than 45m at a time (unless perhaps you're on certain supplements), but additional cardio still has benefits, though arguably it's detrimental to muscle building, so it depends what your goals are. Personally, cardio fitness is very important to me and I'm simply not going to get that if I don't do any.

 

Just keep it to HIIT rather than steady state, and do it after your strength training sessions rather than before

[HermioneG]

Well there's not a whole lot of benefit in doing strength training for more than 45m at a time (unless perhaps you're on certain supplements), but additional cardio still has benefits, though arguably it's detrimental to muscle building, so it depends what your goals are. Personally, cardio fitness is very important to me and I'm simply not going to get that if I don't do any.

 

Just keep it to HIIT rather than steady state, and do it after your strength training sessions rather than before

 

This. HIIT makes me happy, and I would never give give it up. I think the people who live with me would insist that I don't!

[Mr Scorpio]

Well there's not a whole lot of benefit in doing strength training for more than 45m at a time (unless perhaps you're on certain supplements), but additional cardio still has benefits, though arguably it's detrimental to muscle building, so it depends what your goals are.

 

No. No "certain supplements" here. I simply enjoy the process and given my work hours -- or lack thereof -- I have the time to invest.

 

My primary goal is simply to tend to my heath as I approach 40. My superficial goal is to get my body fat % back down to where it was when I was content with my appearance.

 

Just keep it to HIIT rather than steady state, and do it after your strength training sessions rather than before

 

So then, you don't subscribe to the "cardio in the morning" business? I've read that cardio immediately after lifting is a big no-no. I'm "supposed" to cool-down with a walk and then immediately pound protein?