New guy 'friend' in picture, intimacy waning

[RonaldS]

I've been hanging out with this girl for awhile. Both of us were out of 13+ yr relationships, although neither freshly so. Have a really good thing, but I don't know that it's something that's ever going to lead to marriage or anything. I've been firm that I won't remarry. She's never been married.

 

Anyway, she's pretty new in town and has few friends. A few months ago, she met a guy at her gym who has become her new running partner. She's always been upfront about this guy, and I'm not insecure, so I don't sweat her about it. We're both grown ups and I don't get in her sh*t about what she's up to.

 

Well, they seem to have developed a fairly significant friendship, and try talk quite a bit. I don't ask her about him, but she volunteers info about this stuff. Now, I'm out of town a lot, so there would be plenty of room for her to do whatever she wants without me being aware of her. On one hand, I trust her (to the extent that I trust her), but on the other hand, I'm skeptical.

 

Our intimacy has waned quite a bit over the last two months. I know correlation does not equal causation, but it's enough to make me wonder. I haven't 'confronted' her on it, but I've subtly asked about the nature of their friendship. She maintains that they're only friends. She considers us a couple, and alludes to a life together, says she loves me, yada yada yada.

 

She has nothing to really gain by having me around. She has her own money, place, is established, no kids, so on.

 

Is something rotten in Denmark?

[Radu]

Depends for how long the two of you have been together.

 

Go on the idea that for most ppl, the strength of the feelings involved in the relationship also determines the quality and quantity of the sex.

Might not be correlation all the time, but it is plenty of times.

 

In my experience, i have found 2 things true :

- women who make many male friends are not to be trusted [the reverse is also true]

- women who keep bringing up a male friend can mean slowly building infatuation, the need to cover themselves, or just plain trying to get you jealous; there can be innocent reasons too ... but taken together with your feelings, it paints a not so pretty picture

[RonaldS]

We've been 'together' for almost 2 years. It's goofy. Sort of backed into a relationship. Started out as NSA/FWB, kept our distance emotionally, but gradually it just turned into a sort of ordinary relationship. She has been pushing the relationship/couple/love thing, so it would be odd if she then decided to start something up with somebody else. But the fact of the matter is that there is a 'somebody else' in the picture, although the context of that is unclear.

 

I know that in her last relationship, she ended up cheating on her boyfriend. But their relationship was weird because he was out of the country for 5 months out of the year, so she was alone a lot. Not going to be judgemental of that.

 

Hey, I'm a big boy. If she wants something else/more, then hey....whatever makes her happy. I can deal with that and not be hurt.

 

But it almost seems like she trying to convince not only me, but herself as well, that it's nothing. But something is not nothing.

[No Limit]

If it hasn't happened yet, it surely will. This sort of developement is becoming the new "cheating 101" among fit people it seems. Not much loss for both of you though, I'm sure you'll find a new FWB partner.

[Radu]

We've been 'together' for almost 2 years. It's goofy. Sort of backed into a relationship. Started out as NSA/FWB, kept our distance emotionally, but gradually it just turned into a sort of ordinary relationship. She has been pushing the relationship/couple/love thing, so it would be odd if she then decided to start something up with somebody else. But the fact of the matter is that there is a 'somebody else' in the picture, although the context of that is unclear.

Not really as odd as you might think.

It could be that she enjoyed the chase and once you comitted, she got bored, or that she desperately wants to get married, something you are not willing to provide.

 

I know that in her last relationship, she ended up cheating on her boyfriend. But their relationship was weird because he was out of the country for 5 months out of the year, so she was alone a lot. Not going to be judgemental of that.

Then you are foolish.

She could have just ended the relationship, she could have talked it over with him, there are a ton of things she could have done different.

 

Of the little you said of her so far, it paints the picture of a woman who cannot face her problems, and lets her subconscious make the decisions for her.

Her instincts, her emotions, begone responsability !!!

 

Hey, I'm a big boy. If she wants something else/more, then hey....whatever makes her happy. I can deal with that and not be hurt.

 

But it almost seems like she trying to convince not only me, but herself as well, that it's nothing. But something is not nothing.

Welcome to the new century, where everybody is in extended-hs-kinda-but-not-really-comitted-type-relationships .

[RonaldS]

If it hasn't happened yet, it surely will. This sort of developement is becoming the new "cheating 101" among fit people it seems. Not much loss for both of you though, I'm sure you'll find a new FWB partner.

 

Not so sure about the 'not much loss' part. It's a bit more involved than a FWB situation at this point. There are feelings there. I probably could have kept some emotional distance, but she was very encouraging of developing things, so I let my guard down.

 

I mean, if I didn't care, I wouldn't start a thread about it.

 

All I'm saying is that I've been through worse and I'm not going to be devastated. I can handle that outcome. But I also don't want to jump to conclusions, but the times we have talked about it, I got the feeling that if she were up to something, she probably wouldn't tell me.

[RonaldS]

In fairness, re: the cheating in her last relationship....

 

She did end her relationship shortly after the cheating took place. I got the impression that the relationship was already long gone and she did something stupid but ended her relationship shortly thereafter.

 

I'm not dumb about this stuff. I don't jump into the pool without checking to see if there's water in it. But I did allow an emotional connection to build, based largely off her encouragement.

 

Not judging her past indescretion....I was in a similar situation, so I understand the psychology.

[preraph]

She's not necessarily cheating. But if this has become a real friendship, then it's high time she had him meet the significant other. So be very welcoming and tell her to invite him over for dinner. Ask her at that time if he is dating and what she knows about that. If he has a gf, invite her too. Invite them or him to your home for dinner and let him see how domesticated you two are and what a wonderful person you are by being a good host and finding out all about him. If he thinks he's dating her, he's not going to want to come meet you. If she thinks she's dating him, she's not going to want him to come meet you. If he makes a polite excuse, then set it out a week and say, OK, well next weekend then. Ask him what night's good for him." At that time, the ball is in their court and they will have to either come clean or come up with a better excuse.

 

If he has no date, you might also ask a woman friend of yours to the dinner in hopes they hit it off, or tell her to ask one of her girlfriends so he won't feel like a third wheel or whatever.

 

My best guess is he's a friend to her, but you know how few men truly cultivate women as friends with no thought to being more, so no telling what he's up to. But that's why he needs to see she's got a good man and if he has that on his mind, he will see he doesn't have a chance.

[RonaldS]

I know she doesn't want to get married or have kids, so I'm thinking that's not factoring in. But I guess you never know.

 

It does make sense that she got bored. I was so reluctant to commit, and she used to really show a lot of affection and attention, and was becoming open with her feelings, saying how much she loved me even though she understood Iight not be able to return those feelings the same way.

 

But then once I did open that up, she backed off. And the new 'friend' was already in the picture. So, who knows. Maybe it's both factors.

[RonaldS]

She's not necessarily cheating. But if this has become a real friendship, then it's high time she had him meet the significant other. So be very welcoming and tell her to invite him over for dinner. Ask her at that time if he is dating and what she knows about that. If he has a gf, invite her too. Invite them or him to your home for dinner and let him see how domesticated you two are and what a wonderful person you are by being a good host and finding out all about him. If he thinks he's dating her, he's not going to want to come meet you. If she thinks she's dating him, she's not going to want him to come meet you. If he makes a polite excuse, then set it out a week and say, OK, well next weekend then. Ask him what night's good for him." At that time, the ball is in their court and they will have to either come clean or come up with a better excuse.

 

If he has no date, you might also ask a woman friend of yours to the dinner in hopes they hit it off, or tell her to ask one of her girlfriends so he won't feel like a third wheel or whatever.

 

My best guess is he's a friend to her, but you know how few men truly cultivate women as friends with no thought to being more, so no telling what he's up to. But that's why he needs to see she's got a good man and if he has that on his mind, he will see he doesn't have a chance.

 

There's a lot of really good advice here, and I might try that.

 

But what do you make of the correlating loss of intimacy?

[preraph]

No way to know if the loss of intimacy is to do with him or just being together a little while. You know how passion can begin to wane as you get used to someone and the new is worn off. Is she spending less time or just less intimate? If she's moving on with this guy, I'd think you'd be seeing less of her in general. Have you two got a commitment to be exclusive? I don't really see her volunteering info about this guy if she's dating him. I feel if she's open enough to tell you about this guy, she's surely open enough to break off with you if that's what she feels like doing and not just stringing you along. It would be different if everything she did was on the sly. Then I'd say expect a breakup blitz, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Also, maybe you should take up running. Hah.

[StanMusial]

There seems to be a hazy picture of whatever "relationship" you have with her. Do you want her or not? If there's no claim there it could be she will feel free to explore other options at will.

 

Two years is a long time to carry on in such a manner... to each their own but it seems pointless to me personally...

[GoBlue]

It's hard to really know how to answer you because you are doingyour best to make it sound like you really don't care - "you are bothgrown-ups and she can do what she wants" thing - but if it didn't botheryou, you wouldn't be asking. When a woman volunteers information, seems to methat she wants to know that you care about what's going on in her life, and shewants to know that you care about what's going on between the two of you. Iunderstand the pain that comes from divorce, I went through one myself. It's theworse heartache I have ever endured and five years later I am still strugglingfinancially, emotionally, and relationally. I cannot believe, however, thatmany women want a committed relationship without the thought or hope ofmarriage. I could be wrong, but commitment is where most relationships findtheir security, and marriage is the ultimate commitment (the high divorce ratedoes nothing to remove this fact).

 

You also say that she is the one who pushed the whole couple, love, andcommitment thing. That makes it sound like you can take-it-or-leave-it and awoman certainly can pick up on that. I suppose if you are honest and upfrontwith her that's all you can do. I am still trying to figure out though if youreally care or not. I hope clarification comes to your heart and mind. Mythoughts and prayers are with you.

[RonaldS]

It's hard to really know how to answer you because you are doingyour best to make it sound like you really don't care - "you are bothgrown-ups and she can do what she wants" thing - but if it didn't botheryou, you wouldn't be asking. When a woman volunteers information, seems to methat she wants to know that you care about what's going on in her life, and shewants to know that you care about what's going on between the two of you. Iunderstand the pain that comes from divorce, I went through one myself. It's theworse heartache I have ever endured and five years later I am still strugglingfinancially, emotionally, and relationally. I cannot believe, however, thatmany women want a committed relationship without the thought or hope ofmarriage. I could be wrong, but commitment is where most relationships findtheir security, and marriage is the ultimate commitment (the high divorce ratedoes nothing to remove this fact).

 

You also say that she is the one who pushed the whole couple, love, andcommitment thing. That makes it sound like you can take-it-or-leave-it and awoman certainly can pick up on that. I suppose if you are honest and upfrontwith her that's all you can do. I am still trying to figure out though if youreally care or not. I hope clarification comes to your heart and mind. Mythoughts and prayers are with you.

 

As a Spartan, it goes against every fabric of my being to enter into a friendly dialogue with you. But after your game Saturday, I'm finding myself feeling sympathetic. I digress....

 

(j/k)

 

So, it's like this. I do care. Again, I wouldn't post a thread if I didn't. I think the point I was trying to make is that I can handle whatever outcome. You're right about the effects of divorce. And I am not in a hurry to potentially put myself back in that position.

 

Now, we never had an official 'commitment conversation'. It was implicit, as we now live together. It wasn't something that I was looking to do....it just sort of happened, and then when my lease on my place ran out, she just asked me if I wanted to move in.

 

OK, so we live together and an implicit agreement in principle to be a couple. It's just weird....we never set out to have a relationship together. It just happened.

 

Regarding marriage....her last relationship was 13 years and they never got married. She's not hungry for it like many women. And I've been straight forward and consistent from the beginning: I'm not getting married again.

 

She was always very affectionate. The last 3 months, though....the interest is definitely not there. It's at least not expressed. I did bring it up and she assured me there was no problem, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's to pay attention to actions and not words. So, I don't really know what to think. I'm not somebody who gets in people's sh*t or follows anybody around trying to see what they're up to. But all of a sudden, I am wondering.

 

Seems like a fairly abrupt change in behaviors.

[RonaldS]

No way to know if the loss of intimacy is to do with him or just being together a little while. You know how passion can begin to wane as you get used to someone and the new is worn off. Is she spending less time or just less intimate? If she's moving on with this guy, I'd think you'd be seeing less of her in general. Have you two got a commitment to be exclusive? I don't really see her volunteering info about this guy if she's dating him. I feel if she's open enough to tell you about this guy, she's surely open enough to break off with you if that's what she feels like doing and not just stringing you along. It would be different if everything she did was on the sly. Then I'd say expect a breakup blitz, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Also, maybe you should take up running. Hah.

 

Haha....she's a top flight runner. I would never be able to keep up.

 

I though about the familiarity and waning passion. I've been there before, so I know how it goes. This seemed a little more abrupt. Like even just the general kissing/making out stuff seemed to evaporate.

 

Like an earlier poster mentioned, it's almost unheard of for new guys to develop authentic friendships with a woman, especially if she's attractive. They are typically looking for more. So, maybe she doesn't want anything with him, but I'm sure he's hoping for something with her. She's hardly naive, so I doubt this guy will be able to trick her into anything. But you know how it goes....spend time with somebody, spend time with somebody, spend time with somebody....then the comfort and familiarity is there, some feelings and attraction can sneak in, and then maybe after a couple of glasses of wine, something happens.

 

I'm gone a lot and don't keep tabs on her, so the above scenario is entirely plausible.

[preraph]

Well, let's hope she just moves on from him.

[RonaldS]

A couple times recently, I've walked into the bedroom and she's sitting there texting and smiling. Then, when I come in, she quits and puts her phone down. I feel like when she's texting one of her regular friends, she'll just continue texting when I come in the room without paying any attention. I don't know.

 

Look, I'm realistic. Often times, people don't get all that they need from one person in a relationship. Maybe she just needs somebody to jibber jabber with, somebody who's not me or somebody else who knows her really well. I get that. I'm not possessive and I'm not insecure. That's why I'm not flipping out and confronting her.

 

When we have talked about it recently, she downplays their friendship. And she downplays him, talking about how weird and annoying he is and other things that are supposed to paint him in some undesireable light. Of course, that begs the question, 'Then why do you keep talking to him?'.

 

And of course, when I've stated that he's probably interested in her, she says 'No way. Not at all'. She is beautiful, sexy and intelligent....yeah, I'm sure some dude just starts hanging out with you to exchange cupcake recipes.

[GoBlue]

Easy with the whole "Saturday game" thing! LOL...My heart is still in mourning over that. At least the Lions won - I am sure that will be short lived as well!

 

The whole texting, smiling, and then stopping when you walk in the room is not a good sign. I remember the first time my then wife gave me a warning that something was going on - but I didn't realize it at that time. I walked into our bedroom and bent over to grab something out of a hamper that was next to her and she jumped up and yelled at me, "It's none of your business who I am facebooking." I wasn't even trying to look at her computer at all. As far as I am concerned, all social media, texting, and easy instant access to everybody at any time of the day is of the DEVIL! (maybe a slight exaggeration).

 

All you really can do is be honest and open. She has to make her own choices, but it doesn't mean you sit by and let her do whatever she wants. Any committed relationship (with or without the "commitment conversation") is built on trust - whether headed towards marriage or not.

 

By the way, Saturday wasn't kind to old Sparty either! I actually root for the Spartans any time they play anyone other than my Wolverines. If the current trend keeps up I will definitely be asking for Hoke's head!

[No Limit]

I'm a bit confused right now. Do you mind her making you #2 or are you ok with it? If you do mind then get your own apartment, seperate etc. Or if you don't mind it at all, you shouldn't mention it to her anymore and just smile to yourself whenever she acts all excited about her oh so secret and brilliantly hidden relationship with that guy.

 

It could happen though that she leaves you for him in case she comes to feel guilt and needs things to be more comfortable. Good luck.

[preraph]

Only thing I can say to comfort you is that she's free to go. You're not doing anything to impede her packing her bags. The door is open. So if she's still there a month from now, she wants to be with you and at that point, you should relax.

[RonaldS]

Only thing I can say to comfort you is that she's free to go. You're not doing anything to impede her packing her bags. The door is open. So if she's still there a month from now, she wants to be with you and at that point, you should relax.

 

She will still be here a month from now....it's her place.

[RonaldS]

I'm a bit confused right now. Do you mind her making you #2 or are you ok with it? If you do mind then get your own apartment, seperate etc. Or if you don't mind it at all, you shouldn't mention it to her anymore and just smile to yourself whenever she acts all excited about her oh so secret and brilliantly hidden relationship with that guy.

 

It could happen though that she leaves you for him in case she comes to feel guilt and needs things to be more comfortable. Good luck.

 

I'm confused as well.

 

I don't know anything about the nature of their relationship. I ask, non-confrontationally, and have been assured that there's no interest there. I don't really know how I feel, actually. Maybe they're just buddies. Maybe she puts her phone down when I come in because she doesn't want to devote time to him when I'm next to her. Maybe everytime I leave the state, he comes over and bangs the hell out of her. I have no idea.

 

What I do know is the following:

 

- she started telling me she loved me, saying '...even if you don't necessarily feel the same'. That made me feel comfortable in opening up, which I eventually did

 

- she's a very sexual person, and affectionate. That has died right off

 

- there's another guy

 

I know the situation should seem obvious, but it's not. I didn't ask to move in....she asked me to. I was ready to resign my lease , she talked me into moving in. She started using labels like 'boyfriend', 'couple', etc. She makes all if these comments about things she wants us to do in the future. Some things are not adding up here.

[Minnie09]

Is that the chick that you knew from a long time ago, and then you started to hang out a while ago, because you had both somehow ended up in the same city or something? I kind of remember that story, because that girl was also very attractive, and you kind of hit it off the second time around. But as "friends" ........ and she did have a bf then. Or was that not you?

 

Anyhow......seems to be a pattern, if it's the same girl. I think she likes male attention and gets bored quickly.

[RonaldS]

Is that the chick that you knew from a long time ago, and then you started to hang out a while ago, because you had both somehow ended up in the same city or something? I kind of remember that story, because that girl was also very attractive, and you kind of hit it off the second time around. But as "friends" ........ and she did have a bf then. Or was that not you?

 

Anyhow......seems to be a pattern, if it's the same girl. I think she likes male attention and gets bored quickly.

 

Yes, good memory....although the details are a little off.

 

The girl I hung out w/ as friends was a friend of my Xw's. She had a boyfriend, then she broke up with him. Not much happened between us. This girl was a friend from my hometown who ended up living a couple of blocks from me after moving here from another state (she moved here after her 13yr relationship with her bf ended). We started hanging out in a FWB capacity. That was off and on for a long time, and then we sort of just ended up together.

[preraph]

Her place or yours, the same thing is still true. If she hasn't told you to get your own place in a month, she wants you there. Now, is it possible she wants you there just as a roommate? I guess, but she'd be out all night if she was really dating other guys. And I think she'd let you know instead of reassuring you everything is okay.