New guy 'friend' in picture, intimacy waning

[PinkInTheLimo]

I agree with you. I have a small mortgage on my flat but I would never expect a man to pay towards it if he moved in, unless we had some kind of contract that he would gain something towards the end. My mortgage is small enough for me not to bother with something like that. I'd never expect him to pay 'rent' if he didn't gain anything.

 

I'd only want him to pay his share of the utility bills, food, etc.

 

Resources should benefit both, certainly one shouldn't be exploited to benefit the other.

 

That's my position as well. I have a mortgage for my apartment, so if my partner would move in with me I would never expect him to pay for my mortgage, as he will not own the apartment after having paid for it. In the same sense I would refuse to pay any kind of contribution to the mortgage of my partner were I to move in. For me a financial contribution is one of the two owns the place is only justified if it would represent part of the ownership of the place.

It's a different story if you would rent because in that case neither owns the place.

 

For the rest, sharing money for gas, water, electricity, household costs is normal of course.

[RonaldS]

It's a condo owned by her parents (not the one we're living in currently). The offer was made to both of us to buy said condo for original purchase price + renovations, which is quite a bit less than it's current value. And the neighborhood it's in is really trending upward, so that value will continue to rise rapidly.

 

The 'mortgage payments' simply go into a family trust. There will be no interest paid. So essentially, the initial investment would keep the money in the family (presumably earning interest), and it would only take us a few years to pay it off, at which point we can sell the condo and keep all of the money from the sale.

 

This was presented to us, and her mom kept saying 'then you guys can....', and 'after is paid, you guys can....'

 

But in trying to talk to her about how to attack this, she maintains that it's actually hers. She didn't want me to be a co-investor, but instead I would just pay a cheap rent. My problem with that is, if I'm paying rent and it's just going into her bank account, and I can't reasonable expect to get something in return, then that's pretty inequitable.

 

Probably doesn't matter. Between the way things are, new guys, trips to Brazil staying with exes, and now this....I can see us lasting another couple of days.

[Emilia]

It's a condo owned by her parents (not the one we're living in currently). The offer was made to both of us to buy said condo for original purchase price + renovations, which is quite a bit less than it's current value. And the neighborhood it's in is really trending upward, so that value will continue to rise rapidly.

 

The 'mortgage payments' simply go into a family trust. There will be no interest paid. So essentially, the initial investment would keep the money in the family (presumably earning interest), and it would only take us a few years to pay it off, at which point we can sell it and keep all of the money from the sale.

 

This was presented to us, and her mom kept saying 'then you guys can....', and 'after is paid, you guys can....'

 

But in trying to talk to her about how to attack this, she maintains that it's actually hers. She didn't want me to be a co-investor, but instead I would just pay a cheap rent. My problem with that is, if I'm paying rent and it's just going into her bank account, and I can't reasonable expect to get something in return, the that's pretty inequitable.

 

Probably doesn't matter. Between the way things are, new guys, trips to Brazil staying with exes, and now this....I can see us lasting another couple of days.

I have only read some of the posts on Brazil, etc but the way she is handling this financial situation would be enough for me to walk away. I would never ever trust someone like that.

[RonaldS]

Or, I can just stay with her, pay super cheap rent (FAR less than I would pay otherwise) and then just invest that extra money somewhere else. Then I would just have my money and my investments, which she would have no part of, and ipso facto, no say in how it's managed or allocated.

[RonaldS]

I have only read some of the posts on Brazil, etc but the way she is handling this financial situation would be enough for me to walk away. I would never ever trust someone like that.

 

The Brazil thing just came up a couple days ago. Not sure what to make of it.

 

The financial stuff represents an incompatibility. I do like her, we generally have a really good relationship, are great friends, etc. If we have a major incompatibility, and on top of that, there is some suspect stuff going on, hey...I'm a practical guy. I can make it work out for me.

 

I'm not going to be heartbroken at not having some perfect, amazing relationship. I'm very good at making things work out for me. If we can't work together financially, rather than being disappointed that I can't trust that person, I can be happy with the good stuff we have and make the situation work out in my best interest.

 

Look, I'm divorced with young kids. Relationships to me are just bonuses. They're not life or death.

 

I can accept the limitations I have with an otherwise good relationship, navigate those limitations, make them pay off for me, and enjoy what I do have with her,

 

Or.....

 

I can keep chasing the dream, leave her and hope at some point I can find something amazing that in reality I have a minuscule chance of actually finding. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Edited September 29, 2014 by RonaldS

[Emilia]

I'm not going to be heartbroken at not having some perfect, amazing relationship. I'm very good at making things work out for me. If we can't work together financially, rather than being disappointed that I can't trust that person, I can be happy with the good stuff we have and make the situation work out in my best interest.

 

Look, I'm divorced with young kids. Relationships to me are just bonuses. They're not life or death.

 

I can accept the limitations I have with an otherwise good relationship, navigate those limitations, make them pay off for me, and enjoy what I do have with her,

 

Or.....

 

I can keep chasing the dream, leave her and hope at some point I can find something amazing that in reality I have a minuscule chance of actually finding. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

The only thing I can tell you is that I've seen my mother struggle with the same thing with her partner and it has slowly destroyed the relationship. She is more affluent and she has kept her finances separate but over the years it prevented her from working towards a marriage with him, basically. You can't be married and have your finances separate AND not trust the other person.

 

So I suppose up to you what you want long term.

[RonaldS]

The only thing I can tell you is that I've seen my mother struggle with the same thing with her partner and it has slowly destroyed the relationship. She is more affluent and she has kept her finances separate but over the years it prevented her from working towards a marriage with him, basically. You can't be married and have your finances separate AND not trust the other person.

 

So I suppose up to you what you want long term.

 

Neither one of us wants to get married. Or, more accurately, I have stated unwaveringly from the beginning that I won't marry again, and she is fine with that.

 

I'm sure if I asked her to marry me, she would. But she knows I'm not going to. I've told her numerous times that if getting married is important to her, then she is free to find somebody who also wants to get married. Maybe that's what all this 'guy friend' and Brazil stuff is about. She is free to pursue what's best for her, and I won't get in her way. If she wants to continue on with me, its under the pretense of no marriage.

 

As for money....meh. I think we can establish that finances are to be kept separate. If we decide to jointly invest in something, we can have that discussion. But honestly, I want nothing to do with her money. I would rather take care of myself if it's going to be a problem to be financial partners.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I'm a practical guy. I can make it work out for me.

 

I'm not going to be heartbroken at not having some perfect, amazing relationship. I'm very good at making things work out for me. If we can't work together financially, rather than being disappointed that I can't trust that person, I can be happy with the good stuff we have and make the situation work out in my best interest.

 

Look, I'm divorced with young kids. Relationships to me are just bonuses. They're not life or death.

 

I can accept the limitations I have with an otherwise good relationship, navigate those limitations, make them pay off for me, and enjoy what I do have with her,

 

Or.....

 

I can keep chasing the dream, leave her and hope at some point I can find something amazing that in reality I have a minuscule chance of actually finding. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

I have to say that your approach to this relationship is so rational and pragmatic that it also comes across as cold. And maybe that is also a message that she is picking up and which makes her withdraw.

 

I personally could not be in such a relationship because it sounds more like a practical arrangement than a relationship where you are deeply in love. I would want to be a lot more important emotionally to my partner and want him to be very important to me emotionally.

[RonaldS]

I have to say that your approach to this relationship is so rational and pragmatic that it also comes across as cold. And maybe that is also a message that she is picking up and which makes her withdraw.

 

I personally could not be in such a relationship because it sounds more like a practical arrangement than a relationship where you are deeply in love. I would want to be a lot more important emotionally to my partner and want him to be very important to me emotionally.

 

Here's the thing, though. It's not my approach to the relationship as a whole. It's my approach to the non-romance side of the relationship.

 

Lovey dovey candlelight romance and passion and emotional connection is a big part of a relationship. There's also a business side; the day to day operations. The use of resources to build assets and provide comfort and freedom to both people in the relationship.

 

I've invested in her emotionally. We have....well, had....a really nice, fulfilling, loving relationship. We were good until we moved in together , and then the reality of the business side of the relationship had to become part of the conversation. Since then, everything had changed. Intimacy gone, new guys, trips to Brazil to stay with an ex, tension over money and allocating assets.

 

Why? Because the reality of a cohabitative relationship needed to be addressed and plans needed to start being formulated? She's not ready for that? Yet, she makes a big deal about wanting to meet my kids and be a part of their lives, and she pushes that a lot. Guess what....that's a far bigger deal to me than a little financial co-investment. I don't want to bring a person into my kids lives unless I feel that person could be a permanent fixture in their lives. It's unfair to the kids otherwise. So, for me to allow that relationship to form is a HUGE step, and I am....was....happy to take that step.

 

But now if she's going to exclude me from any sort of financial partnership and at the same time go hang out with her new guy and then go to Beazil and stay with her ex....I don't know. I'm kinda over the whole thing.

[RonaldS]

The more I think about this, the less I want to be involved.

 

What we have here is the issue of relationship equity. She has laid out all of these expectations and things she wants and needs...which I then work to fulfill.

 

Then, the second I present an expectation that I have....that the person I'm sharing a life with be an equitable financial partner.

 

My marriage was completely one-sided...on almost every level. Financially, my XW thought it was still 1952, where I would work and provide and she could have her nice house and stay at home with the kids. Her max annual earnings...and she has a bachelor degree...was 1/6th of my income. Then, when the marriage ended, guess what. Well, I'll give you a hint: she still doesn't have to work.

 

Now I have a situation where not only does my partner make good money, but she has other money as well. I don't want any of what she has, and I'm not trying to get ahold of her money. But when her family presents an opportunity to both of us and I'm expected to pay into it, then we better be making sound, profitable business decisions as a couple. That's my expectation....but she doesn't want to do that.

[dispatch3d]

Its not really fair to pile on ongoing issues that you just aren't dealing with. If that's the problem, the real problem is that you can't resolve the conflicts you have with her to a satisfactory level, and the actual conflicts don't matter that much. Right now you have multiple piled up issues that aren't being delt with at all and are thus not getting resolved.

 

She basically stopped having sex with you and didn't tell you why. I would call those answers bull**** excuses, and honestly they would just piss me off. To me she's just less interested in you for some reason, and then doesn't talk to you at all about what the problem is. Great, there's 0 chance it ever gets resolved doing that. I would have been voicing my displeasure with her not telling me whats going on, not so much that the sex has stopped, just that she doesn't tell me whats actually happening. Sometimes this just has no answer and whatever you just either accept the sex level and live with it or you leave.

 

Her hanging out with some guy to me is whatever. If she ends up dating him the real problem is that your relationship was ****ty and she left, and she kinda sucks so thats why she did that. If you can't trust her and constantly have to set her boundaries with other guys for her that's bull****. She should be dealing with that stuff on her own. So far its just one guy she's friends with and she occasionally goes for beer with him. You don't really have to step in. If he's obviously somewhat interested and she denies it thats super standard girl behaviour. I agree with your attitude of not snooping or constantly badgering her about it or even voicing complaints about it.

 

The ex in Brazil is completely ridiculous to me. Visiting a guy she used to bang in another country with her girlfriend on a trip planned without you (normally couples travel with each other over their friends) is just stupid to me. For some reason you came on here and posted about it when this is clearly out of bounds for you. I don't know why you would do this. If she does something that is that not ok with you I wouldn't bother asking other people what their opinions are, I would just confront them on what their thought process was, how they could think this is ok, and how not ok I am with it.

 

The finances thing is weird. Figuring out a fair amount for you to pay while living with her should be a joint decision. I would be pretty unhappy with the fact she just decided something and isn't listening to your side. Its also very very weird she has such a different opinion of what to do than her parents. I rarely deviate from what both me and my parents decide money wise. I would also very very very very rarely do something so out of whack with what they thought was a good idea. Here it sounds like her parents presented it as something the two of you could do, and then she decided on her own without talking to them to do something completely different. I would never have done that.

 

Its not me trying to go along with whatever they tell me. I'm reasonable, they are reasonable, so there's no need to disagree.

[RonaldS]

Its not really fair to pile on ongoing issues that you just aren't dealing with. If that's the problem, the real problem is that you can't resolve the conflicts you have with her to a satisfactory level, and the actual conflicts don't matter that much. Right now you have multiple piled up issues that aren't being delt with at all and are thus not getting resolved.

 

She basically stopped having sex with you and didn't tell you why. I would call those answers bull**** excuses, and honestly they would just piss me off. To me she's just less interested in you for some reason, and then doesn't talk to you at all about what the problem is. Great, there's 0 chance it ever gets resolved doing that. I would have been voicing my displeasure with her not telling me whats going on, not so much that the sex has stopped, just that she doesn't tell me whats actually happening. Sometimes this just has no answer and whatever you just either accept the sex level and live with it or you leave.

 

Her hanging out with some guy to me is whatever. If she ends up dating him the real problem is that your relationship was ****ty and she left, and she kinda sucks so thats why she did that. If you can't trust her and constantly have to set her boundaries with other guys for her that's bull****. She should be dealing with that stuff on her own. So far its just one guy she's friends with and she occasionally goes for beer with him. You don't really have to step in. If he's obviously somewhat interested and she denies it thats super standard girl behaviour. I agree with your attitude of not snooping or constantly badgering her about it or even voicing complaints about it.

 

The ex in Brazil is completely ridiculous to me. Visiting a guy she used to bang in another country with her girlfriend on a trip planned without you (normally couples travel with each other over their friends) is just stupid to me. For some reason you came on here and posted about it when this is clearly out of bounds for you. I don't know why you would do this. If she does something that is that not ok with you I wouldn't bother asking other people what their opinions are, I would just confront them on what their thought process was, how they could think this is ok, and how not ok I am with it.

 

The finances thing is weird. Figuring out a fair amount for you to pay while living with her should be a joint decision. I would be pretty unhappy with the fact she just decided something and isn't listening to your side. Its also very very weird she has such a different opinion of what to do than her parents. I rarely deviate from what both me and my parents decide money wise. I would also very very very very rarely do something so out of whack with what they thought was a good idea. Here it sounds like her parents presented it as something the two of you could do, and then she decided on her own without talking to them to do something completely different. I would never have done that.

 

Its not me trying to go along with whatever they tell me. I'm reasonable, they are reasonable, so there's no need to disagree.

 

This is a really good post. It almost sounds like something I would say to somebody else in my situation. Thank you.

 

I agree 100% that there are issues and conflicts that aren't being resolved. Last night, I expressed my concern with her that we did not communicate about our issues and resolve them. Naturally, that conversation did not result in any sort of conclusion.

 

The ex in Brazil thing is sorta tricky for me, which is why I didn't react to it right away. The reason in not going is because I can't. She didn't ask me to, but she knows that with the obligations I have and where my finances are currently directed to, I can't just drop a few grand and go on a trip. So, she didn't ask me to go, but she did ask me my thoughts on her staying with her ex. I don't know....that one looks bad on the outside, might be bad inside, but might also be nothing.

 

I guess all of this is what one can expect when one backs into a relationship. Really kinda effed up. The smart money is on moving on.

[Radu]

Passive-agressive in what she wants meets take-it-or-leave-it man.

You guys are so independent that you became ships [with lights off] in the night.

 

Until you sit down and have a serious discussion on all these topics, nothing will be settled.

I really doubt this will happen though.

[Natsu21]

Dude, please set some boundaries and quick or else your girl is gone.

[RonaldS]

Dude, please set some boundaries and quick or else your girl is gone.

 

At this point, I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.