New guy 'friend' in picture, intimacy waning

[tom670]

If you want to find out what's going on put a voice activated recorder in her car and one in the house you should get answers in a few days especially if you are gone traveling.

[RonaldS]

If you want to find out what's going on put a voice activated recorder in her car and one in the house you should get answers in a few days especially if you are gone traveling.

 

Ummmm....no. I'm not a snoop.

[No Limit]

Since you started out as FWB, I'm surprised you're now content living with someone when there's barely any intimacy involved just because this person was desperate to have someone by their side - while in the meantime some other guy from work is getting the intimacy.

 

 

What exactly are you waiting for?

[RonaldS]

Since you started out as FWB, I'm surprised you're now content living with someone when there's barely any intimacy involved just because this person was desperate to have someone by their side - while in the meantime some other guy from work is getting the intimacy.

 

 

What exactly are you waiting for?

 

Well, first and foremost, some sort of proof that there is something going on. There seems to be a correlation, but post hoc ergo propter hoc doesn't constitute any sort of actual substantiation.

 

But I'm rational, so I'm not going to start doing things like snooping, voice-activated recorders, hacking phones, etc. Nor am I going to start making accusations or inferences. The last thing I want to do is turn into an insecure psycho and flip out, only to then find out that there was some external thing that was affecting things that had nothing to do with another relationship. I've seen people do that stuff (eg XW), and 8 times out 10, it totally blows up in their face.

 

Nobody here was desperate. She's a beautiful, intelligent and accomplished woman....there would never be a reason for her to be desperate. Our living situation was a product of two people who liked each other and were compatible.

 

I guess maybe I'm not sure how to satisfactorily figure this out, but I hope something comes to light

[tom670]

Well, first and foremost, some sort of proof that there is something going on. There seems to be a correlation, but post hoc ergo propter hoc doesn't constitute any sort of actual substantiation.

 

But I'm rational, so I'm not going to start doing things like snooping, voice-activated recorders, hacking phones, etc. Nor am I going to start making accusations or inferences. The last thing I want to do is turn into an insecure psycho and flip out, only to then find out that there was some external thing that was affecting things that had nothing to do with another relationship. I've seen people do that stuff (eg XW), and 8 times out 10, it totally blows up in their face.

 

Nobody here was desperate. She's a beautiful, intelligent and accomplished woman....there would never be a reason for her to be desperate. Our living situation was a product of two people who liked each other and were compatible.

 

I guess maybe I'm not sure how to satisfactorily figure this out, but I hope something comes to light

 

Well you can't find out if you don't investigate.

[PinkInTheLimo]

We've been 'together' for almost 2 years. It's goofy. Sort of backed into a relationship. Started out as NSA/FWB, kept our distance emotionally, but gradually it just turned into a sort of ordinary relationship. She has been pushing the relationship/couple/love thing, so it would be odd if she then decided to start something up with somebody else. But the fact of the matter is that there is a 'somebody else' in the picture, although the context of that is unclear.

 

I know that in her last relationship, she ended up cheating on her boyfriend. But their relationship was weird because he was out of the country for 5 months out of the year, so she was alone a lot. Not going to be judgemental of that.

 

Hey, I'm a big boy. If she wants something else/more, then hey....whatever makes her happy. I can deal with that and not be hurt.

 

But it almost seems like she trying to convince not only me, but herself as well, that it's nothing. But something is not nothing.

 

It sounds to me that you are not really committed to her. You find the contact pleasant and fun but it does not seem to go any deeper for you. She sounds like she needs commitment and it could be that she has enough of the fact that you are only standing with one leg in the relationship and is therefore getting closer to the other guy.

 

I personally do not like blurry uncertain situations and would not proceed like this (not getting what you want in your current relationship and therefore getting closer to another guy without actually having a talk about what is going on), and simply sit you down and tell you that I want more from the relations, rather than getting closer to another guy but I think this is the way she approaches it.

 

Frankly, I think you don't care enough for her and that is pushing her in the arms of another guy. I guess that is what happens most of the time with these relationship where the intention is not to have something long term.

[Redhead14]

There is really nothing you can do if she is developing a relationship with someone else. You will need to just let it play out. If she is, it likely means she is unhappy for some reason in your relationship. If she's choosing not to come to you a tell you that she is unhappy, it means she has maybe already made up her mind.

 

The best thing you can do really, is maybe say that you are sensing something is not quite right and maybe she will tell you. Otherwise, let her have space to consider what's going on and analyze it herself.

 

It's a tough thing to do, I know. But, there is no way you can "make" someone be with you. They have to want to.

 

Handle this with dignity. Don't snoop, don't be judgemental or confrontational. Just be your loving self. Be everything you were when she first came to you. If she sees or feels you changing, she will definitely keep moving.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Redhead14

[RonaldS]

Well you can't find out if you don't investigate.

 

I think you can....by being observant.

[RonaldS]

There is really nothing you can do if she is developing a relationship with someone else. You will need to just let it play out. If she is, it likely means she is unhappy for some reason in your relationship. If she's choosing not to come to you a tell you that she is unhappy, it means she has maybe already made up her mind.

 

The best thing you can do really, is maybe say that you are sensing something is not quite right and maybe she will tell you. Otherwise, let her have space to consider what's going on and analyze it herself.

 

It's a tough thing to do, I know. But, there is no way you can "make" someone be with you. They have to want to.

 

Handle this with dignity. Don't snoop, don't be judgemental or confrontational. Just be your loving self. Be everything you were when she first came to you. If she sees or feels you changing, she will definitely keep moving.

 

I agree with a lot of this. I have brought up that things don't feel the same as they did before I moved in, but she insists everything is fine. Maybe it is....I mean, we've been hanging out for almost 2 years, and now in living together, maybe she just feels comfortable and is more relaxed and not feeling the sense of urgency to hang on to me.

 

Or, maybe she's banging the other guy.

 

For the record, there is no lease/signed contractual agreement for the living situation. I'm free to leave whenever, so I don't feel stuck and I doubt she feels like she's stuck with me.

[Redhead14]

The dynamics have certainly changed because you are living together. There could be a ton of things going on in her head . . . feeling some loss of space/privacy, absorbing the fact that there the relationship has/is becoming a greater responsibility. I'm sure it's been an adjustment for you as well. Time will tell the tale and at some point it will all become clear to you one way or another.

 

Since you've already addressed the sense of change you're experiencing with her, bringing it up again will create tension. Let it be for a bit.

 

I wish you all the best. No matter how it turns out, it will be for the best. Is she aware that you are uncomfortable with it? If she is tuned into you and cares about your feelings, she will back off of it. If she doesn't want to back off knowing how it affects you, then that's another clue by itself.

 

It's not about controlling who she is friends with, it's about her respecting boundaries -- i.e. yours. This is a fundamental part of a successful relationship. It's a touch area to address. Diplomacy is key.

[RonaldS]

The dynamics have certainly changed because you are living together. There could be a ton of things going on in her head . . . feeling some loss of space/privacy, absorbing the fact that there the relationship has/is becoming a greater responsibility. I'm sure it's been an adjustment for you as well. Time will tell the tale and at some point it will all become clear to you one way or another.

 

Since you've already addressed the sense of change you're experiencing with her, bringing it up again will create tension. Let it be for a bit.

 

I wish you all the best. No matter how it turns out, it will be for the best. Is she aware that you are uncomfortable with it? If she is tuned into you and cares about your feelings, she will back off of it. If she doesn't want to back off knowing how it affects you, then that's another clue by itself.

 

It's not about controlling who she is friends with, it's about her respecting boundaries -- i.e. yours. This is a fundamental part of a successful relationship. It's a touch area to address. Diplomacy is key.

 

Good points. I have no interest to control who she's friends with and what she does. It could very well be that he is just a buddy. I have numerous girl friends who are just friends and I jibber jabber with them and get coffee and whatever. So I don't want to assume they're hooking up.

 

We are both very independent people, and neither of us is really home all that much. If anything, she's expressed wanting to spend more time together than less, and there is still a lot of privacy/room even though we live together.

[Redhead14]

Good points. I have no interest to control who she's friends with and what she does. It could very well be that he is just a buddy. I have numerous girl friends who are just friends and I jibber jabber with them and get coffee and whatever. So I don't want to assume they're hooking up.

 

We are both very independent people, and neither of us is really home all that much. If anything, she's expressed wanting to spend more time together than less, and there is still a lot of privacy/room even though we live together.

 

 

"If anything, she's expressed wanting to spend more time together" She did tell you that there is something lacking. Make a date with her. Take her out, buy her flowers or something you know she likes. If you can, plan a vacation. She may simply be seeking flattering attention and nothing more. Address this and see what happens

 

"independent people, and neither of us is really home all that much" - Independence is a good thing except to the point where you feel like you are living independent lives. You need to be "together".

 

Rather than snooping or confronting, make it a process of elimination. Listen carefully to her cues and address them individually. Like a science experiment. Layer by layer if there are more cues.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Redhead14

[salparadise]

Well you can't find out if you don't investigate.

I think you can....by being observant.

 

Perhaps, in time... but the fact that you're a rational, non-jealous type of person and yet suspicious enough to start this thread, and remain suspicious weeks later makes me think that you need to figure this out. The main reason being, so if there is nothing going on that you can let it go and work on building the relationship in the most positive way. That can't really happen while you're questioning her motives and feeling the way you do.

 

I am likewise a rational, non-suspicious person who doesn't snoop even when it would be easy. In all of my relationships I have trusted implicitly. There was exactly one time when I became suspicious. It also involved a "platonic" male friend. I asked a few questions and was given satisfactory answers, let it go for awhile, but kept having those uneasy feelings. To make a long story short, I caught her red-handed phuking the guy. This was after many months of being duped and lied to and suppressing the uneasy feelings.

 

My intuition was spot on. Intuition is a powerful thing. I learned not to ignore it just for the sake of not being that kind of guy. I hope you will find that there is nothing to worry about, but my intuition says that your intuition is probably reliable as well.

 

Since you're a rational person, here is a line of reasoning that I would consider... is she inherently honest through and through, or is she able to justify or otherwise allow herself to cut a few little corners? Are there gaps in her code that allow her to modify the rules to get what she wants, or does she always do the right thing even in the smallest of matters, even when there would be no consequences? In my experience, the former will not be able to carry on a deception. Of course if she's not it doesn't prove anything in this instance, give you a better idea of whether or not she's capable of such a deception. Perhaps you already know that answer and that's why your suspicions haven't been resolved.

 

All I am really saying is that snooping is not always unjustified, and there are times when you just need to know where you stand. You have to make your own decisions, of course, so I wish you the best... positive outcomes.

[Redhead14]

Ronald, I want to add one more thing here -- even though I understand that you mean she has no monetary/intrinsic need when you say this, She has nothing to really gain by having me around, this is a negative spin on your relationship. I hope she values you much more than that. It sounds like she should.

[RonaldS]

Ronald, I want to add one more thing here -- even though I understand that you mean she has no monetary/intrinsic need when you say this, She has nothing to really gain by having me around, this is a negative spin on your relationship. I hope she values you much more than that. It sounds like she should.

 

By that, I just meant there was no financial dependence on each other or other financial motivation. I stated that because often, two people get stuck together because of financial burdens, so I wanted to make it clear that me being there or not being there has no impact on her bottom line.

[RonaldS]

"If anything, she's expressed wanting to spend more time together" She did tell you that there is something lacking. Make a date with her. Take her out, buy her flowers or something you know she likes. If you can, plan a vacation. She may simply be seeking flattering attention and nothing more. Address this and see what happens

 

"independent people, and neither of us is really home all that much" - Independence is a good thing except to the point where you feel like you are living independent lives. You need to be "together".

 

Rather than snooping or confronting, make it a process of elimination. Listen carefully to her cues and address them individually. Like a science experiment. Layer by layer if there are more cues.

 

We have addressed the time together issue, and have spent more time together. It's been a process over the last year to figure out how we together best, and we both recognized that the way we started wouldn't work long term.

 

Also, I am introducing her to my kids in a couple of weeks. This I know is a big deal to her. She has felt not included in my life previously, but I explained to her that I was being judicious about bringing people into my kids lives. She has always been understanding of that. I also know that she's excited about meeting them, but she might even be nervous too.

[Redhead14]

There is a lot going on here. Try not to focus on the other friend. It sounds like the foundation is good.

 

You guys are at a point where some work is required to keep a relationship going and healthy. All the best to you. Please let us know how things go for you guys.

[RonaldS]

There is a lot going on here. Try not to focus on the other friend. It sounds like the foundation is good.

 

You guys are at a point where some work is required to keep a relationship going and healthy. All the best to you. Please let us know how things go for you guys.

 

Well, I wish I shared your confidence. I kind of don't really know what our foundation is....I mean, we started out as FWBs, but at the same time, we have known each other for over 20 years, and have some very close family/friend ties. I don't know. That being said, we started out as eff buddies and sort of backed into a relationship.

 

The other thing that I'm curious about....so, I've seen numerous threads over the years very similar to mine. It's always almost a consensus that the girl has moved on, is with somebody else, the relationship is over....but a lot of people who have responded seem to feel we're ok, or at least not doomed.

 

I just wonder what you guys are seeing that I'm not.

[Redhead14]

Well, I wish I shared your confidence. I kind of don't really know what our foundation is....I mean, we started out as FWBs, but at the same time, we have known each other for over 20 years, and have some very close family/friend ties. I don't know. That being said, we started out as eff buddies and sort of backed into a relationship.

 

The other thing that I'm curious about....so, I've seen numerous threads over the years very similar to mine. It's always almost a consensus that the girl has moved on, is with somebody else, the relationship is over....but a lot of people who have responded seem to feel we're ok, or at least not doomed.

 

I just wonder what you guys are seeing that I'm not.

 

I don't think that anyone here can say whether it is doomed or not. What I am seeing, Ronald, is that you seem to be a smart man and is in tune enough to your SO to sense that something is up. Real or imagined. One interesting thing you just said was that you don't really know what the foundation is. I can understand why you are feeling some insecurity. This maybe another area you should focus on as a possible clue to what's happening here. Does she otherwise show you respect, make you feel valued, feel appreciated?

 

If so, this one thing by itself, is not enough to question the entire relationship.

 

One other thing you might want to explore for yourself is that sometimes insecurity in a relationship really comes from within. In other words, it's you who is questioning and feeling like the relationship isn't working for you and so maybe unconciously you are focusing on something else in order to have something to blame for ending it.

 

You, at least, are focused on the relationship and are feeling that there is some work to be done on some level. So, that being true, there is some hope. It's when both parties are, let's say, on auto-pilot and just going through the motions and not paying attention to each other when things really fall apart. Now, some will say that right now, it's just your problem because you don't really know that she is developing a relationship with someone else and are worrying about it. But she is doing something that is making you uneasy. You've talked to her and she tells you it's fine. It isn't fine, she's making you uncomfortable and she's not responding to that.

 

I'll venture to say, though, that with all that's going on in the relationship that could be stressing her out, the intimacy will wane. Stress does affect intimacy in a big way. I'm betting that this other friendship is a blip on the screen. Even if she's seeking attention from someone else, it's probably just a distraction for her.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Redhead14

[RonaldS]

Ummmmmmm....yeah.

 

 

Sooooo...apparently she and a girl friend are planning a trip to Brazil. She just told me. She said 'Would you have a problem with me going to Brazil and staying with an ex?'

 

Really?!

[preraph]

^ Ruh-roh. But still she was completely up front about it. She asked you. Why would she even need to tell you she's staying with an ex? Would you have known that at all if she hadn't told you that? I do think you need to be honest with her now and tell her that yes, going to another country to see an ex and stay with him would make you feel uncomfortable. But now, find out where the girlfriend fits into all this. It might be that SHE is now involved with that ex and your gf doesn't give a flip and it's just a free place to stay in an exotic locale to her. You must find out what role the girlfriend of hers plays in this trip. It might clear something up. I mean, if she was going for a tryst, why take a third-wheel?? I bet that gf is interested in him.

[RonaldS]

^ Ruh-roh. But still she was completely up front about it. She asked you. Why would she even need to tell you she's staying with an ex? Would you have known that at all if she hadn't told you that? I do think you need to be honest with her now and tell her that yes, going to another country to see an ex and stay with him would make you feel uncomfortable. But now, find out where the girlfriend fits into all this. It might be that SHE is now involved with that ex and your gf doesn't give a flip and it's just a free place to stay in an exotic locale to her. You must find out what role the girlfriend of hers plays in this trip. It might clear something up. I mean, if she was going for a tryst, why take a third-wheel?? I bet that gf is interested in him.

 

The ex is from and lives in Europe, we're in the states. The ex and her friend have met, but there is no relationship between them.

 

She was upfront, but I don't know. It could be to pre-empt any suspicion. As in, if she's upfront about it, and I feel ok about it, then maybe she thinks I won't wonder why all of a sudden she's going on a trip to Brazil (without me, I would add).

 

I don't know. I played it cool when she brought it up.

[RonaldS]

Yeah, it's all falling apart right now.

 

There is some financial/investment stuff between us that is causing a giant rift. Not sure that I can live with somebody under these conditions. It's a bit complicated, but the gist of it is that I'm expected to pay in on a place under the pretense of rent, but can't expect to gain anything from it. The money goes to her and building her assets, and the place doesn't cost her anything. So, she profits and I get nothing more than a roof over my head.

 

That's a fine arrangement if we aren't supposed to be living together as partners in a relationship. But I thought two people in a relationship pooled their resources so that both parties benefit. Guess not.

 

This thing went from good to bad REAL quick.

[salparadise]

It's a bit complicated, but the gist of it is that I'm expected to pay in on a place under the pretense of rent, but can't expect to gain anything from it. The money goes to her and building her assets, and the place doesn't cost her anything. So, she profits and I get nothing more than a roof over my head.

 

Yea, that is complicated - easy to see it differently from either side. One key question is why is it free for her? Does she own the place outright, does it belong to a relative or... ? It's reasonable that you'd pay half of the rent under normal circumstances. If she owns the place then she has paid in advance and still has taxes and maintenance to think about. If it belongs to a relative who is letting her live for free, then it seems that the question of rent would be between you and the owner, and rent paid would go to the owner as opposed to the other tenant. On the other hand, if she has a lease for zero dollars that also allows her to sublet... yea, complicated.

 

On the Brazil thing... do you think it's merely coincidental that she chose Brazil as the place to go on vacation... ?

 

Sorry that it doesn't appear to be working out.

[Emilia]

Yeah, it's all falling apart right now.

 

There is some financial/investment stuff between us that is causing a giant rift. Not sure that I can live with somebody under these conditions. It's a bit complicated, but the gist of it is that I'm expected to pay in on a place under the pretense of rent, but can't expect to gain anything from it. The money goes to her and building her assets, and the place doesn't cost her anything. So, she profits and I get nothing more than a roof over my head.

 

That's a fine arrangement if we aren't supposed to be living together as partners in a relationship. But I thought two people in a relationship pooled their resources so that both parties benefit. Guess not.

 

This thing went from good to bad REAL quick.

I agree with you. I have a small mortgage on my flat but I would never expect a man to pay towards it if he moved in, unless we had some kind of contract that he would gain something towards the end. My mortgage is small enough for me not to bother with something like that. I'd never expect him to pay 'rent' if he didn't gain anything.

 

I'd only want him to pay his share of the utility bills, food, etc.

 

Resources should benefit both, certainly one shouldn't be exploited to benefit the other.