Textbook until now... [update]

[LondonMM]

I met S 15 years ago at university. For the first 10 years I must admit we weren't that close - the occasional lunch, mutual friend's parties, likes on Facebook etc. We went to each other's weddings, and once we had kids, went out as families a few times.

 

5 years ago she went through a rough patch in her marriage and for some reason started to open up to me. I suppose I did the same. Things changed, conversation become far more honest, meetings became more frequent, we admitted we weren't always telling our respective partners. Even if there was emotional intimacy there wasn't any physical boundaries crossed. It just felt good to have a close friend. A textbook emotional affair. Obviously in hindsight that was never going to be sustainable. I'm actually surprised we stayed that way for three years.

 

2 years ago lunch turned to a walk in a park on a summer's evening which led to a kiss and admissions of love. Our meeting to discuss the next day led to our having sex. However other than the physical nothing else changed - our friendship was as close as ever.

 

These last two years we've experienced much of what I've read on here - yo-yoing, guilt, discussions of leaving our partners vs staying until kids are older, little breaks of NC and coming back together with a bang. However even at our most antagonistic there was love and affection and appreciation we had each other. We also tried to maintain our domestic lives with our respective families until we decided what to do next. Its a cliche to say but I made more of an effort with my wife and kids. I suspect whatever happens I'll end up divorcing my wife as it wouldn't be fair my staying.

 

Three months ago something changed. We'd just spent a wonderful afternoon in a hotel room and as it was her birthday approaching I asked her to arrange another date so we could do something special. She exploded, accused me of pressuring her. I suspected she felt guilty so gave her space, and she after a week she came back. Sort of. Though we'd continue to speak and meet she stopped being as open, telling me weeks later after important events / life issues rather than immediately as she used to. We met again a few days ago (after my pleading) in which she appeared disinterested.

 

I asked if she had tired of us, tired of me, whether she wanted to end things yet she refused to answer - accused me of being needy and demanding. However saying I should give her a couple of weeks.

 

In my opinion the desire to do us seemed to have vanished, perhaps she's made her choice to stay with her family..which I don't begrudge. If she told me that I'd let her go if it made her happy. I just don't understand why she'd drag things out asking for more time given she seems disinterested?

[Owl]

I just don't understand why she'd drag things out asking for more time given she seems disinterested?

 

Because she's as addicted as you are...and struggles with having the strength to end it.

 

The solution is simple. Tell her it was great while it lasted but clearly it has run it's course. Wish her well...and end it.

[LondonMM]

I don't think we are addicted. Perhaps in the very early days when we first started having sex, that feeling when in limerence that demanded constant communication and sex; but that settled to an almost married state. In no bad way ie a best friend who you love and have sex with. Perhaps that's the issue - perhaps she thrived when it was addictive and found a long term affair dull?

 

Either way you wouldn't expect that foundation of friendship to just vanish?

 

And yes, ending things, if only for my own sanity seems sensible but given I was ready to leave my family to be with her properly, not something I want to jump to.

[Lovemesomehim]

Maybe after all these years, she's feeing guilty for cheating on her husband and depriving her family.

 

 

With her pulling away from you, do you still plan on leaving your wife?

[DKT3]

Sometimes things simply aren't equal. From the sounds of this, she is starting to feel a stronger pull from her husband then from you. Much in the way I'm sure she gained emotional distance from her husband during the height of the A, she is now gaining emotional distance from you. Its doubtful that she was ever in as deep as you, and was never at the stage of leaving her family.

 

Continues contact is going to be painful as she pulls away. If you push she would likely hang in there but the bitterness your getting will only get worse. Rip it off, why prolong this with a slow pull? This affair has reached its end point, staying friends isn't an option, being that its really only trying to keep the door open however slight.

[beach]

I don't think we are addicted. Perhaps in the very early days when we first started having sex, that feeling when in limerence that demanded constant communication and sex; but that settled to an almost married state. In no bad way ie a best friend who you love and have sex with. Perhaps that's the issue - perhaps she thrived when it was addictive and found a long term affair dull?

 

Either way you wouldn't expect that foundation of friendship to just vanish?

 

And yes, ending things, if only for my own sanity seems sensible but given I was ready to leave my family to be with her properly, not something I want to jump to.

 

But you've never been ready to leave your family. Be honest.

 

You never took action to make that happen so you weren't "ready" - and it's possible she's just sick of living the lie(s).

 

Anything is possible.

 

BUT, what's MORE probable is that you two will continue as it's been for years - mainly because history repeats itself - especially when no one does anything NEW to be sure it changes.

[Be_Strong]

Either way you wouldn't expect that foundation of friendship to just vanish?

 

Yes, you would. Think of all the failed marriages that began with a strong foundation of friendship. By the end of the marriage, there is no semblance of friendship whatsoever. As you mentioned, your long term affair has taken on the form of a marriage and the friendship could very well die with the affair.

[Poppygoodwill]

Maybe you weren't really friends? Maybe it was all about escaping your realities of marriage?

[beach]

Textbook emotional and physical affair.

 

Yet you get greedy, needy and want more.

 

She's bumped you back so you expect less from her.

 

Push - pull - push - pull = round and round you go.

 

And you don't want to get off the ride called "CRAZY" cheaters.

 

Get therapy for yourself. You have both worlds and it's still not enough for you.

 

That looks dark in there.

[beach]

Maybe you weren't really friends? Maybe it was all about escaping your realities of marriage?

 

Maybe she used him.

 

Maybe he used her.

 

Maybe he used his wife.

 

Maybe it's just a sick game of using people.

 

Ego is big and gets in the way.

 

People get harmed by these situations. This isn't anything new.

[LondonMM]

Sometimes things simply aren't equal. From the sounds of this, she is starting to feel a stronger pull from her husband then from you. Much in the way I'm sure she gained emotional distance from her husband during the height of the A, she is now gaining emotional distance from you. Its doubtful that she was ever in as deep as you, and was never at the stage of leaving her family.

 

Its actually shocking how obvious certain things are, and how predictable you've actually become. I suppose you don't realise as think you're different, what you're experiencing is special and happily ever after is possible.

 

The above is true. I remember how irritated she used to get with her husband over the most trivial matters..I'd even defend him when I thought she was over-reacting. But its clear I'm experiencing the same anger and indifference he did. Perhaps she has gone back to him (or someone else).

 

A clean break sounds sensible however does the friendship have to die just because you told them you loved them or had sex with them? I think I'd be happy having her back as a friend but perhaps she can't do that. Perhaps I'm just being naive and a post affair friendship isn't possible or too risky as you'd only slip. Perhaps I'm just deluding myself in a final attempt to keep her in my life.

 

Surely happily ever after happens sometimes?!

 

And yes, I think a divorce is likely regardless. Its not as if I've run back to my wife this month, if anything I'm only clearer about what I want. My children are the biggest factor in my decision and one I'd only make if I knew they didn't get hurt in the process.

[beach]

Its actually shocking how obvious certain things are, and how predictable you've actually become. I suppose you don't realise as think you're different, what you're experiencing is special and happily ever after is possible.

 

The above is true. I remember how irritated she used to get with her husband over the most trivial matters..I'd even defend him when I thought she was over-reacting. But its clear I'm experiencing the same anger and indifference he did. Perhaps she has gone back to him (or someone else).

 

A clean break sounds sensible however does the friendship have to die just because you told them you loved them or had sex with them? I think I'd be happy having her back as a friend but perhaps she can't do that. Perhaps I'm just being naive and a post affair friendship isn't possible or too risky as you'd only slip. Perhaps I'm just deluding myself in a final attempt to keep her in my life.

 

Surely happily ever after happens sometimes?!

 

And yes, I think a divorce is likely regardless. Its not as if I've run back to my wife this month, if anything I'm only clearer about what I want. My children are the biggest factor in my decision and one I'd only make if I knew they didn't get hurt in the process.

 

Honey, you've hurt you're kids already. The minute you spent time and energy on the OW you short changed your wife and kids.

 

You're a typical married man who wants more than his wife. Too bad your wife doesn't understand the reality of her marriage.

 

It's all about you. What you want - and that you're willing to cause harm to those you say you love I order to get your side kicks.

 

That's not love at all. Love doesn't look like that kind of selfishness or pain.

 

You've become delusional with love and hatred.

 

Tell your wife what's real so she can make a decision based on reality.

[LondonMM]

My wife and I have our own issues. I care for her however simply don't like her any more for a number of reasons. Its a cliche Beach but I tried harder in my marriage whilst during in the affair. I knew what I was doing was wrong so strived to be a better father and even husband (other than the infidelity). Since the affair went south its actually been harder to maintain that facade at home...hence why divorce is top of my agenda.

[HermioneG]

My wife and I have our own issues. I care for her however simply don't like her any more for a number of reasons. Its a cliche Beach but I tried harder in my marriage whilst during in the affair. I knew what I was doing was wrong so strived to be a better father and even husband (other than the infidelity). Since the affair went south its actually been harder to maintain that facade at home...hence why divorce is top of my agenda.

 

Nope.

 

Not possible. Your wife was suffering from the contrast effect between her and your partner. And your kids suffered, too. Affairs harm entire families. It's delusion to think otherwise.

 

I am sure you're about to argue with me and tell me you were fantastic as a husband and father during this time, and affair had not a single impact on either. If that is truly the case- then your level of disassociation should be examined by a professional.

 

I hope you can understand that. If you no longer like your wife- divorce her. It is the thing you can do that won't further harm your own character. Healthy people don't cheat. Healthy people don't think they "tried harder than ever" in their marriage whilst having an affair.

 

I know I sound harsh. But if you are going to attempt to have a healthy future, you have to be honest. You have to face reality- and it is not the song you are singing.

 

Please divorce your wife. She deserves much better than what you think you gave her.

[LondonMM]

Nope.

 

Please divorce your wife. She deserves much better than what you think you gave her.

 

My wife isn't completely blameless in all this and has slipped up in the past. A one off rather than affair but seeds sown etc. As I said divorce is likely, and yes I do need to be completely honest with myself so I have a happy future and better relationships going forward.

 

Again, being delusional but I assumed S would play a large part of that. Aren't there any affair success stories - affairs turning to marriages and happily ever after?

[beach]

My wife and I have our own issues. I care for her however simply don't like her any more for a number of reasons. Its a cliche Beach but I tried harder in my marriage whilst during in the affair. I knew what I was doing was wrong so strived to be a better father and even husband (other than the infidelity). Since the affair went south its actually been harder to maintain that facade at home...hence why divorce is top of my agenda.

 

Then file for divorce if that's top of your agenda.

 

Expecting your MOW to participate more isn't practical now.

 

She's made it clear she disappears when you expect anything from her.

 

Learn to be happy all on your own. That way you won't be disappointed when others don't do as you expect.

[2sunny]

I'm sure your W isn't blameless.

 

Every M has at least two people participating.

 

But did your W ask you to add in a third person?

 

That 3rd person throws a monkey wrench into all of what's happening between the two people that married!

 

And if you didn't tell your W you added another person into the M then you've made your marriage a complete farce.

 

The blame may not all be on you - but you are responsible for that part in it... And it's not right to keep that truth from your wife.

 

Tell her your truth - she deserves to know you added someone else into your marriage and that it IS affecting that relationship.

[herself]

All I can say is I had a very long-term ea with a very good friend. Guilt finally took its toll though we weren't planning a life together in any way.

We went nc...finally reunited as friends and were able to have a few months of really great platonic friendship before we slipped and fell deeper than before.

Guilt again caught up and after 6 months we are back to square one!

Awkward low contact no flirting or blissful exchanges of ily imy, its just a mess.

This on off cycle for you guys will likely continue too.

Maybe take a long break and allow yourself some time to address getting a divorce and allow her time to figure out what she wants as well.

She isn't treating you well and its not a good sign.

Also when I got divorced (now remarried) I made the choice to leave it hurt me still alot to end a marriage. You will have the same emotion I presume.

So you need this break anyways. You need some time.

[DKT3]

All I can say is I had a very long-term ea with a very good friend. Guilt finally took its toll though we weren't planning a life together in any way.

We went nc...finally reunited as friends and were able to have a few months of really great platonic friendship before we slipped and fell deeper than before.

Guilt again caught up and after 6 months we are back to square one!

Awkward low contact no flirting or blissful exchanges of ily imy, its just a mess.

This on off cycle for you guys will likely continue too.

Maybe take a long break and allow yourself some time to address getting a divorce and allow her time to figure out what she wants as well.

She isn't treating you well and its not a good sign.

Also when I got divorced (now remarried) I made the choice to leave it hurt me still alot to end a marriage. You will have the same emotion I presume.

So you need this break anyways. You need some time.

 

I never fully understood your story, you were involved in that A thru two marriages?

[writergal]

Aren't there any affair success stories - affairs turning to marriages and happily ever after?

 

There are successful stories where affairs turned into marriages that are happily ever after. I know two women who married their affair partners and have remained married and happy ever since. So it does happen. Not everyone's first marriage is their last, fortunately or unfortunately.

[herself]

No...divorced long long time ago.

Way before any A.

A happened after I was re married.

I referenced divorce to illustrate to op that just because he is the one choosing to leave will not automatically mean he wont suffer just the same as the spouse being left.

[DKT3]

LondonMM, I get it. After I found out my wife cheated, I kinda went on a mission to have my own affair. Although it doesn't sound likely you actively searched it out the way I did, you were able to follow through which I couldn't.

 

I don't think you ever got over your wife cheating, and at this point you never will, however this other woman is likely a soft place to land, and transition relationship and would have no place in your life long term.

 

If your anything like what I was, the divorce is a must, its something I had to do for myself. It this is the case then get it over with. Tell your wife your unhappy and you can't continue in the marriage. Its hard, it sucks, and you will have to learn to be a half time father.

 

One thing I wanted to touch on, you didn't really try harder because of the affair, you faked your A$$ off so you didn't get caught. Working at the marriage would have meant commiting to it mind body and soul, if you were in love with or thought you were in love with another woman then how could you commit you fixing your marriage let alone your wife. So stop being dishonest with yourself about that.

[2sunny]

You're probably mad at the OW that she's not someone you can control.

 

You want her fall back into the role that makes it easy for you to cheat and easier (bearable) to stay married.

[HermioneG]

My wife isn't completely blameless in all this and has slipped up in the past. A one off rather than affair but seeds sown etc. As I said divorce is likely, and yes I do need to be completely honest with myself so I have a happy future and better relationships going forward.

 

Again, being delusional but I assumed S would play a large part of that. Aren't there any affair success stories - affairs turning to marriages and happily ever after?

 

None of the above changes what I said about the contrast between the two, except to say that as mad hatters, you really should divorce, if neither of you can be faithful or people of integrity in your marriage. Nobody deserves to be cheated on- you did not, and neither does your wife. Nobody.

 

Of course there are affair "success" stories, though I tend to believe any relationship built off the harm of another is a fundamental problem. But everyone is different. Although I do not think your OW wishes for this with you. She sounds to me like a woman looking for a door away from you.

[GoBlue]

In my opinion the desire to do us seemed to have vanished, perhaps she's made her choice to stay with her family..which I don't begrudge. If she told me that I'd let her go if it made her happy. I just don't understand why she'd drag things out asking for more time given she seems disinterested?

 

Everything about this relationship has been "dragged out". There is nothing appropriate or good about it - except for the drug you get inundated with that gives your body pleasant feelings when you are together. It just isn't real life. The fact that this has gone on as long as it has is the biggest surprise. Both of you have done your families a true disservice. This may be the biggest blessing on your life, an opportunity to come clean and reinvest yourself at home. That's my prayer anyway.