Judging a person for success?

[Lipitor11]

Well...I think a man or woman in their mid-20's SHOULD have their own car and not be living with their parents and they should at least have a job. Some people in their late 20's or 30's decide to go back to school, I don't know, it depends what happened to them.

 

What are your salary requirements? And is living in an apartment unacceptable for someone your age? Just curious.

[Leigh 87]

Well...I think a man or woman in their mid-20's SHOULD have their own car and not be living with their parents and they should at least have a job.

 

Oh well, sh*t happens to people sometimes. There are plenty of intelligent and ambitious people at that age who simply don't have a car, their own place or a job.

 

Although it is a perfectly viable reason for not wishing to date a person - you want someone who has what you have.

 

But remember, plenty of people who SHOULD have achieved those milestones, and yet haven't, are not necessarily less intelligent or ambitious than you.

 

The world doesn't always reward people who are intelligent and ambitious! Things go wrong.

 

What are your salary requirements? And is living in an apartment unacceptable for someone your age? Just curious.

 

 

I am in my late 20's and wishing to go back to college because I hated my last career eventually due to the way the industry was becoming.

[thefooloftheyear]

I am in my late 20's and wishing to go back to college because I hated my last career eventually due to the way the industry was becoming.

 

I understand what you are trying to say, Leigh...I have no doubt that you are an intelligent woman...all I will say is this...

 

"Intelligence" comes in many forms...Some people spend several years(even decades) in school, straight 4.0 student, yet cant operate most basic household appliances or manage a checkbook..

 

True "success" in terms of earning and succeeding in one's chosen field usually has more to do with basic survival skills and strong common sense..Its not always(in fact in almost every case), due to someone's level of education..

 

I went from penniless to a milliionaire in less than ten years and fully financially independent in less than 20...I have a bachelor's degree, but for how much of it I actually used to get where I am now, I may as well wipe my ass with it....Dont misunderstand me, i am not knocking a higher education..Its important and I am sure my own daughter will be college bound...What I will reinforce with her is to try to recognize what her true passion is and direct the area of study to more greatly benefit her chosen path...

 

There are tons of people like myself, who may not be as erudite as our more well-schooled peers, but we know how to earn and often that is what most people equate with "success"

 

TFY

[Leigh 87]

I understand what you are trying to say, Leigh...I have no doubt that you are an intelligent woman...all I will say is this...

 

"Intelligence" comes in many forms...Some people spend several years(even decades) in school, straight 4.0 student, yet cant operate most basic household appliances or manage a checkbook..

 

True "success" in terms of earning and succeeding in one's chosen field usually has more to do with basic survival skills and strong common sense..Its not always(in fact in almost every case), due to someone's level of education..

 

I went from penniless to a milliionaire in less than ten years and fully financially independent in less than 20...I have a bachelor's degree, but for how much of it I actually used to get where I am now, I may as well wipe my ass with it....Dont misunderstand me, i am not knocking a higher education..Its important and I am sure my own daughter will be college bound...What I will reinforce with her is to try to recognize what her true passion is and direct the area of study to more greatly benefit her chosen path...

 

There are tons of people like myself, who may not be as erudite as our more well-schooled peers, but we know how to earn and often that is what most people equate with "success"

 

TFY

 

 

I understand that being purely academic will only carry you to far, you will graduate and then what? You have to get people to want to employ you and promote you, or alternatively, have the skills to make something of yourself in a more entrepreneurial sense like YOU have done.

 

I personally think a mix of both things are ideal for a partner to have; I am not only going to strive to do well at college and secure a job, I also want to enjoy the marketing side of things; hire a professional to make a business card that I will hand out at every appropriate opportunity. Network, and just be a respectable, pleasant woman that people in the industry like and want to deal with.

 

I need to make contacts in the industry I wish to excel in, in order to open a practice and make serious money one day. Going into partnerships and starting a business is what podiatrists who earn 300KL do. I have a goal and it will definitely take more than good grades for my goal to actually come into fruition.

 

Would a person with "a job", of an average income and with no drive to succeed to a level beyond what they have already achieved, appeal to you?

 

Probably not.

 

Nor would a person who naturally excelled due to a fierce natural talent and then happened to run into a person who gave them a job that lead to them making 400K a year. For instance, an actuary who works for the worlds leading financial institution who actually is not passionate about his job yet earns close to six figures and is only there because he is mathematically gifted, yet has poor interpersonal skills and is not very ambitious or driven, and purely has his role due to his natural genius and a chance meeting with a leader of a major bank.

[RonaldS]

I've seen both sides of the hill. I grew up poor, although in fairness to our global community, it was developed nation poor. But still, we had a lot less than most people in our town, we often didn't have much in the way of decent food, got kicked out of places we lived, etc.

 

I put myself through school and went into debt to do it. I still worked and actually made good money while in school, but when you're on the hook for every expense, it gets pretty costly. When I wanted a break from school and wanted to travel, etc, I did that. I didn't want to miss out on life.

 

Then, I started a business and began making really good money. We lived in an expensive neighborhood in an expensive city, had nice cars, went on vacations, etc. But I began to see it, as $2.50/gal stated, as a trap. Once you start to make that money and build that lifestyle, you have to keep making that money to maintain that lifestyle. And it never seems like quite enough. So you work harder, longer, but you don't really get anywhere. You just get more 'stuff'. And nobody ever wants to go backward, so you just keep grinding it out.

 

Thankfully, the economy collapsed. It was maybe the best thing that ever happened to me. I lost 50% of my revenues, had to get rid of employees and any overhead I could just to survive. '08-'10 were BRUTAL.

 

At that time, I decided to go back to school to get a teaching license. Not south for benefits, job security, pensions etc, but because my business was not intrinsically rewarding, and I wasn't doing much to benefit society. Teachers don't exactly make a ton of money, but that's fine. I don't need all that crap anymore. I really don't even want it. I had it, it didn't bring me happiness or fulfillment.

 

I've redefined success in my world. It's all about the footprints I'm leaving in the sand. That's what matters to me now. Did I make the world a better or worse place? Did I enrich the life experiences of others, or did I diminish them? Did I help anybody along the way?

 

A lot of people might look at me from an income/asset perspective and say that I'm not 'successful'. That's OK, because I couldn't give half a sh*t about what people think of me. I'm happy and my kids are happy. That's all I care about. And when it came to dating, if some chick wasn't into me because I don't have a ton of money and a sweet condo and a nice boat, screw them. Didn't care. Wasn't my loss.

[2.50 a gallon]

Over my career in historical research I have been fortunate in that I have been able to bring many new facts into the 20th and now the 21st Century. Though it has not brought me any great riches, this is offset with the pleasing thought that in my own little way, I have added to the knowledge of man.

[DazedandConfused8]

You said that you wouldn't date a woman who didn't have their own car, house or a job that earns a decent enough income to be comfortable.

 

No! That's not what I said. Maybe all this is coming from the lack of reading what I wrote in the OP.

[carhill]

No! That's not what I said. Maybe all this is coming from the lack of reading what I wrote in the OP.

Yep, IMO you noticed certain aspects, call them mileposts, which were antithetical to the mileposts on your path and correlated them to personality aspects you felt assisted you in your accomplishments, focusing in on, antithetically -

 

"And especially has no passion/motivation/desire to better themselves"

 

which, in your opinion, looms large in a person's success in life.

 

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

In all this reading and writing about success and stuff, a thought occurred to me, and that is, as a result of the ripping off of the cultural and economic limits on women, they now can easily support themselves financially, achieve their own material successes, have absolute social and sexual freedom, gain emotional support, love and bonding from fellow females and easily garner sex from men when their proclivities in that area are tickled, should they be heterosexual.

 

They can raise their standards as high as they want because, frankly, we're (males) superfluous. You saw one suggestion of this in postings indicating you'd throw your standards right out the window for the 'right' woman and that generally means one who rocks your libidinous world. They're probably right, though that's tough for a man to admit. That, my friend, is power. Respect it or die in its dark side. Like Bill Gates used to say, it's better to ride the bear and live than be under the bear with the bear eating you.

 

Sometimes the winning move is not to play. Up to you. Good luck!

[OwMyEyeball]

They can raise their standards as high as they want because, frankly, we're (males) superfluous. You saw one suggestion of this in postings indicating you'd throw your standards right out the window for the 'right' woman and that generally means one who rocks your libidinous world. They're probably right, though that's tough for a man to admit. That, my friend, is power. Respect it or die in its dark side. Like Bill Gates used to say, it's better to ride the bear and live than be under the bear with the bear eating you.

Makes me wonder if the sex drive dampening side-effect of my anti-depressants are actually a primary benefit

 

Not a bear to be seen for miles around

[Leigh 87]

No! That's not what I said. Maybe all this is coming from the lack of reading what I wrote in the OP.

 

So you're open to dating a woman who is doesn't have a variety or house so long as they're intelligent they are also actively bettering themselves in a way that you can see first hand?

[MidwestUSA]

So you're open to dating a woman who is doesn't have a variety or house so long as they're intelligent they are also actively bettering themselves in a way that you can see first hand?

 

 

 

He was pretty clear about it in his opening post.

 

 

"... And especially has no passion/motivation/desire to better themselves. (Or they do but claim to be constantly sidelined because they're sick/busy/other excuses.)

 

Would you say I'm overreacting in my judgment? To be clear, I'm not saying I won't date them, but just that I notice that their work ethic and commitment level is different."

 

 

 

Not sure what's not to understand about it.

[IndianBabu]

He was pretty clear about it in his opening post.

 

 

"... And especially has no passion/motivation/desire to better themselves. (Or they do but claim to be constantly sidelined because they're sick/busy/other excuses.)

 

Would you say I'm overreacting in my judgment? To be clear, I'm not saying I won't date them, but just that I notice that their work ethic and commitment level is different."

 

 

 

Not sure what's not to understand about it.

 

Its not the original post that is inflammatory per se, its the subsequent posts in which he states that a person's worth is directly tied to their level of education and their possessions.

 

"Some people are better than others"

 

I think that is what Leigh is arguing against. And I completely agree with her.

[MidwestUSA]

Its not the original post that is inflammatory per se, its the subsequent posts in which he states that a person's worth is directly tied to their level of education and their possessions.

 

"Some people are better than others"

 

I think that is what Leigh is arguing against. And I completely agree with her.

 

 

 

If he'd said 'some people are better FOR ME than others', would y'all be okay with it? That's what it boils down to.

 

 

Or, their worth to him.

[IndianBabu]

If he'd said 'some people are better FOR ME than others', would y'all be okay with it? That's what it boils down to.

 

 

Or, their worth to him.

 

Of course. Everyone has their personal preferences. That is not being questioned.

 

But that is not what he said. What he posted was that society sees certain people as being better than others because of criteria relating to education etc.

[Mr Scorpio]

ociety sees certain people as being better than others because of criteria relating to education etc.

 

Is this not the case?

[IndianBabu]

Is this not the case?

 

I have my MD. I am a surgical resident. OP has a masters. Does that make me a better person than OP in the eyes of society?

[MidwestUSA]

Of course. Everyone has their personal preferences. That is not being questioned.

 

But that is not what he said. What he posted was that society sees certain people as being better than others because of criteria relating to education etc.

 

I have only read and responded to post #85 in this thread, and used the opening post to do so.

 

 

I can't throw stones at OP, as I measure success pretty much the same way he does. Maybe he lives near me, LOL!

[cerridwen]

I'm with you Dazed and Confused!

People can't shame me out of my standards!

 

I would not consider dating someone who lived with their parents due to loafing off instead of going to college, or would smoke weed instead of pursuing a goal, only to turn around and make endless excuses for lack of progress on one's life.

I reserve the right to judge that NOT FOR ME!

 

NO! I say!

NO!

 

Give me someone for whom passion is synonymous with achievement!

[MidwestUSA]

I'm with you Dazed and Confused!

People can't shame me out of my standards!

 

I would not consider dating someone who lived with their parents due to loafing off instead of going to college, or would smoke weed instead of pursuing a goal, only to turn around and make endless excuses for lack of progress on one's life.

I reserve the right to judge that NOT FOR ME!

 

NO! I say!

NO!

 

Give me someone for whom passion is synonymous with achievement!

 

 

 

Oh, baby! Come to me NOW!

[cerridwen]

Oh, baby! Come to me NOW!

 

I refuse UNTIL I SEE YOUR SATs!!

 

Dazed and Confused, hold the line!

You're not wrong!

[MidwestUSA]

I refuse UNTIL I SEE YOUR SATs!!

 

Dazed and Confused, hold the line!

You're not wrong!

 

 

 

I have cheese.

[Mr Scorpio]

I have my MD. I am a surgical resident. OP has a masters. Does that make me a better person than OP in the eyes of society?

 

In American society? Perhaps. Moreover, you are both likely viewed as "better" than a gas station attendant, in American society.

[IndianBabu]

In American society? Perhaps.

 

And this is wrong, in my opinion. A person's education has no bearing on the type of person that they are. They are not better than others, nor are they lesser.

 

Preferring to date someone who is educated / has a house / has a car is different than claiming that those who possess the above are inherently better than those without.

 

That was OP's claim and I disagreed with it.

[carhill]

I have my MD. I am a surgical resident. OP has a masters. Does that make me a better person than OP in the eyes of society?

Got the country club membership? The house in Pebble Beach to play those delicious rounds of golf with the sea air wafting up your nostrils? The dedicated staff who definitely will strive to remember your birthday and some of whom want to bang you and get a pinch of those partnership proceeds? Oh, yeah, it can be a rarified life.

 

Now, if you're over in Liberia treating Ebola victims and have a medical degree and not a pot to piss in, that might be perceived differently, though my perception would be of a successful and dedicated humanitarian. Others would have their own opinion. Suffice to say you'd fly under the radar of a whole segment of society who'd otherwise view that medical degree in a completely different social light. We're all judged, one way or another.

[Mr Scorpio]

And this is wrong, in my opinion. A person's education has no bearing on the type of person that they are. They are not better than others, nor are they lesser.

 

I agree. However, the sub-point here is whether or not "society" views people who are more accomplished as being "better" than others.

 

Not necessarily more educated, as there are plenty of people in America who spout -- right or wrong -- about "so called experts", but who are more accomplished.

 

Now I could be wrong. Perhaps if we polled the nation, more people would agree with you and I and stated that a nuclear-astronaut is no "better" than a whino. However, I would guess that if we could qualify their stated opinions via sociological experiments, my guess would bear out.

 

Preferring to date someone who is educated / has a house / has a car is different than claiming that those who possess the above are inherently better than those without. That was OP's claim and I disagreed with it.

 

Was it his claim though? He repeatedly claimed that some people are better than others. But I don't believe he specifically stated what the metrics are.

 

I think this is what's important and what was alluded to early on in the thread. I view those things as utilities that help me where I am today; the passion, work, and dedication put into achieving those things is what's (just as) important as what they actually are. I hope that helps.

 

OP is stating that the "means" (drive, determination, ambition) are equally important to the end results. Beyond that, OP referred to the subject of this thread as "his problem". He seems to acknowledge the limitation that his preferences place on his dating pool.