How do you know the difference between a "breadcrumb" and something more?

[citrusgreen]

My ex broke up with me 2.5 weeks ago. R was 1.5 years but a section of that was LD.

 

Background: The past 4 months we've been stuck in an unfortunate a breakup/makeup cycle (though up til now breakups have been quite short). He loved (and I think loves) me deeply. He also suffers from anxiety and attachment issues. He also clearly has anxiety surrounding the idea of a long term romantic commitment. This is the first "real" relationship he's ever been in -- and the longest. (I've been in a number, some much longer; I'm older than him). He always tells me that it's the first time he's "allowed himself to fall in love" and the first time he's "allowed himself to experience romantic feelings." Despite all of these things, he was absolutely unwavering in his love and dedication for me. As unstable as the rest of his life seemed at times, he absolutely made me feel incredibly loved, was always respectful, and made me a priority. However, he has freaked out and broken up with me a few times (once lasted just over a week; the other kind of 3, but he was traveling during that).

 

What I'm really wondering this: He's been contacting me very consistently since, literally, the hour of the breakup. Not like a "what's up?" every few days, but pretty much daily, multiple times a day, sometimes in the middle of the night, etc. Also regularly visiting my Instagram page, liking all of these old posts I've put up, pics of me on friends' pages, following my friends, etc. He's called a few times but either I've chickened out and not picked up his calls or we haven't talked long. His texts are along the lines of:

-I love you

-I miss you

-I miss you so much

-I really miss you

-You are still in my thoughts all the time...and i really deeply miss you with all my heart

-I love you so intensely

-You were the first person I ever fell in love with

-I miss you everyday, I hope we can see each other soon

-I really want to see you but I'm not a veteran here and don't know how to navigate

-Just want you to know how loved you are

-Just want you to know I love you so much

-I still love you and have feelings for you

-etc., etc., etc. (sometimes they're much longer, trying to keep this shortish)

 

I really miss him. But I've been VERY inconsistent in my level of responsiveness, because I REALLY don't know what to do. I'm incredibly sad. I don't know that he actually knows this. I accepted the breakup almost immediately and went immediately into NC for about 4 days (though he texted me a few times each day)...until he got really upset and called. I then went through a period of selectively (but kindly) responding to SOME of texts, leaving others unanswered (When I did respond I would sometimes say that, yes, I loved him too, but tried to focus instead on the fact that I CARE about him and hope he's doing ok--so as not to reveal to much about my state). But then I'll suddenly feel hurt/vulnerable/resentful and suddenly go complete NC for another 4-5 days. After my 2nd bout of NC he had a panic attack. He called me over 20x at work while I was in a meeting. We never actually got to talk. He texted me later apologizing for what he called his "embarrassingly typical behavior".

 

I really just want to know, if I am at ALL interested in rekindling with him....SHOULD I be more responsive? On the one hand he is the one who broke it off. On the other, he had already been experiencing insecurity about my lack of responsiveness DURING the relationship. I feel like our other pseudo breakups were short lived in part because I stayed somewhat engaged and reassuring during the separation period -- never initiating contact, but being responsive to his.

 

But, at 2.5 weeks, this breakup is starting to feel a bit more real . I'm EXTREMELY sad about it. And I'm really afraid of being hurt by opening up and admitting my feelings if his communications are just normal/typical "breadcrumbs."

[frigginlost]

Not a single one of those texts states: I made a mistake, or I'm willing to do whatever it takes to fix things, or I want you back. If you want my honest opinion (I'm a guy) he sounds like a whiny little kid.

 

These are breadcrumbs. If you feel you need to respond, hold his feet over the fire; "what is it that you want? You told me you loved me, thank you. If you have nothing more to say, goodbye and leave me be".

[evanescentworld]

As above.

Breadcrumbs are basically all and anything other than "I made the biggest mistake of my life, I want you back and will do whatever it takes to prove it to you, even if it takes the rest of my life"

 

It's all in the No Contact Guide, I think you'll find. I read it a few times - sounds like a plan....

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/470829-all-new-2014-no-contact-guide

[citrusgreen]

Hmm, would the "holding his feet over the fire" approach not come off as a bit bitter--even weak?

 

At the same time, I have NOT told him I want to get back together.

 

Will leaving it at that (mysterious) work to my advantage? Or do I need to tell him or hint at it once so that he knows, before I cut things off.

Edited September 12, 2014 by citrusgreen

[frigginlost]

Hmm, would the "holding his feet over the fire" approach not come off as a bit bitter--even weak?

 

At the same time, I have NOT told him I want to get back together.

 

Will leaving it at that (mysterious) work to my advantage? Or do I need to tell him or hint at it once so that he knows, before I cut things off.

 

He dumped you. Stop looking at it as a game. He showed you how he thinks by dumping you. Weakness is responding to his childish "woe is me" b.s. with anything other than making him truly stew and realize your reactions are based on the decision he made.

 

He either realizes it and acts accordingly (telling you he blew it), or you appease his decision, give the baby his bottle, and allow him to wean himself off you....

[BC1980]

As others have said, do not respond to anything over than a message stating that he made a huge mistake and will do anything to fix what has happened. Many people have received texts like the ones you have received. It's not at all uncommon, and he is perfectly capable of telling you if he wants to get back together.

 

Do you want to know what his true intentions are? Then go NC, and do not reply to anything other than a message stating he wants you back. That should flush out his true intentions.

[citrusgreen]

He dumped you. Stop looking at it as a game. He showed you how he thinks by dumping you. Weakness is responding to his childish "woe is me" b.s. with anything other than making him truly stew and realize your reactions are based on the decision he made.

 

He either realizes it and acts accordingly (telling you he blew it), or you appease his decision, give the baby his bottle, and allow him to wean himself off you....

 

I understand not giving him the bottle. My question is: Is it preferable to be so explicit (e.g. "I'm not going to speak to you you want to get back together?")

 

Or better to just initiate NC (e.g., "Sorry, but I think it's best we don't speak. I wish you the best). And if he comes back around on his own (not that I'm counting on that...) then take it from there.

 

Somehow the first almost strikes me as letting him know that I'll be there waiting for him if he ever changes his mind....

 

Thanks.

[BC1980]

I understand not giving him the bottle. My question is: Is it preferable to be so explicit (e.g. "I'm not going to speak to you you want to get back together?")

 

Or better to just initiate NC (e.g., "Sorry, but I think it's best we don't speak. I wish you the best). And if he comes back around on his own (not that I'm counting on that...) then take it from there.

 

Somehow the first almost strikes me as letting him know that I'll be there waiting for him if he ever changes his mind....

 

Thanks.

 

I would say just drop off the face of the earth without warning, but, if you must contact him, go for number 2. Number 1 borders on an ultimatum, which people usually recoil from. I can almost guarantee he will not want to get back together with number 1. Number 2 is okay, but probably won't take you seriously for awhile. Any message at all lets him know that you are still concerned with him, so he will think to himself, she'll contact me at some point.

 

Just drop off the face of the earth. It's honestly the best way to see what his intentions are because it communicates that you don't care. He needs to truly believe that he has lost you if he is going to seriously reconsider.

[frigginlost]

Exactly what BC said....

[Strength in Healing]

This isn't gonna make me many friends here but honestly, it's incredibly hard to gauge if most contact by an ex is JUST a breadcrumb. It's much more difficult than anyone here would ever like to admit.

 

In the past, when I broke up with someone, I certainly wouldn't have just blindly sent a random text saying "HEY, I MADE A MISTAKE I TOTALLY LOVE YOU AND WANT ANOTHER CHANCE."

 

I know this is counterproductive to some people here's beliefs and ability to stay strong to heal, but in the interest of facts and psychology, I can't lie.

 

The reality is, not many people would blatantly just pop up and say "So, I made a mistake!!"

 

They would start it with someone like "Hey, how have you been?"

 

Sadly, most of the time it IS breadcrumbs. That is the risk you take. If you bite once though and that person doesn't express interest, then don't ever bite again when they text.

[BC1980]

This isn't gonna make me many friends here but honestly, it's incredibly hard to gauge if most contact by an ex is JUST a breadcrumb. It's much more difficult than anyone here would ever like to admit.

 

In the past, when I broke up with someone, I certainly wouldn't have just blindly sent a random text saying "HEY, I MADE A MISTAKE I TOTALLY LOVE YOU AND WANT ANOTHER CHANCE."

 

I know this is counterproductive to some people here's beliefs and ability to stay strong to heal, but in the interest of facts and psychology, I can't lie.

 

The reality is, not many people would blatantly just pop up and say "So, I made a mistake!!"

 

They would start it with someone like "Hey, how have you been?"

 

Sadly, most of the time it IS breadcrumbs. That is the risk you take. If you bite once though and that person doesn't express interest, then don't ever bite again when they text.

 

I think that's a good point to make as well. The breadcrumbs have consistently led to nowhere. They never became more serious, and that is telling. The majority of people take the bait and find out the dumper was just passing through. No real intentions to reconcile. I think that is what is happening here.

 

This same scenario happened to me for 4 months. Ex even sent a card on what would have been our anniversary, a heck of a breadcrumb. When I said I didn't want to be friends, he was cool and said he wouldn't contact me again. Sadly, my situation is often the rule.

[Ordinaryday]

Any contact, absolutely ANYTHING from them, which doesn't state something like "dumping you was a huge mistake. please give me another chance, I will do anything to prove how wrong I was in dumping you" is a breadcrumb, and I mean ANYTHING.

[Strength in Healing]

Same here BC. I bit many breadcrumbs, but these days if a relationship ends, I purposely bite a breadcrumb so I can do one of two things:

 

1). See that it was just a breadcrumb. This then opens the door for closure, because you know never to bite again.

 

2). If you find out it was just a breadcrumb, it opens the door for you to say the powerful line: "Look, honestly, it's just too difficult to be friends and do the small chat stuff. I love you. I want to be together. When the time comes what you want to be together, contact me. But please, don't contact me until that day."

 

 

Either way, replying to the INITIAL breadcrumb opens the door to closure. But expect pain, because odds are it's a breadcrumb. But it's a win win for you. You either get them back, or you get closure and aren't half as tempted to text/call/answer their texts or calls.

[Strength in Healing]

Any contact, absolutely ANYTHING from them, which doesn't state something like "dumping you was a huge mistake. please give me another chance, I will do anything to prove how wrong I was in dumping you" is a breadcrumb, and I mean ANYTHING.

 

 

I think you're missing the point. While you're right, technically anything aside from the general thing you stated is a breadcrumb, you need to understand, you're better off replying to the INITIAL contact so you can gauge how to act in the future. See above post.

 

That doesn't mean you keep replying to texts in the hopes that THIS one is different. You reply the first day they reach out to you. If they express interest in reconcile, so be it. If they don't, then you have now learned not to reply, and you get the closure to move on slowly.

[tim_tom]

2). If you find out it was just a breadcrumb, it opens the door for you to say the powerful line: "Look, honestly, it's just too difficult to be friends and do the small chat stuff. I love you. I want to be together. When the time comes what you want to be together, contact me. But please, don't contact me until that day."

.

 

 

I hear this a lot on here (not just from you), and it just seem so weak. Like .. I will be waiting patiently if you change your mind.. go sleep with anyone you want, i will still be here... most of the advice on her is spot on, but I never understood this one

[Strength in Healing]

I hear this a lot on here (not just from you), and it just seem so weak. Like .. I will be waiting patiently if you change your mind.. go sleep with anyone you want, i will still be here... most of the advice on her is spot on, but I never understood this one

 

Understandable. I don't really have a retort to your specific point. I actually agree, but I still recommend it because it helps people get closure, and is therefor worthwhile. They put the ball in the others court, and can move on.

[Ordinaryday]

Understandable. I don't really have a retort to your specific point. I actually agree, but I still recommend it because it helps people get closure, and is therefor worthwhile. They put the ball in the others court, and can move on.

 

and what is REALLY fitting is on that rare occasion where the dumper, after having the impression that you were just sitting around waiting for them to come back, decides they want you back.... but you have moved on and tell them "sorry, not interested anymore, thanks"

[Simon Phoenix]

This isn't gonna make me many friends here but honestly, it's incredibly hard to gauge if most contact by an ex is JUST a breadcrumb. It's much more difficult than anyone here would ever like to admit.

 

In the past, when I broke up with someone, I certainly wouldn't have just blindly sent a random text saying "HEY, I MADE A MISTAKE I TOTALLY LOVE YOU AND WANT ANOTHER CHANCE."

 

I know this is counterproductive to some people here's beliefs and ability to stay strong to heal, but in the interest of facts and psychology, I can't lie.

 

The reality is, not many people would blatantly just pop up and say "So, I made a mistake!!"

 

They would start it with someone like "Hey, how have you been?"

 

Sadly, most of the time it IS breadcrumbs. That is the risk you take. If you bite once though and that person doesn't express interest, then don't ever bite again when they text.

 

But if you really wanted that person back, them not responding to "Hey, how you've been" wouldn't have been a dealbreaker. I would guess that it would have made you come more correct the next time if you were that passionate about it.

 

I agree that most dumpers that want to reconcile probably won't go for the throat right away. But they also won't leave it be permanently at one unanswered breadcrumb either.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with your advice for people to gobble on that breadcrumb UNLESS they couldn't care less at the result of said breadcrumb. It's up to the dumper to come correct. If they choose not to, than they weren't that serious about reconciliation. Honestly, there is low reward, high risk for taking your approach and most of the time it doesn't bring closure -- it causes more confusion and angst.

[Downtown]

he suffers from SEVERE anxiety.... worried that I just seem to have so much resentment toward him that it's too much for him to bear (he's too sensitive and can't stand the thought of disappointing me) -- he's "scared" in general/of losing me/of being hurt/of hurting me [from your 3/15/14 post].

CG, if you want a stronger sense of closure, I suggest you get a clearer idea of what you've been dealing with by reading about SAD (Social Anxiety Disorder) and APD (Avoidant Personality Disorder) to see if most of the warning signs sound very familiar. The "severe anxiety" you describe is a red flag for SAD. Yet, because you also describe a strong fear of rejection and abandonment -- so strong that he repeatedly preemptively abandons you to stop the fear -- suggests that his issues may go well beyond SAD to be much closer to APD. Whereas SAD is very common (affecting about 12% of the population), APD is much less common (affecting only 2 or 3%).

 

Importantly, you will not be able to determine whether his behavioral traits are so strong as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown SAD or APD. Only a professional can do that. Yet, by learning what red flags to look for, you will be able to determine what type of warning signs you are seeing. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about those red flags. The World Health Organization's ICD-10, for example, lists the following warning signs for APD:

 

1. persistent and pervasive feelings of tension and apprehension;
   
2. belief that one is socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others;
   
3. excessive preoccupation with being criticized or rejected in social situations;
   
4. unwillingness to become involved with people unless certain of being liked;
   
5. restrictions in lifestyle because of need to have physical security;
   
6. avoidance of social or occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact because of fear of criticism, disapproval, or rejection.
   

If you decide your exBF is exhibiting most of these traits at a strong level, and if you are ever tempted to reconcile with him, it would be prudent to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a professional opinion on what it is you've been dealing with. Take care, CG.

[citrusgreen]

CG, if you want a stronger sense of closure, I suggest you get a clearer idea of what you've been dealing with by reading about SAD (Social Anxiety Disorder) and APD (Avoidant Personality Disorder) to see if most of the warning signs sound very familiar. The "severe anxiety" you describe is a red flag for SAD. Yet, because you also describe a strong fear of rejection and abandonment -- so strong that he repeatedly preemptively abandons you to stop the fear -- suggests that his issues may go well beyond SAD to be much closer to APD. Whereas SAD is very common (affecting about 12% of the population), APD is much less common (affecting only 2 or 3%).

 

Importantly, you will not be able to determine whether his behavioral traits are so strong as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown SAD or APD. Only a professional can do that. Yet, by learning what red flags to look for, you will be able to determine what type of warning signs you are seeing. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about those red flags. The World Health Organization's ICD-10, for example, lists the following warning signs for APD:

 

1. persistent and pervasive feelings of tension and apprehension;
   
2. belief that one is socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others;
   
3. excessive preoccupation with being criticized or rejected in social situations;
   
4. unwillingness to become involved with people unless certain of being liked;
   
5. restrictions in lifestyle because of need to have physical security;
   
6. avoidance of social or occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact because of fear of criticism, disapproval, or rejection.
   

If you decide your exBF is exhibiting most of these traits at a strong level, and if you are ever tempted to reconcile with him, it would be prudent to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a professional opinion on what it is you've been dealing with. Take care, CG.

 

Thanks so much for your concern and this perspective, Downtown. I can understand how you might wonder about SAD or APD based on my descriptions. I don't, however, think, he's either. While he is a bit socially awkward at times (and I know does suffer from some feelings of social inadequacy) he actually worked in nightlife for a number of years in a highly social capacity. Though he may be secretly nervous about some specific social situations, he comes across at best as engaging and at worst as a bit intense/aggressive. He also forms close (if unusual) bonds with people and emotes rather intensely.

 

If anything (and I know this theory won't help garner much support for continuing a relationship with him), I think he exhibists certain traits of borderline personality disorder (BPD). Not the vilified/manipulative version, but: difficulty regulating emotions; tendency toward black & white thinking; pattern of intense interpersonal relationships (at the same time he professes a fear of intimacy based on past hurt--which he seemed to want to overcome with me); frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment; at times paranoid ideation; etc...

 

The anxiety bit...not sure if it's co-morbid to the above or a cause or result of it... but he absolutely does have severe anxiety. As his friend said to me: he often seems unable to handle even normal/everyday degrees of stress. I've seen him get worked up (often to the point of tears, frantic-ness, or even what seem to approach a dissociative state) in response to things that would hardly phase me (and I'm not the most easy going person!)

[citrusgreen]

This isn't gonna make me many friends here but honestly, it's incredibly hard to gauge if most contact by an ex is JUST a breadcrumb. It's much more difficult than anyone here would ever like to admit.

 

In the past, when I broke up with someone, I certainly wouldn't have just blindly sent a random text saying "HEY, I MADE A MISTAKE I TOTALLY LOVE YOU AND WANT ANOTHER CHANCE."

 

I know this is counterproductive to some people here's beliefs and ability to stay strong to heal, but in the interest of facts and psychology, I can't lie.

 

The reality is, not many people would blatantly just pop up and say "So, I made a mistake!!"

 

They would start it with someone like "Hey, how have you been?"

 

Sadly, most of the time it IS breadcrumbs. That is the risk you take. If you bite once though and that person doesn't express interest, then don't ever bite again when they text.

 

 

Thank you, Strength in Healing.

 

I actually have to say I agree with you.

 

I've actually only been "dumped" by 2 people. And in both cases I've wound up getting back together with the person successfully. I've never chased and have never tried to "convince" the dumper of anything. But I've engaged with their "breadcrumbs" (meaning, things that felt like a bit more than breadcrumbs at the time--though by the this thread's definition, they were definitely just breadcrumbs). When I think back now to my past experiences, I can't imagine the rekindling happening any other way.

 

This may have a bit to do with my personality. I'm not aggressive -- and often come across as aloof or even uninterested (even when I'm very interested!). Because I hate feeling vulnerable, I tend to be pretty reserved/mysterious/hard-to-read. Meaning, for better or for worse, that silly book "The Rules" more or less describes how I tend to behave -- without trying.

 

Interestingly, it's been as the Dumper (not the Dumpee) where I've really gotten my heart broken. I've dumped people and regretted it deeply. But even at my most devastated (or maybe ESPECIALLY at that point, since that's where I feel most vulnerable), I've been hesitant to do more than toss out breadcrumbs if I'm not met with enthusiasm. The two relationships that broke my heart hardest have been those I've ended. In both cases I felt I'd do ANYTHING to have those people back -- yet I never actually did anything more than toss out a few breadcrumbs. (In some cases I even played hard to get when they returned the crumbs!)

 

This was my loss, clearly. I do wonder what might have happened if I'd been aggressive in the way this thread suggests the dumper should be if they second guess their decision. Clearly I have some issues of my own to work out here.

 

But I bring it up here to point out, to myself as much as the rest of you, that it's not always easy to interpret a Dumper's communications.

 

There is something reassuring about having hard and fast rules to follow: Don't accept breadcrumbs. Remain absolutely silent until they come back and say, "I've made the worst mistake of my life. I want you back." That may be the best approach in some situations. But in my own experience, the power dynamic between dumper and dumpee hasn't been completely black and white, and breakups have been more nuanced and complicated -- with hurt, uncertainty and vulnerability on both sides.

Edited September 15, 2014 by citrusgreen
grammar and typos

[Bella2]

As above.

Breadcrumbs are basically all and anything other than "I made the biggest mistake of my life, I want you back and will do whatever it takes to prove it to you, even if it takes the rest of my life"

 

It's all in the No Contact Guide, I think you'll find. I read it a few times - sounds like a plan....

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/470829-all-new-2014-no-contact-guide

 

Agree.... Evanescentworld is always right I fell for a stupid breadcrumb last week ("I miss you") and I responded. Very neutral, but still, I responded. Which ended up in e-mails that made me feel worse.... Gotta learn the hard way I guess.... IGNORE!!!!

[me85]

You know what it is by cutting to the chase. If polite texts keep going back and forth between you and your ex without any clear indication from him, just take it upon yourself to ask him if the reason he's contacting you is to reconcile or just to be friends.

 

Problem solved.

[Downtown]

I think he exhibists certain traits of borderline personality disorder (BPD). Not the vilified/manipulative version, but: difficulty regulating emotions; tendency toward black & white thinking; pattern of intense interpersonal relationships (at the same time he professes a fear of intimacy based on past hurt--which he seemed to want to overcome with me); frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment; at times paranoid ideation; etc...

CG, you now are describing warning signs for what is called a "quiet borderline," i.e., a BPDer who turns his anger inward instead of acting out in rages. It is difficult to find good information online because the vast majority of BPDers -- I would guess at least 90% -- are "loud." That is, they throw temper tantrums and verbally abuse their partners. Hence, very little is written about the quiet BPDers.

 

I've only seen two good online articles. One is by A.J. Mahari, who describes these folks at The Quiet Acting-In Borderline and The Silent Treatment. She calls these people "quiet borderlines." Similarly, Shari Schreiber describes them at Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved. Schreiber refers to these BPDers as "waif borderlines." Whereas Mahari emphasizes the icy cold withdrawals and sulking, Schreiber emphasizes the "I am just a poor little victim" aspect of the behavior. Of the two articles, I believe you will find Schreiber's view to be more applicable to your situation.

 

The anxiety bit...not sure if it's co-morbid to the above or a cause or result of it... but he absolutely does have severe anxiety.

If he has strong BPD traits, the anxiety is to be expected. A recent large-scale study of BPDers found that two-thirds of the men have a co-occurring anxiety disorder (the incidence is even higher for the women). See Table 3.