Becoming more picky about looks?

[Teknoe]

Lol! Did you just say that all loner girls are ugly?

 

I said "usually aren't very attractive."

 

Granted, I haven't met many. Most girls I've met have had friends.

 

The few that I met who were anti-social came off as socially awkward and unappealing. It wasn't just their looks but the negative way they carried themselves. There's a negative "aura" to them, and you can spot it a mile away.

 

I'm not saying people with friends are all sunshine and rainbows, but they usually have a healthier view on life as they are able to journey with others in this crazy thing called life. It gives them a little more perspective than someone who is a complete loner.

 

A good question was brought up recently: when was the last time you genuinely had a female friend? Someone you cared about but didn't want to bang? When was the last time you had a guy friend?

 

When was the last time you called a friend, or a friend called you just to talk for 10, 15 minutes?

 

When was the last time you met up with a friend 1 on 1 or in a small group just to hang out or catch up?

 

If the answer is "It's been years" then you may want to re-evaluate this aspect of your life. I don't know of many girls who would stick with a guy with no social connections. Even just having a few acquaintances can help add some perspective to your life.

[somedude81]

It would probably be rude to derail Somedude's thread, right? We'll just agree to disagree.

 

Please do agree to disagree.

 

The last 10 posts have been derailment.

[xxoo]

If getting pickier about looks means you will be talking to even fewer women, talking to only the pretty women, and ditching them as the prove disinterested in sex, then no. I would not recommend getting more picky about looks. You're going to isolate yourself even more, and seem even more like a creeper.

[PJKino]

Why do you have to be a social butterfly to attract women?

 

I understand you can't be a boring dude who never speaks you need some sort of personality but women on here make it seem like you must be the life if the party and center of attention for women to notice you

[serial muse]

Why do you have to be a social butterfly to attract women?

 

I understand you can't be a boring dude who never speaks you need some sort of personality but women on here make it seem like you must betcha life if the party and center of attention for women to notice you

 

That's a gross mischaracterization of what people are saying. Not being a social butterfly /= having absolutely no friends at all, and no interest in having any!

 

The point is that someone who actively rejects the idea of seeking out friendships as having nothing worthwhile in it for him is not going to be attractive to very many women, if any.

 

Also, I do not think that saying so is off-topic at all. SD, you are talking about becoming more picky, and wondering if that's going to be an issue, and people are trying to point out to you that this attitude about friends is not in your own best interest when it comes to finding someone to date. These women you're attracted to - I'll bet not a single one of them has no friends. I'll bet that, in fact, despite your assertion to the contrary, their cheerfulness and outgoingness - and your desire for them to be outgoing enough to give you signals of attraction, by the way - is a large part of your attraction for them.

 

Whether you like the advice or not, whether you have any intention of acknowledging it even, it's still relevant advice.

Edited September 19, 2014 by serial muse

[PJKino]

That's a gross mischaracterization of what people are saying. Not being a social butterfly /= having absolutely no friends at all, and no interest in having any!

 

The point is that someone who actively rejects the idea of seeking out friendships as having nothing worthwhile in it for him is not going to be attractive to very many women, if any.

 

Also, I do not think that saying so is off-topic at all. SD, you are talking about becoming more picky, and wondering if that's going to be an issue, and people are trying to point out to you that this attitude about friends is not in your own best interest when it comes to finding someone to date. These women you're attracted to - I'll bet not a single one of them has no friends. I'll bet that, in fact, despite your assertion to the contrary, their cheerfulness and outgoingness - and your desire for them to be outgoing enough to give you signals of attraction, by the way - is a large part of your attraction for them.

 

Whether you like the advice or not, whether you have any intention of acknowledging it even, it's still relevant advice.

 

I agree the no friends thing is odd and not condusive to attracting women..It just seemed like women on here were saying you must be this life of the party person to attract them

[serial muse]

I agree the no friends thing is odd and not condusive to attracting women..It just seemed like women on here were saying you must be this life of the party person to attract them

 

I really don't see where anybody said that.

[somedude81]

That's a gross mischaracterization of what people are saying. Not being a social butterfly /= having absolutely no friends at all, and no interest in having any!

 

The point is that someone who actively rejects the idea of seeking out friendships as having nothing worthwhile in it for him is not going to be attractive to very many women, if any.

 

 

So back when I was actively seeing friends, and I had both male and female friends in my life, I was very attractive to women?

 

How come I was still single? How come other guys who have friends struggle with getting women?

 

 

Also, I do not think that saying so is off-topic at all. SD, you are talking about becoming more picky, and wondering if that's going to be an issue, and people are trying to point out to you that this attitude about friends is not in your own best interest when it comes to finding someone to date. These women you're attracted to - I'll bet not a single one of them has no friends.

 

I'm sure all of them have friends. That's just how women are socialized and raised. The loan wolf person is always a man. Women are always talking to each other.

 

I'll bet that, in fact, despite your assertion to the contrary, their cheerfulness and outgoingness - and your desire for them to be outgoing enough to give you signals of attraction, by the way - is a large part of your attraction for them.

 

Cheerfulness yes, outgoingness no. I don't expect women to go up to me and make conversation. Nor does a woman have to outgoing when she subconsciously conveys signs of interest. If I interact with a woman, and she reacts in a positive way, it's not because she's outgoing.

 

 

 

That's why I mentioned making sure the sex is really good. Not counting real life experience, I have seen a ton of threads on here by women complaining about some guy, but they won't leave because the sex is so good. You want to be that guy.

 

That really depends on how important sex is to the woman.

 

My ex really enjoyed having sex with me and I often completely wore her out but overall sex wasn't a big deal to her. Her sex drive was completely dependent on the man in her life. If her man didn't want sex, or she was single, she'd would have zero interest in anything sexual.

 

I do hope my next girlfriend is different and not completely reactionary.

[Imajerk17]

To add on what the others are saying, it isn't so much that you need to 'make friends' per se--that you are 33 and the other guys in your class are only 22 or younger means you probably won't be hanging out with them outside of class. You do have to give women some idea though, that you care more about other people and the world around you than merely getting a girlfriend or getting to have sex.

 

Women aren't psychic. But if you're only friendly and flirty with the cute girl or two in your class and you are sullen with everyone else, then people are going to pick up on that and will be turned off.

 

I know a guy in my CrossFit box who is quite popular. Thing is, he's short. There is also quite an age difference obstacle--most of the women there are in their 20s and 30s and he is in his early 50s. Yet women there flirt with him. Why? He is cool confident, and friendly (without trying too hard) with everyone. That other people enjoy talking with him--and he enjoying talking with other people--shows the women that he is a fun decent guy and that they'd enjoy interacting with him. If he were single I'd wing for him--but he's not.

 

So anyway, getting back to specific advice. Ask the girl out in your surfing class next time you see her, as Lucky Lady suggested. Meanwhile though, t's not going to kill you to show some interest in the other people in your class and their progress and say 'Nice ride bro' or something when they stand up on a wave.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Imajerk17

[serial muse]

So back when I was actively seeing friends, and I had both male and female friends in my life, I was very attractive to women?

 

How come I was still single? How come other guys who have friends struggle with getting women?

 

Also a gross mischaracterization of the point. Exactly nobody has said having friends is the silver bullet. But disdaining having them because they don't provide sex is a one-way express ticket to lonelytown.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure all of them have friends. That's just how women are socialized and raised. The loan wolf person is always a man. Women are always talking to each other.

 

Nonsense. Plenty of men have given you the exact same advice - men with friends. You just refuse to hear what you don't want.

 

 

 

Cheerfulness yes, outgoingness no. I don't expect women to go up to me and make conversation. Nor does a woman have to outgoing when she subconsciously conveys signs of interest. If I interact with a woman, and she reacts in a positive way, it's not because she's outgoing.

 

Point remains you won't date a shy girl. I suspect your "cheerful" *is* my "outgoing".

[carhill]

Also a gross mischaracterization of the point. Exactly nobody has said having friends is the silver bullet. But disdaining having them because they don't provide sex is a one-way express ticket to lonelytown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nonsense. Plenty of men have given you the exact same advice - men with friends. You just refuse to hear what you don't want.

 

 

 

 

 

Point remains you won't date a shy girl. I suspect your "cheerful" *is* my "outgoing".

 

It appears, in the quoted posting below, that the OP has both had many friends in his life and, apparently in contrast to your assertions, the only other time the word 'shy' was mentioned in this thread, was thus:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/493848-becoming-more-picky-about-looks#post5902291

 

"I've had many many platonic female friends in my life. From 18 to 31, all my interactions with women were nothing beyond the friendship level. Before 18, I was simply too shy to talk to girls."

 

He made no mention in this thread of refusing to date or have contact with shy women. He did mention that before 18 *he* was too shy to talk to girls.

 

 

My read is he's tried the suggestions of many here, to no avail, and is now trying something else. OP, my advice to you, as a fellow man, is to be firm in your convictions, once you've made a decision, and don't be wavered by the opinions of others. Sure, some won't like you. In fact you may find them to despise you. That's OK! That's what being a man is all about. You've tried not picky. You've tried being friends first. You've tried approaching women who turned out to be with someone else at the time. You know the results of those interactions. If it's time to be picky, it's time. Be picky. Accept no substitutes nor compromises. If it does work out, that. If not, that.

[somedude81]

To add on what the others are saying, it isn't so much that you need to 'make friends' per se--that you are 33 and the other guys in your class are only 22 or younger means you probably won't be hanging out with them outside of class. You do have to give women some idea though, that you care more about other people and the world around you than merely getting a girlfriend or getting to have sex.

 

Women aren't psychic. But if you're only friendly and flirty with the cute girl or two in your class and you are sullen with everyone else, then people are going to pick up on that and will be turned off.

 

I know a guy in my CrossFit box who is quite popular. Thing is, he's short. There is also quite an age difference obstacle--most of the women there are in their 20s and 30s and he is in his early 50s. Yet women there flirt with him. Why? He is cool confident, and friendly (without trying too hard) with everyone. That other people enjoy talking with him--and he enjoying talking with other people--shows the women that he is a fun decent guy and that they'd enjoy interacting with him. If he were single I'd wing for him--but he's not.

 

So anyway, getting back to specific advice. Ask the girl out in your surfing class next time you see her, as Lucky Lady suggested. Meanwhile though, t's not going to kill you to show some interest in the other people in your class and their progress and say 'Nice ride bro' or something when they stand up on a wave.

 

Just because I don't go out of my way to make friends with guys doesn't mean that I'm sullen with everybody who isn't a cute girl.

 

How do you guys keep managing to jump to these conclusions?

[somedude81]

It appears, in the quoted posting below, that the OP has both had many friends in his life and, apparently in contrast to your assertions, the only other time the word 'shy' was mentioned in this thread, was thus:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/493848-becoming-more-picky-about-looks#post5902291

 

"I've had many many platonic female friends in my life. From 18 to 31, all my interactions with women were nothing beyond the friendship level. Before 18, I was simply too shy to talk to girls."

 

He made no mention in this thread of refusing to date or have contact with shy women. He did mention that before 18 *he* was too shy to talk to girls.

 

 

My read is he's tried the suggestions of many here, to no avail, and is now trying something else. OP, my advice to you, as a fellow man, is to be firm in your convictions, once you've made a decision, and don't be wavered by the opinions of others. Sure, some won't like you. In fact you may find them to despise you. That's OK! That's what being a man is all about. You've tried not picky. You've tried being friends first. You've tried approaching women who turned out to be with someone else at the time. You know the results of those interactions. If it's time to be picky, it's time. Be picky. Accept no substitutes nor compromises. If it does work out, that. If not, that.

 

Thank you carhill. Many people seem to ignore what I say and seem to just talk about their preconceived notions of me. That's really frustrating for me to deal with.

 

Yes, I will be firm. I know that being friends first with women does not work. I'm not going to try it again hoping that it will be different next time because people on the forum have suggested it to me.

 

Regarding the topic of friends, I do realize that for some reason, having an active social life makes a man more attractive to a woman. I don't know why that is, and will just think of it as another mystery of women.

[carhill]

Something else to consider too, and I respect that you're younger and in reproduction mode, is the health of living your life at the altar of what is popular and/or what women are attracted to. There is a balance to be struck between personal health and social health, respecting that humans are social creatures. Sure, 'fit in' but not at significant personal cost or sacrifice. If you feel you're overreaching, then perhaps that social group is not for you and others may be more compatible. I mention this not only in the realm of romantic pursuits but also in business associations, friendships and human interactions of all realms. Do value others; don't lose yourself in that process. I'll leave it at that and wish you well in your pursuits.

[Imajerk17]

Just because I don't go out of my way to make friends with guys doesn't mean that I'm sullen with everybody who isn't a cute girl.

 

How do you guys keep managing to jump to these conclusions?

 

Well, to answer your question, people read into quotes like these:

 

Since I have to put in a lot of effort to make myself talk to people, there has to be some sort of payoff for me.

 

That said, I'll talk to anybody nearby just to avoid an awkward silence. But I'd only spend time with somebody if sex is a possibility.

 

Whether that is really you out in the world or not (maybe it is not), those quotes don't reflect someone who is cool shooting the breeze or sharing positive energy with someone he won't be dating.

[Anela]

A guy I used to know, but no longer speak to, was in the same boat, only he was tall and employed, and still had trouble with women.

 

He was a loner, and eventually, what helped him was going out with guys he knew from work. He went to house parties, started to take things like "E", and generally turned into a guy that I don't like, but he finally had some success with women. Why? Because he was socializing, and his friends helped him out.

 

THAT is what others have been trying to point out to him. And this guy was thirty-five. Please don't come back with, "Yes, but he was tall.."

[thefooloftheyear]

I get where some of you ladies are coming from...but cmon girls, lets be honest here.....

 

 

A good looking and desirable guy can be a "Lone Wolf" type and have women crawling all over him..Happens every day in every locale..

 

 

If a guy is just an average schmuck, then he cant play the role of the hot "Lone Wolf" type...he is just going to come off as a creepy loner and social misfit...So looks here DO play an important role..

 

Its no different with attitude and personality....Many women find douchey and arrogant guys sexy iif they are hot....if they arent, then they are just looked at as aszholes....

 

 

TFY

[guest569]

I see a difference between someone who is a quiet loner and someone who is anti social. I dont mind if i am dating a loner type. But someone who says "i wouldn't talk to anyone unless sex is on the cards" to me, sounds anti social.

[BlueIris]

I get where some of you ladies are coming from...but cmon girls, lets be honest here.....

 

 

A good looking and desirable guy can be a "Lone Wolf" type and have women crawling all over him..Happens every day in every locale..

 

 

If a guy is just an average schmuck, then he cant play the role of the hot "Lone Wolf" type...he is just going to come off as a creepy loner and social misfit...So looks here DO play an improtant role..

 

Its no different with attitude and personality....Many women find douchey and arrogant guys sexy iif they are hot....if they arent, then they are just looked at as aszholes....

 

 

TFY

 

Looks play an important role for initial attraction, not for sustaining a relationship for more than a date or a few. Over time, women who have the most options because of their looks and personality have learned this well and start make first round cuts on personality too.

[thefooloftheyear]

I see a difference between someone who is a quiet loner and someone who is anti social. I dont mind if i am dating a loner type. But someone who says "i wouldn't talk to anyone unless sex is on the cards" to me, sounds anti social.

 

 

Of course it does....Thats creepy as hell.....

 

Its just that my point is that a guy who is good looking and desirable, but chooses to be a bit of a loner isnt going to be staving for female attention...Ive seen it a thousand times over..

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

Looks play an important role for initial attraction, not for sustaining a relationship for more than a date or a few. Over time, women who have the most options because of their looks and personality have learned this well and start make first round cuts on personality too.

 

 

All I will say is that while I wouldnt discount your own personal experiences... I cant say that I have seen the same in my own life...

 

I dont know him personally, but I have heard that Tom Brady is just about the most arrogant douchebag that you will ever meet...He certainly comes across that way in interviews..but I cant say..

 

I guess Giselle Bundchen didnt have a lot of options...so she settled ...

 

TFY

[somedude81]

I see a difference between someone who is a quiet loner and someone who is anti social. I dont mind if i am dating a loner type. But someone who says "i wouldn't talk to anyone unless sex is on the cards" to me, sounds anti social.

 

Please quote my orginial post where I said "i wouldn't talk to anyone unless sex is on the cards"

 

I'm here all day so I'll wait for you to find it

[Anela]

I get where some of you ladies are coming from...but cmon girls, lets be honest here.....

 

 

A good looking and desirable guy can be a "Lone Wolf" type and have women crawling all over him..Happens every day in every locale..

 

They weren't crawling all over the guy I mentioned. He was more bitter and angry than I realized, when I first started getting to know him - good-looking, tall, educated, employed. Still complaining about not being good enough for women.

 

He's the one who screwed with my head, so excuse me if I don't cry for anyone who thinks the way he did.

 

If a guy is just an average schmuck, then he cant play the role of the hot "Lone Wolf" type...he is just going to come off as a creepy loner and social misfit...So looks here DO play an important role..

 

Its no different with attitude and personality....Many women find douchey and arrogant guys sexy iif they are hot....if they arent, then they are just looked at as aszholes....

 

 

TFY

 

Nope, this guy ended up just being an ******* to me. I loathe him.

[Imajerk17]

Well somedude81, take this post as from someone who is rooting for you to do well. As I said before, I struggled....

 

Here's the thing though. People give advice to you (and to other people) not only based on your specific question, but on their impression of you, going by your other posts as well. We just cannot separate that.

 

In posts #151 and #152 of this thread (page 11) you were quoted as saying that you needed a payoff to talk to people, and that you wouldn't hang out with someone unless sex is in the cards. That sounds to *me* anyway that you don't value connections with other people unless it leads to something sexual/romantic happening. It's why I suggested that you were "sullen" with people around you. Far as any of us knows you might not be. Maybe you meant something different by it?

 

There's an interesting chicken-and-egg thing going on. People get frustrated because they feel that, after you ask for advice, that you are ignoring their suggestions or insisting "it won't work", and doing the same thing over and over again. You saw this on your last thread. You, I am going to guess, get frustrated with the advice you get on here because you feel that you've already tried a version of it and it hasn't worked.

 

Granted, making friends with a girl you want more with and hoping it turns to more (either at the onset or a few months into the "friendship") is a poor strategy. We've told you that already though, and told you to take your move sooner. And I for one am not going to peddle hard the idea that you try to "hang out" with the guys you see on campus--too much of an age gap. If you really want to get to dating, you could revise your OLD profile as we suggested in one of your threads and if you target the "average" girls, you'd be getting dates. That's such low-hanging fruit but you never ended up doing that.

 

Anyway getting back to specific advice, suggest next class you and the girl you have your eye on in surfing class get together to surf. Either she says yes or you can forget her. Sounds like you have a lot on your plate this semester anyway. Good luck!

[guest569]

In posts #151 and #152 of this thread (page 11) you were quoted as saying that you needed a payoff to talk to people, and that you wouldn't hang out with someone unless sex is in the cards. That sounds to *me* anyway that you don't value connections with other people unless it leads to something sexual/romantic happening.

 

Thats the one.

 

Im just not really sure what you are after.. you are overthinking far too much. You analyse every action and every word. Less thinking and more doing is what I say. It's something that should be enjoyable, and frankly if you don't want to get to know people unless there is a payoff, you're going to struggle finding a partner with that attitude. You're thinking of these experiences as a waste of time because you didn't get "laid" but they're not.

Edited September 20, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator