Becoming more picky about looks?

[somedude81]

Just ask her out and be done with it. You're too scared to make a move.

 

I'm trying to build some sort of interest in her to me so I don't get an instant no.

Edited September 26, 2014 by somedude81

[Cristo]

I'm trying to build some sort of interest in her to me so I don't get an instant no.

 

That's how you end up in the friendzone. She doesn't know that you're doing that.

 

Ask her out first. If she turns you down and is willing to be friends, do it. At that point, she knows your motives and will be more likely to come around and start liking you.

 

This has happened to me multiple times before. I know what I'm talking about.

[BlueIris]

FWIW, I don't think you should be "friends" with women you are romantically interested in. I think that is a horrible strategy and so do most other people. You should instead go for dating these women.

 

HOWEVER some people are telling you that you should consider friendship with women you are not romantically into (AND men). Most of us meet our s/o's through our social network and a healthy social network will help your cause.

 

There's a distinction between being friendly and conversational and "being friends." Being friendly and conversational is a good start for establishing rapport with a new person, and a heck of a lot of time even 10-30 minutes of conversation is enough to realize you don't want to date her. Men who come on all strutting and caveman (extreme overstatement, but just to illustrate the vibe women sometimes get) and don't want to talk with me or establish rapport but are so dead set on getting a girlfriend and that's all, can also have a negative effect, the worst effect. I think you can be and should be conversational and still have an undercurrent of attraction and flirting before asking someone out.

[Tayken]

^ Communication will always be paramount be it in business or personal life. Ignore it at your peril

[BlueIris]

^ Communication will always be paramount be it in business or personal life. Ignore it at your peril

 

So true.

 

I'm trying to build some sort of interest in her to me so I don't get an instant no.

 

Be careful that you’re not doing a sales pitch and that you’re talking with her to exchange and learn about each other, not to convince her to sell her something. I can tell when a man is trying to persuade me and sell himself rather than getting to know me, and I prefer the latter.

[Cristo]

There's a distinction between being friendly and conversational and "being friends." Being friendly and conversational is a good start for establishing rapport with a new person, and a heck of a lot of time even 10-30 minutes of conversation is enough to realize you don't want to date her. Men who come on all strutting and caveman (extreme overstatement, but just to illustrate the vibe women sometimes get) and don't want to talk with me or establish rapport but are so dead set on getting a girlfriend and that's all, can also have a negative effect, the worst effect. I think you can be and should be conversational and still have an undercurrent of attraction and flirting before asking someone out.

 

Yes and you have to know the line by gaining experience.

 

Please don't cause SD to over-analyze the situation any more than he already has lol.

[Els]

Rephrased - Making friends is easy

 

If it is so easy, why do you have no male friends at all?

 

And yet people keep trying to focus solely on making friends.

 

Because this is usually the first step to a relationship. Mutual friends introduce people to each other, invite you out to group events where you meet people, etc. If I hadn't had any friends, I would have missed out on the majority of my relationships, including my current one. We were introduced by mutual friends. Without them we would not have met.

[somedude81]

Sometimes I feel like you guys are just trying to mess with me.

[Anela]

Sometimes I feel like you guys are just trying to mess with me.

 

The feeling has occasionally been mutual.

[Teknoe]

Sometimes I feel like you guys are just trying to mess with me.

 

I'm not understanding why people suggesting you to make platonic friends (of both genders) is "messing with you." Because:

 

A. It's healthy, and would be healthy for you.

B. It's how many people have branched out to other relationships. Friends can introduce you to someone else.

C. It never hurts to have someone walk alongside you in this journey called life

 

The fact that you are so resistant to forming friendships (especially with males) would be a huge red flag to any potential dating partner. That is just the truth. Again, it's one thing to have a few acquaintances. It's another thing to be COMPLETELY isolated.

 

If you can't name at least one guy friend (not family related) that you could call up in a pinch to shoot the breeze or go hang out with, then perhaps it's an area of your life you ought to consider working on.

 

Heck, if nothing else, a guy friend could give you some advice (the very thing you seek online) but instead, you can get feedback INSTANTLY in person.

 

But I suspect you like the anonymity the internet provides, and the fact that it's easy to filter through what you want to. With a real friend in real life hanging out with you, you can't quite easily dodge the hard questions.

 

Anyway, let's switch gears. I know you're tired of hearing about friends, so I'll address something you originally wrote on your own.

 

 

I'm trying to build some sort of interest in her to me so I don't get an instant no.

 

I get it. But answer this:

 

What about you, as a 33 year old guy, would make her, a girl in her early 20s, interested in you?

 

It's a serious question that you should seriously answer.

 

What do you offer a young college girl that is different from any other guy?

 

Are you handsome?

 

Do you sport a 6-pack?

 

Are you making 6 figures?

 

Do you have lots of life experience, thus offering her some wisdom and adventure in life?

 

Can you cook? Can you wow her with your amazing dishes and recipes?

 

Are you good with little kids? Can you impress her with your nurturing side?

 

Are you a great poet? Can you impress her with your romantic wit and language?

 

Do you have a tight-knit social circle that can keep a girl on her toes and help keep things fresh?

 

What makes you stand out from the crowd that would get a girl interested in you? After all, you said you wanted to get a girl interested in you so you wouldn't get an instant NO from her.

 

So you have to ask yourself, what are you doing with your life right now that would draw in a girl's interest?

[Els]

Sometimes I feel like you guys are just trying to mess with me.

 

Because the suggestion of making friends is so very ludicrous?

[Imajerk17]

What do you think of KaliLove's post that possibly the girl wasn't interested in me at all and was just looking for a friend, then she got the idea that I'm interested in her as more than a friend so she is backing off?

 

Did you see the post I made where I ran into her outside the math lab?

 

I did indeed see yours and Kali's post and there is the possibility that she was being friendly. Hard to tell and that's the thing. It doesn't invalidate the other viewpoints--such as clia's, that said that you could have handled the whole exchange to set up a date better. And that this might have been what made her become not interested. Might.

 

A more assertive approach at the time and there wouldn't be any wondering. You never know what would have happened if you and Girl B had spent a whole evening together hanging out and dancing.

 

Let me tell you a story. A while ago a woman at CrossFit was (I thought at the time anyway) flirting heavily w me at class (one class she usually went at a different time). So I said let's make plans to hang out. She said she was married! So yes, I did all the things recommended and I got turned down for the date. The difference is that I was bold and decisive so I wasn't left wondering. I got my answer in an hour.

 

In general, I think you would have much better results with dating if you would consider the tougher suggestions that you are getting, e.g. Girl B, "did I come across not interested or passive and could that really have turned her off? OK next time I will try being more assertive". You are a very smart guy but you use your intelligence trying to argue that anything that doesn't jibe with how you've seen things can't be right, or cannot work for you. It's holding you back man.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Imajerk17

[KaliLove]

I did indeed see yours and Kali's post and there is the possibility that she was being friendly. Hard to tell and that's the thing. It doesn't invalidate the other viewpoints--such as clia's, that said that you could have handled the whole exchange to set up a date better. And that this might have been what made her become not interested. Might.

 

A more assertive approach at the time and there wouldn't be any wondering. You never know what would have happened if you and Girl B had spent a whole evening together hanging out and dancing.

 

Let me tell you a story. A while ago a woman at CrossFit was (I thought at the time anyway) flirting heavily w me at class (one class she usually went at a different time). So I said let's make plans to hang out. She said she was married! So yes, I did all the things recommended and I got turned down for the date. The difference is that I was bold and decisive so I wasn't left wondering. I got my answer in an hour.

 

In general, I think you would have much better results with dating if you would consider the tougher suggestions that you are getting, e.g. Girl B, "did I come across not interested or passive and could that really have turned her off? OK next time I will try being more assertive". You are a very smart guy but you use your intelligence trying to argue that anything that doesn't jibe with how you've seen things can't be right, or cannot work for you. It's holding you back man.

 

Oh no..my post wasn't gospel. How could I possibly know what she was thinking? I was suggesting that as a possibility. I still don't think you handled it very well SD.

[somedude81]

I just got back from swing dancing and girl A was there.

 

As I predicted she came with a guy and one girl. Judging how she interacted with the guy it doesn't seem like he was her boyfriend.

 

I danced with her a few times and talked to her a bit as well. I also danced with other girls to not crowd her.

 

Looking back how she was with me, she isn't interested in me right now. The biggest clue about that was that her, the other girl and I went to a smaller room for a Tango lesson. And as soon as that lesson was over, she and the girl took off without saying a word to me. I'm chalking that off as young woman flaky behavior, but if she was interested in me, I'm pretty sure she would have remembered that I was in the room with her.

 

Still I sense some potential with this girl and possibly something can grow. She is extremely comfortable with me. While dancing she kept telling me to hold her tighter and then she did a Freudian slip and said that it feels good when I hold her tight and she got all embarrassed saying that there wasn't a way for her to say it without it being weird. So now I know I can hold her however I want while dancing.

 

Monday I want to show some interest in her. I'm planning on asking if that guy was her boyfriend. Hopefully her answer will be "I don't have a boyfriend." Then I can proceed. If she's single, then I am going to invite her to go Salsa dancing with me sometime in the week.

 

If she says yes, awesome. If she says no, I'm not sure what to do at that point.

[yajiuma]

By all means ask her on Monday-that way you'll know for sure, but her behaviour you described is not typical of someone "interested in you" romantically. She probably would have sought out more opportunities to make small talk with you otherwise during the night.

 

However this:

She is extremely comfortable with me

could be the start of great friendship;)

[Tayken]

I just got back from swing dancing and girl A was there.

 

As I predicted she came with a guy and one girl. Judging how she interacted with the guy it doesn't seem like he was her boyfriend.

 

I danced with her a few times and talked to her a bit as well. I also danced with other girls to not crowd her.

 

Looking back how she was with me, she isn't interested in me right now. The biggest clue about that was that her, the other girl and I went to a smaller room for a Tango lesson. And as soon as that lesson was over, she and the girl took off without saying a word to me. I'm chalking that off as young woman flaky behavior, but if she was interested in me, I'm pretty sure she would have remembered that I was in the room with her.

 

Still I sense some potential with this girl and possibly something can grow. She is extremely comfortable with me. While dancing she kept telling me to hold her tighter and then she did a Freudian slip and said that it feels good when I hold her tight and she got all embarrassed saying that there wasn't a way for her to say it without it being weird. So now I know I can hold her however I want while dancing.

 

Monday I want to show some interest in her. I'm planning on asking if that guy was her boyfriend. Hopefully her answer will be "I don't have a boyfriend." Then I can proceed. If she's single, then I am going to invite her to go Salsa dancing with me sometime in the week.

 

If she says yes, awesome. If she says no, I'm not sure what to do at that point.

 

It's what you want to make yourself believe. Just because people aren't sucking each others face off, smacking each others bum in your presence, doesn't mean they might not be an item.

 

It all comes down to who is going home with whom in the end. Yes she danced with you and you danced with other girls....so what?

 

Am sure you know that married adults that take part in dance classes, dance with other peoples spouse, and it's not uncommon for someone to cut in during a dance at a ball. I know I have done it

[somedude81]

It's what you want to make yourself believe. Just because people aren't sucking each others face off, smacking each others bum in your presence, doesn't mean they might not be an item.

 

It all comes down to who is going home with whom in the end. Yes she danced with you and you danced with other girls....so what?

 

Am sure you know that married adults that take part in dance classes, dance with other peoples spouse, and it's not uncommon for someone to cut in during a dance at a ball. I know I have done it

 

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Did you read the rest of my post where I planned on asking her on Monday if that guy was her boyfriend?

[somedude81]

By all means ask her on Monday-that way you'll know for sure, but her behaviour you described is not typical of someone "interested in you" romantically. She probably would have sought out more opportunities to make small talk with you otherwise during the night.

 

Yes, I feel that she isn't romantically interested in me. But I want to build up that interest in her. Frankly, no woman would be interested in me right away. I could ask out every single girl in my class on Monday and all of them would say no. But there is a chance that I'd get a different result at the end of the semester. Feelings for me could develop in somebody. I'm just now sure how to move that along.

 

 

However this:

could be the start of great friendship;)

 

Ha ha.

 

I'm way too attracted to her to be just a friend. I can already us imagine spending time together just as friends, and her giving a rejection once I inevitably develop strong feelings.

 

Played that game one to many times.

[thefooloftheyear]

Yes, I feel that she isn't romantically interested in me. But I want to build up that interest in her. Frankly, no woman would be interested in me right away. I could ask out every single girl in my class on Monday and all of them would say no. But there is a chance that I'd get a different result at the end of the semester. Feelings for me could develop in somebody. I'm just now sure how to move that along.

 

 

 

 

Ha ha.

 

I'm way too attracted to her to be just a friend. I can already us imagine spending time together just as friends, and her giving a rejection once I inevitably develop strong feelings.

 

Played that game one to many times.

 

 

Yeah...after you help them move some heavy furniture into their new apartment or fix their car, they'll give you a nice pat on the back and send you on your way...Awesome.!!....

 

TFY

[somedude81]

Yeah...after you help them move some heavy furniture into their new apartment or fix their car, they'll give you a nice pat on the back and send you on your way...Awesome.!!....

 

TFY

 

And of course the other guy helping her move spends the rest of the day having sex with her.

[xxoo]

Monday I want to show some interest in her. I'm planning on asking if that guy was her boyfriend. Hopefully her answer will be "I don't have a boyfriend." Then I can proceed. If she's single, then I am going to invite her to go Salsa dancing with me sometime in the week.

 

If she says yes, awesome. If she says no, I'm not sure what to do at that point.

 

Continue being friendly, but keep her at arm's length. Don't seek one on one company with her, but don't ignore her when she's present in class or an event. Just treat her like one of the guys. If you had guy friends, this would be a clearer analogy.

[somedude81]

Continue being friendly, but keep her at arm's length. Don't seek one on one company with her, but don't ignore her when she's present in class or an event. Just treat her like one of the guys. If you had guy friends, this would be a clearer analogy.

 

What is the purpose of treating her like one of the guys and not trying to be alone with her?

[Teknoe]

I want to build up that interest in her.

 

What do you have to offer that would compel a woman to be interested in you?

 

Frankly, no woman would be interested in me right away.

 

Why do you say this? Can you elaborate on it?

 

Feelings for me could develop in somebody. I'm just now sure how to move that along.

 

OK, I'm going to equate this to nailing a job interview. Of course, it's not quite the same, but I do believe some of the key principles are.

 

When you're applying for a "hot" job (like you do when you "go after" a "hot" woman), you won't be the only applicant. In fact, there will be tons more out there, just like you. Some would be highly more qualified. Others would be an equal level playing field as you. So the question becomes, what about your resume, WHAT ABOUT YOU, that stands out from the rest? What do YOU bring to the table that would be a good fit for the company (or woman, to continue the analogy along).

 

In the working world, a lot of times it's who you know and who can go "to bat" for you that could make the difference between you getting the job or not. With human beings, it's sort of the same. So many couples I knew where they were introduced to each other through friends.

 

In other words, it pays to have connections, both in relationships and in your career. Social networking. By having none, you are seriously handicapping yourself.

 

Next, I'll give you a concrete example. My current job I have, I didn't have a connection. I got it through my own strengths and abilities. For years I had built up my resume, subbing wherever I could. I subbed for grades Kindergarten all the way up to 8th grade. I was versatile, flexible, young, hungry and generally, people LIKED me. I develop a good rapport with the students and the staff at the school district I subbed at. I also earned a 5-star parent review on YELP which spoke highly of my knowledge and capability in the field of teaching. When my full-time teaching job opportunity came 2 years ago, I had built up a strong resume. I had powerful letters of recommendation (you can think of LoR as good friends who can vouch for you to single girls) and even a glowing 5 star review on Yelp. I was clearly active, serious about my career and skilled at what I do.

 

I wasn't complacent. I kept growing. I turned down no sub jobs. I took every single one, because I saw each one as a learning opportunity, and I didn't see any one sub job as "too beneath" me. (One could make this into a dating analogy of go on as many dates as you can, and don't discriminate... it's just one date after all. It doesn't mean you lock yourself with that person for a dating relationship over the span of 6 months, it's just one date). I was serious about my craft, and as a result I grew and learned a lot in that half-year before I got hired.

 

A company (and a potential dating partner) looks for the right person they feel they can INVEST in. They're looking for long term potential as much as they are looking to fill the spot for that year. What do you bring to the table that separates you from every other Regular Joe out there?

 

That's almost how you have to think and approach getting a career job. And in some or even many respects, I feel it's similar with attracting women. For most girls, they have many suitors at any one time. What makes you stand out from the 5-6 other guys all gunning for her?

[Teknoe]

What is the purpose of treating her like one of the guys and not trying to be alone with her?

 

I know, it sounds weird, and it sounds counter-productive, but it actually is productive. The reason why is because she will see you as a CHALLENGE. You will leave some room for mystery, and you might seem like a harder chase. Think about it. How many single guys are dying to spend alone time with her in hopes to "spark something up" ? Sound familiar... it's your mentality right now.

 

Girls, though, can easily sense desperation, and it's a turn-off.

 

The idea is, just like in show business, ALWAYS LEAVE THEM WANTING A LITTLE MORE.

 

It can build up the intrigue, mystery and excitement of the next time when they might see you.

 

But if you're all up in their grill 24/7, or always finding "oops convenient excuses" to interact with her 1 on 1, girls will know right away. They're much more intuitive about these things than some guys would like to admit. The second she senses your attraction, and if she has none for you, that's the second you've lost the battle.

 

Whereas, if you play it cool, treat her as one of the guys (i.e. rib on her a bit, but don't overdo it), she might see you as a cool guy, someone she wouldn't mind spending some time with. And then, it's possible attraction may build.

 

Pounce too fast, and the deer runs away.

 

You're just going to have to trust us on this one. I found out myself the hard way, because I used to think "If I spend lots of 1 on 1 time with her, she's bound to fall in love with me."

 

That's usually not true; life isn't a romantic comedy. The result I've found from personal experience is my feelings grow stronger while her friendship feelings are further reinforced.

 

As best as you can, do not seek her out purposely one on one. Let it happen naturally. I know it's going to be hard for you, but it wouldn't kill you to do a different approach.

[somedude81]

I know, it sounds weird, and it sounds counter-productive, but it actually is productive. The reason why is because she will see you as a CHALLENGE.

 

No she wont!

 

She'll see me as not interested in her. Who knows how many other guys in her life are keeping her at arms length and treating her like one of the guys.

 

Honestly, that advice from xxoo seems really bad. I'd love to hear and explanation that makes sense.