death in MM's family

[whatatangledweb]

I don't know why he doesn't tell you it's over. Since the beginning of Sept. he has been showing you it is over. No, he may not switch back to negative feelings towards his wife. It depends on why he has changed. I'm sorry but you are drawing out your pain by holding on to hope. Unfortately I don't see a happy ending for you with him.

[beach]

Many people would never actually say it's over - especially those who are conflict avoidant types.

 

 

But I think it says a lot that he had time to spend talking to many other people but didn't search you out to talk with you. It's evidently not his priority.

[whichwayisup]

The frustrating thing is even though I can be extra sensitive, most of the time if people don't like me, I couldn't care less but it bothers me with him and I want to talk about it.

 

He knows this and that's why he's avoiding speaking to you, opening that door so you can 'talk'. In his own way he's shown you it's over. He is hoping you'll just accept it and leave him alone. He knows how fragile you can be so for him it's easier this way than to deal with your reaction, your anxiety etc...

 

He hasn't made any effort to speak to you, to update you about his life. He's shut the door.

 

Actions speak louder than words and in your situation, that silence is screaming.

 

I really hope you let go of him.

[Scarlet2]

His actions are speaking louder than words but some of his actions are contradicting some of his other actions and that's why I keep falling back on his words. I know no one believes this but he really doesn't lie to me. If it's a situation where he doesn't want to tell me the truth, he'll just rather not say anything at all, therefore the words he does speak really is the truth.

 

My anxiety has been off the wall the past couple of days and I'm regressing big time when I thought I was doing good. Today I wanted to get with him so that I could apologize for causing him conflict within himself and his family and his faith and ruining our friendship by saying yes to the affair, and for making him feel uncomfortable since he can't bare to look at me or talk to me in public, and for any resentment he may have towards me when all I did was give him what he wanted, and so I asked to see him so that I could do this. He didn't say no but he didn't say yes either, he just listed everything he had to do today, so it wasn't going to happen, not today any way. On one hand it's good that he didn't want to only give me five minutes of his time but on the other, it's bad that he didn't want to give me any time either.

 

My current plan of action is to go back to being quiet and try to control my anxiety without reaching out for him. Let's see how long I last this time around...

[Mount]

I really do not understand why you can not let him go, leave the poor guy alone. Did you never hear that - a guy does not call you, because he does not want to call you/does not want to talk to you. NOT BECAUSE he is too shy to talk to you , or love you too much so that he bare to look at you or talk to you.

 

Why can't you still not get it? Don't make the guy avoding you like plague, have some decency pls.

 

 

 

His actions are speaking louder than words but some of his actions are contradicting some of his other actions and that's why I keep falling back on his words. I know no one believes this but he really doesn't lie to me. If it's a situation where he doesn't want to tell me the truth, he'll just rather not say anything at all, therefore the words he does speak really is the truth.

 

My anxiety has been off the wall the past couple of days and I'm regressing big time when I thought I was doing good. Today I wanted to get with him so that I could apologize for causing him conflict within himself and his family and his faith and ruining our friendship by saying yes to the affair, and for making him feel uncomfortable since he can't bare to look at me or talk to me in public, and for any resentment he may have towards me when all I did was give him what he wanted, and so I asked to see him so that I could do this. He didn't say no but he didn't say yes either, he just listed everything he had to do today, so it wasn't going to happen, not today any way. On one hand it's good that he didn't want to only give me five minutes of his time but on the other, it's bad that he didn't want to give me any time either.

 

My current plan of action is to go back to being quiet and try to control my anxiety without reaching out for him. Let's see how long I last this time around...

[whichwayisup]

His actions are speaking louder than words but some of his actions are contradicting some of his other actions and that's why I keep falling back on his words. I know no one believes this but he really doesn't lie to me. If it's a situation where he doesn't want to tell me the truth, he'll just rather not say anything at all, therefore the words he does speak really is the truth.

 

No, his actions ARE showing you what's what. I think you're reading into the smaller things and giving yourself hope. The big picture here - He's still very married and not leaving his wife. Ever. Scarlet, the sooner you understand and realize this, the better off you'll be. Make yourself detach from him. He's in your head way too much. This man is NOT interested anymore and you're wasting so much time obsessing about him when he is not thinking of you at all. Get mad, get fed up, say f-it and be done with him. If you can go more than one day focusing on other people in your life and NOT give him ANY thought, I think your anxiety will be less and you'll actually feel so much better.

 

My anxiety has been off the wall the past couple of days and I'm regressing big time when I thought I was doing good. Today I wanted to get with him so that I could apologize for causing him conflict within himself and his family and his faith and ruining our friendship by saying yes to the affair, and for making him feel uncomfortable since he can't bare to look at me or talk to me in public, and for any resentment he may have towards me when all I did was give him what he wanted, and so I asked to see him so that I could do this. He didn't say no but he didn't say yes either, he just listed everything he had to do today, so it wasn't going to happen, not today any way. On one hand it's good that he didn't want to only give me five minutes of his time but on the other, it's bad that he didn't want to give me any time either.

 

Just stop. All this really doesn't matter. There's nothing you can do or say. He's made his decision to let you go, he doesn't want to hear what you have to say. He's done.

 

My current plan of action is to go back to being quiet and try to control my anxiety without reaching out for him. Let's see how long I last this time around...

 

Your anxiety is all related to him. Start relieving your anxiety by doing yoga, meditation, brisk walks outside, put on music, have a hot bath. Stay away from sugars and caffeine (things that can make your anxiety worse) and most of all, change your thinking patterns. Be tough on yourself, those thoughts of him or anything to do with him, make yourself stop and change the scenery in your head. Think of anything but him. Get busier, volunteer, think of others during this time of year. Donate your time somewhere and make a difference in someone's life instead of focusing on your own problems.

 

It could help you see your situation from another view, a healthier view and one that opens your eyes so you can begin the process of letting go once and for all.

[anika99]

Scarlet this man is done with you. He has been avoiding you like the plague for 3 months now. Who refuses to communicate with their gf for 3 months? Nobody that's who. He is done and he wants you to go away. He could easily spare you a few minutes so that you could give him your speech but he isn't going to because he doesn't want to hear anything you have to say. He doesn't want to hear your tearful apologies and your declarations of love and friendship. He just wants you to take the hint and stop contacting him. He wouldn't even speak to you when he saw you the other day, he treated you like a stranger, like you weren't even a friend or an acquaintance, and yet you still went begging for attention from him. Please find your dignity and walk away from this.

[FusionCutter]

His actions are speaking louder than words but some of his actions are contradicting some of his other actions and that's why I keep falling back on his words. I know no one believes this but he really doesn't lie to me. If it's a situation where he doesn't want to tell me the truth, he'll just rather not say anything at all, therefore the words he does speak really is the truth.

 

My anxiety has been off the wall the past couple of days and I'm regressing big time when I thought I was doing good. Today I wanted to get with him so that I could apologize for causing him conflict within himself and his family and his faith and ruining our friendship by saying yes to the affair, and for making him feel uncomfortable since he can't bare to look at me or talk to me in public, and for any resentment he may have towards me when all I did was give him what he wanted, and so I asked to see him so that I could do this. He didn't say no but he didn't say yes either, he just listed everything he had to do today, so it wasn't going to happen, not today any way. On one hand it's good that he didn't want to only give me five minutes of his time but on the other, it's bad that he didn't want to give me any time either.

 

My current plan of action is to go back to being quiet and try to control my anxiety without reaching out for him. Let's see how long I last this time around...

 

You're just looking for an excuse to contact him. You can "apologize" to him by staying away.

[Scarlet2]

I really appreciate the feedback but we really can't assume what he's thinking, only he knows. In normal circumstances yes the signs would indicate that he's done but if he's doing everything that he's always done since the day I met him, there is no strong indicator that he's done until he actually says the words or goes completely silent and MIA.

 

If he had the balls to initiate an affair, he can have the balls to end it or even create a Dday so that I would be destroyed for good. He and I have had discussions before about hints and actions and how I get confused on if he's ignoring me on purpose or ignoring me to throw off suspicions and he flat out said he would tell me. Every time I've asked him if he wanted it to end he said no, just give him time. He asked for a break, if he wants it to be done I truly believe that he will say it.

 

We've always had limited contact, limited phone calls and text, the only real hint to take is when he stops talking to me completely and that hasn't happened yet. I could stay away and go completely no contact but then he might take that as a hint that I'm done and that's not what I want at all.

 

Yes the big picture is he is still married and I have to detach. Instead of him being my world he has to be treated as a toy that I take out of the box once in a while.

[FusionCutter]

Yes the big picture is he is still married and I have to detach. Instead of him being my world he has to be treated as a toy that I take out of the box once in a while.

 

Well if you truly have that view then keep taking him out of the box and keep hurting yourself.

 

Grown people don't treat these situations lightly and MM as "toys". You can see the big picture yet you refuse to accept it. It's like self-delusion to the max.

 

Reading your posts about how you keep crying and obsessing over this man makes me tired and weary. I'm beginning to think you enjoy the pain and crying and hurting, while being oblivious of your selfish actions towards his wife.

 

I'm done here.

 

Good luck to you and this MM toy of yours.

[georgia girl]

Scarlet,

 

 

I genuinely hate to see you torturing yourself over something that is genuinely over. Please remember that few relationships end in happily ever after, regardless of if its an affair or not. It's just the way life works. Two people become interested, they share something special but in the end, one falls out of love (or infatuation). That can happen over time or it can happen in an instant. The reality of life is that very, very few relationships end in happily ever after.

 

 

I do agree with the other posters. You're twisting yourself inside out, backwards and every which way you can to find hope and ignoring all of the evidence that this man is simply done. Even your last post (before this one), you start by describing how he won't lie to you, he just won't tell you the truth if he thinks its going to hurt you. Then, you describe how you asked to meet up so you can apologize. He doesn't say yes and he doesn't say no. He goes through a litany of things he needs to do that day. That's saying, "I don't want to see you, but I don't want to say it."

 

 

People who are in love make time for each other. People who are nostalgic about someone they used to feel fondly for may not necessarily make time for that person, but will be kind. People who have had their opinion forever altered about someone they used to care for (i.e. they think the person is hateful, manipulative, crazy, whatever) will get outright mean. Your MM is currently in the kind but unavailable stage. You keep pushing it and keep appearing desperate and needy and you'll change his opinion forever and he will get mean. That will hurt you immensely. Let go now and move on. Then you can always have fond memories.

 

 

Gently but firmly, this is over. No wishing, hoping or obsessing over every interaction can bring it back. Please seek some counseling to help you understand why you need to keep pursuing something that is over like this. It's only hurting you.

[Scarlet2]

He goes through a litany of things he needs to do that day. That's saying, "I don't want to see you, but I don't want to say it."

 

I hear that too when he says that and I have brought this up to him when it has happened before and his response is always the same, that he'd much rather spend the time with me but he has to get things done or things will start falling apart and he feels that he doesn't have to preface with reassurance because I should automatically know, but I'm not wired that way. You want to spend time with me but you're avoiding me because there are other priorities, which is fine, but how do other AP's do it, are they slackers or do they just have more free time than my MM? He really is a busy man and I can't fault him for having other obligations over me.

 

I've never had to deal with something like this before and I'm lost and confused and I am trying.

[georgia girl]

I have never been an OW so I can't tell you how it works in other relationships but it reads very loudly and clearly to me that you are making all sorts of excuses for him about why he doesn't have time for you. It's not for his benefit but for your own. If he is too busy, it means he still wants you.

 

This guy is a huge a$$. He will avoid you and be busy until you finally go away or he will one day explode and unload on you. Either way, you get nothing of what you want or need and waste a whole lot of time.

 

Scarlet, choose you. Pick you. Put your life back together. It is the ONLY way forward.

[solostand]

I can tell you how it worked for me as an OW. My MM MADE time for me, every day. He saw me every single day of the week, even if it meant driving 30 miles to my workplace just to say "hi". He visited my father with me. He came with me to family wakes. He phoned me faithfully three times a day. I could phone him anytime I wanted with no fear that I was bugging him. He took me places and did things with me. He was a busy man who ran a million dollar business, but he made time for me.When his brother dropped dead suddenly, I was the first person he called. We visited his grave together. When he was collapsing from blood poisoning, he called me. When he became a grandfather, he called me before his daughter was even out of the delivery room. I'm not saying my affair was perfect, but that is the way I was treated and you should accept nothing less.

 

It seems to me your MM is not invested in you at all. You really should let it go. Even if he told you once that he would tell you it was over, doesn't mean that he could stick to that. Maybe he's conflict avoidant and just can't say it, but he is showing you by his actions.

Edited December 6, 2014 by solostand

[spookysonata]

All this obsessing and wishing and hoping and endless analysis of the smallest details and nuances of his interactions with you, is putting HIM in control. Do you like this? Do you want him to have all the power till say whether "it's over"? YOU can have that power and you can use it by simply deciding to use it. Walk away. Block him from everything. Don't reach out, don't speak to him, don't even think about him.

I suspect the reason you haven't done this already is because you know that if you do you will never hear from him again. But based on his behavior I say that's a good thing.

[cif]

Well even if *he* is not done why aren't you? Why is this enough for you? Why are you giving him all the power? Why can he come and go, in and out of your life (the definition of doormat) as he pleases?

 

And just adding my vote: this A is over and everyone realizes it but you

[beach]

If I remember correctly you are in a 12 step program (forgive me if I'm wrong).

 

That 1st step involves lack of power (or being powerless)...

 

Which involves handing anyone or anything TOO MUCH of YOUR power. So just like the alcohol - you keep handing all your power to your MM.

 

So the solution is to stop handing him all your power. Honor yourself.

 

And work on balance.

 

Thorough step work will show you evidence of all of this - and exactly what to DO differently.

 

Are you working your steps with a sponsor?

 

If needed ask a counselor to help you find a healthy boundary that shows you where you are crossing your boundary by giving your MM all of your power.

 

Acceptance is the key to all your problems...but it is only useful if you review how you are participating and how that is making you unhappy.

 

Your MM is no different than your drug/alcohol.

[anika99]

I really appreciate the feedback but we really can't assume what he's thinking, only he knows. In normal circumstances yes the signs would indicate that he's done but if he's doing everything that he's always done since the day I met him, there is no strong indicator that he's done until he actually says the words or goes completely silent and MIA.

 

If he had the balls to initiate an affair, he can have the balls to end it or even create a Dday so that I would be destroyed for good. He and I have had discussions before about hints and actions and how I get confused on if he's ignoring me on purpose or ignoring me to throw off suspicions and he flat out said he would tell me. Every time I've asked him if he wanted it to end he said no, just give him time. He asked for a break, if he wants it to be done I truly believe that he will say it.

 

We've always had limited contact, limited phone calls and text, the only real hint to take is when he stops talking to me completely and that hasn't happened yet. I could stay away and go completely no contact but then he might take that as a hint that I'm done and that's not what I want at all.

 

Yes the big picture is he is still married and I have to detach. Instead of him being my world he has to be treated as a toy that I take out of the box once in a while.

 

 

So he normally goes months without seeing you? He regularly blanks you when he sees you at work? He usually doesn't make any time for you?

 

 

Girl if that's the case then all the more reason for you to cut this nonsense out. If this is the way he has always treated you then obviously you have never been anything other then a quick romp in the sack to him. He sees you as sex toy that he will use to satisfy himself from time to time and when he is done he wants to put you in a drawer where you will stay quiet and out of site, just like a little blow up doll would. If this is the norm then I can't for the life of me understand why you are trying so hard to hang onto him.

 

 

There are several possible reasons that he isn't coming right and saying he's done with you. First possibility is that he doesn't want to close the door completely because he might like to use you again in the future. He doesn't want you but he likes knowing that you are there in the background just waiting for him to snap his fingers in your direction. That's a great ego booster for him and he always has a back up chick in case his marriage suddenly goes south.

 

 

Or possibly he just really hates emotional confrontations. He'd rather you just go away on your own without any drama or tearful conflict. Since he cheats on his wife there is a good possibility that he is a conflict avoider and would rather everyone just keep their thoughts and feelings about him to themselves, unless those thoughts are about how wonderful he is, then he's all ears.

 

 

He could be afraid of what you will do if he tells you it's totally over and cuts you out entirely. He could think it's better if he just stays low contact with you until you get tired of being mostly ignored and walk away on your own. He wants you to think it's your idea to end it so that you won't retaliate against him.

 

 

In any case it sounds like you have never gotten anything but crumbs from him. I did have a look at some of your prior threads complaining of never seeing him, not being allowed to talk to him on the weekends or evenings, being told to not even send text messages or emails during the week. It's sick that you ever agreed to this relationship in the first place as he gives you nothing but quick sex and then leaves you on your own. Why are you humiliating yourself with this man?

[Scarlet2]

If I remember correctly you are in a 12 step program (forgive me if I'm wrong).

 

That 1st step involves lack of power (or being powerless)...

 

Which involves handing anyone or anything TOO MUCH of YOUR power. So just like the alcohol - you keep handing all your power to your MM.

 

So the solution is to stop handing him all your power. Honor yourself.

 

And work on balance.

 

Thorough step work will show you evidence of all of this - and exactly what to DO differently.

 

Are you working your steps with a sponsor?

 

If needed ask a counselor to help you find a healthy boundary that shows you where you are crossing your boundary by giving your MM all of your power.

 

Acceptance is the key to all your problems...but it is only useful if you review how you are participating and how that is making you unhappy.

 

Your MM is no different than your drug/alcohol.

 

No, this is not me. I've never done drugs and rarely ever drink alcohol.

[Scarlet2]

Sometimes I think he is a conflict avoider but he has been known to make conflict even worse by being a bull in a china shop when he should walk away. I guess it just depends on what it is. Maybe I'm an avoider too because I won't stand up for myself, I just keep taking it, I don't let him know that he's hurting me.

 

Yes he's not spending time with me but either does anyone else I know, so does that mean they don't like me too? They don't call or text me first but they do respond when I reach out to them. And they don't spend time with me very often but they will when opportunities open up but it's unpredictable. Is everyone disrespecting me?

[beach]

Sometimes I think he is a conflict avoider but he has been known to make conflict even worse by being a bull in a china shop when he should walk away. I guess it just depends on what it is. Maybe I'm an avoider too because I won't stand up for myself, I just keep taking it, I don't let him know that he's hurting me.

 

Yes he's not spending time with me but either does anyone else I know, so does that mean they don't like me too? They don't call or text me first but they do respond when I reach out to them. And they don't spend time with me very often but they will when opportunities open up but it's unpredictable. Is everyone disrespecting me?

 

People treat you as you've trained them.

 

Even if you don't tell him that he's hurt you - your actions COULD begin respecting yourself by not allowing any relationship to continue when someone is disrespecting you.

 

You view it as "is everyone disrespecting me?" (A victim mindset)

 

It COULD look like:

 

You have disrespected me now buzz off because I deserve to be treated kindly! (Not the victim role)

 

 

Interacting with true "friends" is usually more equal when there is healthy balance to any friendship.

 

Equal giving and receiving is effortless and helps to lift the spirit causing a feel of a natural flow of energy.

 

 

What you experience with your MM is you trying to control him into communicating and him ignoring you or just bare minimum so you don't keep engaging him in more interaction.

 

No flow to him with you = frustrating feel of energy. You want it your way and he's not going to give you what you want.

 

In the end it CAUSES YOU disappointment because YOUR EXPECTATIONS haven't been met by him. Too much power handed willingly to your OM.

[anika99]

Sometimes I think he is a conflict avoider but he has been known to make conflict even worse by being a bull in a china shop when he should walk away. I guess it just depends on what it is. Maybe I'm an avoider too because I won't stand up for myself, I just keep taking it, I don't let him know that he's hurting me.

 

Yes he's not spending time with me but either does anyone else I know, so does that mean they don't like me too? They don't call or text me first but they do respond when I reach out to them. And they don't spend time with me very often but they will when opportunities open up but it's unpredictable. Is everyone disrespecting me?

 

Obviously it depends on the nature of those relationships. We all have relatives and friends/acquaintances that we have very low contact with. I wouldn't call that disrespectful it's just that these relationships don't hold very high importance or priority in our lives. We give first to the people we love and care about the most and then other people get what's left. People in love or people having a romantic relationship usually give the bulk of their attention to their love interest. Of course sometimes something else might have to take priority, like a sick relative or something comes up at work, but for the most part people in love want to spend the majority of their time together. So if my second cousin twice removed barely contacts me I don't consider that rude or disrespectful because she has other relationships that are more important than me and that's okay because it's the same for me. I'm not going to neglect the people closest to me so that I can give attention to a distant relative.

 

 

Now if the person I considered my best friend, didn't ever contact me and rarely made time for me, that would be a problem and it would be obvious to me that while I might consider her my best friend she clearly doesn't feel the same about me. If the guy I'm romantically involved with also doesn't contact me much and won't see me, oh hell to the NO!, that **** would not be happening with me. If you don't want to see me then there is no relationship so goodbye and don't call me ever again!! But not only is he not seeing you he also completely ignored you when you were right there. He spend all his time chatting up everyone else but wouldn't even speak to you. Do your friends do that too? When you see them out somewhere do they just turn their backs to you and walk away without even speaking to you? Because if so, then I'm sorry to say they are not friends.

 

 

I can't believe the lengths you are going to in order to hang on to this fantasy. Yes it's absolutely disrespectful for the person you love romantically to ignore you for months!! It's also a sign the size of a neon freaking bill board that he just doesn't care about you! Just accept it and move on.

[Scarlet2]

So I've been tear free for the last three days, haven't been thinking about him, starting to live and accept that he's gone forever, and today he decides to look for me and talk to me like he should have that day he snubbed me. Now why would someone who no longer wants me go out of their way to find me, is this one of those crumbs again? Why give any crumbs if his other actions say he wants it over?

[sagamore]

Because he's trying to placate you so you don't bust him?

 

Because he's selfish and likes the ego stroke of seeing your feelings for him?

 

Ultimately, of course, it doesn't matter. All equations lead to the same result. Part of the NC journey is moving past the analysis of his brain (for which I hope he has retained a trained professional) and placing the focus back on YOU.

 

Keep on keeping on. Three days is a good start.

[georgia girl]

So I've been tear free for the last three days, haven't been thinking about him, starting to live and accept that he's gone forever, and today he decides to look for me and talk to me like he should have that day he snubbed me. Now why would someone who no longer wants me go out of their way to find me, is this one of those crumbs again? Why give any crumbs if his other actions say he wants it over?

 

 

 

Once again, Scarlet, I think you're looking for ANY reason to hope when there is none. So, he came and talked to you for a few minutes. Did he say:

 

 

"Gosh, I miss you. I am so sorry. How do I make things better?"

"Here's my plan for working out my life so we can be together (with details)."

or even a, "I really still dig you, sister."

 

 

I'm guessing not because you would have been gushing over it. He simply made small talk with you. I make small talk - unfortunately - all day long. It's not an indicator of feelings or a relationship. It was what it was. Simply small talk. He likely is just friendly and also doesn't want you running off and telling his wife now that it's over.

 

 

Please, please let this go. You shouldn't have to guess if you're in a relationship. And in a relationship, you shouldn't have to guess about that person's feelings. A or not. These aren't guessing situations. When they become guessing situations, it's because one person, in this case you, just doesn't want to let go.

 

 

Scarlet, I know I sound harsh and like at every post I'm the doom and gloom, but please look back. You've been posting since August about how he wants a break, blew up at you because you asked for more time and you text-bombed him, then pulled completely away after the death of his father. It's so over that the relationship is now cold. No pulse left. It HURTS you to continue believing that there is one. That's why I push so hard. The sooner you realize its over, the sooner you'll start to reclaim your life. You really need to do that.