death in MM's family

[Hope Shimmers]

In my case, MM's actions aren't a reflection on me, he just has a busy life with few minutes to spare and a wife who controls the finances and he is rarely off alone by himself. I believe him when he says he'd rather be spending his time with me if he could. He just can't because he doesn't know how to work it out so that he doesn't get caught.

 

The saddest and most telling thing about this is that I truly think that you believe this. Most OW on this forum make excuses at some point or another for MM behavior, but at some level they know they are just excuses. But not you... you truly BELIEVE this.

 

You keep saying that he is screwing with your mind and we keep telling you that no, he isn't. Well I'm going to change my mind and agree with you. He IS screwing with your mind. He's deliberately making you doubt yourself.... making you wonder what the hell is going on... making you feel crazy... making you confused about what is real and what isn't. He is a manipulative, gaslighting A**HAT who is playing with you with all these confusing behaviors - tossing you crumbs (not even crumbs... 'crumblets'), then reeling you in, then throwing you back. Rinse and repeat.

 

He does these unbelievable and downright MEAN things like bringing his W to your house... WTF?!?! What are you supposed to make of that? Then he tells you that he is still in an A with you while he literally ignores you for 8 months! Meanwhile he plays around with little things such as running into you here and there, to screw with your mind so that when you ask what is going on, he can say "nothing". And you are left wondering, was it real? Did I make this up? Am I imagining things? Is me making me crazy?

 

What he is doing is beyond cruel and horrible! He is destroying you. He has you - an intelligent, rational woman - thinking that you are actually in an affair with him when he has barely contacted you in 8 months! He has you BELIEVING insane excuses for the fact that he NEVER contacts you! That's how horrible he treats you!

 

He is evil. You need to get PISSED. I mean really PISSED at him because he is ripping out your heart and soul, and soon you will have nothing left of you. Get MAD and throw this abusive manipulative loser to the curb.

 

You need to WAKE UP!!! Before it's too late.

[Adoraxx]

Those are definitely all excuses! You know, my MM is my neighbor so I can pretty well tell if he is REALLY busy or if he REALLY has no opportunity, or NOT! And often, even if he has all the opportunity in the world , he still won't come over... instead, he'll prefer to do whatever it is that he wants to do. And yet he still thinks he can come up with his bs excuse of "I'm so busy" and "If I could , I would come to you" or "if I have opportunity, I will email you......". But he won't!

 

Like I said, I can pretty much tell what he is doing (or not) and he is NOT that busy. Neither is your MM, Scarlet.

 

Btw, he is my xMM now but it's hard to let go when he's living so nearby and we still talk every now and then. I still can't get used to it though that he simply won't MAKE more time for me. It's all about making time, not having time....

[nikki76]

Those are definitely all excuses! You know, my MM is my neighbor so I can pretty well tell if he is REALLY busy or if he REALLY has no opportunity, or NOT! And often, even if he has all the opportunity in the world , he still won't come over... instead, he'll prefer to do whatever it is that he wants to do. And yet he still thinks he can come up with his bs excuse of "I'm so busy" and "If I could , I would come to you" or "if I have opportunity, I will email you......". But he won't!

 

Like I said, I can pretty much tell what he is doing (or not) and he is NOT that busy. Neither is your MM, Scarlet.

 

Btw, he is my xMM now but it's hard to let go when he's living so nearby and we still talk every now and then. I still can't get used to it though that he simply won't MAKE more time for me. It's all about making time, not having time....

 

How long have you been in NC? Thats what I find the hardest, he's my H friend and lives in our neighborhood. So even when I have gone NC, he's always around.

[whichwayisup]

Can "actions speak louder than words" really be applied in regards to affairs though? My exbf keeps reminding me that it's not MM's lack of interest or it being over, he says MM is married and there is and will always be limitations because of that. MM can't do certain things other men can. Some MM have a lot more free time, some can coast better under the radar, some aren't watched like a hawk. If you have a MM, he might move mountains for you but his risk of getting caught must be pretty low or he just doesn't care if he gets caught. In my case, MM's actions aren't a reflection on me, he just has a busy life with few minutes to spare and a wife who controls the finances and he is rarely off alone by himself. I believe him when he says he'd rather be spending his time with me if he could. He just can't because he doesn't know how to work it out so that he doesn't get caught.

 

It's been many many MONTHS since you and he have got together one on one.

 

Your affair IS over.

 

MM who are truly in an affair do make the effort to spend time with their OW and your (ex)MM has not done that, he is full of excuses and you buy it.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Can "actions speak louder than words" really be applied in regards to affairs though? My exbf keeps reminding me that it's not MM's lack of interest or it being over, he says MM is married and there is and will always be limitations because of that. MM can't do certain things other men can. Some MM have a lot more free time, some can coast better under the radar, some aren't watched like a hawk. If you have a MM, he might move mountains for you but his risk of getting caught must be pretty low or he just doesn't care if he gets caught. In my case, MM's actions aren't a reflection on me, he just has a busy life with few minutes to spare and a wife who controls the finances and he is rarely off alone by himself. I believe him when he says he'd rather be spending his time with me if he could. He just can't because he doesn't know how to work it out so that he doesn't get caught.

 

Your last sentence says it all in your situation.

 

The price of being caught isn't worth it....for him.

 

This thread reads as a cautionary tale for WS more than one for AP.

 

One wonders how accurate your life perceptions are, compared to the average person. You have asked people for their perceptions and most...if not every responder to your thread has basically come to the same conclusions. Have you ever considered IC to help you navigate your perceptions?

[whatatangledweb]

I've gone back and read your other posts. Since you first started posting your relationship with him has been just like this. He has never made it clear whether you were in a relationship still or not. You would finally hear from him and each time you would ask he would say something along the lines of he didn't say it was ended. Then he would go right back to this kind of nothing that most of us see as no relationship.

 

So after reading it appears to me that he never says it is over but it wants it over. I'm sorry but he is has been waiting for the last 11 months for you to just drift away. To get tired of it and move on. Maybe he doesn't say it because he doesn't want you to tell his wife as you know her and she knows you. Or he doesn't want to hurt you so by letting it just fade , it would be better. etc.

 

He doesn't seem to realize he has been screwing with your mind for a very long time. He has given you all the actions to see it's done but you need to hear it. He will never say it. You see hope because he has done it for almost a year. It appears normal to you. Was the first five months of your affair just like this?

[Scarlet2]

I can try to explain the details that are missing but I have a feeling the responses will still be "excuses", call it what you will but it's still the truth. I know for a fact he's not sitting at home watching tv on the couch doing nothing, he's a very busy man and his wareabouts are easily verified.

 

We've been intimate numerous times after the death of his father, I just never posted about it. Also I don't go NC long enough to even know when and if he'd call me on his own but he still answers the phone if I call and he'll call me back. He just ignores text. When I start feeling that maybe it really is over because of him not making time for me, he flat out says it's not over and then gets perturbed because if I'm always thinking that it's over I must want it to be over.

 

I guess I'll see if it's over when he returns from his trip with his wife. Maybe it will bring them closer together. She's really liking his weight loss.

[Hope Shimmers]

We've been intimate numerous times after the death of his father, I just never posted about it.

 

Unbelievable.

 

If you want advice from people here, stop wasting their time and picking and choosing the information you share. It is totally dishonest.

 

I'm out.

[Jessie1231]

Unbelievable.

 

If you want advice from people here, stop wasting their time and picking and choosing the information you share. It is totally dishonest.

 

I'm out.

 

Yes exactly. You've updated this thread for months about how he wasn't contacting you or spending time with you, so you were clinging to the five minutes here and there you saw him at work. So when were you getting intimate during this whole time?

[Tauriel]

MM who are truly in an affair do make the effort to spend time with their OW and your (ex)MM has not done that, he is full of excuses and you buy it.

 

Sadly, that's true. I think that every OW thinks that her MM is a special little snowflake who drops the ball for a litany of "good" reasons, when the reason is they want to pull a slow fade. I know that my MM is doing that, which is why I'm putting an end to it.

 

Let's just say, to be generous, that they really don't mean to be cruel, that they're doing it for our sake. The slow fade is the cruelest thing to do to anyone, IMHO -- tossing out just enough so that the OW has hope and is willing to wait for him, should he eventually need her again. It's crappy, passive-aggressive behavior. I never knew that anyone could be so passive-aggressive as my MM, but apparently, there is only one and the rest is done with mirrors.

[anika99]

Yes exactly. You've updated this thread for months about how he wasn't contacting you or spending time with you, so you were clinging to the five minutes here and there you saw him at work. So when were you getting intimate during this whole time?

 

 

I agree. You have been posting in this thread for 8 months all about how the MM is ignoring you and not giving you any attention and now all of a sudden you completely change your story. I'm not sure what to believe or if you are even honest Good luck in your affair.

[whichwayisup]

I can try to explain the details that are missing but I have a feeling the responses will still be "excuses", call it what you will but it's still the truth. I know for a fact he's not sitting at home watching tv on the couch doing nothing, he's a very busy man and his wareabouts are easily verified.

 

We've been intimate numerous times after the death of his father, I just never posted about it. Also I don't go NC long enough to even know when and if he'd call me on his own but he still answers the phone if I call and he'll call me back. He just ignores text. When I start feeling that maybe it really is over because of him not making time for me, he flat out says it's not over and then gets perturbed because if I'm always thinking that it's over I must want it to be over.

 

I guess I'll see if it's over when he returns from his trip with his wife. Maybe it will bring them closer together. She's really liking his weight loss.

 

I wish you had been honest and posted this months ago.. You never mentioned one word about being intimate with him. How do you expect helpful advice if you're not telling the whole situation? You've made it seem like since his dad passed away you've not seen him once face to face outside of work, that he only speaks to you once in a while and most of the time ignores you.

 

My advice still stands, he treats you badly and offers you crap on stick which you take over and over again. I hope soon you find a therapist to talk to and to help you find your self respect and love for yourself.

 

Who were you before MM entered your life? Do you miss that old version of you?

[Hope Shimmers]

Who were you before MM entered your life? Do you miss that old version of you?

 

I would not believe one word that comes out of her mouth, who knows if this MM even exists.

 

I think she likes the attention of posting on here and getting multiple people to reply to her 'situation'. That's who she is - an attention-seeking self-made victim. She isn't here for 'advice'; otherwise she would be honest about her situation. Instead she has sucked up the time of many, many posters here while she has selfishly withheld vital parts of her story which she knew would make all the difference in the end result of the advice she would receive.

 

She and her MM deserve each other. They are both liars.

[georgia girl]

I can try to explain the details that are missing but I have a feeling the responses will still be "excuses", call it what you will but it's still the truth. I know for a fact he's not sitting at home watching tv on the couch doing nothing, he's a very busy man and his wareabouts are easily verified.

 

We've been intimate numerous times after the death of his father, I just never posted about it. Also I don't go NC long enough to even know when and if he'd call me on his own but he still answers the phone if I call and he'll call me back. He just ignores text. When I start feeling that maybe it really is over because of him not making time for me, he flat out says it's not over and then gets perturbed because if I'm always thinking that it's over I must want it to be over.

 

I guess I'll see if it's over when he returns from his trip with his wife. Maybe it will bring them closer together. She's really liking his weight loss.

 

 

I have to agree. I'm not sure if I should believe this or I should believe the other posts for the past months. Considering the other posts were over the smallest of encounters and "pass-by's" at the office that you felt the need to post about, how could you leave out the things he said to you when you were alone and intimate? And how did him not talking to you in the office - if you had recently been alone and intimate - result in so much anxiety?

 

 

Gotta say, I'm done too. If I can't believe the poster about the whole of their story - we all change a few facts to protect our anonymity - then I have nothing to post to. Either he's been around or he hasn't. I have absolutely no clue at this point.

[Jessie1231]

I have to agree. I'm not sure if I should believe this or I should believe the other posts for the past months. Considering the other posts were over the smallest of encounters and "pass-by's" at the office that you felt the need to post about, how could you leave out the things he said to you when you were alone and intimate? And how did him not talking to you in the office - if you had recently been alone and intimate - result in so much anxiety?

 

 

Gotta say, I'm done too. If I can't believe the poster about the whole of their story - we all change a few facts to protect our anonymity - then I have nothing to post to. Either he's been around or he hasn't. I have absolutely no clue at this point.

 

Agreed. I even went back and read this thread last night because I couldn't sleep and had nothing else to do. Every week or two, there was an update detailing how she had managed to not text or call, or more often that he had glanced in her direction during his office visits which gave her a reason to call which he never responded too kindly to. There was two instances I found in the past eight months of him coming by her house.

 

I think what happened is the advice finally sunk in and she realized that people on here were telling her the truth. Instead of accepting that and doing anything about it (like accepting that this affair is and has been over for months), she changed the story to hopefully change the advice.

 

Because why is it notable and something that's so important to you that he manages to say hello to you once over a few weeks or months if you've really been seeing and sleeping with him the entire time? That makes zero sense.

[jellybean89]

I agree with Hope.

 

We go from MM not even speaking to her and walking some path at work to avoid her and totally ignoring Scarlet to she's had sex with him many times.

 

Any person who treats someone they have had recent sex with like this MM treats scarlet (allegedly) is an a s s h o l e and why she continues to ALLOW this is beyond me.

 

But who knows what the real story is. She keeps saying he said it's not over, yet from what she has posted, they don't even talk. She never mentioned she keeps calling him, until all of a sudden she mentions it along with having intimate relations with him.

 

5 years from now, the same stuff will be going on.

[lana-banana]

Scarlet,

 

My username has changed a few times, but I've followed your threads since the beginning. In a forum full of sad stories yours always stood out as one of the saddest. You are completely oblivious to the reality of your circumstances. Even when the affair was "on", he rarely saw you and almost never spoke to you. He made no effort to spend time with you. He told you directly he would never leave his wife, this was passing entertainment, he saw no future with you. Yet you made post after post wondering when you could funally be together. When the affair ended for good, you became so desperate for contact you even flirted with his son!

 

I don't believe you've been intimate at all in a very long time. If you had, you wouldn't be panicking about whether it was over. I also notice you are good about answering questions from other posters unless the question is about the last time you were intimate (which several people have asked). If you were truly being intimate with him you would have said so when we asked. Furthermore, if you'd been together you wouldn't be protesting against those who pointed out actions speak louder than words. I'm sorry, Scarlet, I just don't believe you've even kissed this man in almost a year if not longer. The vast majority of this affair took place in your own mind.

 

I think this man will never tell you it's over because he fears your reaction. The fact that you even have to ask despite almost no contact whatsoever suggests you may not be capable of processing the end of this affair in a healthy way. Please, please seek counseling to get a better understanding of what's happening to you.

[Scarlet2]

I think I figured it out but first, I never flirted with his son, that's an incorrect interpretation. I was cordial out of respect for MM, I wasn't going to be rude or ignore. Everyone has their own opinion, I have the fact.

 

I've been saying all along that the affair is still on, this implies sex without it being spelled out, everyone here kept saying it was over. So I start believing what everyone here says, every time he cuts back communicating and the frequency, I get anxious and think again that maybe everyone is right, maybe he did end it. So I pull back and try to detach but I continue to have conflicts and flip flop because he'll have actions that contradict and I go back to thinking that my thoughts are wrong so I talk to him and everything resets.

 

The solution to the problem was to not go to a forum to ask why someone would behave a certain way and what does it mean, the solution was to just ask him directly and stop analyzing and take it for what it is. If he wants it to be over, he'll say it and he'll stop coming over and he'll stop talking to me forever. None of that has occurred yet but there within lies the problem because I can never tell if the end process is about to start or not. Maybe a discovery day is better than a fade out because there is no question that it's over when that occurs. In the end my problem is I continue to keep bracing myself for an ending that may or may not even occur thus self sabotaging all my relationships.

 

Do I miss the version of me before MM? No, I miss the version of me when he actually spends time with me.

 

I'm still going to bring up to him about my dating others during the times he's too busy for me.

[whichwayisup]

I really wish I could help you but you're not ready to be objective and really take in what everybody is telling you.

 

Trust me, it's rare on LS when every single person agrees with one another when replying to a poster.

 

Okay, so your affair isn't over. Fine. Live your life, do whatever you want. Don't put MM first, he certainly doesn't put you first. Stop thinking of him so much! HE isn't thinking of you like you think of him. He's too busy.

 

Date others, see friends, detach and distance yourself.

 

Maybe then you'll detach enough to be objective and see what your situation is really all about.

 

People were/are trying to help you and it's hard to keep up if you change the facts along the way.

 

 

Do I miss the version of me before MM? No, I miss the version of me when he actually spends time with me

 

Do you even remember what it was like before MM came into your life?

[spookysonata]

You absolutely flirted with his son! You talked about your boyfriends with him, told him he could take care of you when you were older.

 

I'm with everyone else. You've been micro analyzing his every eye blink, agonizing on whether it's "over" (You tell us!) ...yet suddenly you've been sleeping with him all along????

 

Not buying it.

[Blu72]

For the life of me I can't understand why people keep adding to this tragic mess of a thread. Me included. Good lord.

[msblissful]

I can try to explain the details that are missing but I have a feeling the responses will still be "excuses", call it what you will but it's still the truth. I know for a fact he's not sitting at home watching tv on the couch doing nothing, he's a very busy man and his wareabouts are easily verified.

 

We've been intimate numerous times after the death of his father, I just never posted about it. Also I don't go NC long enough to even know when and if he'd call me on his own but he still answers the phone if I call and he'll call me back. He just ignores text. When I start feeling that maybe it really is over because of him not making time for me, he flat out says it's not over and then gets perturbed because if I'm always thinking that it's over I must want it to be over.

 

I guess I'll see if it's over when he returns from his trip with his wife. Maybe it will bring them closer together. She's really liking his weight loss.

You have not been intimate at all. I know that. Everyone here knows that. I'm sorry to be blunt but you are a liar and I feel like I have completely wasted my time in following your story, having feelings of sorrow for you. I feel duped. What worry me is that once you write the words down about being intimate you actually start to believe it after reading it back! Lie to us but not to yourself.

[whichwayisup]

You have not been intimate at all. I know that. Everyone here knows that. I'm sorry to be blunt but you are a liar and I feel like I have completely wasted my time in following your story, having feelings of sorrow for you. I feel duped. What worry me is that once you write the words down about being intimate you actually start to believe it after reading it back! Lie to us but not to yourself.

 

We don't know 100% but she does. I don't believe she has lied on purpose. No matter what, she still deserves compassion, it's obvious this situation has messed with her head and she has every right to come and post here, even if some of you don't believe her. Just stop reading and replying instead of laying into her.

[msblissful]

We don't know 100% but she does. I don't believe she has lied on purpose. No matter what, she still deserves compassion, it's obvious this situation has messed with her head and she has every right to come and post here, even if some of you don't believe her. Just stop reading and replying instead of laying into her.

 

Yes come and post here but don't lie. Whether she lied or not is not the point. She mislead us with the information she gave us, is that a better way of putting it? so the pages of advice given are useless and a waste of our time. This is a community where we all come to vent and get things off our chest. The minute we start questioning each other's honesty is when this group starts to fall apart. What is the point in writing pages and pages of fiction. Is that why we come here? I myself took hours out to read her story from page 1. It's such a shame she had to add that last bit of information in there as her credibility IN MY OPINION has been tarnished. I genuinely have concern for the poster which is why I felt the need to post as its getting out of hand now. I hardly ever post just read and take it all in but I am concerned as I think we all are.

[Hope Shimmers]

Yes come and post here but don't lie. Whether she lied or not is not the point. She mislead us with the information she gave us, is that a better way of putting it? so the pages of advice given are useless and a waste of our time. This is a community where we all come to vent and get things off our chest. The minute we start questioning each other's honesty is when this group starts to fall apart. What is the point in writing pages and pages of fiction. Is that why we come here? I myself took hours out to read her story from page 1. It's such a shame she had to add that last bit of information in there as her credibility IN MY OPINION has been tarnished. I genuinely have concern for the poster which is why I felt the need to post as its getting out of hand now. I hardly ever post just read and take it all in but I am concerned as I think we all are.

 

It is annoying I agree.

 

The thing is, there are probably many people on here who lie. There are people here who post completely made-up stories just for attention. Not saying this OP is in that category (don't think she is) - just that from where we stand, the only thing any of us can do is take what people say at face value. And recognize that this may not be the case.

 

There is a chance that scarlet is so completely dissociated from reality at this point (gaslighting from MM) that she really has no concept of their level of intimacy. She might not even be able to separate what actually happened from what didn't. We don't know.

 

She may also have lied because she felt ganged-up on here, wanting to 'prove' that what everyone was telling her was not the truth.