death in MM's family

[georgia girl]

Scarlet,

 

I am not going to flame you but I did look at the start date of this thread and it's almost a year and a half ago. Your life has been in limbo for a long time. I know you think he cares deeply and I know that you love him. But can't you see that he is never going to be who you want him to be? I genuinely don't think he will ever leave his wife and if he does, I suspect that he may leave you as well. The charm - the newness - of you will have worn off. If he ever decides to leave it will be to find greener pastures than either of you.

 

I am genuinely not trying to be hurtful. If you are okay going on this ride as long as it takes you, that is entirely your call. But please, stop yourself from envisioning a future with him. If you envision it, you are creating false hope for yourself. That may cause you to make decisions that you wouldn't ordinarily make - such as dating others, earnestly looking for another job and/or just ending the liaison completely. Scarlet, I don't think you are dumb or naive. I think instead that you are willing to tell yourself anything and do anything to keep one small part of him.

 

If I can share my experience with a single commitment-phobe, it may help. Like you, I told myself that he cared deeply - he must because he consistently sought me out, particularly when I ignored him. He rarely said I love you. When we started planning our wedding, he would blow hot and cold so often that I actually became immune to it. My friends and family all saw it for what it was and advised me against going forward. I ignored them and kept thinking, if we just get married, he will settle down and things will be fine.

 

What happened? He blew cold one too many times. I realized that love does not feel like this.'I saw my girlfriends and my sisters and how confident they were with their partners and knew instinctively that it had to be over. It nearly broke me but I walked away. Of course, he did the "try to get me back" happy horse poop. He begged, he love bombed me... The whole shooting match. I ignored because I was really done.

 

A few months later, I met my husband. neither of us was ready for serious. Instead, we took it very, very slow. But he always treated me amazingly well - thoughtful, respectful, kind. At the end of the day, he had a very dangerous cycling accident and we both realized how much we loved each other. We were married almost a year to the day after his crash.

 

I tell you that because I had to walk away from a relationship that was crippling me to get to this one. I wish for you the strength to do the same.'it starts with seeing him and your relationship for what it really is and decide it's not enough. Only then can you break free. But once free, amazing things can happen. I wish you would see that you are cheating yourself out of those amazing things. I was convinced that my exBF was everything I had ever wanted. Then, I met my husband and no one could match me better.

 

Please give yourself the opportunity for something incredible.

[S2B]

whatatangledweb: Does his wife know about the affair? I think she might know but she's never said anything to me and he hasn't told me if she knows. The feeling first started at his dad's memorial. As we are all milling around, talking to one person to the next, any time I would get close to her vicinity, bracing myself for having to say hello while pretending that I'm not sleeping with her husband, she would end up disappearing to another area before we had to say anything to each other. Then we had a company function and I thought he wasn't going to bring her because it's really not a good idea to have your mistress and wife in the same room but he brought her anyway even though it was optional because it wasn't going to last very long and at one point, they had gotten up to walk into another area and he walked by me and she walked all the way around a different way to not have to walk by me and the first thing that popped into my head was "she knows".

How long has the affair lasted? Is it two years? yes

 

S2B: how old are you? How old is the MM? 40 & 45. All his kids are over the age of 20 now, his last one just left the nest.

 

He seems to be an avoidant type. But he's never leaving his wife...they both seem to avoid conflict - but never really telling how they feel about you interrupting their marriage every now and then.

 

The only one who does this to you - is you.

 

Go ahead - deprive yourself your good years waiting and waiting for nothing.

 

He hasn't offered you anything in the past year - it only looks like you are delusional about him because he has made effort to avoid you and shut you out of his life. It's just that you don't seem to get that message.

 

You could easily wait forever.

 

Life is too short.

[sandylee1]

Guilty feelings also cause paranoia you know. Knowing you're doing wrong makes you oh so jumpy and I bet if she were asked about you... she wouldn't even recall those incidents you're talking about.

 

There aren't many women who know and don't say anything.... I've known a couple do it... one was so very scared that her H would pick the OW... so she never said anything and a couple of others were cheating too ....so they kept quiet in case their own affair was ever found out.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm sorry but we need to at least try to keep this real. His W HUGGED YOU at the memorial. I don't believe that any BS going through D-day would or could do that!

 

I know it's very intimate but what are your 'encounters' like? Does he lay & hold you after? Does he come to your home or is it usually a quick tryst in his car?

 

Oh honey. You so need to be done with this. PLEASE! No man is worth this!

Edited March 14, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[Joie]

After reading the entire thread last night I feel compelled to comment. I am a BS so please take my thoughts with that in mind.

 

 

This by far was the saddest thread I have ever read. I read a lot of the OW threads. I admit I do it because I want to see if the OW is suffering as much as the BS.

 

But, honey, no one deserves the mess you have made. You don't even really qualify as an other woman. It sounds like you are just a random booty call. I think he would be horrified if you ever showed him this thread and shocked that you believe you are in a relationship with him. Even an OW shouldn't be looking for random hints that he is in into you.

 

I am not one to immediately vilify the MM. I assume that if two woman want the same man he probably has some redeeming qualities. But this man is either evil. (Because you don't treat someone you care about even as a friend the way he treats you.) Or he is just a decent guy that is a cheater and you really mean so little to him that your aren't a blip on his radar other than an occasional hook up. I am guessing it is the second one.

 

My WS felt guilty anytime he thought I might run into the AP. I wish I could say it was only because he didn't want to hurt me. I am sure that was a large part of it. But since he is a decent human being he also didn't want to hurt her. That doesn't sound like the case here. He has zero respect for you or your feelings.

 

Please look for love elsewhere.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Scarlet2]

An update: I disappointingly say we're still seeing each other...

 

His video game usage is still at an all time high, goes home from work and immediately plays video games until he goes to sleep and then again when he wakes up, even in the middle of the night. Doesn't go out on weekends as much as he used to, it's always video games. Escapism?

 

He gained his weight back, which I knew would happen because it's a product of his environment, but since he won't leave, he'll lose it again when she starts criticizing and repeat.

 

He has chosen to stop using condoms with me. Why?

 

He has deactivated his voicemail on his phone, I'm curious why his wife hasn't got onto him to put it back on because it's one less way for her to contact him when he's not at home.

 

He still complains about his job but now he's waiting because his wife is wanting to start her own business so he said he plans on quitting when that happens. He says it might be out of state so he'll have to move and I asked "oh, so I guess we're over now then?", because this is another huge billboard sign that says he's not getting divorced, but he was like "what? no, you gotta look at the bigger picture and it means I'm going to have more free time for us". I don't see how, whatever.

 

We were in a restaurant when he commented that he wished he had my simple life (orphan with no family problems), I said he could by walking away but he responded with "yeah right" and started talking again about hoping they have to move out of state but I mentioned his problems will still follow him for as long as he stays married to her. Changing environment doesn't work if the same people are still around. Case in point, his in-laws lived ten minutes away and caused problems, then they moved three hours away, those problems still exist.

 

I'm still looking to quit my job, even more so now because last month I was forced into a different area and I'm being extremely micromanaged and they're looking for mistakes that don't exist. He got upset by the change and wanted me to get HR involved but nothing happened. The job has made me more miserable than being in love with a married man who doesn't want me. I fill out applications constantly but nothing has panned out. I have another interview next week.

 

It's still so sad and pathetic for both of us that I won't let him go and he won't leave her or end it with me. I anticipate it to fully die without a d-day once I work somewhere else, or I expect him to do a disappearing act once he quits and her business is up and running, so there's that.

 

The holidays have given me too much alone time to overthink and reflect and I think I'm finally going to go no contact as my new year starts. It hurts so much but I deserve to have a real relationship that he's never going to give me. I hope I don't fail...

[S2B]

SAME crap but another year.

 

So another year goes by and you are still short changing yourself, how are YOU going to change this?

 

There's NO value in focusing in on him or his wife to do what ONLY YOU can do for YOURSELF!

 

Life for you begins when you end it with him for good.

 

When will YOU end it?

 

And get on birth control!!! Gosh darn if you end up pregnant by him! That's not fair to a child!

[anika99]

Well Happy New Years. Looks like the upcoming year is going to be pretty much the same for you.

 

Some thoughts...

 

He's quit using condoms because he's had a vasectomy. His kids are grown and gone and his wife is probably got sick of using birth control and told him to get himself fixed. You see him so infrequently that he could easily have had the procedure done without you ever knowing.

 

He disabled the voicemail on his phone so that you cannot leave him messages. If he only goes to work and then goes home then his wife has no reason to care if he has voicemail.

 

He had the audacity to tell you he was jealous of you because you are an orphan and have no family. He is a horrible human being.

 

You are correct in saying that him changing locations won't fix his problems but neither will changing the people in his life. Wherever he goes there he will be and his biggest problem is himself. Your not seriously still trying to blame his wife for his problems are you? He is his problem just like you are your problem.

 

You fill out applications constantly? Who does that anymore? Don't you have a resume? You are right that if you leave your job the affair will likely fizzle out and die and that's exactly why you haven't managed to get a new job in over 2 yrs. Because you're not really trying to find a new job because you don't want the affair to end.

 

At this point if the MM did divorce his wife and come to you I really believe you would ditch him so you could lose yourself in a new dysfunctional, toxic and painful relationship. After over 2yrs of this I can only assume that you really don't want to be happy. The life we get is largely comprised of the choices we make and this is the life you have chosen for yourself. Maybe just make peace with your choices and accept that this is the life you are going to live. I mean there is no point in continuing to complain and get emotionally distraught over a situation you won't do anything to change, so if you're not going to change it then make peace with it.

[jenkins95]

(((Scarlett)))

 

Happy New Year.

 

Almost every sentence of your update made my skin crawl. He sounds like such a selfish, entitled and thoughtless individual. I know you don't see this as you love him, but as an outsider, this thread does not put him in a positive light.

 

And the video games! He sounds like my 7 year old. Massive red flag to me when anyone over 16 years old is still playing video games - very, very immature in my opinion.

 

New Year new start? Can you really say you've been happy these past years? It doesn't come across that way in these posts. If you were to end it now, you would of course suffer badly for a few months...But ultimately it would free you from this awful limbo.

 

Good luck Scarlett. We are here for you

[wmacbride]

Why do you let everyone else - especially your mm- control your life?

[S2B]

What do you gain from this 'relationship'?

[Scarlet2]

I continued to pull back, I stopped being the first to call and I stopped begging to see him, respond instead of pursue. I was still trying to find a new job and going on interviews but employers were just not picking me. In July, he turned in his two week notice like he's been saying he was going to do and he wanted to see me. I agreed because I figured maybe he was going to have “the talk” since he was leaving and it was a day that I had my period so I was sure that I wasn't going to be lured if all he wanted was sex.

 

Except it wasn't the goodbye I expected; he starts in again with me needing to look at the bigger picture, that it's all going to work out, he's going to have more time and mentioned how his wife is going to be out of state for a week soon and he wanted to spend that free time with me. I was skeptical and just let him talk. I had even asked how are we going to talk if he’s no longer working and he said I need to trust that he’d contact me. I didn't think anything more about his wife being out of town until he repeated it again a week later and then I started to think maybe he was serious, that what I've been hoping and waiting for was actually going to happen.

 

It should come as no surprise that the week his wife was away had came and went and he didn't contact me to arrange, or cancel or explain. The very last thing he had texted me prior to her going away was "call you soon" and I haven't heard anything from him for months now. There was no "I can't see you anymore", there was no "stop contacting me", just complete silence from him...

I texted once to see if he was okay, no response. I called him once, no answer, no call back. No idea if he still has the same phone number. If it’s someone else’s phone number now, they never said wrong number.

 

But cue me to being back in confusion, why would he give me the impression that he was going to keep seeing me if his ultimate plan was to disappear without a word? He could have just done that without the false hope like I said earlier this year since we were already drifting. And to think back on the times when he would say he wouldn’t leave me hanging, that he’d tell me because he didn’t want to be a jerk like that, but I guess he has disappeared forever now, without a goodbye. We weren’t fighting or anything. The last couple of times I saw him, he would get a big smile on his face and was happy to see me.

 

Both he and his wife quit their jobs on the same day and both of them are still not working while she's in the process of opening her business. It's boggling how he was miserable enough to stray and now he'll be working with her 24/7 in a career he has zero experience in, without any breaks from each other? He’s still playing video games most of the day and I have no doubt that he’ll continue to do so when she opens and he’ll just be a house husband and live off her money and not work with her at all. All the kids are living on their own now, there’s no stay at home dad situation here.

 

In one of our last conversations, I had mentioned two people I know were getting married soon but I wasn't sure if I was going to go to the wedding because I didn't understand why they were doing it because they didn’t seem to be in love. But he tells me marriage is for the benefits, meaning health insurance, money, whatever makes life comfortable, didn’t mention love at all. So basically if you’re wondering why a WS stays with the BS, it’s not for love, it’s familiarity and not having to start over at the bottom and are perfectly fine living with someone they don’t love.

 

Even though the writing was always on the wall and I could see the end coming, you’re still never fully prepared for the heartache, the pain and the grieving when it does happen. Add to it by not having anyone to talk to about it. I love him and miss him terribly. I want to be with him and I lost my best friend and there’s nothing I can do about it because he wants a life without me in it. I’m crying all the time.

 

Another married man is showing interest in me and he says he's in the process of divorcing but she's being difficult in mediation and that she already has a boyfriend. I’ve got both hands pushed out saying no, talk after it’s finalized. No way am I going to make another man feel better just so they can end up staying married to someone they don’t even love.

[S2B]

You ask why does he do it that way? It's because you've never been the one to slam that door shut!

 

He does it because you allow it. Heck, I think you'd still be willing to be his back burner gal if he called and lied to you again.

 

The thing is - he's not leaving her. He's also not making effort for you anymore.

 

And now you've attracted another unavailable man. Find out why you attract them. There's a reason.

 

You can change this. It's up to you.

 

 

And I have suspicions your MM has another OW...one who seems more wiling than you and less hassles. After all, compliance and availability are at the top of the list for MM who seek out their willing victims.

[whichwayisup]

This the best thing that could happen to you even though you're in pain. The difference now is this pain is final as the A is officially over. His actions and the way he's treated you shows you what is going on. He never respected you, and it certainly didn't seem like 'love' on his end.

 

Please get yourself into counseling so you can find the woman you're meant to be. And so you can heal in a healthy way and be happy again.

 

Ignore any man right now, especially married ones. The last thing you need is a guy in your life. Take care and be kind to yourself.

[wmacbride]

At some point, being hurt becomes a choice. You keep making that same choice over and over again.

 

I know it's tempting to blame him for your pain, but that's not going to help you at all. It's best for you to figure out why you keep allowing him back into your life. Why do you keep making recuses for him? Why do you not feel you are worth more than some guy who's catting around behind his wife's back?

 

As it stands right now, his wife may well stay because of reasons you know nothing about, and may feel like she has little choice. You have all the opportunity in the world to get away from him, yet you don't. you keep laving the door wide open, get upset when he comes through it but get even more upset when he chose not to.

 

Instead of focusing on his wife and whether or not he loves her, focus on your own behavior. You paint a less than flattering picture of him, yet you choose to keep going back so long as he'll allow you to. Why? Sure, you deserve better treatment than what he gave you?

 

As it stands right now, he doesn't seem to love you either. Just himself.

[BaileyB]

That is exactly what I thought when I read this discussion... At some point, being hurt becomes a choice. YOU are the cause of your own pain.

 

Sad to me, because this MM is letting you go and you are hurting when you should be celebrating. More sad to me, that there is another MM circling and you could well fall into the same painful pattern, with another man.

 

I hope you find it within yourself to expect more from your life. Because, this is no way to live a happy life.

[S2B]

Scarlet, why does being the victim identify you?

 

3 MORE years have passed since you started this thread...when do YOU free yourself from this chaos/mess?

[Bittersweetie]

Scarlet, it took me a long time to finally learn that there are some questions in life you will never get the answer to. The only thing you can do is let go of these questions or they will eat you alive.

 

20+ years ago, my best girl friend - one I thought of as a sister - ghosted me and ended our friendship. To this day I have no idea why. I held on to the question - why would she do this to me? why? why? why? - for years...decades actually. Looking back, I harmed myself by holding on to that question. I finally let it go, and I now have amazing girlfriends, who are kind, funny, caring. I wasn't truly able to open up to new friendships until I let go of the pain of the one that hurt me.

 

You have been given a gift. MM is gone. You can heal and move forward and find happiness and strength. Good luck.

[Willow Woman]

 

It should come as no surprise that the week his wife was away had came and went and he didn't contact me to arrange, or cancel or explain. The very last thing he had texted me prior to her going away was "call you soon" and I haven't heard anything from him for months now. There was no "I can't see you anymore", there was no "stop contacting me", just complete silence from him...

I texted once to see if he was okay, no response. I called him once, no answer, no call back. No idea if he still has the same phone number. If it’s someone else’s phone number now, they never said wrong number.

 

But cue me to being back in confusion, why would he give me the impression that he was going to keep seeing me if his ultimate plan was to disappear without a word? He could have just done that without the false hope like I said earlier this year since we were already drifting. And to think back on the times when he would say he wouldn’t leave me hanging, that he’d tell me because he didn’t want to be a jerk like that, but I guess he has disappeared forever now, without a goodbye. We weren’t fighting or anything. The last couple of times I saw him, he would get a big smile on his face and was happy to see me.

 

Even though the writing was always on the wall and I could see the end coming, you’re still never fully prepared for the heartache, the pain and the grieving when it does happen. Add to it by not having anyone to talk to about it. I love him and miss him terribly. I want to be with him and I lost my best friend and there’s nothing I can do about it because he wants a life without me in it. I’m crying all the time.

 

Another married man is showing interest in me and he says he's in the process of divorcing but she's being difficult in mediation and that she already has a boyfriend. I’ve got both hands pushed out saying no, talk after it’s finalized. No way am I going to make another man feel better just so they can end up staying married to someone they don’t even love.

 

Scarlet, I have read every post of this thread and I wish I could hold you in my arms and tell you its going to be OK and to please move on with your life. Please find someone that isn't married and find love in the right place.

 

First off you need to stop picking married men. I couldn't figure out how old you are but you don't seem to have much self-esteem or confidence.

 

You kept trying to get a different job. Maybe you need help from a job coach with your resume and interview skills since others seem to get picked before you.

 

As far as the silent treatment, I had the exact same thing happen to me. He wanted to see me and I told him I had a cold and didn't want to give it to him on a Wednesday. Thursday I texted him are you ok and I got a yes. I NEVER heard from him again even after texts asking why, are you ok, don't leave me in limbo, and a final text about how he lied to me. Total and complete silence. I probably will never know what happened and I was making it all about me so I was miserable. When I finally realized that it wasn't all about me and I was better off, I could begin to heal. Trust me you will have really bad days but it will get better slowly.

Scarlet, please learn to love yourself.

[georgia girl]

Scarlett,

 

As hard as this is and as hurt as you are, I am actually happy for you that this happened. He was your Kryptonite. You were never going to get over him. You simply didn't want to. For all that the relationship had some fatal flaws, you loved him with your whole heart and were going to hang in there for as long as you could to see it through to the bitter end. So, in that respect, I'm glad he ghosted you. It's the first thing he's done that in all honesty is best for you, even if it hurts.

 

However, I'm still royally ticked at him. He owed you a goodbye. For as bad as he treated you, he owed you the dignity of good bye. To let you know that it was well and truly over. Because even now, I believe there is a tiny part of you that hopes he will come back.

 

Can i give you some advice? Please seek some counselling and share with a very non-judgmental counselor all of your thoughts and experiences. Work with that counselor to start to heal properly, not just papering over the cracks until he call again. I would love to see you have the strength to change your phone number, your job and your apartment... to make it completely clean of both memories and his ability to contact you. Once you know it's over - because YOU decided it's over - you will heal.

 

Scarlett, all along my heart has ached for you. You seem like a vulnerable woman who has low self-esteem and just wants to be loved. I get lonely - I've been there before - and I can understand how overwhelming it is. But, you are lovable and you can find love. First, you need to heal, then start to build up your own self-confidence and self-love. From there, you will establish hard and fast boundaries that will attract the right partner... a SINGLE guy who will treat you with the respect and courtesy that you demand.

 

Please, please, please with all of my heart and soul, I am begging you to ignore the new married guy and heal from this last one. We all want you to have a great life, Scarlett. But, not one of us can make those hard choices for you which will lead to a great life. If you keep making bad choices, you will experience this same pain again.

 

I'm rooting for you! GG

[Dreamwalker17]

If I understand correctly, he disappeared in July, 5 months ago?

And you’re crying and missing him?

Why? You should be celebrating your freedom from this toxic man who tortures you for so long.

You should be traveling and dating and having fun.

Please don’t waste another minute even thinking about this loser.

You don’t need him for anything.

Step out into the sunshine and finally start living.

[Scarlet2]

I had my first full week where I finally wasn’t crying or thinking about him but then two different people brought him back into focus and I’m back to crying again. They don’t know about what we did or that he’s not talking to me, they just know that we were really close in the office when he worked there.

 

I was working at my desk, not talking, minding my business, and my coworker comes up to me and nonchalantly says she talked to him recently because she needed to ask his wife about a job opening for someone she knows. She tells me she had told him that he sounded different and almost thought she had dialed the wrong number. He’d have to call her sometimes for info when he worked with us so she knows the usual way he talks on the phone and she said she couldn’t find the word to describe it but it confused her. It was him but it wasn’t him. Then she said that his wife’s office opens next month, and then she walked away. So then I’m left at my desk to wonder why am I being told this... I’ve never had any conversations with her about him and nothing happened prior for her to casually reveal this to me.

 

And then another day, out of the blue, a different coworker texts me a photo of him with one of his grandkids. Once again, there were no prior conversations that would lead up to sending me a picture. I didn’t ask why they sent it because I didn’t want to start a dialog about it. But seeing him in the photo upset me and I’m surprised I have tears left after all the crying I have already done last month.

 

It’s easy to say move on, let him go, but even when you are taking the steps to do it, these unpreventable bumps appear, whether it’s from coworkers, family or friends. All the ‘Have you heard from him?’ ‘Wonder how he’s doing?’ You’d pretty much have to go full witness protection if you want no one to ever bring him up. And I wouldn’t be surprised if people ask him about me too. We were at the hip for 12 years, you see him you see me, it’s automatic association.

[S2B]

I hope you will get help dealing with your feeling vs the evidence and reality of what has happened.

 

He's never REALLY given you absolute signals that you should even wait...or that he was even interested in seeing you.

 

Your reality may be skewed.

 

Please seek professional help.

[georgia girl]

Scarlett,

 

I think what you just experienced is actually pretty normal. I used to call them “near misses” and when I was trying to heal from a breakup, the near misses would also throw me. I would end up crying or day dreaming or any other thing that kept me thinking of him. But what I also experienced - and what I think you will too - is that the focus on him would wane again and that this time, it’s faster than the breakup. And next time, it will be faster than this time. Each time, it got easier. Then, I would actually get to a place where I would want to still care just because I was lonely, but knew that I was well and truly over him.

 

I hope today finds you a little bit better.

 

Hugs, GG

[Scarlet2]

I think I’ve entered into the anger stage of grief. A couple more people have quit at work and I’ve been so preoccupied with those responsibilities that I haven’t had time to go to the restroom, let alone think about anything. Haven’t been crying either. But then several different people kept saying his name in conversations recently, even though they weren’t talking about MM, just coincidence that he has the same name, but his name is not common enough to be heard as often as I was hearing it. And they would keep saying it instead of using pronouns, like when someone talks in third person, and I just wanted to scream shut up, I don’t want to hear his name. Even heard it on a radio ad too.

 

Then the other day my coworker sent me a random text again, and once again nothing was said prior to this happening, and it contained a screenshot of MM’s post of a newspaper ad of his wife’s new business with her photo on it. I didn’t understand why I had to see this and spite & bitterness rose up in me and I replied with something about newspapers are the toilet for birds and hamsters.

 

All the things I’ve read about NC, don’t talk to him, don’t think about him, don’t run into him, don’t stalk his social media, but nothing mentioned when it gets sent to you, unwanted.