death in MM's family

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Scarlet, I hope this doesn't sound like I'm needling you. I'm genuinely curious about these questions and think they may make your situation clearer:

 

- When was the last time he said he loved you, or wanted to be with you?

- When was the last time you kissed?

- When was the last time you were physically intimate?

 

It's just that this whole "extremely low contact" situation has gone on for so long that I can't tell if the affair is actually ongoing or not.

[Scarlet2]

Scarlet, I hope this doesn't sound like I'm needling you. I'm genuinely curious about these questions and think they may make your situation clearer:

 

- When was the last time he said he loved you, or wanted to be with you?

- When was the last time you kissed?

- When was the last time you were physically intimate?

 

It's just that this whole "extremely low contact" situation has gone on for so long that I can't tell if the affair is actually ongoing or not.

 

He never officially ended it, said he wanted a break after his dad died, but just like everyone here says, it's obviously over. I keep telling myself he doesn't want me so I've stopped calling, stopped texting, stopped trying to "run" into him at work, stopped asking to see him. I'm doing everything I can think of to be out of his life, but yet he's the one coming up with reasons to call and "run" into me now. I don't understand why he seeks me out and gets all happy and excited when he sees me, it confuses me. When I get a new job and if he happens to continue doing what he's doing, then that will prove I'm not reading into things but at the end of the day, it's still a fact that he doesn't want me because he's not doing the things you listed anymore and he's still with his wife.

 

I think it's stupid for him to bring his wife around his former AP. All those measures he took to ensure that I wouldn't call or text him while he's home so that she wouldn't suspect and now it's like he's throwing caution to the wind. Just because the A is over and there wasn't a discovery day doesn't mean there will never be a discovery day, you still have to take precautions and his actions say he doesn't care what happens.

[Nattie]

I think this is one of the saddest examples of low self esteem I've ever seen.

 

Scarlet, he put you on a "break" aka "I want nothing to do with you right now, but will probably need you for an ego boost down the road, so just sit tight and waste your life away"... But YOU are 100% choosing to stay sitting on this back burner. I sincerely wish you would wake up, and block this loser from your life. Why does he stop by your house? How about, WHO CARES, tell him he is NOT WELCOME to come to your house. Or call you. Or talk to you at work. Or acknowledge you at all. Tell him to get a life and stay out of yours. I'm pretty sure however, because this guy IS most definitely a narcissist, that if you did go NC, he would attempt to rekindle the affair, and you would go back to him before he even finished the sentence. He owns you, and he knows it. Please. Wake. Up.

[whichwayisup]

Your A IS over, no doubt about that. If anything, he's just going to act like many MM, flirt, get an ego feed and play games.

 

I guess I don't understand why you're still clinging to this. IGNORE him, start looking for another job or ask for a transfer somewhere else. Get him OUT of your head. He certainly isn't thinking of you so often like you're thinking about him so much. Let go completely. Grieve the loss once and for all, stop looking for little things that he does or doesn't do. Focus on you only, your own life, friends and family.

[Hope Shimmers]

I don't understand why he seeks me out and gets all happy and excited when he sees me, it confuses me.

 

That's exactly why he does it. To keep you off-kilter and always wondering and always hoping. He throws you crumbs and then when you gobble them up he is satisfied that you are still 'waiting around' in case he wants you, and that you will be there if he wants an ego boost.

 

The fact that he brings his wife around you?!? What an arrogant, narcissistic a**hole. He KNOWS he has nothing to fear because he knows you won't tell his BS. Can't you see this? Why not blow him out of the water by taking charge just once, and tell her what has been going on?

 

I don't understand why you can't see the points being made on all these pages of this and other threads. Do you not see what a jerk he is, and how horrible he treats you? Why don't you tell him where to go and be done with him? What are you waiting around for?

 

If you had a daughter and she was in this situation, what would you advise her to do? Think about it - really think about it.

 

When are you going to take control of your life, Scarlet? I say this as nicely as possible. I sooooo hate to see you continuing to waste your life on this loser, every day and month and year... and I am starting to wonder if you are EVER going to end this.

[whichwayisup]

You give really great and smart advice to others, just wish that you could take a giant step back and see your situation more objectively and really read all the advice given to you, let it sink in and see things from a new angle. Maybe you'd handle and react to this all differently and understand the best thing for you to do is cut him out of your life and find a new job.

[beach]

How was your day at work with him back today?

 

Looking at this from an outside perspective I hope you get a new job like now.

 

But also, there are millions of men in the world - available men who would love you dearly - enough to make you their whole world. And this guy isn't that.

 

This guy uses you, abuses you, manipulates you to feed his ego and has a wife whom he's never leaving.

 

Certainly you can find an available man that invests time and energy in you and makes you and mainly you his top priority.

 

 

 

FWIW - I think he brought his wife the past few times in front of you to throw it in your face that they are a couple and he is invested in her and her only. It sends you a clear message that he is done with the affair. It's mean of him - but he's been mean for a long time, you have just failed to acknowledge it.

 

How's the job hunt?

[Hope Shimmers]

But also, there are millions of men in the world - available men who would love you dearly - enough to make you their whole world. And this guy isn't that.

 

Beach made a great point. You may not think that it's true now, but this man is just one in a zillion million men in the world. It's so easy to think that this person is your "whole world". But he isn't. You have the entire world out there. There are millions of available men in the world who you can meet in the future who you will feel the same emotions or even more emotions about - even if it doesn't seem like it now. Don't give up on your life by giving up on that.

[pheonixrisen]

You seem to make everything he does about you....I just read through your thread ..what ever his facial expression are don't you get it he is blowing you hot and cold ..One day happy and excited next blowing you off...like a puppet master controlling his puppet ..and you seem to feed off and dissect every behaviour of his ...you are going to far and you may get burned badly at the end of it.

 

His wife has no clue otherwise you would not get hugs etc from her if she knew you would not be standing in the same room as her and def not attending family funeral ....and people in their social circle close in very fast and make loyalty very clear ..you will dumped so fast you would not know what hit you ...For now if anyone is aware no one wants to tell and create drama once it's out ...you are out ..so stop hanging around in their circle

 

As for his son ..that's disgusting as hell..

If the son knew he would offer you some kind of respect .

but no he thinks it's great to flirt with you...He does not know or the apple did not fall far from the tree his father hit it ..He thinks he has a chance ..you should not be friending his son and son friends.

 

I also read through your whole back story ...you are exactly where you are a year ago ..still speculating and dissecting every word and behaviour ..you will go insane ...This mm is not going anywhere ..If you put your foot down today he will be more than happy to waving you goodbye...

Edited February 25, 2015 by pheonixrisen

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

He never officially ended it, said he wanted a break after his dad died, but just like everyone here says, it's obviously over. I keep telling myself he doesn't want me so I've stopped calling, stopped texting, stopped trying to "run" into him at work, stopped asking to see him. I'm doing everything I can think of to be out of his life, but yet he's the one coming up with reasons to call and "run" into me now. I don't understand why he seeks me out and gets all happy and excited when he sees me, it confuses me. When I get a new job and if he happens to continue doing what he's doing, then that will prove I'm not reading into things but at the end of the day, it's still a fact that he doesn't want me because he's not doing the things you listed anymore and he's still with his wife.

 

Thank you for replying. But when was the last time he kissed you, or was intimate with you? Was it all the way back in September? I'm sorry, I just don't have a sense for when this actually ended. It sounds like it may have been over long before his father died.

 

I think it's stupid for him to bring his wife around his former AP. All those measures he took to ensure that I wouldn't call or text him while he's home so that she wouldn't suspect and now it's like he's throwing caution to the wind. Just because the A is over and there wasn't a discovery day doesn't mean there will never be a discovery day, you still have to take precautions and his actions say he doesn't care what happens.

 

I emphasized this for its truth. Why should he worry about a mistress who was willing to embrace his wife at his father's funeral and flirt with his own son? Scarlet, he doesn't care what happens. He doesn't care about you. Why do you care about him?

[Gigigirl]

I can sum up this whole thread and all your other threads with one sentence of advice...Stop looking for something where there is nothing.

 

You over think way too much, not everything has meaning. Hell, I doubt the MM has put this much thought into his own actions...

 

This MM could literally tell you "Scarlet, I hate your stinking guts" (NOT that I hope he would EVER say that to you or anyone else, just an example) and you would be on here in the next hour asking "Well what does he mean? Does he hate all my guts or just some of my guts? What if they weren't "stinking" guts and just regular guts, would he change his mind? And BTW how do I make my guts unstink so he won't hate them anymore?" and then you will proceed to ignore all the advice given to you.

 

I realize I am being dramatic and a bit of an a**hole but I really don't know what else to say that hasn't been said already. Please go get your life.

[gettingstronger]

I have to agree that all of this holds more meaning to you than to him- I think its hard for you to accept this but it really is holding you back from healing-reconciliation is hard work and I can tell you, the OW becomes a situation rather than a person in the marriage-please accept he has made his choice and start your healing-

[Wifeinpain]

I have to agree that all of this holds more meaning to you than to him- I think its hard for you to accept this but it really is holding you back from healing-reconciliation is hard work and I can tell you, the OW becomes a situation rather than a person in the marriage-please accept he has made his choice and start your healing-

 

i cannot like this comment enough. I had to come HERE to humanize the OW because she was just a sad little event in our lives. She became very unimportant in the grand scheme of things, which, by the way, had nothing to do with assets, children, or me forcing the issue.

 

I came HERE to read the stories of these women to see for myself that she wasn't evil, no matter the things she did or thought. Please take the advice from these ladies who have been there.

 

Also, as a BW...his wife has no idea,because if she did you wou know it. Believe it.

[Scarlet2]

How was your day at work with him back today?

 

Looking at this from an outside perspective I hope you get a new job like now.

 

But also, there are millions of men in the world - available men who would love you dearly - enough to make you their whole world. And this guy isn't that.

 

This guy uses you, abuses you, manipulates you to feed his ego and has a wife whom he's never leaving.

 

Certainly you can find an available man that invests time and energy in you and makes you and mainly you his top priority.

 

 

 

FWIW - I think he brought his wife the past few times in front of you to throw it in your face that they are a couple and he is invested in her and her only. It sends you a clear message that he is done with the affair. It's mean of him - but he's been mean for a long time, you have just failed to acknowledge it.

 

How's the job hunt?

 

At work, there's only two times throughout the day where our paths could cross. One is first thing in the morning when he starts his day but most of the time he's already gone before I arrive to start mine, and the second is when he's ending his day. And when his shift is over, he doesn't have to come into the office at all therefore when he does, it's because he chooses to do so and in the past it was always to see me. After the death of his father, that changed and I was accepting that we were over but now he has started to do it again and deliberately seeking me out, which has caused me to start over thinking.

 

Anyway, all this has made me upset, crying all the time again and I'm feeling grief all over because I keep telling myself it's over, he's not leaving her, he doesn't want me, he's never going to be with me, so I have to feel the loss. I'm fine not seeing him around, I'm not fine when I do.

 

The first day he was back at work, I had stepped away from my desk for less than a minute, when I was walking back, I heard him and I stopped where I was and saw the top of his head over the cubicles; he went to my desk and when I wasn't there, he left. Sigh of relief.

 

The second day he was back, today, I literally ran right into him as he was opening a door. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. He smiled at me and I just stared straight ahead and elbowed him to get through the doorway because he stayed standing there. I didn't say anything as I walked through but then he called back to me to help him with something on the computer. And of course I caved and helped him because the bosses would frown upon it if I didn't and even if he doesn't care, I'm still cautious of what I do so that I do not have a discovery day.

 

While I was helping him, he said he had to call his wife to ask a question and he kept trying to get me to talk while the phone was ringing but I wasn't going to say anything. The first thought that came to my mind was that he wanted her to hear me talking in the background and I wasn't going to have any part of that. She didn't answer his call.

 

I'm aware that his wife and I should both leave him because of how he's treated us but she's not going to leave him and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to leave either. Every time I say I'm going to, I change my mind. I know there's a big world out there but I just can't see myself with anyone else. I'm either going to be alone or I'm going to be with him, it won't be fair to anyone new that I still hold a torch for him, and since I'm not going to be with him I just need to start accepting that I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life and learn to be okay with it.

[bathtub-row]

You have no idea how you're single handedly ruining your life for a man who doesn't care how much of your time he wastes. You have it in your head that this is some great unrequited love but it isn't. One day, too late, you're going to realize just how much you were used and how much life you missed.

 

I used to think that my xMM hung the moon. I'm not kidding. I had never met anyone like him and never had such a soulful experience as I had with him. We talked all the time, for years and years and years. He told me we were soul mates. He never threw me under the bus, even when his kids found out about us. But one day I woke up and saw things very clearly, as though a veil had been lifted. He cheated on his wife for more than 8 years. He would still be cheating on her with me if I were willing. And he may be cheating on her now with someone else for all I know. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. I overheard him talking recently to a friend about how miserable his marriage is. Do you know what he said he should do? Buy a boat. Yeah, he'd rather stay in his joke of a marriage than get a divorce.

 

One day you're going to realize just how cemented your xMM is to his marriage and you that are not even a second thought when the rubber meets the road. And don't think I don't understand deep connections and love, because I do. But I will tell you that I am THRILLED that I am no longer a part of that mess. Being involved with a MM is about as sucky as things can get.

 

You think that this incredible feeling of euphoria that you feel is something that will be rewarded some day. You even think he feels it. I'm here to tell you that men think very differently about love and they do not put it as high on their list of importance as women do. You are side entertainment. Nothing more. And you play into his hands like a puppet. From where I'm standing, it's very painful to watch.

Edited February 26, 2015 by bathtub-row

[Hope Shimmers]

.... and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to leave either. Every time I say I'm going to, I change my mind. I know there's a big world out there but I just can't see myself with anyone else. I'm either going to be alone or I'm going to be with him, it won't be fair to anyone new that I still hold a torch for him, and since I'm not going to be with him I just need to start accepting that I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life and learn to be okay with it.

 

OMG. I can't believe this.

 

You are going to give up on your entire life because of a cheating married man who does nothing but play games with you for his own amusement?

 

I put up with CRAP from my ex-MM for way too many years. Like bathtub-row said, I thought he hung the moon. Now I would give anything - ANYTHING! to not have wasted almost a decade of my life on someone who wasn't worth my time and didn't deserve the love and devotion I gave him. I pray that in my late 40's I am still young enough that I can live and enjoy the rest of my life, whether or not another man is part of it. But I know I can't get those years back. They are gone.

 

You are making a HUGE mistake and some day - probably when it's too late - you will realize it and be sorry. I've posted enough to your threads and nothing that I or anyone else says sinks in, so I'm out.

 

Please, wake up Scarlet and stop throwing your life away for a cruel MARRIED man who doesn't give one cr@p about you.

[beach]

Really? He decides to call his wife the minute you're in front of him? Really? He is just extremely cruel! And yet you say nothing to point out how rude and mean he is...? There is betrayal to self in your silence.

 

 

 

Ok then... I guess you've stated your decision clearly to us.

 

There's nothing left to help you with - especially since you won't help yourself.

 

I'm very sad for you - that you've decided to settle for so little. Best wishes for your future.

 

 

If you decide to start taking charge of changing your life let us know. I can't read anymore of this sad scenario. Handing all your power to any man is way out of balance, especially one who who doesn't respect and honor and love you.

[whichwayisup]

Scarlet, there is NO affair anymore. You are just an ego feed to him now. He's not called you to get together, he's not having sex with you, seeing outside of work, nothing. He chats with you a bit at work and goes home to his wife.

 

I think you're totally fooling yourself and giving yourself false hope that he is into you. His actions show otherwise.

 

It's sad that you are taking the littlest of things involving him and analyzing it to death, reading into it when it means nothing.

 

You're in for a huge fall and big hurt soon enough.

 

And yes he is not leaving his wife. Why would he? You're making a bad mistake by hanging onto him. He doesn't even treat you well.

[pheonixrisen]

while I was helping him, he said he had to call his wife to ask a question and he kept trying to get me to talk while the phone was ringing but I wasn't going to say anything. The first thought that came to my mind was that he wanted her to hear me talking in the background and I wasn't going to have any part of that. She didn't answer his call.

 

I'm aware that his wife and I should both leave him because of how he's treated us but she's not going to leave him and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to leave either. Every time I say I'm going to, I change my mind. I know there's a big world out there but I just can't see myself with anyone else. I'm either going to be alone or I'm going to be with him, it won't be fair to anyone new that I still hold a torch for him, and since I'm not going to be with him I just need to start accepting that I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life and learn to be okay with it.

 

Scarlet ..He had to call his wife right at the time he asked you to his office...not 5 mins later or before ...and you think he is doing it coz he wants to make his wife aware of his ow (if even that ) in the background ..There could be a number of reason but you still see what you want to see ...could it be he just wants to throw his wife at your face coz he knows how it hurts and bothers you ..so just looking to provoke you ..could it be he just enjoys the power to push limits with his wife ...

 

What ever it is its a cruel joke...and you don't have proper family to rally around you ...your idea of love and coupledom is so warped ..its sad to read what you are doing to your self and frustrating to digest ...

 

Whatever opinion you have of his wife and their marriage (she should leave etc...) she hands down has a better position and is treated well ...she will not have it any other way that's self respect ...and what she doesn't know about she can't control ...but if it was out she will never accept a ow that's dignity and respect for herself ....you on the other hand have none .....U not only accept to be the least ...but accept all his bad treatment of you his blatant disrespect of not even acknowledging you exist around people ..not even giving you the attention that most ow receive ...Some people get off on playing with others emotion ..that's him.

[truncated]

It sounds like you are seeing something that isn't there, and assigning way too much menaing to the things he says/ does.

 

You're making everything into something about you, when it probably isn't. I almost wonder if his putting his wife "in your face" is more to drive home the point to you that he is married and isn't leaving.

 

That's what you should be taking away from all of this. He's trying to show you and you refuse to see it.

[Jessie1231]

I completely agree with truncated. Yes, he's been bringing his wife around. In all likelihood, it is because the affair is and had been over (to him) for quite a while, and he's just returning to his normal life.

 

He works with you, so he has to see you. He is acting like nothing happened because in his married life, nothing did happen. You've said several times that he wants to take the easy way out by making you tell his wife. I can almost promise that isn't the case. Having the OW tell the wife about an A is by far "the easy way" to expose an affair. He doesn't want her to know. He wants to keep living in his marriage and forget mistakes he made, and he wants his wife to never find out.

 

Only once you accept that he is done and has moved on with his life will you begin to feel ok again.

[Gigigirl]

Scarlet,

 

Please help me understand because I have searched all your threads hi and lo and I cannot figure it out...What is so great about your MM? What drew you to him in the first place? Does he even still exhibt those qualites that attracted you in the first place? All I found about him from you is that he is overweight and is the burnt of alot of "fat" jokes. Now there is nothing wrong with being overweight but the way you let this man treat you and how you go on and on and on...I just figured this guy HAS to be Paul Walker level of fine, I mean that MUST be the only reason to be treated so badly? But instead he is an overweight a**hole playing you like a fiddle.

 

Then you throw a pity party after confirming you will DO NOTHING to change your situation. The nerve. I think you LIKE wallowing in your own misery. YOU LIKE IT.

 

Let me break something down to you because I have seen nothing but pages upon pages upon pages of the kindest sweetest advice as far as the eye can see...You won't get that from me so brace yourself

 

1) You are nothing more than a GAME to your MM. He isn't even YOUR MM so stop calling him that NOW. You are not his OW, he isn't even claiming you anymore, he dumped YOU and has had no problem moving on from you AT ALL.

 

2) He is probably disgusted by your lack of self respect. Not to mention you lowered your stock by flirting with his son... I think he may actually view you as an expierement, like how far can he go? How rude and disrespectful can he be until you snap?

 

3) You will NEVER be his wife, he doesn't even want you as side piece anymore. That ship sailed long ago.

 

4) You better pray upon your lucky stars that his wife never finds out because as soon as she does YOU ARE TOAST. She will probably rip into you and MM will LET her. He won't protect you.

 

Like I said...that is your life over there embarassing YOU! PLEASE go get it!

[gettingstronger]

Hope, I hope you don't mind me using you as my example but OP please take an hour or so to read through Hopes posts- she is an educated, successful woman that went to the ends of the world for a man that was not worthy of her-it has taken her a while to accept this but through it she grew and her advice to you is spot on-its not from a BS, its not from a scorned woman, its not from someone out for revenge or in a fog-its from someone that has been there and done that-please learn from her-

[Nattie]

This is exactly how this is going to play out.

 

He keeps provoking you, wanting to see if you're wisening up, or are still his eager little toy. One day he's in the mood and wants to kiss/grope/sleep with you... Whatever. You of course are right there to satisfy his urge without question. You think everything is great, he loves you, you're back together. He pulls back, says he needs a break. You sit and wait. Rinse and repeat. You have a DDay. This explodes out into the open, and he paints you as a complete psycho stalker to his wife. They block you, tell everyone you are obsessed with him, possibly even seek a restraining order, and humiliate you in front of everyone at work, and at home. When this comes out Scarlet, he is going to throw you under damn TRAIN. It won't even be a bus. You will never recover from that one, and you are going to wish with every fiber of your being that you had listened to the previous advice on this forum.

[elaine567]

This is exactly how this is going to play out.

 

He keeps provoking you, wanting to see if you're wisening up, or are still his eager little toy. One day he's in the mood and wants to kiss/grope/sleep with you... Whatever.

You of course are right there to satisfy his urge without question. You think everything is great, he loves you, you're back together.

He pulls back, says he needs a break.

You sit and wait.

Rinse and repeat.

You have a DDay.

This explodes out into the open, and

 

he paints you as a complete psycho stalker to his wife.

 

They block you, tell everyone you are obsessed with him, possibly even seek a restraining order, and humiliate you in front of everyone at work, and at home.

 

When this comes out Scarlet, he is going to throw you under damn TRAIN.

 

It won't even be a bus. You will never recover from that one, and you are going to wish with every fiber of your being that you had listened to the previous advice on this forum.

 

^^^^This is correct and you may even lose your job over this, is that what you want?