Forgive your WS's who are remorseful.

[Popsicle]

If they are remorseful, forgive them, renew your trust and move forward in your marriage. If you have a remorseful spouse, there is no point in staying in your M, and not forgiving them, not forgetting about it, nor moving past the negative event. I say this because, if a BS is just going to continue to crap on their WS, then what was the point of the WS staying with the BS if they still get a sort of similar crap treatment they would if they had left the M after an A? Your remorseful WS is not doing you some kind of favor by staying, they are staying because they truly want to be with you and both of you have the goal to be happy.

 

You may say " But I am so hurt". I'm sure you are and I'm also sure that you've probably done things to hurt your WS too. Those problems are to be worked on later. The important thing is that they want to stay with you, so forgive them. Don't obsess. This is only possible if they are truly remorseful for hurting you and breaking the commitment they made. Nothing to do with the kids, house, finances, comforts, or what everyone else will think.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Popsicle

[gettingstronger]

So- where is this coming from? Who said they are treating their remorseful spouse badly?

[atreides]

Very heartfelt, but i side with the betrayed as to what they decide even with a remorseful spouse... as they have the "choice" where as they did not when their spouse strayed and made the choices for them.

However, i can think of one story here on LS that broke my heart where a wayward wife did not get her husband back after radically changing herself.

 

The thing is, don't make moral equivalents such as:

 

you've probably done things to hurt your WS too

 

Infidelity is the greatest breach of a marriage and thus why it consumes the most energy and has the largest repercussions.

 

I however agree, that:

 

if a BS is just going to continue to crap on their WS,

 

is not healthy but even if the wayward does everything they can... it is up to the betrayed and I support their decision to stay or even after the wayward is a new person, they still divorce... the end product is a new wayward, likely a better person after digging deep and the betrayed got to witness it which likely gave them some peace but may be too much to forgive and are better off leaving.

 

Infidelity is a monster... I would add to that of the message of the OP, never let that monster out.

[Popsicle]

So- where is this coming from? Who said they are treating their remorseful spouse badly?

 

Some are. It's better in the long run to not deny it. But this thread was not made to make a BS feel like a bad guy. It was made to illuminate and help clear the grey clouds away that hover over a M.

[HereNorThere]

Forgiveness is healthy but giving your trust to someone who clearly can't be trusted is just silly.

 

Forgiveness doesn't require you to stay with a bad partner. Most healthy people wouldn't date a known cheater much less marry one.

[Popsicle]

Forgiveness is healthy but giving your trust to someone who clearly can't be trusted is just silly.

 

Forgiveness doesn't require you to stay with a bad partner. Most healthy people wouldn't date a known cheater much less marry one.

 

You are posting in the infidelity section. If you can not trust your WS again and/or continue to think they are a bad partner, then you need to leave them.

[ComingInHot]

I think that's really nice Popsicle *

[ComingInHot]

I mean your thread topic. I'm not responding to anything else after that I just read and realized how my sincere post might have come off.

[DKT3]

Are you talking to us or your MM BS?

 

This isn't as simple as you think, forgive or leave? Really?

[HereNorThere]

You are posting in the infidelity section. If you can not trust your WS again and/or continue to think they are a bad partner, then you need to leave them.

 

If you are married to a known cheater, you are with bad partner. If that's not bad partner, there are no bad partners.

 

There may be a day when you can trust your WS again, but I don't really think most BS do, especially after particularly evil or long term deception.

 

Would you trust a baby sitter who used to beat kids? Of course you wouldn't, so why would you trust a known cheater? Sure, if they do the checklist, go to therapy, show remorse, in time, they should be able to earn back your trust. Blindly just giving it back doesn't happen in most cases nor should it.

[Popsicle]

I think that's really nice Popsicle *

 

Thanks.

 

Are you talking to us or your MM BS?

 

This isn't as simple as you think, forgive or leave? Really?

 

I am talking to the infidelity section of LS. I believe those are the only two choices. I never said it was easy though, no way, but a choice must be made between the two. To not make that choice keeps the grey cloud hovering.

[HermioneG]

Thanks.

 

 

 

I am talking to the infidelity section of LS. I believe those are the only two choices. I never said it was easy though, no way, but a choice must be made between the two. To not make that choice keeps the grey cloud hovering.

 

We just had a really long thread about forgiveness. You should look at it. Forgiveness means different things to different people, and they may not line up with what it is to you. There are many paths to peace and happiness. Not everyone travels the same way.

[BetrayedH]

I appreciate the sentiment in your post (well, most of it anyway).

 

I think the challenge is that there's no time frame. It would be nice to be able to instantly forgive (and forget, as you mentioned). Wouldn't it be nice to just decide to "move on?"

 

I think back to my time as a BS and all it takes is to read just some of my thread from back in those days to realize just how much I wanted to just forgive. Frankly, I was desperate to do exactly that. Instead, I was plagued by hypervigilance and obsessive thoughts. I had occassional outbursts of anger but all in all, I tried my damnest to not "crap" on my spouse. That's what I see from most BSs here. The person that most wants the BS to be over it is the BS.

 

Besides the need for time just in processing the emotional damage, time is also needed to rebuild trust.

 

You didn't reference any particular time frame in your post but conventional wisdom tells us to allow 2-5 years. I'm not sure I'm compelled by your post that the BS should allot any less time than that. Perhaps more importantly, it's the WS that should really think about exactly how long the natural consequences of their behavior may have an impact and if they're not up for it, make use of the door.

[revelations]

If they are remorseful, forgive them, renew your trust and move forward in your marriage. If you have a remorseful spouse, there is no point in staying in your M, and not forgiving them, not forgetting about it, nor moving past the negative event. I say this because, if a BS is just going to continue to crap on their WS, then what was the point of the WS staying with the BS if they still get a sort of similar crap treatment they would if they had left the M after an A? Your remorseful WS is not doing you some kind of favor by staying, they are staying because they truly want to be with you and both of you have the goal to be happy.

 

You may say " But I am so hurt". I'm sure you are and I'm also sure that you've probably done things to hurt your WS too. Those problems are to be worked on later. The important thing is that they want to stay with you, so forgive them. Don't obsess. This is only possible if they are truly remorseful for hurting you and breaking the commitment they made. Nothing to do with the kids, house, finances, comforts, or what everyone else will think.

 

Forgiveness does not mean that you have to stay with a wayward spouse. Truthfully the one doing the forgiving is not required to prove anything. I have never forgiven a cheating ex to improve their life. I always did it to improve my own. As a BH myself I was hurt by my xWW's actions and I had to forgive her. However she is one of the last people I would ever trust again.

[goodyblue]

I appreciate the sentiment in your post (well, most of it anyway).

 

I think the challenge is that there's no time frame. It would be nice to be able to instantly forgive (and forget, as you mentioned). Wouldn't it be nice to just decide to "move on?"

 

I think back to my time as a BS and all it takes is to read just some of my thread from back in those days to realize just how much I wanted to just forgive. Frankly, I was desperate to do exactly that. Instead, I was plagued by hypervigilance and obsessive thoughts. I had occassional outbursts of anger but all in all, I tried my damnest to not "crap" on my spouse. That's what I see from most BSs here. The person that most wants the BS to be over it is the BS.

 

Besides the need for time just in processing the emotional damage, time is also needed to rebuild trust.

 

You didn't reference any particular time frame in your post but conventional wisdom tells us to allow 2-5 years. I'm not sure I'm compelled by your post that the BS should allot any less time than that. Perhaps more importantly, it's the WS that should really think about exactly how long the natural consequences of their behavior may have an impact and if they're not up for it, make use of the door.

 

I would hope most would make use of the door if five years is how long they have to wait to be forgiven. Five years is a lot of wasted time.

[BetrayedH]

I would hope most would make use of the door if five years is how long they have to wait to be forgiven. Five years is a lot of wasted time.

 

I would tend to agree that 5 years seems a stretch, although I suppose that date range refers more to fully reconciled than forgiveness. I can't tell you how many times I "forgave" my wife in my 8 month effort. Heck, I wasn't even close to really forgiving in that time frame.

 

5 years a lot of wasted time? Perhaps. Perhaps not if the marriage ends up fully reconciled.

[Steen719]

Forgiveness does not mean that you have to stay with a wayward spouse. Truthfully the one doing the forgiving is not required to prove anything. I have never forgiven a cheating ex to improve their life. I always did it to improve my own. As a BH myself I was hurt by my xWW's actions and I had to forgive her. However she is one of the last people I would ever trust again.

 

Yep, this is it right here in a nutshell. Forgiveness should be for yourself in order for you to live a good life without resentment, whether you stay with your WW or WH or not. If situations were so simple to say if you stay, you must forgive in someone else's time frame, then wouldn't it be easier to make a clear decision? "If you forgive me in a year, its all good. Or if you are going take 2 years to forgive me, then forget it...I mean shouldn't you be over it by now?"

 

UGH...doesn't forgiveness take some time? Isn't it different for each person? Does the individual situation matter in how easy it is to forgive someone? Did remorse come instantly for the WW or WH or did it take some time to come to that realization? Does every BS know what true remorse looks like? Does it look the same as fear of losing one's family or money?

 

My 2 cents....to make something that was so important in a marriage boil down to a simple formula to make things all better is a little insulting. However, I do think for the sake of the BS, they should forgive their wayward. Trust them? I'm with revelations. I wouldn't trust my XH, ever.

[Popsicle]

I never said you have to stay to forgive, you absolutely don't have to stay, but if you do stay (and you have stayed if you have not left), then you should forgive if your WS is remorseful.

 

I would hope most would make use of the door if five years is how long they have to wait to be forgiven. Five years is a lot of wasted time.

 

It is wasted time to stay and not forgive. (which includes trust)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Popsicle

[Hardgrind]

My opinion is that I would tend to agree with forgiving and reconciling with a remorseful spouse. My BS clearly isn't remorseful so we are moving quickly towards D. So what is the consensus view of what qualifies as sufficient remorse in a WS? Are there key actions and words you would expect from them to convince you that they are remorseful?

[JustJoe]

I never said you have to stay to forgive, you absolutely don't have to stay, but if you do stay (and you have stayed if you have not left), then you should forgive if your WS is remorseful.

 

 

 

It is wasted time to stay and not forgive. (which includes trust)

This post is silly. Forgiveness cannot be forced, or scheduled like a dentist appointment, or even like the affair, itself. WS...thursday, 3:15 PM. Have affair, 3:45 do laundry. BS.......Saturday, 8:25 am mow lawn, 9:25 forgive cheating spouse, 10.25 have snack. Life doesn't work that way. Forgiveness comes or not, according to the comfort and trust level of the BS. Some take longer than others. A remorseful WS needs to understand this and make allowances .

[drifter777]

 

I think back to my time as a BS and all it takes is to read just some of my thread from back in those days to realize just how much I wanted to just forgive. Frankly, I was desperate to do exactly that. Instead, I was plagued by hypervigilance and obsessive thoughts. I had occassional outbursts of anger but all in all, I tried my damnest to not "crap" on my spouse. That's what I see from most BSs here. The person that most wants the BS to be over it is the BS.

You weren't desperate to forgive - you were just desperate. You wanted the shock and pain and the betrayal to just go away. If you can say the magic words "I forgive" it helps settle everything down for the time being. But then real-life intrudes on your bullsh*t fantasy and you to face the truth. You know how it works better than most. A BS will say and/or do extremely stupid things in an attempt to get their world back to normal. There is no worse time in a man's life then the first few weeks after d-day.

[Popsicle]

My opinion is that I would tend to agree with forgiving and reconciling with a remorseful spouse. My BS clearly isn't remorseful so we are moving quickly towards D. So what is the consensus view of what qualifies as sufficient remorse in a WS? Are there key actions and words you would expect from them to convince you that they are remorseful?

 

The remorse part is important. If a WS is not remorseful, I don't see forgiveness as possible. I think you feel it when a spouse is remorseful. He/she will not only be focused on you and with doing what it takes to help you heal, they will be sincere and humble about it and they will not have a problem verbally expressing this remorse (because we are not mindreaders, they have to say it). Their remorse is more something that is felt by you, rather than seen by you so it's hard to explain. Ideally, they feel remorse as soon as possible, but I can see it taking a minute for some WS's to really understand the damage they have done to you, especially when a BS's does not leave (which leaving sometimes helps a blind WS's see it).

[DKT3]

I think this really comes down to mindset. Those who's mindset can excuse and understand how one could lie, betray and down right stump on their spouse would also likely think or believe one is owed forgiveness. Forgiveness is for the wronged party.

 

I'm yet to say to lovin "I forgive you" maybe someday I will, maybe I won't. However I don't beat her over the head with her affair and never really did.

 

I don't feel forgiveness is a must for any route the couple decides to go. Lovin says she doesn't need it to move forward, and doesn't want me to stress out working for it. When and if it comes it comes. I want to say it, I want to feel it but it would be empty.

 

I'm over it, the affair, that time, her actions. I moving forward, she is moving forward, we're doing this together one direction one focus. Digging for forgiveness is moving back.

 

Now I'm sure she would love to hear it, maybe one day she will. This is in no way to punish her I've made that clear, its simply something that has to happen within me, for me and I need to mean it.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I doubt very many BS stay in the marriage solely in order to punish the WS forever. Like, I don't think the BS goes, I hate him, you know what I'll do, I'll stay and make him miserable for the rest of his life, that'll teach him!

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that thought temporarily crosses many BSs minds, and sometimes yes, that's exactly how the "R" plays out but I don't think that's very often the intent.

 

In my experience, many BSs want to forgive, to move on and try to do just that every day, but forgiveness isn't a thing you can just will into existence. If it were that easy, well... The thing is, as I said, even though you WANT to forgive, it is possible to still have those angry/disgusted/spiteful feelings toward the WS and sometimes it bubbles to the surface and comes out in various and hurtful ways. Bickering, being spiteful, dredging up past mistakes, hell even RAs can and does happen but rarely is that part of the initial plan.

[Mr. Lucky]

I never said you have to stay to forgive, you absolutely don't have to stay, but if you do stay (and you have stayed if you have not left), then you should forgive if your WS is remorseful.

Given the stages a BS goes through, the 2-5 years goes by trying to determine if "remorseful" is indeed accurate and enduring.

It is wasted time to stay and not forgive. (which includes trust)

See above. How long before you trust someone who betrayed you in the most basic and profound way? It's not granted, it's earned over time. 2 years probably not long enough for most people...

 

Mr. Lucky