Wishing I was gay/bisexual...

[gaius]

My self esteem is fine, but it doesn't hurt to get confirmation that you're at least still physically attractive every now and then (especially when you've had the difficulties with women that I have...)

 

Double standards are my main problem and I genuinely do not like the ones with men and women. They make me angry. Being bisexual would have been a huge advantage to me personally. Why? Because since women almost always offer nothing more than sex, men tend to offer a lot more than that. I think if you're bisexual you have a lot more chances in romance, meeting people, networking and career opportunities overall, which is what we all want.

 

Women are still great and everything but the problem is dealing with them in sex and relationships. They complicate things, often needlessly. This stems from the fact that all things being equal, on the 'sex and relationships' front, women have it MADE, so they are more inclined to be difficult to please i.e. spoilt. Therefore as a guy you need to bring a lot more to the table in order not to be rejected immediately or at some point in the near future.

 

That's where confidence comes in. I think that confidence is very important but it's overrated in sex and relationships as it really isn't the be all and end all of attractive qualities. However for men the confidence is 100% NECESSARY in dating because you need to approach, you need to put up with loads of rejection, you need to have all your **** together already, and you need to call her out on her bull**** when it comes. Again you just need to bring more to the table.

 

Which arguably is sort of fine if it helps you push towards the life you want and the man you want to be. However men are left to their own devices a lot more and in today's society where independence and individualism is sooooo valued, it's much harder to reach that lifestyle when there is minimal support to help you get there. I'm 30 now and a late bloomer it seems and there's a good chance I'll be very happy by my late 30s/early40s... which, again, is arguably fine but I believe it shouldn't have taken this long.

 

All the qualities I had at 23 (including the fact that I looked pretty good) largely got me nowhere with girls however because of my social anxiety/confidence issues. However those issues don't make you unattractive to girls but does prevent you forming relationships with them due to the rigid gender roles. So as a young man like this there's a catch 22 - you need confidence to get girls and girls to get confidence.

 

I think it doesn't have to be that way and gender roles/expectations need a lot more work for a more balanced 'dating scene' i.e. more balanced perhaps like the ones within the gay community.

Look, all that social anxiety and confidence stuff is just a mask for what's really going on. I've had plenty of situations where I had no confidence it was going anywhere on a mental level but my body still made me talk to one woman or another. It's like when you're hungry. If you don't eat for a while you can sit there with a big slab of food in front of you and no matter how hard you try not to eat eventually your body is going to make you pick it up. The same thing goes for women and dating.

 

If your body is doing the opposite, fighting your mind and sabotaging your efforts with women, then that's not what it's hungry for. And dude, I had a long period after high school where I didn't date anyone and not once was I joking with my male friends about blowing them or having legions of gay guys coming on to me. That's your body making you pick up what you're hungry for. If you can just get your mind comfortable and in tandem with it you might find yourself enjoying some pretty amazing experiences.

[hellon]

Rather than write-off everything I said and label it misogyny, why not challenge some of the points I made. Is there no truth in any of it in your opinion?

 

I'll admit I went a bit OTT with the generalisations on women... but there was still a certain truth to even that.

 

I label what you wrote as misogynistic because regardless of if there is any truth to the statements you're making, there is anger behind them, and they're directed towards women as a whole.

 

But OK, I'll address some of the specifics:

 

My self esteem is fine, but it doesn't hurt to get confirmation that you're at least still physically attractive every now and then (especially when you've had the difficulties with women that I have...)

 

Double standards are my main problem and I genuinely do not like the ones with men and women. They make me angry. Being bisexual would have been a huge advantage to me personally. Why? Because since women almost always offer nothing more than sex, men tend to offer a lot more than that. I think if you're bisexual you have a lot more chances in romance, meeting people, networking and career opportunities overall, which is what we all want.

 

Double standards are frustrating for all of us. And yes, if you were bisexual you would technically have more options for dating. Do you really think this would also apply to networking and meeting people in general? Your sexual preference doesn't stop you from meeting new people and making friends, does it?

 

As far as "women almost always offer nothing more than sex"... maybe if you're frequenting brothels. What are you basing this on?

 

Women are still great and everything but the problem is dealing with them in sex and relationships. They complicate things, often needlessly. This stems from the fact that all things being equal, on the 'sex and relationships' front, women have it MADE, so they are more inclined to be difficult to please i.e. spoilt. Therefore as a guy you need to bring a lot more to the table in order not to be rejected immediately or at some point in the near future.

 

There is this misconception that because traditionally men are expected to do the approaching, women are just sitting around saying "yay" or "nay" and don't ever have to experience rejection. It's just not true. To accuse women of being picky because they have certain expectations, when they have to be "picked" in the first place, is a double standard in itself. Sorry, but we're allowed to have our own set of standards, that you may or may not be up to. As far as "complicating things," well yeah, women are complicated. This is not a new concept. We want guys to think and communicate the same way we do, and vice versa, and it never, ever happens. It's not because we're spoiled, but simply because we're wired differently. This is just one of those things that you have to learn to live with.

 

That's where confidence comes in. I think that confidence is very important but it's overrated in sex and relationships as it really isn't the be all and end all of attractive qualities. However for men the confidence is 100% NECESSARY in dating because you need to approach, you need to put up with loads of rejection, you need to have all your **** together already, and you need to call her out on her bull**** when it comes. Again you just need to bring more to the table

 

All the qualities I had at 23 (including the fact that I looked pretty good) largely got me nowhere with girls however because of my social anxiety/confidence issues. However those issues don't make you unattractive to girls but does prevent you forming relationships with them due to the rigid gender roles. So as a young man like this there's a catch 22 - you need confidence to get girls and girls to get confidence.

 

Confidence IS important, and real confidence isn't something that comes from external approval. If you think that you need girls to get confidence, you're misunderstanding the concept, and what it is that we're actually attracted to.

 

"You need to call her out on her bull**** when it comes"... umm... what? Are you looking for someone to date, or to own? Can you see why this might come across as misogynistic?

 

I think it doesn't have to be that way and gender roles/expectations need a lot more work for a more balanced 'dating scene' i.e. more balanced perhaps like the ones within the gay community.

 

As others have pointed out, the gay/bi community have their own issues to deal with. You're looking at just the numbers and idealizing, without knowing what it really means to be a part of that community. I agree that in general, gender roles are frustrating, but they're pretty ingrained in our society. I just think you'll be better off if rather than staying angry about them, you stop blaming women, and find some level of acceptance.

[boilingpoint]

Gay men have a host of other problems they must deal with.

 

It's just how it is. Some hetero guys must face a lot of rejection and get very little to no interest thrown their way.

 

It sucks, but the sooner you get used to it, the better. I will always have a little bit of resentment, but I am much better than I have been in the past because I have accepted my path.

 

You see many male posters struggle with anger that comes from rejection, and then calm down and accept it to varying degrees. I have seen it many, many times online.

 

It's true, as you say, that's just how it is. I just don't believe is HAS to be that way. Girls should get off their asses more... guys should hang back more. Equal opportunity - everybody wins.

 

I'll work on the being less resentful but there's no way I won't be angry next time I get rejected - it's a privilege to be able to sit there rejecting people for bull**** reasons and girls do that the most. It's a social construct that I had a problem with. An injustice in my opinion.

[JuneJulySeptember]

It's true, as you say, that's just how it is. I just don't believe is HAS to be that way. Girls should get off their asses more... guys should hang back more. Equal opportunity - everybody wins.

 

I'll work on the being less resentful but there's no way I won't be angry next time I get rejected - it's a privilege to be able to sit there rejecting people for bull**** reasons and girls do that the most. It's a social construct that I had a problem with. An injustice in my opinion.

 

I definitely believe that if it were equal opportunity (like gay guys) that it would solve a lot of problems in the dating game. For both men and women.

 

But it's just not like that.

[hellon]

It's true, as you say, that's just how it is. I just don't believe is HAS to be that way. Girls should get off their asses more... guys should hang back more. Equal opportunity - everybody wins.

 

I'll work on the being less resentful but there's no way I won't be angry next time I get rejected - it's a privilege to be able to sit there rejecting people for bull**** reasons and girls do that the most. It's a social construct that I had a problem with. An injustice in my opinion.

 

Yeah... you're always going to be resentful if you get angry every time you get rejected. Just because you don't like someone's reasons, doesn't mean they're bull****.

[WhiteTan]

I'm gay, and unless you're looking to sleep around with a bunch of nasty dudes, it's not any easier.

 

9 times out of 10 when i have a crush on a guy, i find out he's straight. otherwise, if he isn't straight, he's taken, is avoiding commitment, not interested, or has a lame personality.

 

go back out there and mingle with the ladies (IN PERSON, not online) OP

Edited October 6, 2014 by WhiteTan

[boilingpoint]

Yeah... you're always going to be resentful if you get angry every time you get rejected. Just because you don't like someone's reasons, doesn't mean they're bull****.

 

Well if the reasons are either that she's got a b/f or she finds me repulsive in every way - then ok don't date me.

 

Here's an example of what I think is a bull**** rejection though: The last girl rejected me AFTER we slept together on the first couple of dates - no it wasn't terrible, it was actually OK, but was definitely lacking chemistry. I also don't think she performed any better than I did. Anyway, she said 'we didn't click', which was kind of true, however we didn't know each other! Do you really have to reject me completely because 'we don't click' after 2 friggin dates?

 

No... it's just that she chooses to reject me flat because she doesn't feel she needs to make any effort here - too many other options sexually who will make all the effort for her. There's no need to work on compatibility or consider an individual guy's character or mindset i.e. what ultimately matters the most.

 

I definitely believe that if it were equal opportunity (like gay guys) that it would solve a lot of problems in the dating game. For both men and women.

 

But it's just not like that.

 

Cool - you know where I'm coming from with this.

 

I'm gay, and unless you're looking to sleep around with a bunch of nasty dudes, it's not any easier.

 

9 times out of 10 when i have a crush on a guy, i find out he's straight. otherwise, if he isn't straight, he's taken, is avoiding commitment, not interested, or has a lame personality.

 

go back out there and mingle with the ladies (IN PERSON, not online) OP

 

Ok, point taken about being gay. I was pretty sure there was a catch somewhere (i.e. not being able to have kids). Anyway you guys are still able to goto gay clubs and have gay friends who have other gay friends etc etc. So us straight guys can't be ruining it THAT much.

Edited October 6, 2014 by boilingpoint

[WhiteTan]

Ok, point taken about being gay. I was pretty sure there was a catch somewhere (i.e. not being able to have kids). Anyway you guys are still able to goto gay clubs and have gay friends who have other gay friends etc etc. So us straight guys can't be ruining it THAT much.

 

It depends on where you live really. We only have two gay clubs over here and the majority of people who go there are straight girls with their boyfriends lol, so our clubs got taken over by straight people who wanna watch the drag shows.

 

One of my (straight) friends is in a relationship with this random guy she approached at the mall last week, and they're falling in madly in love. As a homosexual, I can't do that, because it's generally assumed that everybody is straight unless suggested otherwise. so if i see somebody i like in public, i can't even make an approach cause some fellas would be highly offended. There are a lot of limitations, but it depends on where you live i suppose.

 

I feel like if you switch up your approach from online dating to trying to meet girls in person you might have better luck. or if you have friends who can set you up, that might be a good way to go too!

[hellon]

Well if the reasons are either that she's got a b/f or she finds me repulsive in every way - then ok don't date me.

 

Here's an example of what I think is a bull**** rejection though: The last girl rejected me AFTER we slept together on the first couple of dates - no it wasn't terrible, it was actually OK, but was definitely lacking chemistry. I also don't think she performed any better than I did. Anyway, she said 'we didn't click', which was kind of true, however we didn't know each other! Do you really have to reject me completely because 'we don't click' after 2 friggin dates?

 

No... it's just that she chooses to reject me flat because she doesn't feel she needs to make any effort here - too many other options sexually who will make all the effort for her. There's no need to work on compatibility or consider an individual guy's character or mindset i.e. what ultimately matters the most.

 

I think not having good chemistry is a valid reason to not continue dating someone... you either have it, or you don't.

 

I will give you that people are too quick to write someone off after a couple of dates in general- but this is not AT ALL gender specific. Just look around on this forum, you'll see plenty of posts made by females who were dumped after they slept with a guy because he got what he wanted, were faded after a couple of seemingly great dates, etc., etc. I find it curious that you're complaining about something that most women have also had to deal with, but still finding a way to blame it on us being lazy.

[gaius]

It depends on where you live really. We only have two gay clubs over here and the majority of people who go there are straight girls with their boyfriends lol, so our clubs got taken over by straight people who wanna watch the drag shows.

 

One of my (straight) friends is in a relationship with this random guy she approached at the mall last week, and they're falling in madly in love. As a homosexual, I can't do that, because it's generally assumed that everybody is straight unless suggested otherwise. so if i see somebody i like in public, i can't even make an approach cause some fellas would be highly offended. There are a lot of limitations, but it depends on where you live i suppose.

 

I feel like if you switch up your approach from online dating to trying to meet girls in person you might have better luck. or if you have friends who can set you up, that might be a good way to go too!

I'm sure you could go up and just start a conversation. Feel it out a little. If he's making decent effort to stay engaged with you I doubt you're going to get a punch in the face if you ask for his number or anything. Most people have some sort of an instinctual grip on what's going on. Which is probably why gay guys are flocking to boiling and women aren't feeling a connection when they have sex.