Danger?

[mourningMM]

and many times they were completely normal people before someone came home and said things like:

 

you let yourself go

we have nothing in common

I love someone else

You mean nothing to me

I wish I'd never met you

I hate you

I want to leave

I'm not happy

You never put dog food in the dog-food dish, see that is why I'm leaving.

You never stop crying, that is why I'm leaving.

You never shut up, that is why I'm leaving.

I deserve to be happy, that is why I'm leaving.

Think of me as a bad investment, cut your losses.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do this, it just happened.

Deal with it.

 

Hearing any one or all of those things can break a person. And there wouldn't be such a large number of counselors and psychiatrists putting people who are going through separation and divorce on medications if the emotional and mental damage caused by this horror wasn't real.

 

Not everyone can afford care or medicine...and not everyone believes in god.

[Mr Spock]

When we're enraged, we all have thoughts that lean towards grandiose-such as driving your car into a house. But your children weren't the reason you didn't do it, the fact that you're not clinically insane (or temporarily) did. You see, if you weren't in full control of your faculties at all times even when you were at your lowest point you wouldn't have THOUGHT of your children, you would have simply acted. Anything else is premeditated.

 

 

I'm not debating the dangers of incurring wrath. I'm stating that no one has the right to inflict it upon anyone else, for any reason. Doesn't matter how badly you were hurt. Doesn't matter how big the betrayal was.

 

Surely your concern for the feelings of your deceased MM's wife should somehow negate your own anger at your ex husband and his OW? Somehow concern for one while rage at the other seems false, incorrect.

[Ladyjane14]

KMT asked a question about the possibility of real danger. I think in some cases there is. It's certainly possible for people to lose complete control in emotionally charged situations. I think that's probably rare, simply because those BS's who are raising children have alot to lose.

 

Answering KMT's question is not meant to show hostility to OW's in general, nor is it meant as "tough talk". I'm not pleased to recognize a predisposition towards vindictiveness, but it exists within me nevertheless.

 

I'm usually a pretty nice person. I'm committed to my husband and my family, and not dealing with infidelity at this time, thank goodness. In fact, I haven't dealt with a physical affair at all. And it's probably a good thing too....

 

Because I would NEVER have stopped hurting the OW, until she had been repaid for my pain. I'm not proud of that. I'd like to think that I'd be reasonable in any given situation, but the sad fact is...that I know myself better than to believe that.

 

Faced with the prospect of losing my husband and the break up of my family dynamic, I'm not certain that my current personality would remain in tact. I would consider the interference in my family as an assault, and respond in kind.

 

KMT asked a question. If she only gets responses from OW's, who have rationalized or justified their own participation in an extramarital affair, I doubt she'll get the larger picture. OW's bent on their course, should concern themselves with this question, because I do think it has merit.

 

I think that safety for the OW might depend on what Izzybelle said about 'not wanting the husband back'. Maybe if I was glad to be rid of him, I'd take it all better. I'd still make sure that the OW didn't get much. My anger with him would leave him a financially broken man.

 

And she'd NEVER have any contact with my children. This would be the interference that drove me over the edge. I'd be willing to do ALMOST anything to prevent it. Mother bears are not reasonable people. An OW's best bet would be to leave me and my children entirely alone, to satisify herself with the theft of my husband and not to look for more.

 

My religious belief would stop me from actually killing her. That, and the fact that my sense of responsibility in raising my children would demand that I keep myself out of prison.

But all in all, I'd rather live in a tent, and give my money to the lawyers than to allow an OW to influence my children's value system. I would limit myself to legal methods for the most part though.

 

But....if she was stupid enough to let me goad her into losing her temper, I'd be more than happy to break her nose for her. I'd just be sure to let her swing first. (And yes, Spock, I'm fully capable of getting the job done. )

 

Regardless of my husband's involvement and blame for the affair. I would still hate and despise her. Afterall, my husband may have had issues with me that were causal in his decision to go outside the marriage. He may have had reasons. I can't imagine an excuse for the OW that would mitigate her involvement...not if she already knew he was married.

 

Call it vindictive. I'd have to agree with you. Would it be a waste of my time, and my effort? I'd agree with that too. Would that stop me? Sadly, I don't think so.

 

I'm just so thankful to never have been tested so sorely. I'm a nice person, and the scary thing for me would be that I don't think I'd be able to stay that way.

 

Maybe it comes down to the individual that you are dealing with. My thought process tends to be very black and white about what is wrong and what is right. Other people can deal better with shades of grey.

 

Our current civil laws don't protect us from the interference of infidelity and unwanted divorce. They are more designed to provide an easy ending for marriages, probably in an effort to keep a WS from committing domestic violence in his/her frustration to be free. This is likely a good thing. and protective of more people than if divorce was indeed difficult to obtain.

 

However, it leaves alot of frustration on the part of the BS, in which they have very few options. For some people, I think that could produce a certain amount of vigilantism.

[Mr Spock]

That's fine, and it's your opinion. And really, it's just all talk until it's proven, isn't it?

 

 

And all I want to do is state that no one on here has to take that from someone with your mindset simply because you're angry.

[Mr Spock]

PS-I simply mean that NO ONE is justified in hurting someone else simply because they're enraged. I don't wish to see any of the OW on this forum put up with abusive behaviour simply because at some point they may feel regret for their actions.

[mourningMM]

that the behavior is inappropriate and ill-advised.

 

I get it.

 

But KMT's question was whether there is danger for an OW from the BS.

 

And to summarize my answer

 

If that BS has been pushed beyond the edge of reason by the betrayal, by the betrayer, or just as a result of their own weakness, YES there is danger.

 

Danger to anyone is wrong...but KMT needs to assess whether her MM's W could be pushed beyond the edge of reason by her MM, by finding out about the affair, or just by her own behavior. If so, then she is the potential target of a dangerous situation.

 

I'm not condoning it, agreeing with it...just providing my perspective that it exists.

 

And really, it's just all talk until it's proven, isn't it?

 

Mr. Spock...you may not realize that this sounds like baiting a person who is struggling with a problem. You need to understand that there is a good deal of energy that goes into self control for some people, and you should respect and appreciate that effort for civility. My behavior and decisions need to be applauded, not questioned. I've gone to extreme measures to ensure that I don't take my anger out on my Ex, his fiancee' or the world in general, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still exist.

 

What you say and how you say it is hurtful...hopefully you aren't as harsh with the people in your life who are less than perfect.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

PS-I simply mean that NO ONE is justified in hurting someone else simply because they're enraged. I don't wish to see any of the OW on this forum put up with abusive behaviour simply because at some point they may feel regret for their actions.

 

I agree completely. I think that those of us who do recognize a predispostion to vindictiveness would certainly do well to address it. If not in a case of infidelity, then life will hand us some other situation, in which we will be called upon for self-control.

 

I also think that it's wise for an OW, who is bent upon her course, to consider this question. She needs to be prepared to turn down the emotional heat BEFORE she engages in any kind of confrontation with a BW. It's unwise to throw gasoline on a smoldering fire.

[Debster]

PS-I simply mean that NO ONE is justified in hurting someone else simply because they're enraged. I don't wish to see any of the OW on this forum put up with abusive behaviour simply because at some point they may feel regret for their actions.

 

I agree it is a common act of 'decency or a moral code', so to speak. However, I believe that NO ONE is justified in hurting someone else simply because they get hot for a married man. I don't wish to see anyone being betrayed or hurt simply because at some point someone feels they can't control themselves.

 

See how it goes both ways?

 

If someone is going to purposely (not those that find out later on) destroy someone's lives, than IMO they were the ones who first broke the 'decency or moral code'. It's like calling the kettle black to then sit there and say that you should then be treated better than the person they harmed. Everyone is defined by their actions. If you show, through your actions, a complete disregard for other people's feelings and lives, than IMO, you shouldn't ask that the person you wronged should treat you a certain way.

 

I hope that NO ONE incurrs the wrath of a betrayed spouse. But keep in mind, that there are women out there (and I think I might be one of them) that would do anything in their power to protect their families and life. To assume that they will follow a moral code (that you feel doesn't apply to you) is ridiculous, IMO.

 

I know I'll probably be blasted by this post. And it might even be edited or deleted by the mods (which I think would be a shame).

[blind_otter]

I posted this on another thread, but I was kinda tricked into being an OW briefly - I was hanging with this tattoo artist right after I split with my exH and he moved out. Yeah, well, I was at his house, shirtless no less, and someone bangs on the door. "Oh, sh*t, it's Keiko!" He says. He had told me he and Keiko were split up but apparently they weren't.

 

She kicked the door in and bloodied his nose, and then came down the hall after me. I jumped out the window to avoid being attacked. She had about 4-5 inches and 30 lbs. on me so I would have gotten my ass kicked by her.

 

Yeah, so, there ya go. That's my story.

 

Oh and once I saw my exBF in a club with his new girl (this was after he broke into my house, while he was still stalking me) and I walked right up to him and smacked him upside the head and punched him in the throat, then walked away. So, like, his GF comes up to me and says "I don't want to fight you!" I gave her a blank stare, I really barely even looked at her, and turned and walked away...it wasn't about her....he was the a**h***.

[Mr Spock]

I have been unfailingly polite and courteous while discussing the very volatile nature of this thread.

 

 

I don't think you do get it.

 

And I don't feel controlling violent impulses is something that should be "applauded".

 

You want to be congratulated for not murdering your ex husband? Someone to recognize what great restraint you've shown? Come on.

 

What you say and how you say it is hurtful...hopefully you aren't as harsh with the people in your life who are less than perfect.

 

In this instance, I disagree.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Debster

I agree it is a common act of 'decency or a moral code', so to speak. However, I believe that NO ONE is justified in hurting someone else simply because they get hot for a married man. I don't wish to see anyone being betrayed or hurt simply because at some point someone feels they can't control themselves.

 

See how it goes both ways?

 

If someone is going to purposely (not those that find out later on) destroy someone's lives, than IMO they were the ones who first broke the 'decency or moral code'. It's like calling the kettle black to then sit there and say that you should then be treated better than the person they harmed. Everyone is defined by their actions. If you show, through your actions, a complete disregard for other people's feelings and lives, than IMO, you shouldn't ask that the person you wronged should treat you a certain way.

 

I hope that NO ONE incurrs the wrath of a betrayed spouse. But keep in mind, that there are women out there (and I think I might be one of them) that would do anything in their power to protect their families and life. To assume that they will follow a moral code (that you feel doesn't apply to you) is ridiculous, IMO.

 

I know I'll probably be blasted by this post. And it might even be edited or deleted by the mods (which I think would be a shame).

 

 

Wrong. See no matter HOW severe your extreme emotional state may be, it does not in any way compare to physically harming someone or even taking their life.

 

Murder and assault are not comparable to infidelity.

 

It's a poor comparison Debster. Reading your and ladyjane's post makes me feel like I'm reading a disclaimer to future behaviour. Let's hope you two never have to put your theories to the test, shall we

[Debster]

See no matter HOW severe your extreme emotional state may be, it does not in any way compare to physically harming someone or even taking their life.

 

Not once did I discuss taking someone's life. I believe I mentioned making their life miserable and getting back at them. That I would do. And I wouldn't talk about extreme emotional states as not comparing to physically harming someone because I (luckily) have never been in an extreme emotional state. I can't say what would be worse, but I'm thinking that getting my self esteem, life and heart ripped out of me would be worse than an OW getting a black eye or a bloodied nose. One can be fixed quite easily. The other can't. I still have friends who are coming to grips with their husband cheating and the end of their marriage (and in both cases, the OW did not get the man in the end) years afterwards.

 

Murder and assault are not comparable to infidelity.

 

I agree. They are not the same. However, as I said earlier, IMO, I would rate a bloodied nose or black eye as less of a big deal than having destroyed someone's life. Note, I am NOT saying that they should get the crap kicked out of them. Also, if I did destroy someone's life, I wouldn't be so quick to judge what their reaction should and should not be. I think you seem to view infidelity as something that can easily be overcome and I view it as something that can have lasting, hurtful effects. If I was to have a choice between someone punching me in the nose or someone fuc*ing my husband - I would pick the punch in the nose. That's my call. Besides, I probably wouldn't do something physical to the OW if I was put in this place. Instead, I would find ways to destroy her life or make her miserable in other ways.

 

Reading your and ladyjane's post makes me feel like I'm reading a disclaimer to future behaviour. Let's hope you two never have to put your theories to the test, shall we

 

Funny, I view it more as answering the post with my personal opinion. I believe KMT should know that there are wives out there who share my view (as there are probably those who don't). I think you're missing the big picture - infidelity IMO, is about more than your partner getting action somewhere else - it cuts to the core and can destroy someone's life. When that happens, you never know what the end result will be.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Reading your and ladyjane's post makes me feel like I'm reading a disclaimer to future behaviour. Let's hope you two never have to put your theories to the test, shall we

 

See...I get in trouble every time I come in here!

 

I wouldn't bother at all if it weren't for the fact that some questions, like this one, need more than one POV to show the big picture.

 

But I will take your words to heart Spock, and endeavor to minimize my propensity for mayhem.

 

Have at it ladies, the podium is yours.

[izzybelle]

i know we've mostly been talking about physical danger but i was thinking about this last night...

 

exMM (#2s) wife is obviously capable of verbally abusing me and i'm guessing i'd lose out on a physical challenge if the situ ever presented itself. i have a feeling i'm a lot smaller and it probably wouldn't be much of a fight...

 

but .... i think i fear MM#1 W's retribution more. she really could destroy my life and the life of my kids if she found out and wanted to. she could make my life so miserable that i would have no choice but to move..... that scares me much more than someone punching me in the face. it could hurt my kids.... that would be so much more painful to see than anything anyone could ever do to me physically.

[jade_nc]

there's a reason that terms like "crime of passion" and "temporary insanity" exist.

 

while most of us would love to believe that we can have absolute control over our emtions regardless of the circumstances, it's an idealistic view, at best.

 

also, remember that you don't know BW and can't predict her actions or reactions.

[Mr Spock]

If you're really worried about it, break the news and go on vacation. If your apartment burns down, you'll have a pretty good idea of what happened. And you're a smart cookie so you'll be fully insured.

 

 

I think you're missing the big picture - infidelity IMO, is about more than your partner getting action somewhere else - it cuts to the core and can destroy someone's life. When that happens, you never know what the end result will be.

 

 

I suppose the big lesson to be learned is that these things only destroy you if you let them. That they're only as important as you let them be. That's the real big picture. As long as you're breathing life goes on.

 

I'm not trying to argue.