Abuse?

[tippydog90]

I am in the process of divorce from my husband of five years. We have a three year old daughter whom we adopted at birth. This post is very, very hard for me to write, but I need guidance and support because I feel shattered, heartbroken, and full of anger. My self esteem feels shot right now and I am angry at myself for ever falling for his lies. Here is a list of what I have gone through during the marriage, in my heart I know it is emotional abuse, but I need to understand how to deal with it and move on.

 

Miscarriage at 8 weeks after which he asked me "how long is it going to take you to get over this?

Telling me a month after the miscarriage that I was "too old to get pregnant"

Telling me (in spite of the fact that I am pretty) that I was "only average in looks"

Signing up for a dating site when we were separated for two weeks. Surfing Craigslist and writing to women in the "casual encounters" section, trying to find out where to pick up prostitutes in the town we lived in.

Constantly berating me because I love and care for my dogs

Constantly belittling my friendship with my best friend who happens to be a man and whom I knew long before my husband.

Refusing to pitch in on anything to buy for the house, in spite of the fact he has a very, very hefty inheritance. (he refused to pay for half our daughters swingset while at the same time buying a 3,000 transmission for his bike)

Arguing over ANYTHING to do with money, no matter how simple.

Silent treatment all the time

Absolutely NO empathy or compassion and emotionally void

Screaming at me when my dog was dying and I asked him to help me carry her to the car

Saying "I am sorry to hear that" when I texted him to let him know my mom had passed away

Telling me he has no respect for women.

And most recently, telling me he never loved me at all and only married me to get out of the barracks

 

There are many, many more examples but I won't go into them here. The last few months in the house he kept telling me he didn't love me, never loved me and didn't want to work on our marriage, while at the same time trying to have sex with me. I did for a while and then finally pulled away to protect my heart. I am absolutely devastated at what he has done to our family and our little girl who adores him. I know he is sick, narcissistic and has sociopathic traits. The lack of empathy and compassion in him is profound. So why do I keep crying? Why do I feel so devastated? I KNOW he will never change. I know he is incapable of caring, so why does my heart feel so broken. I know in large part it is because of my daughter and in spite of all his tendencies, he is a good and loving father to her. I just don't know how to move on. I so wish I never had to see him again so I can heal, but I do. I just have this fantasy in my head of the "perfect" family and that family does not and will not exist. I also feel so much guilt over this and what it means for our little girl. Any advice, support, or guidance would be really appreciated now because I feel like my soul is crushed. I have been reading lots of books on emotional abuse, etc. and it has helped some, but I just cannot seem to let go of this man and the dreams I had for our family.

[sdrawkcaB ssA]

The best thing you can do is turn around and look at what you typed. Don't you feel anger??? Well you should.

 

Sure I sound harsh, but it seems nobody is sticking up for you, and you need to find strength before he stomps what life you have right out of you.

 

I hope you are granted custody as your daughter will be their to double your strength. As he may ask and use your daughter as leverage against you. Be aware, that he will always make things tough on you, so use your motherly instincts to protect your daughter and you will find all the strength you need to get through this.

 

You need to be angry, as your divorce will make you feel even more lost while you are weak. Turn your tears into power to move on. Once you are divorced there is nothing stopping you in finding a life you deserve. Stop thinking that your dreams have come to an end. As long as you live your dreams will always be there waiting for you. You, just have to make every step be one that you feel confident in, and always believe in what you want, in not having any expectations to what may come.

Edited October 3, 2014 by sdrawkcaB ssA

[Zahara]

Tippy, it's perfectly normal for you to feel this way. If you've read and done enough research whether through therapy or through your own reading, you will understand that these types of relationships especially ones where it's riddled with emotional and mental abuse, detachment is extremely difficult.

 

It's a like dog being kicked over and over again, and before you know it, it has it's tail between it's leg and even through the abuse, it's still ever waiting to receive some sort of validation and attention. You've been conditioned and diminished. You want to be accepted and validated. Somewhere along the line you lost yourself and you've become an extension of your abuser. So you cling and you pine. Waiting and desperate for some resemblance of love and care.

 

You're grieving the dream you had of the family you wanted and the reality of it is hard to take. Denial is part and parcel of the process but as you separate yourself and your emotions start to settle down, you'll be able to start looking at this differently. In time I am sure you'll feel extremely grateful that the divorce happened because eventhough he treats his daughter well, she is witness to how he treats you. And you don't ever want your child thinking that it's appropriate for a man to treat a woman that way because she is one day going to be an adult and possibly make the same mistakes you made by staying with that man.

 

It's going to hurt and it's going to be very hard to let go. I've left a very narcissistic relationship and as horrible as he was to me, I still cried and felt the pain of accepting that he never really loved me in the true sense. His lack of empathy was frightening. I understand how you feel. Part of holding on is the inability to accept that it is what it is. It's not going to change.

 

As horrible as he sounds, you're still emotionally attached to him. But that attachment is not a justification to stay. In time you're slowly but surely let go and you'll realize it was all for the best.

 

Stay strong. There's a better life out there. Granted you lost this dream, it doesn't mean that you're never going to go out there and create other dreams and opportunities for yourself and your child. You still have her, your family, your friends -- this man doesn't have to be the end all be all in your life.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Zahara

[tippydog90]

I do feel anger, intense amounts of anger over what he has done to our family, and to my daughter's life and what this means for her. I hate him for what he has done. I am and always have been a very, very strong woman and have gone through very difficult events in my life, but this has just crushed me inside. And I am struggling to pick up the pieces for some reason. Zahara you are so, so right, I am finding detachment incredibly difficult. And I guess I am seeking some kind of validation as screwed up as that sounds. When he said he never loved me and essentially just used me, I cannot tell you how devastated that made me feel. I feel used, dirty and just empty inside almost. And although I love my daughter with all my heart and soul, for him to allow an adoption to proceed knowing he didn't love me at all (if that is truly the case) is absolutely unforgivable. Now she has to not only deal with the fact that she is adopted and all the emotions that involves, but she is also from a broken home and I HATE him for that. I am getting custody and he will have visitation, though he likes to travel and work on the road, so I am not expecting him to have a huge presence in her life. I just feel like the last five years have been nothing but a huge joke for him. And his complete lack of empathy is frightening and it makes me feel sick. I feel sick also knowing that I will have to in some capacity, deal with him the rest of my life.

[Zahara]

I am and always have been a very, very strong woman and have gone through very difficult events in my life, but this has just crushed me inside. And I am struggling to pick up the pieces for some reason.

 

I understand. I have been through a lot of strife in my life and always fought through it but that relationship really tore me to shreds. It's still very fresh and raw so it's going to be hard to pick up the pieces but slowly you will. It's going to be a long journey but you'll get there.

 

Zahara you are so, so right, I am finding detachment incredibly difficult. And I guess I am seeking some kind of validation as screwed up as that sounds. When he said he never loved me and essentially just used me, I cannot tell you how devastated that made me feel. I feel used, dirty and just empty inside almost.

 

In therapy it was often said that toxic and abusive relationships are the hardest to detach and heal from and it is so because of the damage and destruction it causes to your sense of self. And with these types of relationships, the more abuse you endure, the harder you try to make that person love you, care for you, validate you. It's a form of conditioning. It's control. The hardest part was accepting that he never truly loved me. How could he? For one to love, empathy has to exist. How do you otherwise connect? It's hard not to take it personally, but you must never make this about you. Don't feel used, dirty and empty. Feel blessed that you know what it feels like to love and care for someone else. That you have the capacity to give of yourself to another. This man will stay stuck in his dark hole. You however, will flourish from this.

 

And although I love my daughter with all my heart and soul, for him to allow an adoption to proceed knowing he didn't love me at all (if that is truly the case) is absolutely unforgivable.

 

He was probably just going with the flow. In his mind, his "love" is the right way to "love". His concept of love is far different from yours. And maybe in his own little toxic mind, he did really feel something but lacking depth or maturity.

 

Now she has to not only deal with the fact that she is adopted and all the emotions that involves, but she is also from a broken home and I HATE him for that.

 

She's going to be fine. My parents used to fight like cats and dogs and I mean literally tear at each other verbally and physically. As a child, I always wished that they went separate ways. It was too much to take and there were times I wanted to kill myself because I couldn't stand being in an unhappy home. Rather parents that are happily separated than parents that are unhappily together. You don't want that for her. She's still going to receive abundant love and care from you, family, friends, relatives -- it won't be a broken home because she will still have family surrounding her. This man doesn't make or break the concept of family and a happy home for her or you.

 

I am getting custody and he will have visitation, though he likes to travel and work on the road, so I am not expecting him to have a huge presence in her life. I just feel like the last five years have been nothing but a huge joke for him. And his complete lack of empathy is frightening and it makes me feel sick. I feel sick also knowing that I will have to in some capacity, deal with him the rest of my life.

 

I think the hardest part about this all and knowing how they deal, he will probably cause tension and issues for you. These types are vindictive. It's going to be hard for awhile but you'll get stronger in learning how to deal with him.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Zahara

[tippydog90]

Thank you so much Zahara. Your post really helped me see things more clearly. I really loved this man, thought I could heal the lonely and angry man he was (because at times he was very sweet), but I couldn't and in the process I wounded myself. I had so much compassion and love for him as he spent the majority of his life alone and I wanted to bring the love to his life I thought he wanted. Now I see why he was alone all his life. I wish I knew how to detach myself, it has only been a few months since he left, but the last year has been extremely difficult. I do so much better when he isn't around and is working on the road and I don't have to see/talk to him. But the minute I see him again, the emotions just rush to the surface and I feel the heartbreak all over again. I wish I didn't have to see him, but I do. And I don't know how to just detach myself completely from him and these feelings. I am just so angry right now and in so much pain, it feels all consuming and I want it to stop. And I hurt so, so deeply for my little girl, I cannot even describe it.

[Zahara]

Thank you so much Zahara.

 

You are most welcome. I'm glad to help.

 

I really loved this man, thought I could heal the lonely and angry man he was (because at times he was very sweet), but I couldn't and in the process I wounded myself. I had so much compassion and love for him as he spent the majority of his life alone and I wanted to bring the love to his life I thought he wanted. Now I see why he was alone all his life.

 

It comes from us being empathetic, and most likely co-dependent. We are nurturers, givers, healers -- we want the best for people even when it's at the expense of our own emotional and mental health. I am sure you saw the signs before you married him but with love and care, you thought you could heal him. This is where we have to look within ourselves and figure out our own issues. This wasn't just about him, we played a part in it and enabled it.

 

I wish I knew how to detach myself, it has only been a few months since he left, but the last year has been extremely difficult. I do so much better when he isn't around and is working on the road and I don't have to see/talk to him. But the minute I see him again, the emotions just rush to the surface and I feel the heartbreak all over again. I wish I didn't have to see him, but I do. And I don't know how to just detach myself completely from him and these feelings. I am just so angry right now and in so much pain, it feels all consuming and I want it to stop. And I hurt so, so deeply for my little girl, I cannot even describe it.

 

During therapy, the consistent was that NC was the only way to save your sanity and heal from it. Unfortunately, it's going to be hard for you to go through the process of healing and detachment because he keeps coming in and out of your life. The source of your pain is always there. And having a child together, there is no way to avoid him.

 

Have you thought of seeing a therapist? Someone to talk to in terms of how to cope and manage your feelings, specifically how to manage your interactions with him.

 

It's only been months. It's going to take much longer for you to feel some relief. Relationships that have been emotionally and mentally abusive take much time to recover from. You've taken the right steps so far in removing yourself. So, half the battle won. You found the courage and strength, as hard as it was to take that first step, the most difficult one. So, know you have it in you to get through this. He's just a man, a sick one at that. He doesn't have any power over you now. I would suggest you try to find a therapist to help you through this as well. Take that next step into empowering yourself.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Zahara

[tippydog90]

I am pretty much exactly as you described Zahara, a nurturer - compassionate and empathetic. I try to do as much in this world as I can to give back and make the world a better place. Guess that is reflected in my occupation and my involvement in dog rescue. I think that is one of the things that hurt the worst was how he always attacked my love for my dogs and my involvement in rescue work. I felt as though I constantly had to defend any time I spent with them or spent working in rescue (which wasn't excessive by any means). I felt like I had to defend practically everything, even purchasing a swing set for our little girl. He is such an angry person inside and has low self esteem (I see that now) and so everything that was wrong in his life somehow became my fault. Particularly the last two years. I honestly feel emotionally wrung out, drained, and empty at times. I am in counseling right now and that helps, but we live in a very, very small town so my choices are extremely limited here. Also on antidepressants because I was almost non-functional at work and couldn't focus on anything. But in spite of all that the enormity of pain and anger I feel is all consuming at times. After we split he moved 3 hours away because he "hated the town we lived in and wanted to get away from me". Now he just rented a place here in this small town we live in and it makes me sick. I saw his truck in town yesterday and literally went in to almost a panic attack where I couldn't breathe. I don't want him here, in spite of the fact it might be better for our daughter, I just can't cope with it. I am so afraid he is going to start hanging out in bars in this tiny town, hook up with some woman and parade around town with her, further humiliating me and causing even more pain. I am trying to get a transfer with my agency now and am hoping that happens soon. He has turned my whole life completely upside down. And on top of all that he tells me I am the one with the "problem", he cannot see what his words and actions have done to my heart and he doesn't care. And I finally have realized that nothing I say is going to make a difference because he has no heart, no empathy and no compassion and it makes me sick inside. It is so, so hard to detach and even harder now that he is back living in this town again. In my head I know he is sick, know this isn't my fault, yet in my heart I still feel sorry for him and I don't know why. I think he will die a lonely old man because he is just not capable of love. I tried so long and so hard to do all I could to bring some happiness and peace to his life and it was all futile. And I think in a way maybe I turn that back on myself and look at myself as a failure and I know I shouldn't. Anyway, I have to see him today and it just makes my stomach sick to think of it....

[spiderowl]

I am sorry to hear of your situation. You are going through a grieving process for the kind of marriage you'd hope it would be. You are also worried about the future and the effects on your daughter.

 

It's good that you've identified that your husband has sociopathic tendencies and no empathy, but of course it's been terribly hard for you to cope with. We don't go into relationships expecting people to turn out uncaring and unsympathetic but these things creep up on us when the courting phase is over and a partner is no longer on their best behaviour. It's natural for you to want to shut him out so you can heal.

 

It may help if you realise that you will feel better eventually, it just takes time for your mind to integrate everything that has happened. Talk to your friends, if they are sympathetic, family and so on. If you can, see a counsellor, it all helps to understand that you are doing what you can to improve things and that there is a lot to process.

 

You've done your bit; you tried to love him and bring up your child in a happy family environment and your partner just wasn't capable of being the kind of guy you both needed. Take it one step at a time, forgive yourself for having sad or down days, praise yourself for having realised you needed to change things and for taking those difficult steps. Keep posting here as there are people who understand.

[tippydog90]

Spiderowl you are right, I am grieving what I wish we could have had. And it hurts so deeply. I wanted a lifetime of love, to grow old with someone, and for my daughter to have a wonderful happy family. It is hard to let go of that dream, though I know he was not capable of living that dream as well. I am 49 years old, starting all over again with a young daughter and that is so hard. I wanted someone to love and grow old with, and I feel now as though the possibility of that ever happening is pretty remote. So it is hard in that respect as well. I think if I were younger, it would perhaps be a bit easier to let go of the dream, though I am sure the pain would still be enormous. So I guess I grieve for the family I wanted so much, grieve for my daughter growing up without her daddy around every day, and grieve for what I see as likely a pretty lonely future for myself. At my age, and after all this - I don't think I will ever trust again. It is too painful. And you are right, he was so different at first, so sweet and kind and loving. It is like the man I married disappeared. I don't know where he went, but I will always miss the man I knew. I dismissed things I probably shouldn't have dismissed and tried to justify it by his inexperience in relationships and naivety, but it eventually became clear that it was much more than that. I do think some, not all, of what he did was because he is in many ways kind of clueless about relationships and socially awkward, but there was also a true undercurrent of cruelty as well, and complete lack of empathy. It does me no good to dwell on the "whys" anymore, it is what it is and the damage is done. Now I am left to pick up the pieces and move on and create a beautiful life for my precious daughter and myself. I will get there.

[LuckyLady13]

TippyDog, you're in the Rocky Mountains? Must be beautiful around there!

 

Listen, I think everyone is giving great advice but there are two key points I want to stress for you because you're in emotional turmoil at this moment and it's hard to think straight under those conditions.

 

1 - When he said he never loved you, he LIED. Too bad his version of love is twisted and sick. He wants you, he got attached to you and when an abuser finds someone they "love", they attack and belittle their object of desire (you) in an attempt to trap and keep you.

 

2 - Your daughter won't see being brought up in a broken home in the future but rather a smart mom who loved her, adopted her and realized a mistake with dad and got out because she's so smart.

 

When I was young, I got caught up in the system. They were being sued across the country at the time by parents for breaking up families so despite the horrific amount of abuse I endured, they would take me away from my parents and then give them another chance and another and another. I wanted to be adopted by a loving family so bad I can still remember now at 41 how bad I wanted it. I fantasized about having adoptive parents who would let me have a bedroom with kid stuff in it and be nice to me. I can imagine though if I did get adopted if things went the way they should have back then, and my new mom made a boo-boo with some guy but got out? I'd admire her for the rest of my life!

 

She's 3? This is primetime to get out and move on! She's so young yet that she'll have years to experience something so much better with a new cool step-dad who isn't a buttface.

 

Who cares if he gallivants around town with some bar floozy?! You're the caring one so you're the one who is going to create solid stability for your daughter and yourself because you care about her and you care about you and dogs too! If you care that much, that's fantastic. You're going to be okay. He's not. But that's his doing!

 

You care so much you said you thought you could heal the lonely and angry man he was. That ain't your job, honey! He's a grown adult, it's his job. My point is don't waste your precious capability of caring on this asshat. Use it to your advantage for you, your daughter and some dogs down on their luck. The right guy will come along but you have to rid yourself of this monster first. Get as much distance as you can.

 

I had an ex who was abusive. He pulled all the same tired old tactics this guy has. It's apparently in the "how to abuse and degrade the one you want" handbook. But (this is so funny to me now), after I broke it off with him, he SCREAMED at me that he never loved me and couldn't wait to dump me from day one. The reality is? When I dumped him, I swear to you I was pushing and kicking so hard to get him out the door he left clawmarks in the doorframe!! They love to flip reality on you to try to hurt you.

 

I wish you the best but please believe me when I say your daughter will admire you in the future, not feel all broken from a broken home. She's going to know you adopted her because you wanted her (that's SUCH a big deal) and you're smart and caring, loving.

 

It's going to be okay. You're going to get this all figured out. You will!

[tippydog90]

Lucky Lady thank you so much for your kind words, they made me cry. You are so right. I know I am better off, I know my love is best focused on my daughter, dogs, and those that truly love me. When I think of how draining this relationship was and how it felt like he sucked the life out of me, it makes me sick. I spent so much time worrying about his happiness and what I could do to "make him happy" that I forgot about my own. Things are so much better now, I don't have to worry about what he is thinking, feeling, or if he is happy or not - it is just me and my precious little girl. I find I am so much more relaxed, have more time to spend with her, and feel a greater sense of peace. Not lying, there is still an enormous amount of pain and anger there. I feel stupid, naive and used. But I guess in time I will cope with that as well.

 

And thank you for the kind words about my daughter, I cannot tell you how much guilt I feel over this and what it means for her life, particularly because she is adopted. But hearing what you had to go through during your childhood and how much you had wished for a family really affected me. I am sorry you went through that, it must have been so incredibly painful. Thank you for sharing that with me, it helped so much. You are right, I will shower her with love and she will understand someday. It is just painful now when she asks "where is daddy". She really, really adores him.

 

And what is also painful is how he still fails to put her first. And I don't know what to do about it. Example, he works out of town for 8 days at a time. He is leaving tomorrow. He called this morning and asked if he could pick her up this afternoon. I said, you know she naps in the afternoon, why don't you take her now. Well he was too busy packing and who knows what else. All things he could have done this afternoon and spent the morning with his daughter. So he never even bothered to come by and see her told me in a text he "didn't want to be around me". Like I am the bad one here. It infuriates me and I don't know how to deal with it. So I wrote him an email and told him he either start putting his daughter first, or he bows out of our lives. I told him I will not allow him to hurt her, period. I told him I was sorry if he wasn't mature enough to own up to the consequences of his actions and if seeing hurt and anger in my eyes was "too much" for him, but told him he needed to accept responsibility for what he did to me, and our family.

 

I do have to tread carefully with him right now, our divorce is not final, we have reached agreement on some things that I do not want him backing out of due to vindictiveness. He also has this incessant need to feel like I am falling apart without him and can't live without him in my life - it is his ego. So now that I have turned the tables and told him in no uncertain terms I did not want him back in my life, I can see how it is making him angry. I think he thought I just couldn't live without him and it angers him that he sees my strength. I also feel like I have to play it carefully there too until the divorce is final because of the fact that he may decide to be vindictive if he feels like my world is no longer falling apart. Advice on that front would be much appreciated. All I know is he is one messed up man.

[Zahara]

I do have to tread carefully with him right now, our divorce is not final, we have reached agreement on some things that I do not want him backing out of due to vindictiveness. He also has this incessant need to feel like I am falling apart without him and can't live without him in my life - it is his ego. So now that I have turned the tables and told him in no uncertain terms I did not want him back in my life, I can see how it is making him angry. I think he thought I just couldn't live without him and it angers him that he sees my strength. I also feel like I have to play it carefully there too until the divorce is final because of the fact that he may decide to be vindictive if he feels like my world is no longer falling apart. Advice on that front would be much appreciated. All I know is he is one messed up man.

 

It is his ego but more so the lack of control over you. He's probably going to go from one extreme to another to try and get you where he needs you to be. Try to keep as little contact with him as possible. Have you retained an attorney re: divorce & custody? These types won't just go away and accept your decision. If he can't be in control, then he's going to make your life difficult. Hopefully he abides but seeing how he treated you in the relationship, I have a feeling he won't go away that easily.

[tippydog90]

Zahara I do have an attorney. We have agreed (at least I think) on a settlement. I will have physical custody and he will have visitation. He travels for work so I am not concerned about him trying to get joint physical custody. He is already only seeing her when it is "convenient" for him.

 

 

As far as him having me where he wants me, I am trying to figure out just exactly "what" and "where" that is.... In what aspect do people think he is trying to control me now because I am trying to figure that out. I know he doesn't want to be married any longer (at least that is what he says), but he also just has to believe that I "want to spend time with him" and I am falling apart without him. And I can tell that it disturbs him when I tell him I am happy to be moving on with my life. So what exactly is his issue? He doesn't want me but then doesn't want me moving on either? He needs to feel like I "need" him in my life? And how do I turn that around and actually get him to understand I don't need or want him in my life anymore. Or is it even worth it. Just let him believe what he wants??

[Zahara]

Zahara I do have an attorney. We have agreed (at least I think) on a settlement. I will have physical custody and he will have visitation. He travels for work so I am not concerned about him trying to get joint physical custody. He is already only seeing her when it is "convenient" for him.

 

 

As far as him having me where he wants me, I am trying to figure out just exactly "what" and "where" that is.... In what aspect do people think he is trying to control me now because I am trying to figure that out. I know he doesn't want to be married any longer (at least that is what he says), but he also just has to believe that I "want to spend time with him" and I am falling apart without him. And I can tell that it disturbs him when I tell him I am happy to be moving on with my life. So what exactly is his issue? He doesn't want me but then doesn't want me moving on either? He needs to feel like I "need" him in my life? And how do I turn that around and actually get him to understand I don't need or want him in my life anymore. Or is it even worth it. Just let him believe what he wants??

 

If you've read much about men that have narcissistic traits, yes, they don't want you but they don't want you to move on either. Part of that stems from wanting to be in control even when the relationship has ended and the need to have you at their disposal when and should they need you. Knowing that you're dependent and attached to them feeds the ego and grandiose perceptions of themselves.

 

You don't get him to understand. He won't understand nor will he comply because he's not about to appease your feelings. His feelings are of his priority. So, what you want and desire is not his problem. Negative attention is still attention and if you keep feeding him with it, he's going to keep at this.

 

Moving forward, you have your attorney deal with his attorney. Enforce that communication is strictly about your child and nothing else. Anything about the relationship you cut short and disengage.

[tippydog90]

Thanks Zahara, I have read a lot about narcissistic men but what you said did a great job of summarizing so much of what I have read. And it makes perfect sense because this is exactly how he acts. In fact, he moved out about 6 months ago for about 3 weeks, then decided to move back in and try again - but after he did he said he moved back in because I "begged him to come home" and nothing could have been farther from the truth. The only thing I did was tell him at that time that his little girl was struggling with his absence, yet he turned it around and made it sound like I was falling apart without him and begged him to return. It is just crazy. So if anyone has any pointers on good books I can read to help me deal with him from this point forward and the future, please let me know. Because honestly, it is draining dealing with him in any capacity and I have a feeling it is always going to be something with him. Right now he is haggling over what amounts to about $50 a month in additional child support when this man has 150K in the bank. It is absolutely insane. Ten times the assets I have and he wants to haggle down $50 in support for his daughter. I just don't know how to deal with this absolute obsession with every penny, obsession with himself and the whole sociopathic package. It just makes me sick. I know to have little contact with him as possible, but I still have to strategize for the future and understand how best to deal with different scenarios or he will make me lose my flippin' mind.

[Zahara]

I think you should seek a good counselor to help you with this, Tippy. At least until you are emotionally stable and free from the attachment, because by then you'll be able to put up with his nonsense without having it derail or affect you. I don't think books are going to be able to help you deal with him, seeing that you will have to have contact with this man because of your child. When I was struggling with understanding the behaviors, I read these two books just from browsing the internet. Disarming the Narcissist and Surviving the Self-Involved. Go online and do some research. You may be able to hit the local library and find these books or books of similar nature -- and even books on how to rebuild your self-esteem again, which should be what you need to focus on.

 

Speaking of child, I was reading an article in a magazine while at my doctor's appointment yesterday. There was an article about narcissistic men and their traits. There was a question from a reader about how her husband uses the kids as a weapon against her. There was a comment about how these types will even push to procreate because having a child is another way to strengthen their stronghold over you. Hence, the child becomes what permanently ties the victim to the abuser. It isn't so much about having children but the purpose that child serves to them. I thought and wondered about you when you mentioned why the push to adopt a child when he said he never really loved you.

 

And yes, he is going to haggle support because the nature of narcissism is entitlement and selfishness. He's not going to part with what's his for anybody, not even his child because again, there really is no deep connection.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Zahara

[tippydog90]

Funny you should mention counseling Zahara, my appointment is in 30 minutes. She has been really helpful but today I am going to speak to her about how best to interact with him now and in the future. My goal is as minimally and as businesslike as possible.

 

 

I have been reading a some books and they have been very helpful and have given me a lot of insight. It is always so helpful though to hear directly from those that have been there. And just the support on this forum has really given me some much needed strength in the last few days. I see things much more clearly now.

 

 

It breaks my heart to think of the future effects to my daughter from him, and I will do absolutely everything in my power to protect her if his actions start negatively affecting her. He knows that too. I have made that abundantly clear. He told me a few months ago when I asked him why in the world he would allow us to go through with this adoption if he knew he didn't love me, and he told me "he felt sorry for me". I also need to learn to get past the guilt I feel over all that. Back when we adopted her, we had our ups and downs, but in no way did I understand him like I do now at that point in time. It is weird how his behavior has slowly evolved and creeped up each passing year and become more cruel. I was in the denial and "he is just naïve" phase a long time....

[Zahara]

Funny you should mention counseling Zahara, my appointment is in 30 minutes. She has been really helpful but today I am going to speak to her about how best to interact with him now and in the future. My goal is as minimally and as businesslike as possible.

 

Yes, utilize her as much as you can in terms of focusing on you as well as coping with this man. It's all in the approach with these types -- managing their ego and getting what you need in the process.

 

It breaks my heart to think of the future effects to my daughter from him, and I will do absolutely everything in my power to protect her if his actions start negatively affecting her. He knows that too. I have made that abundantly clear. He told me a few months ago when I asked him why in the world he would allow us to go through with this adoption if he knew he didn't love me, and he told me "he felt sorry for me". I also need to learn to get past the guilt I feel over all that. Back when we adopted her, we had our ups and downs, but in no way did I understand him like I do now at that point in time. It is weird how his behavior has slowly evolved and creeped up each passing year and become more cruel. I was in the denial and "he is just naïve" phase a long time....

 

I'm sorry, Tippy. I know how much this hurts you as you feel so vulnerable having your child be in the presence of someone that emits such negativity and toxicity. The biggest fear is having his unhealthiness rub off on her but you will be there to shield and protect her. Show her the way to love and care. Show her that it's okay to be vulnerable, that it's okay to feel, to effectively communicate, etc. All the necessary tools she needs to grow up emotionally healthy and balanced.

 

Yes, I believe my therapist used to say, "When the mask falls." They can present a certain image of themselves for only so long. It takes effort, energy and work to keep up with that image and at some point, they can't do it anymore and the mask falls and who they really are will emerge. Then you're left standing there going, "Where is the guy I fell in love with?"

 

I remember once asking my ex, "Where was that guy I first met?" He said, "Forget him, he never existed." Uh? What? I never understood it at the time but after learning that he had been to therapy for narcissism, I realized why he said that.

[tippydog90]

That is exactly how I feel - as though the mask has fallen and I am left wondering where the man I married is. There are times when he can be very sweet and has been in the past, and I think of those times and it is like he has two sides to him. I guess he does. But the sweet side became a much, much rarer aspect of his personality and in the end I really never saw it anymore. I also have to be honest and say that when I think of him sometimes I cry because I honestly feel sorry for him. It must be so painful going through life feeling nothing. Or maybe it doesn't even matter to him. When I met him he seemed so lonely, empty and seemed to really want someone to share his life with. And then it slowly started to change. Emotionally he is extremely immature and almost seems like a little boy in some ways. I think that is why at times I really hurt for him. I keep wondering if deep in his heart he doesn't really want to love and feel, and just can't. I just can't think about him anymore and wonder why. It just is what it is. I just had hoped so much that someday the sweet man I married would magically reappear, but I know that will never happen.

[Zahara]

That is exactly how I feel - as though the mask has fallen and I am left wondering where the man I married is. There are times when he can be very sweet and has been in the past, and I think of those times and it is like he has two sides to him. I guess he does. But the sweet side became a much, much rarer aspect of his personality and in the end I really never saw it anymore. I also have to be honest and say that when I think of him sometimes I cry because I honestly feel sorry for him. It must be so painful going through life feeling nothing. Or maybe it doesn't even matter to him. When I met him he seemed so lonely, empty and seemed to really want someone to share his life with. And then it slowly started to change. Emotionally he is extremely immature and almost seems like a little boy in some ways. I think that is why at times I really hurt for him. I keep wondering if deep in his heart he doesn't really want to love and feel, and just can't. I just can't think about him anymore and wonder why. It just is what it is. I just had hoped so much that someday the sweet man I married would magically reappear, but I know that will never happen.

 

I know how you feel. I too was in that same position whereby I was feeling very sorry. Who out there doesn't want to be loved or to love -- who out there wants to go about living a lonely and empty life? And his maturity too was very stunted. Sometimes he would act out or converse like an adolescent.

 

I believe my therapist mentioned arrested emotional and mental development -- at a point in my ex's life as a child, due to trauma or something that was probably damaging to his psyche, his emotional and mental development was trapped sometime during his youth and he never fully matured. I think if you've read enough about it, it does make sense.

 

I believe they're functional and happy with the way they live their lives. If they weren't, they'd try to make change. It's probably more comfortable for them to just stay the way they are because change brings discomfort, work, effort, energy -- but in order to want change, self-reflection and awareness has to happen. And even when that happens it probably comes as fast as it goes. I remember my ex wanting therapy today and saying nothing's wrong the next and that I was the one that needed help. Comes and goes. And I remember him saying that while he wishes he could be like others and lead a "different" life, he's content with the way he is because in his mind, it hasn't failed him. He's always come out on top, so he says although we see it from a very dark and sad perspective.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Zahara

[tippydog90]

My husband used to always tell me there was something wrong with me too. He was incredibly resistant to going to counseling with me, though went a few times a while back. He refused to go with me this last time, though he did go to the VA and got tested for PTSD (I long thought that might be a factor), but apparently PTSD isn't an issue with him. I thought that might be where the anger was coming from. And when I say anger I don't mean yelling and screaming at me anger, he almost never did that. It was more just being angry at the world, angry at me for all his problems, etc. When I first met him, he seemed really discontent with his life, was lonely and wanted someone to share it with. Well, he is now still discontent but has tossed me away because evidently I wasn't "perfect" enough to share his life!! I think he is also just happy with himself the way he is, he sees absolutely nothing wrong with his complete lack of emotion and ability to connect - along with having no compassion or empathy. I just need to stop wasting energy on thinking of all he did and why he is the way he is and now just focus on how to heal, how to get my daughter through this and how to ensure that his sickness has as little impact on her life as possible. I wish I could forgive him now, but I am just not there yet. My heart does hurt for him though as I still occasionally see a glimmer of a lonely man that really wants someone to love, he just isn't capable.

[todreaminblue]

My husband used to always tell me there was something wrong with me too. He was incredibly resistant to going to counseling with me, though went a few times a while back. He refused to go with me this last time, though he did go to the VA and got tested for PTSD (I long thought that might be a factor), but apparently PTSD isn't an issue with him. I thought that might be where the anger was coming from. And when I say anger I don't mean yelling and screaming at me anger, he almost never did that. It was more just being angry at the world, angry at me for all his problems, etc. When I first met him, he seemed really discontent with his life, was lonely and wanted someone to share it with. Well, he is now still discontent but has tossed me away because evidently I wasn't "perfect" enough to share his life!! I think he is also just happy with himself the way he is, he sees absolutely nothing wrong with his complete lack of emotion and ability to connect - along with having no compassion or empathy. I just need to stop wasting energy on thinking of all he did and why he is the way he is and now just focus on how to heal, how to get my daughter through this and how to ensure that his sickness has as little impact on her life as possible. I wish I could forgive him now, but I am just not there yet. My heart does hurt for him though as I still occasionally see a glimmer of a lonely man that really wants someone to love, he just isn't capable.

 

i feel for you tippy, and loneliness that he had or does have, gives him no right of way ......to treat you with total lack of respect or forethought...i hope that you do pursue counselling and talk therapy.......and i wish nothing but the best for you and your daughter.....stay strong.......deb

[tippydog90]

Well I seemed to really be doing so much better the last three days, feeling stronger and more detached from him. Until later today and then I kind of fell apart again and started sobbing and I am not even exactly sure why. I guess I was remembering how sweet he was at times, bringing our daughter home from the hospital, and how much I loved him. I guess it is easier on me to remember the good things than to think of all the pain he caused me and the state of constant turmoil I felt like I lived in. I just wish he would have gotten help, wish he would have considered my pain, and I wish he would have really known how to love. Those are a lot of wishes.... I find it so hard to let go of the dream I had of a happy family. I tried so hard, nothing I did was ever good enough.

[Zahara]

Well I seemed to really be doing so much better the last three days, feeling stronger and more detached from him. Until later today and then I kind of fell apart again and started sobbing and I am not even exactly sure why. I guess I was remembering how sweet he was at times, bringing our daughter home from the hospital, and how much I loved him. I guess it is easier on me to remember the good things than to think of all the pain he caused me and the state of constant turmoil I felt like I lived in. I just wish he would have gotten help, wish he would have considered my pain, and I wish he would have really known how to love. Those are a lot of wishes.... I find it so hard to let go of the dream I had of a happy family. I tried so hard, nothing I did was ever good enough.

 

You're going to experience a rollercoaster of emotions. Up and down. And that is normal as you're grieving the loss of this relationship. It's going to be hard to let go of the dreams and plans you had but in time as you slowly break the emotional attachment, you will realize that there are going to be other dreams and plans to fulfill your life.You just have to let these feelings come, feel them, deal with them and it will pass.

 

And it is normal to think of the good times. We all do that when we're missing that person and the relationship. Everything you feel is normal so allow the process to take you where it needs to. It's not indicative of a setback.