Would you take your child to a witch doctor to cure cancer?

[Darren2013]

I suppose this question mostly is directed to a specific group of Christians who believe witch magic and sorcery is of the devil and who think Halloween is of the devil and stuff. Not all Christians hold the same beliefs about these things and some are more liberalized in their beliefs that there's no harm in taking part in that stuff.

 

But I guess I would ask conservative Christians who many be reading this. What if your child had an incurable cancer and the only proven cure for it comes from someone who claims to be a witch doctor? Would you take your child to that doctor? What do you really have to lose at that point by trying and seeing what happens?

 

Or better yet what if the only cure for cancer came from a medical clinic that calls itself "Sons of Satan"? Would you take your child there?

[SoleMate]

Your hypothetical is so far out, I doubt you will get many answers. How about you make the statement, or ask the question, that's REALLY on your mind?

[Gloria25]

Now, this is just my "opinion" - which really isn't based on any actual facts...

 

I believe there was a time you could go to your local "witch doctor"...maybe centuries ago....

 

But, modern medicine and the urbanization of our society has taken us away from the land and people who were skilled in treating ailments by "unconventional" methods...They knew which plants, barks, teas, etc could heal you. Some might have called them "witches" or whatever...

 

I was talking to a sibling who was born and raised overseas - I guess what some people would call "third world". Well, that country has a lot of mineral resources and for years has and continues to be exploited by industries - which released a lot of toxins into the environment. A lot of people ended up being bought out or forced off of their land...So, now they frequent "supermarkets" with veggies and livestock that are full of pesticides, antibiotics, exposed to toxins and improperly raised....And, she was telling me how when she was growing up it was "rare" to hear of someone having heart disease, but now people just aren't eating like they used to and are dependent on "modern" medicine.

 

I mean, look at every pill commercial out there - yes, the pill is convenient and treats X, Y, or Z...but look at the list of side effects...Makes you wonder "what's the point of seeking treatment?"

 

IMO, the medical industry has turned into another way to make people a slave to our insurance companies, and/or doctors who just want to line their pockets. And, while IMO, people think the passing of Obamacare was 'all about the people', the only ones that are gonna benefit are the insurance companies cuz NOW everyone MUST pay into health insurance (well, unless you fall under an exemption)...And, for years I would opt out of paying into health insurance cuz I didn't have any health issues, but now that's no longer a choice for me.

 

Every year when the 'Stand up for Cancer' stuff rolls around, I roll my eyes. So much emphasis is place on "the cure"...cuz, duh, the more people needing treatment, the richer the doctors and insurance companies get....So no, no one will be bold enough to change the focus from "the cure" to "the prevention" - which would probably involve pointing fingers on how we live in a toxic society and eat crap...and, a lot of industries aren't gonna stand for that.

 

So, while "modern medicine" might put you in the poor-house and/or have endless side-effects, it's all we got now. I think if you have a certain illness and try to do something unconventional - you might hurt yourself and/or die - cuz, not only do some of those unconventional people are hacks who take advantage of people's misery, modern medicine at least has proven results.

 

I think Steve Jobs tried unconventional stuff (he was quite eccentric I guess) before your average cancer treatments and I think he even stated that he believed that's why the cancer advanced - cuz he didn't get proper treatment from the get-go and I believe him.

 

Sorry for the rant...

Edited October 4, 2014 by Gloria25

[Darren2013]

Your hypothetical is so far out, I doubt you will get many answers. How about you make the statement, or ask the question, that's REALLY on your mind?

 

There's no such thing as a stupid question but thank you for not answering. Of course my question is a hypothetical one duh! Aint that kind of a no brainer. I was hoping to generate discussion and get certain Christians to really think for once.

 

I could care less how you think I should have asked the question. This is the right section of the forum to talk about this stuff.

[TheFinalWord]

I was hoping to generate discussion and get certain Christians to really think for once.

 

Your line of reasoning is thousands of years old.

 

Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. “Teacher Tell us, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

[Priv]

I was hoping to generate discussion and get certain Christians to really think for once.

 

In my opinion, people of (any) faith tend to think a lot more about there belief system than those not of faith.

[Darren2013]

Your line of reasoning is thousands of years old.

 

Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. “Teacher Tell us, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. I am not a religious leader and you are not Jesus Christ. This passage has nothing to do with the question I asked. It is just a way for you to be a coward by hiding behind Bible verses. If you think I am that stupid to not see through what you are doing then you have another thing coming. Hiding behind the Bible as a way to justify cowering in some corner is very typical of fundamentalist Christians. Religious people discourage the asking of questions and expect blind adherence to their belief system. Unquestioning obedience is very disgusting. Having your ideas and faith challenged is a very healthy thing instead of pulling Bible verses out of context to justify not answering questions.

 

If you would rather not answer the question then fine but you don't need to hide behind the Bible as some "talk to the hand" kind of thing.

 

And just to let you know upfront if you plan to post more Bible verses in an attempt to justify your point to not answer a question I am not going to bother reading them. I figure I would let you know so you don't waste your time copying and pasting thousands of verses. I will not read a single one of them. I do not believe the Bible is final authority like you have been brainwashed to believe. So your attempts to prove your point with the Bible are futile.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Darren2013

[Allumere]

oh this is gonna get good ...(pan camera to person settling into reclining chair with a beer and bowl of popcorn).

[Darren2013]

Very typical of fundamentalists to waste such precious time copying and pasting over 5 thousand Bible verses thinking that it makes their point of view that much more powerful. The Bible was not intended to be used as a weapon. But they copy and paste thousands of verses even when talking to critical thinking atheists who have good questions about the faith and why the God of the Old Testament was such a jerk and other good questions.

[OpenBook]

The Bible was not intended to be used as a weapon.

 

"I came not to bring peace, but a sword." -Jesus (Matthew 10:34)

 

Game on!

 

And with you being an atheist, by what authority do you determine how "the Bible was intended to be used" anyway?

 

This is about as nonsensical as your original question. To which I have the same answer. A witch doctor has no authority or credibility to cure anything - never has and never will. So no I would not take my child to a witch doctor to be cured of anything.

[Tayla]

You are comparing apples to oranges. I am not a religious leader and you are not Jesus Christ. This passage has nothing to do with the question I asked. It is just a way for you to be a coward by hiding behind Bible verses. If you think I am that stupid to not see through what you are doing then you have another thing coming. Hiding behind the Bible as a way to justify cowering in some corner is very typical of fundamentalist Christians. Religious people discourage the asking of questions and expect blind adherence to their belief system. Unquestioning obedience is very disgusting. Having your ideas and faith challenged is a very healthy thing instead of pulling Bible verses out of context to justify not answering questions.

 

If you would rather not answer the question then fine but you don't need to hide behind the Bible as some "talk to the hand" kind of thing.

 

And just to let you know upfront if you plan to post more Bible verses in an attempt to justify your point to not answer a question I am not going to bother reading them. I figure I would let you know so you don't waste your time copying and pasting thousands of verses. I will not read a single one of them. I do not believe the Bible is final authority like you have been brainwashed to believe. So your attempts to prove your point with the Bible are futile.

 

Actually The message you are rebuking made perfect sense to those who grasp it. Sorry that you didn't. But it fully related and answered your inquiry precisely. Keep an open mind and maybe it will come to you.

 

Here is my civil answer to this entire matter- If someone has the skills to heal, then take the person.

[Darren2013]

"I came not to bring peace, but a sword." -Jesus (Matthew 10:34)

 

Game on!

 

And with you being an atheist, by what authority do you determine how "the Bible was intended to be used" anyway?

 

This is about as nonsensical as your original question. To which I have the same answer. A witch doctor has no authority or credibility to cure anything - never has and never will. So no I would not take my child to a witch doctor to be cured of anything.

 

 

Then you would be willing to risk going to jail for child neglect. Freedom of religion does not apply in matters of life and death. How do you know that a witch doctor has no authority to cure anything? You are just coming at it with a bias and that's what you want to believe because you think they are of the devil. Maybe it is you that needs to keep an open mind.

 

Next time you go to church do me a favor and tell your pastor to put the words outside of his church "Do not ask questions. Only those with unquestioning obedience are welcome here. We are uncomfortable with the tough questions that challenge our faith. Submit or die".

 

Those words should be chiseled in front of your church because then at least people know where that church stands and I will know to avoid it.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Darren2013

[Allumere]

I detect a wee bit of bitterness....why so angry Darren? Why do you care? It's very simple...people make choices. Some choose to believe in God, some don't? Some subscribe to the follow the Bible, some don't? Some Christians would go to a witch doctor, some wouldn't.

[Darren2013]

The original question still has not been answered. I will ask it again since I have nothing to lose. If you are a Christian would you take your child to a witch doctor if they had the only proven cure for cancer? Why or why not? Explain! How about a medical team that calls itself sons of satan? Why or why not? Explain!

 

If you are not willing to take your child because it goes against your religious beliefs and you think witch doctors or sons of satan group are from the devil then are you willing to go to jail on charges of child neglect knowing that a freedom of religion defense would not protect you in a court of law in matters of life and death?

 

The poster who said well people make choices. They have missed the point. Certain choices have consequences to others especially when it is a matter of life or death.

[Gloria25]

I think I answered the question - even though I had to get onto a rant to get there...

 

My opinion is that you're taking a risk by going to "unconventional" medical resources...cuz, even though modern medicine has it's drawbacks, it does have proven results and is pretty much what we've been forced to adopt.

 

I also believe that some of these "witch doctors" do not actually have any supernatural powers - they just probably learned some hand-down methods used by people back in the day and/or from third-world situations on what plants and treatments may help this or that.

 

Now, in regards to spirituality? Some religions believe witchcraft exists (and only can function if God lets it happen), but caution that if you resort to them God will punish you because you go to "man" and/or some other entity rather than God to resolve your issues.

[Allumere]

Your scenario fails in regards to "if this, then that".

 

Not taking the child to a witch doctor with a reported cure would not result in charges of criminal abuse.

 

a) There is no assumed or predisposed scenario of neglect or abuse. An ultraconservative Christian could choice NOT to go to the witch doctor but could continue to utilized standard medical care.

 

b) A witch doctor would not be recognized by law or the medical community as the means to meet the standard levels of care. In fact the opposite could occur, as the witch doctor may be viewed by the law as a faith healer and therefore could then view the parents as not providing the necessary level of medical care hence they could then be breaking the law.

 

Let me ask (and this is simply a question to see your viewpoint)...would you take your dying child to a priest with documented proof he could perform miracles but only on those who profess belief in God?

[The Like Fairy]

Or better yet what if the only cure for cancer came from a medical clinic that calls itself "Sons of Satan"? Would you take your child there?

 

Nope I wouldn't go near anything called "Sons of Satan" for any amount of money nor a "witch doctor" but I would be willing to try a Homeopath and spiritual types, along with natural medicines, herbs, very exact eating regiments with specific foods and supplements, and acupuncture, massage, Reiki, and even Priests and Spiritualists.

[famethrowa]

I suppose this question mostly is directed to a specific group of Christians who believe witch magic and sorcery is of the devil and who think Halloween is of the devil and stuff. Not all Christians hold the same beliefs about these things and some are more liberalized in their beliefs that there's no harm in taking part in that stuff.

 

But I guess I would ask conservative Christians who many be reading this. What if your child had an incurable cancer and the only proven cure for it comes from someone who claims to be a witch doctor? Would you take your child to that doctor? What do you really have to lose at that point by trying and seeing what happens?

 

Or better yet what if the only cure for cancer came from a medical clinic that calls itself "Sons of Satan"? Would you take your child there?

 

Unfortunately Darren these kind of analogies seem to go right over religious people's heads. They just don't get the correlation between obviously false supernatural beliefs like witchcraft, and their own equally false supernatural beliefs.

[d0nnivain]

But I guess I would ask conservative Christians who many be reading this. What if your child had an incurable cancer and the only proven cure for it comes from someone who claims to be a witch doctor? Would you take your child to that doctor? What do you really have to lose at that point by trying and seeing what happens?

 

If the cure was scientifically proven, I would do whatever it took to get someone I loved well.

 

But since as of now we know that witch doctors cannot cure cancer no I wouldn't take my loved one to such a practitioner nor would I get them shark cartilage or drag them up a mountain to see a shaman or have a priest perform an exorcism.

 

However, I was once working in a litigation support capacity when the injured party's lawyer submitted a bill from a witch doctor (said witch doctor right on the bill) for $15. If we paid the bill, the person was willing to testify that they were cured & just fine & they would accept a settlement. If we didn't pay the bill a trial would have started & who knows how much that could have cost so I got the insurance company to pay the bill (although to this day I'm not sure how they coded it in the computer)

[mightycpa]

I suppose this question mostly is directed to a specific group of Christians who believe witch magic and sorcery is of the devil and who think Halloween is of the devil and stuff. Not all Christians hold the same beliefs about these things and some are more liberalized in their beliefs that there's no harm in taking part in that stuff.

 

But I guess I would ask conservative Christians who many be reading this. What if your child had an incurable cancer and the only proven cure for it comes from someone who claims to be a witch doctor? Would you take your child to that doctor? What do you really have to lose at that point by trying and seeing what happens?

 

Or better yet what if the only cure for cancer came from a medical clinic that calls itself "Sons of Satan"? Would you take your child there?

 

Oh! The inanity! I'll bite.

 

What would the nature of the cure be?

 

Incantations and chants that destroy the cancer cells? Sure.

A contract to sell the child's soul? Depends on who the buyer is.

A medical injection. Yes.

A medicinal herb or potion. Yes.

 

Now let me pose a thornier question about the nature of good and evil.

 

Would it be OK for a Christian to accept a no-strings act of kindness directly from Satan?

 

I think so.

[cerridwen]

 

Would it be OK for a Christian to accept a no-strings act of kindness directly from Satan?

 

I think so.

 

Hey, that actually happened to me the other day.

I'm a Christian and Starbucks's gave me a free large drink because of the long wait.

 

Winning.

[Thegreatestthing]

Not a Christian but yes I would take my child to a witch doctor/wise woman,wise man as they use to be called - they existed in every culture for thousands of years they treat the soul and the body.

 

When an illness is part of your spiritual journey, no medical intervention can heal you until your spirit has begun to make the changes that the illness was designed to inspire.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Thegreatestthing