He filed, asked for sole custody

[jakrbbt]

The court has to look at statutory factors. There are five. None of them (and there is precedent on this) allows the court to decide against a situation that would involve day care. And courts are reluctant to subsidize a parent's refusal to work

 

But even so, I have my child plus a nanny (and her child, so he can socialize) with me at home while I work. I don't have him during the three days I go into the office. And if ever something comes up adn I need to watch him, my office is extremely understanding, and I just take an extra work-from-home day or vacation/sick day.

 

Just because I worked does not mean my husband "stayed home and raised the child." He wasn't home much, and I was the one with our child 85% of the time-- until the last few months, when I was 75% of the time. I was the one who did all the baths, bedtimes, medical care scheduling and taking to appointments, overnight care, buying and assembling carseats, baby's administrative stuff like soc sec card and insurance et c et c. And I did all the housework except H did yardwork and swept the kitchen and, four times, he put away clean dishes from the dishwasher.

 

But all that stuff (who was primary caregiver) is not the only or even the biggest factor that courts here look at.

 

Once again, I am NOT out to "punish" my husband or "hold" something "against" him. This is not about him and it is not about me. I am out to secure a situation that is best for our little one. I wish that judges could award joint custody in contested cases here. (They can in some states.) Then both parties would calm down and realize that going for sole custody would be a waste of time.

 

I don't want to go too far into my attorney's and my strategy here, but I have a very high likelihood of having sole custody if we go to trial. Again, it's based on the statutory factors, what judges in this jurisdiction do, and our evidence and partly on my credibility here (which is very good). My lawyer has been doing this in this jurisdiction for over 30 years and has a lot of credibility and respect with the courts. He knows them, he assesses cases quite well and predicts very accurately. One reason I like him is that he's not afraid to tell clients when their cases are weak. I wish my husband's lawyer were the same!

 

I still fear trial, even though I am very unlikely to come out of it with some bad situation where H has (and abuses) sole custody. I don't want the mess. I don't want the pain and stress, or the expense, which could go into our son's college fund instead.

 

My lawyer drafted a settlement letter to H's lawyer. We are not going to play tennis with them and do some stupid haggling game wherein I suggest something inappropriate for the child and wait for H's counter-offer. I won't waste my money and everyone's time on that. Instead, we made a reasonable settlement offer with a little wiggle room on things that could go either way (little assets and tax issues), and it's revoked after a week.

 

After that, we prepare for trial. I guess mediation sessions around here are not really done, it's more commonly done between attorneys or free mediation. But I do think you're right BetrayedH, that a mediation session would be best. I think that's what trials often turn into around here.

 

And Ken-- your comment that you thought about sending your wife a picture but decided it felt too manipulative, that really helped put my husband's behavior into perspective for me.

 

One of my jobs as a mom now, is figuring out how not to be manipulated by people in my life. It's become my job, as my son's mother. I have to do it.

 

H asked for two more favors and I ignored him. The favors were small, but I had to focus on my work deadline. One favor was for his sister and I'm not even positive it wasn't a trap. Either way, I asked myself whether I could really put my responsibilities to my work, son, and sanity first, and still do those small favors. The answer came out no each time. So I declined.

[jakrbbt]

Now Jkrabbit says he is drinking again. Is there proof of this? (My point is that is all the ammo she really has, and it could look like a low blow, unless she has evidence of him sitting in a bar. And, if the guy did slip, well, his wife walked out on him, took an apartment and his boy away. Some might feel bad for the guy.).

 

 

 

Over and Out. Yas

 

Yes, I am not going to go into court and allege that he's drinking again-- I have no proof, and there haven't been any more signs after that one evening when I thought he smelled like alcohol.

 

I agree that it's great he's been keeping sober. The problem is, if you say you have no time to parent or even get a job because "maintaining your sobriety" takes up all of your time, then you probably aren't going to function well as a sole custodian or even half-time parent.

 

I want to remind people that "custody" is different from "parenting time." At least in my state. You can have 50/50 parenting time but where one parent has sole custody. Custody means you trump the other parent on contested large-picture issues like religion, school, and major medical decisions. Around here, courts almost always award 50/50 parenting time if even one of the parents wants it.

[jakrbbt]

That's right.

 

On the question of whether adversarial posturing is necessary or unavoidable, I don't think that it's necessary no matter what the law in a jurisdiction is. There is a lot of movement in the family courts and family law bar toward resolution through collaborative practice (formal or informal) and mediation. The movie "Divorce Corp" really shreds the family law industry and from what I've seen it's absolutely accurate. There is a lot of money to be made from conflict and fear, and the big money is made in the period prior to hearings. Trial prep is lucrative.

 

But the real scope of possible outcomes and the likely results are clear much earlier in the process, so lawyers ought to be encouraging settlement early. That's the philosophy of collaborative process. The litigation-bound lawyers hide behind this “we have no choice” BS. Pfft. Yeah, right. Ask Stu Webb and Pauline Tesler about that.

 

OP's husband's alcohol problem ought to be addressed in settlement negotiations along with everything else. Evidently, OP's husband has relapsed after a long period of abstinence. This is going to be a family problem forever, so how to best resolve it? Breathalyzers? Treatment? AA? Brainstorm this. Shift to solutions and put down the weapons. What approach is most likely to have positive long term results? Ultimately, this and other issues will have to be resolved, long after the attorneys fees have been paid. These parents (and most parents) are looking at a long period of co-parenting ahead. But so many lawyers don't and won't cut to the chase- the REAL goal of creating a sustainable workable co-parenting framework.

 

Anyway, just my opinion about the Family Courts and how to short-circuit the battle- and save money and build a healthier co-parenting foundation.

 

Very true. My husband's lawyer is infamous for taking her client's money and then just settling during trial, or so I have heard. I talked to a former client of hers (by chance, it was a coincidence that this person had the same lawyer). That poor client, the mother, was going to trial against a partner who had been harassing her and against whom she'd had a restraining order. He did not care for the child, a breastfed infant at the time, with any frequency. Yet this lawyer let the woman to all the way to trial without preparing at all, and then, during the trial, she told her client that she "had" to settle-- but did not explain why. Seeing that they were unprepared, and being unadvised and confused, the woman settled for joint custody.

 

Even with his lawyer's modest rate, my husband has likely spent at least $600 in legal fees just to get $400 TOTAL (not per month) of temporary spousal support from me, since our trial date is so soon. I was already giving him more than that. He has in essence paid his attorney to lose money.

 

And she continues to file for things that, even if they won, the winnings would be smaller than her fee for fighting for them. Like my tiny contribution to retirement during our 20 months of marriage.

 

That shows that either H is fighting just to fight, and damn the expense or the chances of winning-- or else, his lawyer is spending his money and her time in a wasteful manner. Or both.

[kenmore]

You and I need to do the same things: Stay focused on our work and stay on the ball regarding our cases. I don't know about you, but I have been fighting my "straying brain" for a long time, but looking at my performance, I have not done badly, so it shows that so much of that is self perception.

 

I know this has nothing to do with your posts, and part of the reason is that you basically said it; and I feel your responses are well thought out and concise, so no point in commenting.

 

So I felt I would just talk about what you haven't. Keep your mind in the game. You are coming down to D-day and I think you are doing fine. You have your bases covered and have done your homework. Basically, like me, you are functioning perfectly, even though you feel like you are not.

 

Knowing what we know Jac, and knowing how people react to difficult situations, consider this: He's in a world of hurt too. the more you gain strength, the more he loses. It's just reality. The side who feels so damned confident going in is the side who gets humiliated. It happens time and again.

 

I agree with Yas, don't get over-confident, but also don't lose perspective. Just wake up daily knowing you will function, you will have a great work day and when you have the time, you will kick some ass! It will fall into place because YOU will make it happen.

 

Ken

[jakrbbt]

Good point about sticking to work. Today was a good day for that, but I need encouragement.

 

H is asking for my retirement account information. Shouldn't I ask for his? Why does he want to keep all the assets he acquired during our marriage (a project car, a boat, whatever small retirement fund from part-time work), but he thinks I should give up half of mine? It's not that I want his stuff. It's that his position is so exploitive. He doesn't think I'm entitled to my own earnings.

 

But I guess that kind of thing is why I left him. And I bet the reason I'm so mad that he was exploitive is, I am letting him exploit me in so many other ways.

 

I won't pay for anything that isn't court-ordered, to start.

 

I set a small boundary or two. I was pretty sloppy about it, but small strides, right? First, H mentioned that he wanted to come visit and see our son. I asked him not to come over without calling me first, so I wouldn't be surprised by a visit. Well, he "called" me that evening and said: "I was wondering if I could come over now." "Sure."-- Then he said, "Well, actually, I'm already here." He was right outside.

 

I asked him why he didn't call before coming over like I'd asked. (I was kind of wimpy about it but saying anything at all is different from what I'd have done in the past.) He said that he had thought his phone was dead. So he just came over, and when he got here, he decided to try and call me and see whether it would die.

 

Now usually I pretend to accept his obviously ridiculously untrue excuses. But my brain told me, "Confront him on the stupid excuse, that's one of his things he does all the time. Show him you see it while it's happening." So I said, "That doesn't make sense, why wouldn't you have just tested the phone and called me before leaving, instead of after you actually got here?" He said he didn't know. Ideally I'd have confronted him on that too, but I'm new at this. I just looked at him and made a bemused motion as though I didn't really believe him but it wasn't worth arguing over any more.

 

I now realize I should have asked him not to come in, as he didn't call before coming over like I'd asked him to.

 

This morning was the second tiny boundary. H came over to pick up our son. I mentioned that a colleague had won a case, and was congratulating her. (He met her years ago when I was in law school with her.) He just made some derogatory comment about how he heard she's single now and he should "bend her over" because she is so short. (He's insulted her short legs before, god knows why he cares that some random classmate had short legs). I told asked him to please stop making derogatory comments about everyone I'm friends with or whom I compliment. I said it was just a downer and I didn't want to hear it. To my surprise, he immediately kind of recoiled and half-apologized. I would have gone on about how totally sexist and bitter and unimpressive he sounded, but I wanted to keep the interaction about my own desires and boundaries rather than any opinion of him.

 

And if he can't make nice conversation, why would I even keep talking to him at all about these little unnecessary friendly things?

 

I guess I'll build on those little things. Dipping the toe in, the water's fine so far!

 

But I dread the case. I now have no energy for emailing people who might testify. I can't do it. I have to do it but I just want the whole thing to go away.

 

BetrayedH, you are right, my H is in control. Is it your opinion that that's because I am letting him be? You mentioned that it was your own change in behavior that changed the dynamics so your wife wasn't in control.

 

And reading over this, I can see that I am carrying on way too much of a relationship with H. We're interacting more than when we were married! But I like when he visits on his parenting days, because then I get to see more of my son. And when H comes over, then our son gets to see both parents at the same time. He is still so tiny. He should be seeing each of us as frequently as we can swing it. Also, I always wanted our son to have family time during the marriage, and H always resisted it. I guess he knows that that is one thing I want. Maybe it's time for me to drop it. I gave that up when I left him, and if we can't do it healthily, why lie to myself about that? Our son will be fine with separate time, right? (He's not even two yet.)

 

What I really want, is for him to stop asking for sole custody. I could never have done that to him, or to anyone-- asked for sole custody, when I knew they'd be ok with joint, and then watch them squirm about it. I believe he's doing this to "win" and for control.

Edited January 8, 2015 by jakrbbt

[BlueIris]

Very true. My husband's lawyer is infamous for taking her client's money and then just settling during trial, or so I have heard. I talked to a former client of hers (by chance, it was a coincidence that this person had the same lawyer). That poor client, the mother, was going to trial against a partner who had been harassing her and against whom she'd had a restraining order. He did not care for the child, a breastfed infant at the time, with any frequency. Yet this lawyer let the woman to all the way to trial without preparing at all, and then, during the trial, she told her client that she "had" to settle-- but did not explain why. Seeing that they were unprepared, and being unadvised and confused, the woman settled for joint custody.

 

Even with his lawyer's modest rate, my husband has likely spent at least $600 in legal fees just to get $400 TOTAL (not per month) of temporary spousal support from me, since our trial date is so soon. I was already giving him more than that. He has in essence paid his attorney to lose money.

 

And she continues to file for things that, even if they won, the winnings would be smaller than her fee for fighting for them. Like my tiny contribution to retirement during our 20 months of marriage.

 

That shows that either H is fighting just to fight, and damn the expense or the chances of winning-- or else, his lawyer is spending his money and her time in a wasteful manner. Or both.

 

Sounds familiar. (Actually, I’m impressed at how low the price was…. hm.) Lawyers like this prey upon clients’ fears and insecurity, or their inability to handle fear and their primal impulse to react aggressively. A cornered animal will bite. Making someone believe or fear that he’s cornered can make him bite just to feel strong. I don’t mean this entirely glibly, but, no wonder he’s drinking. He’s being played and knows it.

 

Maybe the attorney is now blaming the judge, maybe tossing around some stereotypes about gender bias, men losing, men’s rights, or something else that absolves her of responsibility for having not advised him properly, but redirects his fear and anger toward the judge. Such a perfect set-up for a last minute settlement- the judge is bad, unfair. Cha-ching! None of this means he’s a great person acting impeccably, but he’s probably afraid of you, your lawyer, the possible outcome, and any number of other things.

 

If possible, try not to take it personally. You’re both in a machine. So now even basic discovery feels like a punch. Do all you can to release yourself from the mindset being imposed on both of you by a crappy system. I REALLY hope that they take your offer but I wouldn’t trust her to encourage it. I’d still draft it up as a decree/judgment and send a Word version of it for redlining. That cuts to the chase and cuts costs. Maybe even consider having a printed copy at home and give it to him when he comes over. Handwrite on it something like: “I really want to resolve this and have peace for both of us and for <son>. What do you think? Would you want to change anything? Please let me know.” What do you have to lose? Frankly, I don't even see how it could look bad on your part.

 

I had a BF a ways back who used to negotiate M&A and private equity deals. He used to say, "Always give someone a way to make a deal and save face." I thought that was smart- maybe worth considering how to show him there is a peaceful way to a mutual solution.

Edited January 8, 2015 by BlueIris

[Yasuandio]

Calling you outside your door for a visit is actually very, very creepy. The "family time" dimension of your arguments are also kinda weird. I think you're asking for trouble. But, that's just my take. Yas

[jakrbbt]

Yas-- that's good perspective to have, maybe mine is off because of how hard I tried during the marriage to get H to bond with me and baby as a family. This sounds cold, but even though I care about H a lot, I've never been in love with him or really wanted to be with him. He said all kinds of things while dating about how I didn't love him enough and how I should ask him to marry me, et c. Once our baby came, I think I felt guilty about my feelings for H, and I was kind of afraid our baby would "miss out" on the security of having a family bond. H, meanwhile, was doing his thing pushing me away angrily, leaving all the time, sequestering the master bedroom et c, would not even negotiate three minutes of together-time each day before taking off in the evening. So now, when he is so willing to spend time with me and baby, it feels like I got what I'd wanted for our son.

 

Also my and my son's family therapist (who is very good) made this one comment that maybe I took too far. I told her how my son was running around clapping the first time my husband came over to visit, several weeks in to the separation. She said that of course he was excited, because the two people who meant literally everything to him at this point were in the same room with him.

 

But at what price, huh. I keep on trying to tell myself that H is, or could be, a basically normal person with decent dealings. Yet I have not been able to trust him for a couple years now, and I'm someone who trusts easily.

 

It is almost impossible to drop the hope that H and I will become peaceful constructive co-parents right away. It helps to much to hear the descriptions from BetrayedH and Mr Lucky, who went from difficult divorces to good situations. That tells me that it does not have to be peaceful right away, for it to be peaceful eventually. I should not give up my stability just to have right-away peace on H's terms.

 

I guess hope is hard to find, and once had, hard to lose.

 

What's also confusing is that I would not necessarily have the same boundaries with others as I think I need to set with H. For instance, I have no problem with my parents and friends stopping by suddenly-- partly because it's rare that they do so. In my big family, everyone walks in the door without knocking, we just shout "Hello!" (Of course we know not to do that with other people where it's not the custom.) Friends coming in without knocking doesn't bother me, if the door's unlocked. But I wouldn't let a burglar come in without knocking (or at all, lol). I lock the door at night. H is somewhere on the spectrum between friend and burglar.

 

BlueIris-- Everything you wrote, so true. Great idea about drafting the order. I am starting to think that if we can make it easier for his attorney, come close to trial date, that might be the thing. Dangle a reasonable order in front of her where all she has to do is sign off. She's got an obstinate client who claims not to understand anything, isn't giving her all the info, and brings his sister and/or toddler into the attorney visits. She-- the lawyer-- is not organized and isn't paid much (my lawyer costs five times as much per hour, for instance). And she has to see that their case is not strong. She might not be ready for trial. A done-deal, very reasonable offer, all written up for her, might be the way to get her off this idea that she must take her client all the way to trial before settling. Especially if she sees that he can, with my offer, afford her bill, and without my offer he is unlikely to pay her because he won't likely get spousal support or even keep the boat and car. He has several unpaid debts, garnishment orders, et c-- she must see that he's not going to pay her either. Maybe I'll offer some lump sum to cover some of her fee, if it saves me from paying my own lawyer for trial.

 

I am still reeling from the notion that H won't settle for joint custody.

[BetrayedH]

My gut says your H (and his attorney) know that you're scared about him getting sole custody and so they will use that knowledge to extract everything they can get from you before giving in on it. Your weakness is visible and being exploited. I was similar in that I insisted on 50/50. In the end, I think their arguments against it were actually a distraction from other issues that I gave in on once I felt I had "won" the 50/50 piece. It just seems odd that your H is locking himself into a position where the most likely outcome is that YOU get sole custody. Doesn't it seem that he is just pretending to want sole custody when in reality he'd better settle or get no custody? My gut says this is a negotiation tactic. Then again, I could just be projecting my situation onto yours. It's also possible that his attorney is advising him to fight because greater custody means greater financial support (which would be paramount to your H) and your H's attorney makes more money the longer the fight goes on.

 

Will write more on the questions you asked a bit later; gotta run.

[jakrbbt]

It's also possible that his attorney is advising him to fight because greater custody means greater financial support

 

The scary thing is, he knows sole custody won't affect child support. He learned that in a class we each had to take as divorcing parents. It scares me because it means he just wants custody so he can have control, and he uses control in very unhealthy ways.

 

Or else he figures he can't get to a place of less than 50% parenting-time if he has sole custody (pretty true), and so he won't have to ever owe child support like he did with his first child (and got in trouble for not paying).

[BetrayedH]

As for your boundaries and interactions with your STBX, I think you're getting there. I can tell you that I always ask myself if I really need to contact my ex about something. I've found that by really asking myself that question, my contact was reduced more and more over time. When I do need to interact, my default is to do it by email. If it's really time sensitive, like if I am running late for a dropoff or something, then I'll text. If I have a conversation that's just too involved for text, I'll text and ask if/when she can chat by phone (that happens about once a year). We talk in person once a week when I drop off (very briefly because I've probably already sent any updates via email). Otherwise, I only see her at extracurricular events.

 

I also had someone suggest that I treat her like a disagreeable coworker. It may be someone that you don't like but you still have to courteously and effectively interact with one another. You're not lunch pals and you don't just randomly stop by each others' houses but you still say please and thank you. And while you might do them the occasional courtesy of a small favor, you wouldn't go way out of your way for them, loan them large amounts of money, let them make you late for work, etc.

 

As for your "family time" approach, I think you can get away with that in the short term since your son is a toddler but in the long term, kids benefit the most from consistency and predictability. It communicates safety and security. My ex and I each have calendars in our homes where the kids can see exactly when they'll be with each parent. I also made a point during negotiations to settle on a parenting time schedule that is easy to understand. The kids know they are always with me on Th/Fr/Sa and with their Mom on Su/Mo/Tu (we alternate Wednesdays). Other than vacations, the kids are never away from either parent for more than 3-4 days at a time and they always know when it'll be.

 

My current GF is also divorced and coparenting. They are more amiable than my ex and I. And while it's basically 50/50, they also have an unconventional system for how it is scheduled (hard to follow). With longer stretches, the kids often ask to go to the other parent's home. In fact, it's more like they demand it (nothing like establishing a precedent). There's a lot of changed plans and plan B's. I believe it actually causes stress in the kids and the parent's amiability actually creates an unrealistic hope that their parents will reunite.

 

I'm glad I don't have that drama and chaos. I am separately moving on with my life. My exwife is doing the same. The kids are fine. I'm sure some people manage to do better but this is working for us.

[BetrayedH]

The scary thing is, he knows sole custody won't affect child support. He learned that in a class we each had to take as divorcing parents. It scares me because it means he just wants custody so he can have control, and he uses control in very unhealthy ways.

 

Or else he figures he can't get to a place of less than 50% parenting-time if he has sole custody (pretty true), and so he won't have to ever owe child support like he did with his first child (and got in trouble for not paying).

 

I have a feeling that our speculations about his motives are going to be fairly fruitless, as are your anxieties. It doesn't change anything and just serves to distract. Know what I mean? You're better served by dotting i's and crossing t's.

[Yasuandio]

I have a feeling that our speculations about his motives are going to be fairly fruitless, as are your anxieties. It doesn't change anything and just serves to distract. Know what I mean? You're better served by dotting i's and crossing t's.

 

Exactly. It is a crap shoot. The best thing to focus on is your strength and sanity. As well, cut his weird-azz conduct out of the picture. [You've nicely psycho-analyzed it, it all makes sense, however, it makes makes no difference, weird is weird. And when people are getting a divorce, one of them does not "stalk" unexpectedly outside the other's door to call for a visitation. Nope. That ain't gonna fly].

 

You are going to be a divorced woman from this man, period. The divorce is going to turn out one way or the other, that's that. This time next year, hopefully, you'll be living your answer.

 

Now, again, I'm going to emphasis NOT to be a mind-reader on what the Judge or Courts will do, and to lay low with the confidence, keep a cool head, don't get inflated. Case presidence can always be set by a new case - don't forget the fact that you have an unusual one. Another factor to consider are the legal fees that you might be ordered to pay, since husband is a SAHS.

 

Finally, divorces can be stretched out against your will, mine was drawn out almost four years, and I had the best firm in ATL, top gun divorce attorney, extremely well known. A spouse that is bound and determined at dragging their feet, and being uncooperative can cause the matter to go out of control. My point is, any divorce CAN and WILL be completely INSANE if one party wishes it so. I'm sorry to tell you that.

 

To minimize these disasters, you have to detach, and cut this guy off - no more "visits" to your bachorette pad. Actually, in all fairness, it could send mixed signals to him - really. This stalking crap is over. Email contact regarding child ONLY. To get out of "La-La Land" honey, NC is gonna be real helpful.

 

Don't feed the monster - that's my moto. The marriage and opportunity to "play house" is long gone and over, period.

 

These are my thoughts. Keep up the good work. You are gonna be fine. Yas

[jakrbbt]

I need help getting over the latest upsetting little thing.

 

It was meant to upset me, and it probably shouldn't. I guess that's where you guys come in.

 

Let me preface: One keystone "tactic" of the covert-aggressor is to put the other person on the defensive. A covert-aggressor will put someone on the defensive and play on their guilt or fear when he wants to get something from them.

 

This evening I wanted to see our child, it's been 2 days and will be another 2 days before my time with him. H said sure, come on over. When I got there, we played with our son for awhile. Then H said, "You should take us out to dinner." (He did later agree to go "dutch"-- after we were driving away, though). I said yes because I wanted to keep seeing more of my son.

 

At the restaurant, H made some veiled comments about how we wouldn't necessarily both be "raising" our son. It was really weird and vague. But it made me think of how he's not agreeing to joint custody. Then he said, "You haven't eaten much." And I said, "I'm nervous." He asked, "So I make you nervous?" I said, well, yes. He said, "Do you think I'm making you nervous on purpose to gain some tactical advantage?" (He said it kind of sarcastically.) I said, "Rem acu tetigisti." OK, I didn't use the Latin, he doesn't speak Latin. What I said was, "Yes. I do think that." I guess I thought I was being frank. That I was refusing to lie and give him the answer he wanted ("Oh nooo, I could never say you were doing anything manipulative.")

 

He made some protest. and I said, "Well, I'm not stupid." (I might have been wrong about that.)

 

Later, I told him his coat smelled like cigar. His room did too. I mean, it really reeked, (I didn't put it that way though), and he was going to job interviews and I wanted him to know. But he also probably thinks I'd complain about him smoking around our child. (I've just put a no-smoking-around-child clause in the settlement offer, he can reject it if he wants).

 

In between all that, we were making very pleasant conversation and interacting with our son.

 

The rest of the evening went great-- I helped with our son's bath, we played with him and I left. I sent a text saying it was a nice evening. He sent back this very offended-sounding text, saying nothing except: "I do not stink, my room does not stink, and that has been independently verified. I am not trying to keep you on edge to gain a tactical advantage." That was it.

 

So I texted, telling him I want to get along. I told him to just tell me if I say or do something he doesn't like, and we can deal with it when it happens, rather than waiting until it's become hostile like he did. I said I was very sorry if I made him feel like he stinks, that of course he doesn't stink. I added that I did smell cigar, and that if he thought cigars were going to be an issue, just to tell me so. I said I thought we could agree on many things and stay friendly.

 

So that was me trying to say, "Don't try to put me on the defensive just to cow me into not complaining about your smoking around the child. Don't hold our "extra" visits with child over my head on the condition that I refrain from taking issue with your smoking, your manipulating or anything else. We can straight-negotiate the smoking or other issues, I won't be bullied on them. Don't ask me whether I think you're trying to make me nervous, if you're going to take offense to the answer-- because I won't lie just to appease you."

 

Only I might not have successfully conveyed all that.

 

More importantly, it might not matter whether I conveyed it or not. Why can I not get that through my skull????? Usually I am good at learning concepts, even soft concepts.

 

OK, if his manipulating really doesn't matter, I need to make it so it doesn't.

 

But I am afraid that he won't agree to me visiting my son on my off-days, because he's offended that I called him out on the smoking and the fear-mongering. And I should not have called him out on either one, anyway. I should simply have 1) put the smoking clause in the settlement offer and kept my mouth shut unless and until he actually broke a no-smoking agreement; and 2) rather than saying I was nervous, told him not to ask personal questions. Then, rather than being nervous, just called his big fat bluff on the custody issue- by going to trial if he won't settle on joint custody.

 

Now I can't sleep. I feel like I've lost the chance of extra time with my son.

He's not even two yet.

[jakrbbt]

I just re-read all that, and I think I am not being sane here.

 

waaaaayy too much of a relationship with ex.

 

If seeing baby in between parenting-time is so important, why can't we just draft it into our parenting plan? With boundaries and guidelines? Like, "Each parent shall make reasonable effort to accommodate the other, on sufficient notice, for a two to four-hour visit with child during the other's parenting time, while child is under three. During such visit, the parties will attempt to keep interactions child-focused and will not use that time to discuss disputes." Or whatever. Better than what we have now, at least.

 

So why not do that?

 

Because I know he wants to get back together, but is also mad at me. I feel that if I really rebuff him and have separate lives, he'll punish me even more. I feel I need to show him that I'm willing to go along with this fake-relationship thing, if I want him to dole out the extra time with baby. But that's kind of insane.

 

Maybe I'll send an email saying that I want to keep being able to have in-between visits while baby is young, and that maybe we can lay down some ground rules that we both try to follow for those. If it doesn't work, well, we tried.

[beach]

Jak,

 

Setting a boundary is going to help you be realistic about the next 17 or so years.

 

What does that boundary look like for YOU? Write it out. Stick to it.

 

I found that my boundary was for me. It helped me to not get upset.

 

Control - you do try to control him. You can't - it doesn't work that way. Let's say you put a no smoking clause in there...he smokes - so how do you enforce that? You can't. It's designed to make you feel crazy and mad - so that one isn't really enforceable.

 

 

So you wanted to see the child. Why spend time with your H too? It GIVES HIM too much ample opportunity to do what he does best = manipulate you.

 

If you want to see the child then do it without your H around.

 

Have you read the book the four agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz? It would help you set some boundaries.

 

It does feel like crazyville when one person is trying to control and the other is responding with manipulative tactics. So stop participating with crazy. You have to figure you're always going to get crazy from him. He dumps it onto you at every opportunity and it makes your head spin.

 

Do not engage with him. When you do he uses that opportunity every time to use you for something, make you cared with intimidation and fear.

 

I think your losing sight of what you can control. Only put things in the court papers that are important and controllable. Visitation is important - with who and when - the money matter is important - the child's safety is important - healthcare - tax write off will come into play. Those things are negotiable with the court. Whether or not he uses drugs around the child is important but since you'd have to PROVE it with a test it's not likely he will abide by YOUR rules.

 

I'd think no drug/alcohol use - would be more important than smoking a cigar. Even at that it takes the court to drug test him to find "evidence" and even that's tough to enforce consequences onto him.

 

 

You can't FIGHT every small battle.

 

 

Pick the big issues and get flexible on the others. Unless you really like being his victim and wish for that for 20 more years... Which I doubt.

 

It's almost as if you "offer" these conversations to him to twist on you - that make you upset. Are you seeing a counselor? One that can help you to stop being HIS victim? To stop handing HIM all of YOUR power?

 

He's got all your power - but that's only because you hand it to him on a silver platter. Stop giving him his ammunition.

 

 

My exH doesn't do those things to me anymore because I don't ALLOW HIM TO.

 

 

You wanted to see the child - why agree to take H out and pay for dinner? That should have never happened. Learn how to say "NO".

 

You want to see the child more - ask to pick up the baby and leave for a while with the child. Or just don't ask. Stick to the parenting plan and stay busy while he has the baby.

 

Learn how to be uncomfortable. Your going to be uncomfortable a lot in the next 20 years - get used to it. Ask a counselor to help you with that too. It sucks - but it's necessary being a parent.

 

Hugs

 

 

Read that book!!! It's awesome and should help you...

Edited January 10, 2015 by beach

[beach]

He definitely gives an action so that you react or over react.

 

Try contrary action so that it feels neutral = by doing no action.

 

Like when discussing going out to eat (notice he made it clear you were paying - a new action from you would be simply to answer "no".

 

He uses you - but only because you allow it.

 

Start answering with contrary action. Any answer can be with one word - take your pick - it is either yes or no.

 

Only answer with those to everything he asks. Do not explain any of your feelings to him!

[BetrayedH]

Meant gently, WTF are you doing?!

 

You've invited this kind of interaction by "playing family" yet again. You are aware that you're divorcing, right? Remember that he doesn't "play family" well, hence the divorce?

 

The way that you agoid these manipulative conversations is to not enter into them. Instead, you're inviting them and then mystified that it happened. You can't exactly ask for favors and then be rude by refusing to have any personal conversation. Don't wanna have to play nice? Don't ask for favors.

 

Get used to not seeing your son on your off days. You and your son will survive a 4 day stretch. And if you must ask him a favor (which I highly discourage), do as Beach said and ask to take your son for a few hours.

 

You are not detaching. You are not setting healthy boundaries. And you are inviting prolonged drama voluntarily. You should be questioning yourself about every interaction and whether it is REALLY necessary. If it isn't, you don't engage. And I've repeatedly recommended that communication is as limited as possible in the following order of preference: Email>Text>Call>Face-to-face. What are you doing? Inviting him to dinner. SMH.

 

Good thing I like ya anyway. You just gotta get better at this.

[beach]

Keep in mind - this "covert aggressor" didn't attack you.

 

You purposely invited his attack by being around him.

 

Re read your post and ask yourself how you could have participated differently (in a healthy manner).

 

Were you abused as a younger child? It may make sense if you were - because you continue to go back and beg him to abuse you further - and naturally those who were abused do that because it's familiar and normal that someone treat them terribly.

 

And your reactions about that elusive need to control things that are out of your control are never obtainable.

 

Control yourself. That's all you have control over.

[kenmore]

Meant gently, WTF are you doing?!

 

You've invited this kind of interaction by "playing family" yet again. You are aware that you're divorcing, right? Remember that he doesn't "play family" well, hence the divorce?

 

The way that you agoid these manipulative conversations is to not enter into them. Instead, you're inviting them and then mystified that it happened. You can't exactly ask for favors and then be rude by refusing to have any personal conversation. Don't wanna have to play nice? Don't ask for favors.

 

Get used to not seeing your son on your off days. You and your son will survive a 4 day stretch. And if you must ask him a favor (which I highly discourage), do as Beach said and ask to take your son for a few hours.

 

You are not detaching. You are not setting healthy boundaries. And you are inviting prolonged drama voluntarily. You should be questioning yourself about every interaction and whether it is REALLY necessary. If it isn't, you don't engage. And I've repeatedly recommended that communication is as limited as possible in the following order of preference: Email>Text>Call>Face-to-face. What are you doing? Inviting him to dinner. SMH.

 

Good thing I like ya anyway. You just gotta get better at this.

 

I have to agree here too. I understand you feel it's better for your son if he sees you together, but that's not true. In the long run it will be damaging. Since you two are divorcing, you won't be together and the more he sees you together, the harder it will be for him later.

 

Add to that what you're doing to yourself by all of this exposure to your husband, and it just adds up to being a horrible idea. You're right he does want to get back together with you and you're making that easy by putting your emotions on a plate for him. It will be much easier for you to not see your son for a few days than to keep putting yourself through this torture.

 

I feel badly enough today after a three and a half hour string of texts with my wife yesterday trying to settle some legal stuff, and we didn't even talk about "us". It began with a call from our insurance agent telling me she wants to take me off the policy. I FINALLY had the upper hand because the restraining orders say she can't do that and it felt so good telling both of them that! HA!

 

So, even just talking business and having the upper hand, why do I feel down today? Because we interacted, and it just brings it back to the surface. Thus the idea of NC in the first place.

 

What you're doing is the opposite of NC. You must stop it ASAP.

 

Ken

[jakrbbt]

Thanks, both of you. I needed that. I have thought a lot about this.

 

When I first posted about last night's dinner, I was trying to show my H's behavior. But then I read it, and it showed MY behavior. I almost erased it. But I left it, wanting to know what you guys would say. It's been helpful.

 

I am VERY worried that my son won't do well with 4 days away from me. He used to spend most or all of every day with me. He's barely even weaned! BetrayedH, how are your kids' bond with their mother and you? Are you sure he'll be OK with the 4-day gap? I'll ask our family therapist too. If I know he'll likely be fine with it, then it will be that much easier to resolve not to see my husband any more than necessary. At least, for now. Until I am sure I am out of this fog.

 

I'm trying too hard to get the result I want from H-- a reasonable settlement without ugly trial. I have got to recognize that I just can't get that from him. I can ask, but that's about it. If he says no, even if that's unreasonable of him, then that is my answer. Then I go the litigation route and I pay for it and I endure it. And I don't try to save his feelings by not presenting the evidence against him. Yeah, it costs money that my son could otherwise have. But I guess I can't control that.

 

See though, I say these things, and then I go and do another!! I need a physical reminder. Like a rhyme, or a Latin phrase, or secret hand gesture.

 

I have ordered the Four Agreements. I'll write down my boundaries-- I'll just write them. And it helps a lot, to be reminded that my husband was never good at "playing family"-- of course, that's why I divorced him!

 

I wasn't abused as a child, but I was pretty sheltered. We weren't rich, but we were comfortable, and had a big property and private school and good food and sensible clothes and very good parents. But outside the privilege bubble, I saw a lot of very impoverished, disorganized, drug-addicted, crime-ridden hard living. I really saw it when I got my first job out of law school, representing the indigent. My husband isn't really in either camp, but I fear my son being unable to reach the relatively-privileged, educated world. I want to pull my husband up out of his disorganized, hand-to-mouth, dishonest, impulsive lifestyle so my son can have two stable parents.

 

I need to be OK with my son only having what I can give him--and beyond that, simply not being abused or neglected. Why can't I accept that scenario? I should know that there's more than one way to raise a kid well. I should give my son some credit.

 

And it's possible-- though I've denied it-- that I miss my husband. Before we were married, we did have a lot of affection for each other. I wanted to share things with him-- I still do!

 

I keep telling myself I don't miss him, because if I did, then that means that I "miss" an abusive situation and will go back to one. But I suspect, if I just let myself be sad and accept that it is over-- that it was never even possible-- then I'm less likely to keep hanging out with him. As long as I know my son will be fine with those long stretches.

 

The tobacco clause is in my settlement offer, and the judges here often just put it in the parenting-plan orders no matter what. But I agree that enforcing it would be another thing, and probably not worth it. Theoretically I could go back to court and ask for sole custody or more parenting time if H were breaching the agreement, but that's not my aim at all. It would have to be totally necessary for my son's well-being (worse than exposure to cigar smoke) before I'd do that.

 

I'll post updates, I neded the checkups.

[BetrayedH]

Good post above. And hey, you're human. Just keep reminding yourself about detaching and having boundaries that help you detach and we'll be here to remind you, too. Fortunately, your story isn't near the top of the percentiles of 'bad' stories around here so don't sweat it too much. I don't get too stressed about failing to reach final goals in a hurry; I strive for continuous improvement.

 

As for my kids, we've been at this for 3 years now and the kids are peachy with both parents. My exwife is not exactly emotionally mature so I think their relationship with her is less 'bonded' per say (at least for my son) but I don't think anyone but me would characterize it as anything other than fine.

 

One perspective that might help regarding your angst over 3-4 day absences - my readings (unscientific as they are) say that judges are generally loathe to arrange parenting plans that have any less than a week between exchanges. There's apparently some evidence that it's just switching too often for the kids and so the guideline is that they spend a week or more between transitions. Our schedule was arranged based on our work schedules/days off and our desire to have the kids go no more than 3-4 days before seeing the other parent. Their Mom (or Dad) is never more than a couple days away. That said, I feel that we got lucky that it wasn't in the hands of the court because neither of us could really just take a full week's ownership of the kids without having it impact work and neither of us want to go a full week without them. I felt lucky that we got the 3-4 day split. I don't think more frequency would be better (I do tend to agree that more frequent transitions would be more difficult for everyone) and I'm glad we don't go a week (or more) like some parents do.

 

I tend to look at it as just a reality of divorce. I was bitter with my exwife for quite a while about losing my kids half the time. But when you divorce, losing them half the time is the best case scenario. I think you should just work towards acceptance of it (acceptance is the last stage of all this, by the way). And as we've discussed, use your time with your son to be as good of an influence as possible. Your half of the time will have a remarkable impact, even if your H is a slacker.

 

Oddly enough, I think that doing it separarely helps to a large extent. Doing it together 100% of the time left us both exhausted. Now I get a 3-4 day break to recoup and I have time to plan activities for when the kids are here. I suspect that we're both better parents just due to that alone. There also develops a weird sort of competition between the parents. Neither want to be the 'bad' parent so both tend to step up their game. I think you've said you've seen some of that with your STBX. It's tamed down in my situation but it's still there. The nice bonus is that I get to do some adult things on my free days. That didn't exist for me before.

 

I don't think you'll know how it's going to play out until it plays out. And unless you cancel the divorce, it's going to play out. So, just accept that it will and react to challenges as best you can.

 

That's BH's $.02 for today anyway.

[clevelander321]

As others have said, you need a much more clean break.

 

I think being newly divorced, the hardest thing to get used to was not having my wife contact me, or me contact her for every thing the kid says that is cute, funny, photos etc.. We were texting way too much.

 

The sad reality in divorce for me, is that only one other person loves this child as much as I, and that is my ex wife.. But we cannot share all of these moments together forever, or neither of us will really move on.

 

Maybe that is what he meant by "we will not raise this child together", as that reality sinks in quickly.

[kenmore]

I am VERY worried that my son won't do well with 4 days away from me. He used to spend most or all of every day with me. He's barely even weaned! BetrayedH, how are your kids' bond with their mother and you? Are you sure he'll be OK with the 4-day gap? I'll ask our family therapist too.

 

Excuses Jac.

 

I should know that there's more than one way to raise a kid well. I should give my son some credit.

 

And there you answered your own question.

 

Ken

[beach]

He has every right to parent for the time he has the child. Allow him to do that until he shows evidence that he's incapable of doing it.

 

Trying to control him/ the outcome is exhausting. Let it take it's course and you will see what needs to be done (or not) as it unfolds.

 

If it's bad the evidence will show up sooner rather than later if you stop intervening (trying to fix it or take away his consequences).

 

You could be delaying what you need = the evidence that he's not parenting well/ using drugs again.

 

So stop controlling it. You are roadblocking your evidence with control.

 

 

Step away while he has the child. Do not check up on him and don't respond to him.

 

The ONLY notification you need is IF the child is in danger. Otherwise allow him to parent when he has the baby and understand things will work out the way they are supposed to.