He filed, asked for sole custody

[clevelander321]

If you are worried about a "tobacco clause", I am thinking that might be an issue that backfires.. Courts see a wide range of cases, and if you are worried about tobacco, all it really says is that the guy is really not that bad.

[beach]

It's actually ridiculous that she's wasting her time on a cigar clause when the husbands behavior is the same as complete druggies.

 

When it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

Ya... Let's worry about a stinky cigar = complete denial about his real issue.

[Yasuandio]

Besides the obvious conclusions:

 

You don't even have to ask for baby time during his four days. He will ask to give you the baby cause he cannot handle him, if you just give him an opportunity to see for himself he is over his head. Sure, I know your response (husband will take child to sister, or elsewhere). Here's my answer: So what. Eventually, these people will get sick of being his free baby sitter, while he does his "thang."

 

Just back off. Let him have his 4 days without any interference. That is what you would (eventually) want when you move on with you life. And, ultimately, that is what you've said all along, " you want to be fair, you want equal-coparenting, you want 50/50 custody." Well, this is what it looks like. Yas

[jakrbbt]

I have learned a lesson, and it's going to feel uncomfortable to stick to it.

 

But it also feels uncomfortable now, to play house with my ex. Two days ago, I felt like if I could only be good friends with him, all the scary stuff would go away and we'd always be fine. I don't feel like that anymore. I don't feel like having him over or trying to get to where I could trust him. The bubble has popped, and it's uncomfortable and lonely-- but also, less weird. Yes, I'm scared again, but I'd rather feel some fear than live in a fog and walk my kid through a hysterical lie.

 

A friend came to stay the night. Not a guy friend, just a regular old female friend, staying over as if we were in college. She grew up with a manipulator and had some wise counsel for me. We had some little adventures. When she left, I realized I don't have a lot of friends like her around anymore. I've been more isolated than I'd realized. So as busy as I am, I am going to go ahead and schedule weekends and hikes and such with friends. My husband has loomed so large, he's been the reason I do or don't go into a specific room, run the bath too late, get certain things at the store, keep a damn log of our comings and goings. What a crazy life I have had with him. It would be good to get other people into the forefront of my life and my thoughts.

 

I guess he and I don't have to be friends right away. It's uncomfortable, because we have a small child together. But maybe the discomfort won't last. Maybe I'll move on and stop feeling guilty about his difficulties, and I'll have other friends and pursuits, and my son will be fine. Who knows.

 

When I first moved out and H was barely talking to me, I was freaked out all the time. He was unpredictable and I was scared. Several weeks later, when he suddenly called to chat and came over for friendly visits, I was so relieved that I felt super happy. It was weird. My friend thinks that I keep following carrots and sticks with my husband.

 

After all the hell, and hanging on through hellish hell, I wanted it to be comfortable right away just because I finally got out of there. What I'm hearing is, it's not going to be comfortable right away, and that's ok. We're not done yet. You don't lie down and take a rest when you're halfway across the English Channel, just because it was hard getting that far, right? I don't get to erase my mistake in a moment just by moving out and paying H some money and making a parenting plan. It's going to be tougher than that-- but still worth it, right?

 

My goal is to stop worrying so much about H, stop trying to get him to settle (other than offering him a reasonable settlement), and stop trying to have the marriage that I wisely left. I can't control all the things that would make my and my son's life "so right" and "the best" life. But I could control one thing-- I could leave my husband. I did that. I think that was the right thing to do. I should honor that.

 

Oh yeah, and as for emailing, months ago he sent me a distainful email about how I was slimy to communicate with him through email. He thought I was trying to build a record or be cold. I backed off on emailing, and texted or called instead, because I didn't want to seem cold or huffy or overly formal. Screw that. If emailing is more comfortable for me, that's what I'll do-- regardless of what H reads into it. There's nothing wrong with emailing a person instead of texting. I email my siblings and dad all the time.

 

It's soooo uncomfortable right now, though. I still feel I'll freak out if and when he rejects my offer.

Edited January 12, 2015 by jakrbbt

[jakrbbt]

If you are worried about a "tobacco clause", I am thinking that might be an issue that backfires.. Courts see a wide range of cases, and if you are worried about tobacco, all it really says is that the guy is really not that bad.

 

It's more my jurisdiction-- most the judges put a tobacco clause in the parenting-plan orders, along with a no-drugs and no-excessive-drinking-while-parenting clause. I liked all those and at my lawyer's suggestion I put them in, just like they're in most parenting-plans around here. The idea is that if two parents have joint custody and one of them keeps violating the agreement, then the other one can claim a "substantial change in circumstances" and get it modified to sole custody. But I agree that the tobacco is far from the biggest issue in this divorce. I'm not going to go back to court over some cigar smoke, and I shouldn't have mentioned the cigars to him. I thought I was showing him that I'm basically on to him, and he's not as sneaky as he thinks, but that was dumb of me.

[jakrbbt]

I'm wanting perspective on something else:

 

My lawyer asked me to contact people who could testify about my character as it relates to my ability to establish constructive relationships with children.

 

I used to be a nanny. One family I consistently nannied for years, are well-connected here. The mother is (among other things) the head of a local organization that works with children. She, and the organization, are extremely well-respected by the local judges. They are well-respected statewide, in fact. And she-- the mother-- is also one of those people who make a point to get involved in the community and know everyone.

 

She gave me very high compliments about my nannying. I know I did a great job, and really loved her kids.

 

But I feel very guilty about having gotten out of touch more than a decade ago when I stopped nannying and went onto law school. I saw her once since, and I feel it was awkward. (awkward because i'd gotten out of touch-- and that was my fault, if memory serves.) I saw her another time more recently with her husband, and they either didn't recognize me or didn't want to say hello.

 

Do I still contact her and ask whether she'd be willing to testify? She's a very honest person and will tell the truth, but she might feel put on the spot. There are a couple others I could ask too, but this one is important.

Edited January 14, 2015 by jakrbbt

[clevelander321]

Did you already have a temporary hearing?

[jakrbbt]

Did you already have a temporary hearing?

 

There's no such thing as temporary custody.

 

"Custody" is not the same thing as "parenting time." Usually, unless someone is a coke addict or doesn't want 50/50, most judges in this jurisdiction award 50/50 parenting time. It's been the trend for the past 5 to 7 years. We already settled on 50/50 parenting time for the temporary parenting-time order. That's what courts do anyway in most cases, for temporary orders, even if they end up going with something other than 50/50.

 

(Something kind of unique: Around here, we do divorce trials in 4-6 months with very few exceptions. So the temporary orders don't establish a status quo.)

 

But custody is legal the ability to make decisions regarding the child. You can't have temporary legal custody. The court will award sole custody to one or the other of us-- unless we stipulate to joint custody. Custody is the main thing we'll be litigating at trial. (Well, unless H also requests some amount of spousal support that would render me unable to even support my son- then we'll be litigating that too I guess.)

 

And the temporary spousal support was decided on affidavits-- $200/month, which I offered to continue for more than half the duration of our marriage. (He's less likely to get spousal support if trial, but who knows.)

[beach]

I have learned a lesson, and it's going to feel uncomfortable to stick to it.

 

But it also feels uncomfortable now, to play house with my ex. Two days ago, I felt like if I could only be good friends with him, all the scary stuff would go away and we'd always be fine. I don't feel like that anymore. I don't feel like having him over or trying to get to where I could trust him. The bubble has popped, and it's uncomfortable and lonely-- but also, less weird. Yes, I'm scared again, but I'd rather feel some fear than live in a fog and walk my kid through a hysterical lie.

 

A friend came to stay the night. Not a guy friend, just a regular old female friend, staying over as if we were in college. She grew up with a manipulator and had some wise counsel for me. We had some little adventures. When she left, I realized I don't have a lot of friends like her around anymore. I've been more isolated than I'd realized. So as busy as I am, I am going to go ahead and schedule weekends and hikes and such with friends. My husband has loomed so large, he's been the reason I do or don't go into a specific room, run the bath too late, get certain things at the store, keep a damn log of our comings and goings. What a crazy life I have had with him. It would be good to get other people into the forefront of my life and my thoughts.

 

I guess he and I don't have to be friends right away. It's uncomfortable, because we have a small child together. But maybe the discomfort won't last. Maybe I'll move on and stop feeling guilty about his difficulties, and I'll have other friends and pursuits, and my son will be fine. Who knows.

 

When I first moved out and H was barely talking to me, I was freaked out all the time. He was unpredictable and I was scared. Several weeks later, when he suddenly called to chat and came over for friendly visits, I was so relieved that I felt super happy. It was weird. My friend thinks that I keep following carrots and sticks with my husband.

 

After all the hell, and hanging on through hellish hell, I wanted it to be comfortable right away just because I finally got out of there. What I'm hearing is, it's not going to be comfortable right away, and that's ok. We're not done yet. You don't lie down and take a rest when you're halfway across the English Channel, just because it was hard getting that far, right? I don't get to erase my mistake in a moment just by moving out and paying H some money and making a parenting plan. It's going to be tougher than that-- but still worth it, right?

 

My goal is to stop worrying so much about H, stop trying to get him to settle (other than offering him a reasonable settlement), and stop trying to have the marriage that I wisely left. I can't control all the things that would make my and my son's life "so right" and "the best" life. But I could control one thing-- I could leave my husband. I did that. I think that was the right thing to do. I should honor that.

 

Oh yeah, and as for emailing, months ago he sent me a distainful email about how I was slimy to communicate with him through email. He thought I was trying to build a record or be cold. I backed off on emailing, and texted or called instead, because I didn't want to seem cold or huffy or overly formal. Screw that. If emailing is more comfortable for me, that's what I'll do-- regardless of what H reads into it. There's nothing wrong with emailing a person instead of texting. I email my siblings and dad all the time.

 

It's soooo uncomfortable right now, though. I still feel I'll freak out if and when he rejects my offer.

 

Do your best not to contact him at ALL.

 

Stick to the schedule - pay what the court said - and don't communicate unless the child needs emergency medical attention.

 

 

There's nothing you need to email him about. It ONLY serves HIM well when you contact him. He's a liar and he manipulates you. Stop giving him the opportunities to do that to you.

 

And yes ask the woman for a reference - maybe she can write a letter so she's not inconvenienced by a court date?

Edited January 14, 2015 by beach

[BetrayedH]

I'm wanting perspective on something else:

 

My lawyer asked me to contact people who could testify about my character as it relates to my ability to establish constructive relationships with children.

 

I used to be a nanny. One family I consistently nannied for years, are well-connected here. The mother is (among other things) the head of a local organization that works with children. She, and the organization, are extremely well-respected by the local judges. They are well-respected statewide, in fact. And she-- the mother-- is also one of those people who make a point to get involved in the community and know everyone.

 

She gave me very high compliments about my nannying. I know I did a great job, and really loved her kids.

 

But I feel very guilty about having gotten out of touch more than a decade ago when I stopped nannying and went onto law school. I saw her once since, and I feel it was awkward. (awkward because i'd gotten out of touch-- and that was my fault, if memory serves.) I saw her another time more recently with her husband, and they either didn't recognize me or didn't want to say hello.

 

Do I still contact her and ask whether she'd be willing to testify? She's a very honest person and will tell the truth, but she might feel put on the spot. There are a couple others I could ask too, but this one is important.

 

Yes, you do. If she's standoffish, take her off the list.

[Yasuandio]

You find out who your real friends are when it comes to witnesses (character witnesses, or witnesses of abuse or even violent assault). I found that no one wanted to get involved. Even my former colleage (both of us retired), biestie, of 17 years - that saw everything with her own two eyes (suddenly, somehow, transportation became an issue; then memory became problematic, hmmmmm). Real, reality kick in the teeth. How did she forget him busting up my face and my nose, and shopping the pharmacy for medical supplies so to avoid me going to the hospital (back in those days)? Ahhhh, duh? Maybe she's getting Alsheimer's. Right. I had NO witness, period. And my Mom died the month of the trial, so, it was too late for her to testify to the azz kickings I endurred. I can just thank myself for that (I created and maintained an opportunity for these things to occur). This is why I try to warn others on LS, as I have learned from experience.

 

Bottom line. No one wants to tesyify and be cross examined. And, actually, that majes perfect sense. Why subject yourself to Courtroom drama and disvomfort if you don't have to? I get that now. I would never be a witness for anyone either, now. Y

[jakrbbt]

My offer to my husband was supposed to expire last Friday, but he asked for a few more days, so he could meet with his lawyer. My lawyer gave his lawyer an extra week. So it expires this Friday.

 

I am already kind of regretting some things in the offer (tax stuff, logistics stuff) that are not likely to work out. And our son seems distressed by the new parenting plan, he misses me a lot more, cries when he sees his dad at first, and has sleep problems. But he's otherwise happy and thriving. I'm hoping he'll adjust like so many do. I continue to take him to a therapist regularly, and he saw his excellent pediatrician today.

 

All of a sudden I am feeling calmer about the outcome. I have decided to go ahead and prepare for trial, at least whatever I can do without my lawyer. Just in case H rejects the offer. I have lined up one excellent witness, and gotten some other stuff together. And this isn't really related, but I've begun running again. I'll do 6 or 7 miles at just above 6:00 pace, then I'll get distracted but not tired, and go home. Before, no way would my brain let me run.

 

H may come back with some exploitive counter-offer for more money than I can afford to pay him. I've offered everything (assets, retirement, the same spousal support he's getting now). The only wiggle room he'd have is to increase the spousal support, and that's unwise because then I'd retract some of the other concessions. Plus, spousal support is very unlikely at trial. And more important, I can't really afford more than I'm offering and still pay my rent and bills for me and our son. So I will draw the line at what I can't afford without getting evicted or defaulting on student loans or similar.

 

I hope to get something hammered out that works for our son. If I can't, then to trial we go. For some reason, the nerves are much lessened.

 

H has been asking me to watch our son when he needs a break sometimes. He's been working odd jobs and still living for free in a nice family's spare room. He loves our son and probably fears "losing" him. But I get the sense that I'll end up with the lion's share of time with our son, and the huge lion's share (if not entirety) of child expenses e.g. medical care, school, et c. No matter what's in the agreement. I'm fine with that, I'd love the opportunity to see more of my son and care for him both time-wise and financially.

 

I had an intense talk with my boss. My work is good, but I've been slow. He didn't know I was in this bad-relationship-divorce situation. He advised me to focus on the custody and divorce first, and then use this year to bring up my production. In the meantime, I'm half-forced, half-choosing to give a big work project to another colleague. It was a very hard day. It was an eye-opener. I see my past year, and it looks like my husband versus my career. Or rather, my husband's inane behavior (e.g. sleeping in until noon and leaving all the time and costing money and being a giant teenager) versus my career. It has already become easier to detach from him with that in mind.

 

Nothing the judge might do-- nothing that might happen during trial-- could be worse than getting entangled into a post-divorce "relationship" with this loose cannon of an ex-husband. I mean, I have no desire to be mean or stand in his way to success, but I'm done with worrying about whether he'll take offense to random things and retaliate. If he does, he does, and I deal with it.

 

And I'll have to really prove myself at work in 2015. It's not easy when feeling discouraged. But I think I dodged a bullet, because one more year of marriage with H, and I'd have been a low-producer at work for too long. I will see my work productivity as a way of celebrating that I am no longer in a bad marriage.

[BetrayedH]

Pretty much your whole post sounds very healthy. Great to read.

 

Perhaps the one area I might caution you about are these concessions that you already anticipate. I think you sound like you've already reached your threshold. It's encouraging to hear that you may have a line where you are prepared to say, no. I think most divorce attorneys will tell you that one of their major cautions for clients is about regrets for concessions that were made in the divorce that they're stuck with for years. Many, MANY people make concessions just to avoid a fight and get it over with. Based on my experience, the regret begins before the ink is even dry (and I didn't even have a lot to regret).

 

I'd recommend that you put specificity to language regarding reimbursement of shared expenses. Why are you just accepting responsibility for greater than your share of expenses before an agreement is even signed? I know you haven't substantively done anything yet but the mindset sounds like one that can be manipulated (and you have a history of that being taken advantage of). If I had advice, it might be to default to what your attorney thinks he/she can win rather than starting with everything you're ready to give up (only to have your husband ask for more). I'm not saying to be unfair; I'm just saying to be cautious about being unnecessarily gracious. Your attorney may actually be more objective than you.

 

But I do like that you have a line and that you're not irrationally afraid of a trial.

Edited January 21, 2015 by BetrayedH

[Yasuandio]

Pretty much your whole post sounds very healthy. Great to read.

 

Perhaps the one area I might caution you about are these concessions that you already anticipate. I think you sound like you've already reached your threshold. It's encouraging to hear that you may have a line where you are prepared to say, no. I think most divorce attorneys will tell you that one of their major cautions for clients is about regrets for concessions that were made in the divorce that they're stuck with for years. Many, MANY people make concessions just to avoid a fight and get it over with. Based on my experience, the regret begins before the ink is even dry (and I didn't even have a lot to regret).

 

I'd recommend that you put specificity to language regarding reimbursement of shared expenses. Why are you just accepting responsibility for greater than your share of expenses before an agreement is even signed? I know you haven't substantively done anything yet but the mindset sounds like one that can be manipulated (and you have a history of that being taken advantage of). If I had advice, it might be to default to what your attorney thinks he/she can win rather than starting with everything you're ready to give up (only to have your husband ask for more). I'm not saying to be unfair; I'm just saying to be cautious about being unnecessarily gracious. Your attorney may actually be more objective than you.

 

But I do like that you have a line and that you're not irrationally afraid of a trial.

 

This is stated so tactfully, tastefully, easily to swallow. Yas

[jakrbbt]

Well, at the time I authorized the agreement, I was irrationally afraid of trial.

 

Then some of the regrets over concessions lessened my fears of trial. Is that what the poets call irony?

 

I offered more than he'd be likely to get (I'm talking financials here), but less than what even a half-day trial with efficient preparation would cost me in attorney fees.

 

As far as parenting-time and legal custody, I offered what I thought was reasonable and what I hope would work well for our son-- because if we can make 50/50 and joint legal custody work, then that's best. I don't know how that will pan out with us. But before I made that offer, I consulted an excellent family therapist who saw me and my son regularly, as well as a handful of lawyers/experts in the area, and of course, my own attorney. I wish I could see the future, though.

 

My proposed agreement specifies that we'll each provide our son's clothes and belongings and daily expenses incurred while in our care. Also that we'll each pay half the medical expenses not covered by insurance. And there are other specifics that make it so that, if I only have him 50%, I should only be paying for 50% of his care. But I know I'm unable to foresee the contingencies very well. And I need to figure out what to do if H violates.

 

If H agrees but then violates the financial aspect of our agreement down the line, I may try an intermediate step before trying to litigate that in court: I may ask him to alter our agreement so I claim our son every year on taxes rather than every other year, and I have at least 51% of overnights so I can have pre-tax childcare deductions and some other benefits offered through my work and our government. That way, without paying for re-litigation, I could save the money he's unwilling or unable to pay for our child's care. But he'd still have to be financially responsible enough so that those changes would really save me the same amount of money that he was neglecting to provide. I've already done some calculations about how much those things would save me. (Preparation calms me.) So I can have a ready answer for him besides, "Yes, please walk all over me, and I'll assess the damage later."

 

But If my husband and his attorney see this as a haggling exercise, then I'd have been smarter to just offer zero spousal support and half of all our assets.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jakrbbt

[BetrayedH]

It might be worth it to specify reimbursement of shared incurred expenses. As an example, since my kids are older there is more than just medical/dental - there's girl scouts, boy scouts, summer camp, dance class, school costs (such as supplies, lab fees, etc). Our langauge just calls for receipts to be presented and "timely" reimbursement. In hindsight, I'd recommend a monthly reconciliation of shared expenses (on a certain date). I just add up the total costs we've incurred and divide in half to determine each parent's responsibility; when one has paid more than another then they're due a check. For the record, we've never asked each other for receipts. We also have a clause that if there isn't joint agreement on a shared expense, the parent that registered the child for the activity is fully responsible. This rarely comes up for us but has once or twice; my wife was insistent that the kids see a counselor (one that I didn't like for good reason so I opted out) and it gave me an opportunity to push back on some expensive summer camps my wife wanted. Medical and dental were not optional and either parent is authorized to take the kids at their discretion.

 

Anyway, just some things to consider.

[jakrbbt]

Well, he accepts or rejects my offer tomorrow.

 

Meanwhile New pressures art work. Lots of them.

 

I can't help but be nervous.

 

No sleep for me.

[ArtIsMyThing]

I shall keep you in my prayers - good luck

[Yasuandio]

Well, he accepts or rejects my offer tomorrow.

 

Meanwhile New pressures art work. Lots of them.

 

I can't help but be nervous.

 

No sleep for me.

 

Get to the MD for a sleeping pill. Make darn sure it ain't ant anti-covusant or anti-psy-chotic. Just a plain old seditive, period. Preverably, old style - no new crap that's come on the market. Trid and true.

 

You brain chemicals can get whacko missing sleep. You don't need that. Yas

[beach]

Get to the MD for a sleeping pill. Make darn sure it ain't ant anti-covusant or anti-psy-chotic. Just a plain old seditive, period. Preverably, old style - no new crap that's come on the market. Trid and true.

 

You brain chemicals can get whacko missing sleep. You don't need that. Yas

 

I disagree. Many of those sleeping meds make folks drowsy and hazy in their thinking.

 

Now isn't a good time to think without clarity.

 

If you're tired then try taking a quick nap on your lunch hour.

[jakrbbt]

I really appreciate all the support here--it helps a lot. This anticipation is so hard. I slept 4 hours, fell asleep listening to a fiction audio-book. I'm too nervous to be tired.

 

Wish I'd gotten the divorce finalized before the end of the year. Would have benefited probably both of us, tax-wise (unless h was hoping My taxes would pay his back-owed child support to first wife). I need to figure out whether I can claim head of household If we were separated and D filed, but not final, by the end of the year. My CPA unfortunately passed away.

 

H still sending messages that he misses me and is sad. I think he's angry that I left. It's not as though there wasn't plenty of warning and trying.

[jakrbbt]

Still no word either way. It's an hour before close of business.

 

And h had been texting me today asking that I help him figure out some tax/student loan form (he won't say exactly what for).

 

I get the sense he thinks he can hold this over my head, and imply that if I acquiesce to requests then maybe he'll accept my offer.

 

Meanwhile trial is 2 weeks away.

[ArtIsMyThing]

i'd go to trial and offer him nothing - i highly doubt he will get sole custody - more likely told by a judge to go to work

[kenmore]

Geez, you're about to have a court decision made tomorrow and he's asking you for help filling out a form? Just say no.

 

As for taxes, I have always done my own taxes, but not an expert. I don't think a legal sep changes anything, and I believe it has to do with if you were legally married more than half of last year (yes.)

 

You can always file separately, and that's what we're doing. You can't file "single" but you can file "married filing separately" which is very similar. He won't get any of your return if you are legally separated.

 

In my case, it works out well. My wife never shared much of her return (and she did earn the money, so that's fine with me), but this year I hardly made enough money to pay tax, and she has a huge capital gains liability. It was her idea to file separately, and she burned her own bridge since I was willing to file jointly. It stuck in her craw last year that my name and SS# were primary even though she made most of the money. Now she just shot herself in the foot to spite my name...whatever.

[beach]

I hope your standard answer to any of his requests is no!

 

He needs to grow the F up! He can learn how to fill out his own forms. He also knows how to ask his sister to do everything for him.

 

Don't help him with anything. Start letting him get used to doing things for himself.

 

Just say no. No is a complete sentence. And actually you don't even owe him any answer - you could ignore him... That would be more useful.