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Who "should" ask who out...


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Well consider this. Both of us have asked men out only to be stood up or used for sex. Ergo these men were not "dating" either of us. They used us.

 

Men don't date women that they are not attracted to but they may well use them for sex...

 

In general men will ask a woman out if he is attracted to her. So both of us prefer to be asked out by men who are attracted to us rather than asking men who may use the opportunity to use us... Its called self respect.

 

I am not attacking just pointing out that what you are saying is not in any way going to change her mind or increase her confidence to start asking chaps out. I think you both should be apologising to this lass for many of your comments. She is a human being even if you don't know her name.

 

So what you're saying is that men don't ask women out to only use them for sex?

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Verhrzn wanting to change her behavior pattern has nothing to do with having men ask her out first. Who asks out who first, has no impact on the outcome of a date. It is the person's established boundaries, self-respect, patience, and understanding that will determine that success.

 

The point that she was making is that she has never had success and while some have said yes it turns out they did not want to date her just to use her. So she changed her attitude to one where she believes that if a man is serious and wants to date her as a person he will ask. The rest of her time she is going to use up worrying about keeping herself fit, healthy, happy and not worrying about if she should or shouldn't ask in case he is going to use her.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I see absolutely nothing wrong with setting a boundary that states that you will only date people who show a clear intention - it can only be a good thing.

 

I am sure some men do but lets face it you can weed those out a bit depending on where you go and how they conduct themselves during the date.

 

At no point has she said its wrong for a woman to ask. She has just said that it is not for her and she does not want to and given her views, t which she is perfectly entitled. All this bickering and accusation throwing at her and her having to defend her self constantly has ruined what could have been a lively and interesting discussion. After reading all the bile you have been throwing at her I am surprised is anyone is reading this now.

 

She really does need an apology and you guys need to understand that some women do not want to be the one doing the asking so your just going to have to get up and do some of it yourselves.

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.

 

you guys need to understand that some women do not want to be the one doing the asking so your just going to have to get up and do some of it yourselves.

 

 

 

If a woman can't ask then clearly she isn't interested.

 

 

Do you see how that works both ways? Anything less than expressing how you feel inside is game playing.

 

 

If a girl likes a guy but is purposely waiting and waiting and waiting for him to ask her, she is playing games.

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If a woman can't ask then clearly she isn't interested.

 

 

Do you see how that works both ways? Anything less than expressing how you feel inside is game playing.

 

 

If a girl likes a guy but is purposely waiting and waiting and waiting for him to ask her, she is playing games.

 

EXPRESSING AN INTEREST AND ASKING SOMEONE OUT ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

 

If I put it in capital letters will it finally sink in?

 

Somehow I doubt it after the pages and pages and pages..... yawn...

 

If a girl expresses an interest and he doesn't ask her out it saves her time and she can move on. No hard feelings. Simple. no waiting or dripping about game playing, express, nothing doing, move on. Easy.

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EXPRESSING AN INTEREST AND ASKING SOMEONE OUT ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

 

If I put it in capital letters will it finally sink in?

 

Somehow I doubt it after the pages and pages and pages..... yawn...

 

If a girl expresses an interest and he doesn't ask her out it saves her time and she can move on. No hard feelings. Simple. no waiting or dripping about game playing, express, nothing doing, move on. Easy.

 

That actually IS game playing. You are trying to push him into doing something that you COULD be direct and forward with yourself, but you want to avoid it. Its certainly your right to do that, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

If a girl wants a date with a guy, its about 3 sentences away.

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Frank2thepoint
I see absolutely nothing wrong with setting a boundary that states that you will only date people who show a clear intention

 

You are correct, there is nothing wrong with this. But this posit is still independent of who asks out who first. A woman can easily ask a man out, that she has determined through conversation before the date, that his values and intentions align with hers.

 

 

All this bickering and accusation throwing at her and her having to defend her self constantly has ruined what could have been a lively and interesting discussion. After reading all the bile you have been throwing at her I am surprised is anyone is reading this now

 

From what I have read, no one has insulted anyone. It is still a discussion among members here, albeit heated, but everyone is stating their opinion respectfully.

 

 

She really does need an apology and you guys need to understand that some women do not want to be the one doing the asking so your just going to have to get up and do some of it yourselves.

 

You are correct that some women do not want to be the one asking, just like there are some men that prefer to ask, and initiate, all the time. But again, none of that will resolve the issue of having a successful relationship being produced as an outcome. If that is what she, or any woman, really wants.

 

 

If a girl expresses an interest and he doesn't ask her out it saves her time and she can move on. No hard feelings. Simple. no waiting or dripping about game playing, express, nothing doing, move on. Easy.

 

Many of the women that post on LS, complaining about how much a guy they like, but he hasn't made a move on her, says otherwise. They do have hard feelings. Same goes for men that post about women they like. In an ideal world, it would be great if your personal emotions can be easily controlled where you can just change them at will.

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If a woman can't ask then clearly she isn't interested.

 

 

Do you see how that works both ways? Anything less than expressing how you feel inside is game playing.

 

 

If a girl likes a guy but is purposely waiting and waiting and waiting for him to ask her, she is playing games.

 

It's not always just playing games.

 

In my case, if I like a guy, I'm likely to just pretend I dont, keep going on about life normally, and never ask him out. Not because I'm playing a game, not because I'm expecting HIM to do it, but because every approach I'd done before had been rejected, and it was embarassing and hurtful, and I'm convinced that is what will happen again, so I just keep suppressing that I like him and ignore it until it finally goes away.

 

Not a game at all. Just me being realistic.

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It's not always just playing games.

 

In my case, if I like a guy, I'm likely to just pretend I dont, keep going on about life normally, and never ask him out. Not because I'm playing a game, not because I'm expecting HIM to do it, but because every approach I'd done before had been rejected, and it was embarassing and hurtful, and I'm convinced that is what will happen again, so I just keep suppressing that I like him and ignore it until it finally goes away.

 

Not a game at all. Just me being realistic.

 

You and I are alike in so many ways. This is why I keep to myself. I might be lonely, but I'm okay with being alone, therefore I opt out. It sounds like that's what you are doing.

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boilingpoint
It's not always just playing games.

 

In my case, if I like a guy, I'm likely to just pretend I dont, keep going on about life normally, and never ask him out. Not because I'm playing a game, not because I'm expecting HIM to do it, but because every approach I'd done before had been rejected, and it was embarassing and hurtful, and I'm convinced that is what will happen again, so I just keep suppressing that I like him and ignore it until it finally goes away.

 

Not a game at all. Just me being realistic.

 

You're not being realistic here. You're just ruling yourself out before he even knows you're interested. Those emotions of hurt and embarrassment are part of life so it's just something you have to go through in terms of personal development. They are hard emotions though.

 

I realise we all walk around with baggage but exploring those desires and asserting yourself a bit would help you with self-awareness and character building, whether the guy in question is interested or not.

 

There's no harm in letting them know via flirting or whatever - why wouldn't he be flattered that you like him?

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There's no harm in letting them know via flirting or whatever - why wouldn't he be flattered that you like him?

 

In my experience, it is harmful. It never goes well. I Remember a time when I was flirting with a guy, in a friendly way, not overly intense, and finally one day he got irritated at me, told me to stop and just leave him alone. So I did. Never spoke to him again.

 

I'm much more okay with the option of neutral, saying and doing nothing when I like a guy, than being snapped at if I show interest, or rejected if I outright approach.

 

Keenly's post above sums it up well.

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boilingpoint
In my experience, it is harmful. It never goes well. I Remember a time when I was flirting with a guy, in a friendly way, not overly intense, and finally one day he got irritated at me, told me to stop and just leave him alone. So I did. Never spoke to him again.

 

I'm much more okay with the option of neutral, saying and doing nothing when I like a guy, than being snapped at if I show interest, or rejected if I outright approach.

 

Keenly's post above sums it up well.

 

OK, yeah someone reacting negatively like that definitely hurts and takes a while to get over. It has happened to me too, I know. I think that you shouldn't stop trying anyway.

 

There's an element of fake it till you make it with these things. So to change yourself you just have to suck it up and put yourself out there. Easier said than done but whatever the result you ALWAYS come out with an experience to learn from.

 

Assert yourself and you'll learn about yourself.

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In my experience, it is harmful. It never goes well. I Remember a time when I was flirting with a guy, in a friendly way, not overly intense, and finally one day he got irritated at me, told me to stop and just leave him alone. So I did. Never spoke to him again.

 

I'm much more okay with the option of neutral, saying and doing nothing when I like a guy, than being snapped at if I show interest, or rejected if I outright approach.

 

Keenly's post above sums it up well.

 

Basically what Keenly and Phone said is the reason why I only asked out two woman so far this year. One completely ignored me and the other rejected me.

 

Both was former coworkers as well.

 

Like Keenly, I am picky in those that I want to date. I prefer a woman that has no tattoos and doesn't smoke, which removes at least 50-70% of the women around me. Add to that mind games (which I have no tolerance for) and whether or not she is single, actually looking, and is interested in me and you can see my chances of getting into a relationship to be close to zero as possible.

 

I also noticed women don't take kindly to guys they aren't interested in approaching them. Even speaking to them normally would get me cussed out from time to time.

 

Do I blame women for not asking out guys? Definitely not. I don't blame them at all. If I was a woman, I rather get used to being single than try to get into a relationship with a guy.

 

However, since I am a guy, I only take the risk only with women that I do have interest in, which is like maybe 5 women a year.

 

So I have little reason to ask women out either with such a weak selection available, at least in my eyes.

 

To me, men and women is both equals. I can see both sides of this situation and I don't blame either of them for not bothering.

 

So frankly, I don't see why we are continuing this fiasco. It is clear neither side will accept the reasoning of the other side.

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To me, men and women is both equals. I can see both sides of this situation and I don't blame either of them for not bothering.

 

You see you have had the same experience as I have only you haven't had the added "being used for sex" added in there.

 

Reading on some of the reactions that both men and women have had, I perhaps think that the problem is not so much who is approaching whom more that there appears to be a general lack of manners which is crushing all sides involved.

 

Its all very good and well saying we are not in the 18th century any more however they had "rules" about how to conduct yourself with such matters to ensure the dignity of both parties was kept in tact no matter the outcome whereas these days it seems you can bandy around saying anything you like about anyone...

 

I have already said several pages ago that there is no right or wrong answer as it is all personal preference and there also seems to be no correlation between characteristics of the people involved either (as askee or asker) so if you are going to ask you just have to suck it and see... If you are going to wait for the other to ask you just have to suck it and see... Its a decision we all have to make.

 

As for game playing thats on my list of no go's...

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boilingpoint
I also noticed women don't take kindly to guys they aren't interested in approaching them. Even speaking to them normally would get me cussed out from time to time.

 

Do I blame women for not asking out guys? Definitely not. I don't blame them at all. If I was a woman, I rather get used to being single than try to get into a relationship with a guy.

 

However, since I am a guy, I only take the risk only with women that I do have interest in, which is like maybe 5 women a year.

 

The question is whether it should always be up to the guy to be direct with his interest or if there's flexibility in the traditional gender roles.

 

I say both men and women should be direct with their interest if they want to be. And if she asks a guy out doesn't necessarily mean he can't offer to buy the drinks or whatever if that's what makes him comfortable.

 

I say there shouldn't be any 'rules' and people should just play it by ear. That's all really.

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The question is whether it should always be up to the guy to be direct with his interest or if there's flexibility in the traditional gender roles.

 

I say both men and women should be direct with their interest if they want to be. And if she asks a guy out doesn't necessarily mean he can't offer to buy the drinks or whatever if that's what makes him comfortable.

 

I say there shouldn't be any 'rules' and people should just play it by ear. That's all really.

 

My sentiments exactly. It shouldn't be any one sexes job to make something happen.

 

 

Pursue your own happiness. Don't wait for it to pursue you.

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Pursue your own happiness. Don't wait for it to pursue you.

 

Truer words have never been said....makes you wonder if people do the same when it comes to employment i.e. expecting it to just fall on their lap? The thing is nobody said it was going to be easy, and even life isn't easy.

 

Those of us that persevere in life, have something going for us over those that give up after 1, 2, 3 tries. No point crying wolf after...eh

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Gaius - the question is not about pursuing its about who should ask who out... Pursuing is for anyone!! ;) As per the example we can make it very bluntly clear while still allowing the chaps to ask!

I get the vibe the vast majority of women are way more turned on when the guy pursues than when they have to do it. I've seen donni talk about her first husband more than her current so I'm curious if that's what happened in that case.

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perhaps think that the problem is not so much who is approaching whom more that there appears to be a general lack of manners which is crushing all sides involved.

 

THIS.

 

I'm all for either gender approaching all they want, and no one should put expectations on anyone to do so, the only expectation I DO have, is that people really oughta be less rude about it.

 

I hear about how nasty some women act to getting approached and think it's awful. I would NEVER act like that. I've rejected only twice, and was polite about it. Similarly, in my cases of getting rejected, it was nearly always rude or insulting. What did anyone gain from that?! No reason for it. Ugh.

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In my case, if I like a guy, I'm likely to just pretend I dont, keep going on about life normally, and never ask him out.

 

And this is exactly why dating is so hard.

 

No you don't have to ask the guy out, but please somehow let him know that you are interested.

 

Most guys have a very hard time telling if a girl likes them. I certainly have no clue.

 

Even if I'm physically attracted to a girl, I won't ask her out unless I think there is a chance she might like me. If I'm attracted to a girl, and I get the impression from her that she's interested in me, I'm going to ask her out right away.

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No you don't have to ask the guy out, but please somehow let him know that you are interested.
Voice of reason, and the mostly logical thing any decent person should do. However, some people just think it's their divine right to be asked.

 

Hopefully it's not too late for these people to rectify this deficiency because they are the ones that end up in their late 40s and 40s, and wonder why those in their age group are going after the young ones.

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And this is exactly why dating is so hard.

 

No you don't have to ask the guy out, but please somehow let him know that you are interested.

 

Most guys have a very hard time telling if a girl likes them. I certainly have no clue.

 

Even if I'm physically attracted to a girl, I won't ask her out unless I think there is a chance she might like me. If I'm attracted to a girl, and I get the impression from her that she's interested in me, I'm going to ask her out right away.

 

If I show signs of interest, they go unnoticed, or the guy just doesn't care. If I dial it up and actually flirt, I get a negative reaction, get told to knock it off. I literally have NEVER gotten a positive reaction to showing interest or approaching a guy. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result.

 

This is why I've found im best off just being normal and friendly towards all people, it prevents that negative backlash from those times when I would dial it up a bit.

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If I show signs of interest, they go unnoticed, or the guy just doesn't care

Odds are the guy doesn't notice. Which seems to be the case according to your next point.

 

 

. If I dial it up and actually flirt, I get a negative reaction, get told to knock it off. I literally have NEVER gotten a positive reaction to showing interest or approaching a guy. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result.

 

How many times has that actually happened? That you've made it a point to flirt with a guy to the level that he can tell that you were flirting. And out of how many times have you received a negative reaction?

 

This is why I've found im best off just being normal and friendly towards all people, it prevents that negative backlash from those times when I would dial it up a bit.

 

And that's why you've been single for so long, before you tried to do OLD. Odds are guys simply assumed that you were not interested in them. Most guys don't like getting rejected, so they don't ask out women they feel they have no chance with.

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How many times has that actually happened? That you've made it a point to flirt with a guy to the level that he can tell that you were flirting. And out of how many times have you received a negative reaction?

 

And that's why you've been single for so long, before you tried to do OLD. Odds are guys simply assumed that you were not interested in them. Most guys don't like getting rejected, so they don't ask out women they feel they have no chance with.

 

I don't have an exact number for the amount of times I dialed it up and was bold in showing my interest. Bold enough that the guy was aware. I'd say it's less than 10 times? Every single instance got a negative reaction. So I stopped doing that.

 

I'd still be friendly towards everyone, but would not be aggressive in showing interest. If 10/10 attempts failed, why would I keep trying that?

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If 10/10 attempts failed, why would I keep trying that?

 

10/10 failure is just bad technique. Try it differently. Since you are friendly with everyone, maybe they just couldn't work out if you are just being friendly.

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I don't have an exact number for the amount of times I dialed it up and was bold in showing my interest. Bold enough that the guy was aware. I'd say it's less than 10 times? Every single instance got a negative reaction. So I stopped doing that.

 

I'd still be friendly towards everyone, but would not be aggressive in showing interest. If 10/10 attempts failed, why would I keep trying that?

 

What were you actually doing to flirt?

 

I seriously can't imagine guys giving a negative reaction to a girl who is flirting. Especially if the girl was at least average.

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