Who "should" ask who out...

[Phoe]

10/10 failure is just bad technique. Try it differently. Since you are friendly with everyone, maybe they just couldn't work out if you are just being friendly.

 

No, the failure wasn't from me being friendly, being friendly is mmy normal everyday behavior. The failure came from dialing it up and being obvious. When you're being forward enough to get an actual rejection, you're not stuck in a case of "they couldnt figure out whether you were just being nice". Asking a guy to join you for dinner and drinks and him saying "no", is not a case of subtle lost signals.

 

SD, one example would be above. Another might be complimenting a guy, telling him he's attractive. The time when the guy snapped at me and told me to stop it and leave him alone came from me walking up to him and complimenting him on a hat I thought he looked particularly handsome in. Perhaps he was having a bad day and reacted harshly, but there's no doubting he was not interested in having me flirt with him.

 

Edit to add, I agree that I surely have bad technique though.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Phoe

[LoneIsland]

No, the failure wasn't from me being friendly, being friendly is mmy normal everyday behavior. The failure came from dialing it up and being obvious. When you're being forward enough to get an actual rejection, you're not stuck in a case of "they couldnt figure out whether you were just being nice". Asking a guy to join you for dinner and drinks and him saying "no", is not a case of subtle lost signals.

 

SD, one example would be above. Another might be complimenting a guy, telling him he's attractive. The time when the guy snapped at me and told me to stop it and leave him alone came from me walking up to him and complimenting him on a hat I thought he looked particularly handsome in. Perhaps he was having a bad day and reacted harshly, but there's no doubting he was not interested in having me flirt with him.

 

Edit to add, I agree that I surely have bad technique though.

 

Well the snapping reaction seems odd. Did you know the person ?

 

As for the drinks rejection, I have done plenty of that myself when younger. It took me quite a while to work out the meaning of that. So the no to drinks may not be rejections, maybe they didn't get it.

 

Just because something seems obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to all of the guys. Some may get it, some may not.

 

Maybe when you want to chase the next guy, you can start a thread. If I am still around, I will be happy to give you a hand.

 

The 10/10 are not all failures. Half of those are probably just missed signals.

[somedude81]

No, the failure wasn't from me being friendly, being friendly is mmy normal everyday behavior. The failure came from dialing it up and being obvious. When you're being forward enough to get an actual rejection, you're not stuck in a case of "they couldnt figure out whether you were just being nice". Asking a guy to join you for dinner and drinks and him saying "no", is not a case of subtle lost signals.

 

SD, one example would be above. Another might be complimenting a guy, telling him he's attractive. The time when the guy snapped at me and told me to stop it and leave him alone came from me walking up to him and complimenting him on a hat I thought he looked particularly handsome in. Perhaps he was having a bad day and reacted harshly, but there's no doubting he was not interested in having me flirt with him.

 

Edit to add, I agree that I surely have bad technique though.

 

Unless a guy is already really interested, straight up asking him out isn't a good idea. That's also not flirting.

 

Did you know the guy you complimented on his hat? Or was he a stranger that you walked up to? Do you at all remember what you said to him?

 

When I talk about flirting, I specifically mean with somebody I have some sort of rapport with. I wouldn't go up to a girl and tell her she has a pretty dress. But after we've spoken for a bit and she seems to be enjoying my conversation, then I'll start the flirting. I'm not a master flirter so I don't go hard right away.

 

I'd be more than happy to practice flirting with you. For you Phoe, I'd charge my friends and family rate

[Phoe]

Well the snapping reaction seems odd. Did you know the person ?

 

As for the drinks rejection, I have done plenty of that myself when younger. It took me quite a while to work out the meaning of that. So the no to drinks may not be rejections, maybe they didn't get it.

 

Just because something seems obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to all of the guys. Some may get it, some may not.

 

Maybe when you want to chase the next guy, you can start a thread. If I am still around, I will be happy to give you a hand.

 

The 10/10 are not all failures. Half of those are probably just missed signals.

 

Yeah I knew the snapper for a few years. He was in my social circle but wasn't a friend. He was single. I'd been flirting with him for a few weeks when he snapped.

 

If me asking a guy out solo for dinner and drinks is not enough then I'm Outta luck cause it doesn't get any bolder than that for me, haha.

 

Hopefully I won't ever need to post a thread asking for advice on getting a date again. I did in the past and got a lot of advice, most of which led me to OLD. But if I were ever back in the dating game, I think I'd like to try the old fashioned way, before going to OLD again.

[Phoe]

Unless a guy is already really interested, straight up asking him out isn't a good idea. That's also not flirting.

 

see this is the kind of thing I never would've thought about.

[Toodaloo]

see this is the kind of thing I never would've thought about.

 

And why I prefer to let them make their own minds up and ask me instead

[LoneIsland]

Yeah I knew the snapper for a few years. He was in my social circle but wasn't a friend. He was single. I'd been flirting with him for a few weeks when he snapped.

 

If me asking a guy out solo for dinner and drinks is not enough then I'm Outta luck cause it doesn't get any bolder than that for me, haha.

 

Hopefully I won't ever need to post a thread asking for advice on getting a date again. I did in the past and got a lot of advice, most of which led me to OLD. But if I were ever back in the dating game, I think I'd like to try the old fashioned way, before going to OLD again.

 

Ok, the snapper wasn't into you but you didn't see it.

 

I don't see the problem being the boldness. You are probably bolder than many guys. Maybe you are just into guys who are not into you. What about the guys who are into you, those who approach you, did you reject them ?

 

You shouldn't give up dating. You are not an unattractive woman, with some practice you can easily get a guy. Dating sites should work quite well because there are always guys doing the chasing. That eliminates the risk of chasing people who are not interested.

 

Would you consider yourself being a tomboy ? This is not a criticism or a judgement. You have lots of guy friends and into playing computer games. So I would place you tomboy'ish. Women who are into doing guy things can be very appealing to guys, except you have to be feminine - not necessarily sissy feminine but unmistakably womanly. It is your femininity that attracts men on an instinct level. So making yourself more womanly is important. Sharing interests with guys is a very good bonus, but this is of secondary importance. The priority has to be that way.

[love1336x]

I never ask a man out. Ever.

This army man who I was talking to, one time told me. "I have always liked you. I wish we could have went on a date." Now keep in mind he's back in the states. He wasn't going anywhere for a while from what he told me. We used to work at the same job before he joined the army.

I responded, "well we can still go out"

Then he told me, "but sweetie I'm a military man. No woman wants that"

 

I said, "okay"

Him: "what that's it??!!! Your not gonna keep trying?"

Ever since then I dislike that feeling, so I don't ask men out.

 

I believed some men not all, want a woman to chase, to play that annoying a$$ game.

[Keenly]

 

I believed some men not all, want a woman to chase, to play that annoying a$$ game.

 

 

 

How is wanting some one to be honest about their emotions a game?

[LoneIsland]

How is wanting some one to be honest about their emotions a game?

 

The idea is that when a girl asks for something, the guy has to snap to attention. If he doesn't or didn't catch the signal, then he's playing a game.

[boilingpoint]

I never ask a man out. Ever.

This army man who I was talking to, one time told me. "I have always liked you. I wish we could have went on a date." Now keep in mind he's back in the states. He wasn't going anywhere for a while from what he told me. We used to work at the same job before he joined the army.

I responded, "well we can still go out"

Then he told me, "but sweetie I'm a military man. No woman wants that"

 

I said, "okay"

Him: "what that's it??!!! Your not gonna keep trying?"

Ever since then I dislike that feeling, so I don't ask men out.

 

I believed some men not all, want a woman to chase, to play that annoying a$$ game.

 

Er you didn't ask him out... he made the first move by saying he 'always liked you' and you met him half-way by suggesting you go out. I think you were both playing games here and he was gaging your interest level.

 

Personally I can't stand dating a girl who openly shows indifference anyway. It's really stupid and genuinely insulting.

Edited October 10, 2014 by boilingpoint

[Phoe]

Ok, the snapper wasn't into you but you didn't see it.

 

I don't see the problem being the boldness. You are probably bolder than many guys. Maybe you are just into guys who are not into you. What about the guys who are into you, those who approach you, did you reject them ?

 

Would you consider yourself being a tomboy ? This is not a criticism or a judgement. You have lots of guy friends and into playing computer games. So I would place you tomboy'ish.

 

I've only rejected 2 guys. I've accepted all others, which was about 6 or 7. One was rejected because I was already seeing someone, the other because he asked me out in a sleazy way.

 

Yeah I'm tomboyish, but still slightly feminine. I'm certainly not girly, but still maintain a level of femininity. Men who want a super girly high heels nails done kind of girl won't want me, but that's fine because I'll never want to be that girl. I'm groomed, clean, and "polished" so to speak, without being fancy. Low maintenance, simple, without being man-ish.

[shinealight]

I would be very confident to ask but will be afraid to hear the no, not ready, or I do not want to date you. Like I have heard from someone who I asked where are we going. You just have to let go of your'e fear and do it. Yes you may get nocked down but you will know you have the confidence to do it again.

[LoneIsland]

I've only rejected 2 guys. I've accepted all others, which was about 6 or 7. One was rejected because I was already seeing someone, the other because he asked me out in a sleazy way.

 

Yeah I'm tomboyish, but still slightly feminine. I'm certainly not girly, but still maintain a level of femininity. Men who want a super girly high heels nails done kind of girl won't want me, but that's fine because I'll never want to be that girl. I'm groomed, clean, and "polished" so to speak, without being fancy. Low maintenance, simple, without being man-ish.

 

Sounds like you are doing ok getting guys to approach you.

 

For you to succeed in approaching a guy, the guy has to have some interest in you. Also a single approach may not be enough. It might take a whiles for the guy to realise there was an approach and regret for not taking it on. Then he will become more interested when there is a second approach. If approach, wait a couple of weeks, approach again doesn't work then the guy is either not interested or absolutely not getting it. In either case, it's a lost cause. I think both men and women fail in their approaches because they expect the other party to pick it up immediately.

 

I have come across some very appealing tomboys who "get" the men stuff, and completely comfortable with men. If they dial up their feminine side, they'd be unstoppable in attracting men.

[Phoe]

Sounds like you are doing ok getting guys to approach you.

 

I have come across some very appealing tomboys who "get" the men stuff, and completely comfortable with men. If they dial up their feminine side, they'd be unstoppable in attracting men.

 

I've been approached 8 or 9 times, which is about once a year. Not terrible, but in the past I did wish men would approach me more.

 

I see what you mean about the necessity of a second approach though. Not sure I'd ever feel bold enough to try that in the future, but who knows.

 

I really don't want to dial up the feminine side though. If I did, I'd be attracting the wrong types for me, not to mention I can't picture that helping me, I'd imagine it would hurt me. Guys always talk about wanting their women to be low maintenance and simple and not so prissy, if I dialed up the femininity I'd start getting into that high maintenance prissy territory that is totally not me. I feel like men would dislike that.

[LoneIsland]

I've been approached 8 or 9 times, which is about once a year. Not terrible, but in the past I did wish men would approach me more.

 

I see what you mean about the necessity of a second approach though. Not sure I'd ever feel bold enough to try that in the future, but who knows.

 

I really don't want to dial up the feminine side though. If I did, I'd be attracting the wrong types for me, not to mention I can't picture that helping me, I'd imagine it would hurt me. Guys always talk about wanting their women to be low maintenance and simple and not so prissy, if I dialed up the femininity I'd start getting into that high maintenance prissy territory that is totally not me. I feel like men would dislike that.

 

Once a year seems low. But now you know what to do if you want to dial that up.

 

Men don't have a problem with maintenance so long as it is within their affordability. Since you are aware of this aspect of men, you can always assure them early on in dating that you can tolerate low maintenance. So even if you seem higher maintenance, they'd still be OK with it because they know you are willing to go to the level they feel comfortable with.

 

Femininity doesn't have to cost a great deal. You can add a flowery dress, or tie up your hair as if you are planning to do some heavy cleaning. Little things like these can add a great deal of femininity. You could also wear higher heels intermittently. If you walk clumsily in them and look like you are going to fall over any minute, your vulnerability will induce the protective instincts in men. When they are protective, they will feel attraction for you. You don't have to be feminine all of the time, just occasionally to remind men you can be a sexy woman.

[Tayken]

Femininity doesn't have to cost a great deal. You can add a flowery dress, or tie up your hair as if you are planning to do some heavy cleaning. Little things like these can add a great deal of femininity.

 

Speaking of which........

 

As reported in i-D magazine last week, male celebrities – including John Legend and Joseph Gordon-Levitt – have been coming forward recently to declare themselves feminists. Plenty of male writers have already done so, not only declaring that they agree with certain feminist arguments, but that they themselves are feminists. Not just sympathetic to the cause, but fully-paid-up members of the club.

 

I’ll put my hands up on this one: I would never claim to be a feminist. Not because I don’t believe in what feminism stands for, but because I’m terrified that I have absolutely no idea what I’m talking about.

 

Is it even possible for a man to be a feminist? And are there women out there who actually hate it whenever a man says he is one?

[LoneIsland]

Femininity is about wearing bras. Feminism is about burning bras. I don't see the connection.

 

If the question is do I believe there are bra burning men ? Yes I imagine so. As long as they buy their own bras to burn, I see no problem with it.

[Phoe]

Once a year seems low. But now you know what to do if you want to dial that up.

 

Men don't have a problem with maintenance so long as it is within their affordability. Since you are aware of this aspect of men, you can always assure them early on in dating that you can tolerate low maintenance. So even if you seem higher maintenance, they'd still be OK with it because they know you are willing to go to the level they feel comfortable with.

 

Femininity doesn't have to cost a great deal. You can add a flowery dress, or tie up your hair as if you are planning to do some heavy cleaning. Little things like these can add a great deal of femininity. You could also wear higher heels intermittently. If you walk clumsily in them and look like you are going to fall over any minute, your vulnerability will induce the protective instincts in men. When they are protective, they will feel attraction for you. You don't have to be feminine all of the time, just occasionally to remind men you can be a sexy woman.

 

I don't see affordability being relevant. I buy everything of my own, myself. If a man is broke, it's not relevant. Me being low maintenance isn't about money, it's about preference. I keep hair and makeup simple, and own few clothes and shoes. I only own what fits well and looks nice. If I don't love it and would only wear it a few times, I don't buy it.

 

Dresses aren't really practical. I work a physically demanding job involving a lot of heavy lifting and powertools, 50 hours a week. Not about to come home after all of that and put on a dress. If it's a day off, warm out, and I'm going somewhere in particular, I'll put on a dress, but that's probably maybe 2-3 times a year. A dress in winter is a big no.

 

 

Can't wear heels, not because I'm clumsy in them, used to walk just fine, but I have a torn ligament in my right ankle, and no cartilage in my left knee, so anything but flat shoes is just asking for another injury.

 

Men who think dresses and heels are the only way to be sexy, won't like me, and aren't for me anyway. The kind of guy who thinks I'm sexy in jeans and a white shirt, or when I'm covered in dirt and mud or motor oil, that's the guy for me.

[Scrab22]

Both should.

I try not to play along with "nature" and "instincts". I want a mindful relationship, so it must include some decent equality.

[Frank2thepoint]

Guys always talk about wanting their women to be low maintenance and simple and not so prissy, if I dialed up the femininity I'd start getting into that high maintenance prissy territory that is totally not me. I feel like men would dislike that.

 

I agree with this. It is true that there is a perception that once a woman begins dressing up really nice, such as heels and dresses, the image conveys high maintenance. Even if the woman is comfortable in such attire, as opposed to jeans, t-shirt, and sneakers, there is a perception portrayed by an undertone from various media. Women that dress up nice are considered sophisticated. Proof is in the countless women's magazines that peddle this.

 

 

Femininity doesn't have to cost a great deal. You can add a flowery dress, or tie up your hair as if you are planning to do some heavy cleaning. Little things like these can add a great deal of femininity. You could also wear higher heels intermittently. If you walk clumsily in them and look like you are going to fall over any minute, your vulnerability will induce the protective instincts in men. When they are protective, they will feel attraction for you. You don't have to be feminine all of the time, just occasionally to remind men you can be a sexy woman.

 

And proof that men buy into it as well, expecting a woman to change, to show more femininity, in order to attract more suitors. I now see why Toodaloo thinks that men don't look beyond physical beauty, nor are attracted by a woman's personality.

[Phoe]

And proof that men buy into it as well, expecting a woman to change, to show more femininity, in order to attract more suitors. I now see why Toodaloo thinks that men don't look beyond physical beauty, nor are attracted by a woman's personality.

 

Yeah, I find it boggling that the solution to my past dating woes of not getting asked out, or getting rejected when I do the asking, would've been to put on a dress and heels. And teeter around in those heels like I'm about to fall and watch the men flock to catch me

[LoneIsland]

I now see why Toodaloo thinks that men don't look beyond physical beauty, nor are attracted by a woman's personality.

 

But 95% of the women are considered beautiful by men. So where is the problem ? For that small 5%, it's just tough luck. A far larger % than that of men are disregarded by women.

 

For that 95% beautiful women, their personalities are perfectly fine.

[LoneIsland]

Yeah, I find it boggling that the solution to my past dating woes of not getting asked out, or getting rejected when I do the asking, would've been to put on a dress and heels. And teeter around in those heels like I'm about to fall and watch the men flock to catch me

 

Men are willing to catch you. But you refuse to let them do the catching. Hmmm, where could the problem be ?

[Phoe]

Men are willing to catch you. But you refuse to let them do the catching. Hmmm, where could the problem be ?

 

I am a clumsy person. I trip, lose my balance, and fall sometimes. I've never been caught. Mostly men laugh hysterically when it happens. No one is bolting to catch me.