Your thoughts, learned friends...?

[sylviaguardian]

For those who don't know me (the rest can skip this bit!) - my H had an 'emotional affair' with his work colleauge spanning 16 months. It consisted mainly of constant texting, hugging at work, a few kisses etc. He stopped 'contact' with her last September although they still work together (i.e. he told her no more personal interaction, work-related only). He has expressed remorse and has tried to be a better husband.

 

Some days I can just get on with my life and accept that it has happened. Other days (like yesterday) It's like a monster suddenly rears its head and grabs me. I am haunted by the thought that it was more than an emotional affair. There are a few things that still really bug me.

 

After it all came out I went through his things on the computer etc. I would say that 3 out of 5 work emails I didn't like (had things like 'hi sexy', kisses, special words or sayings etc). The only e-mail that I found that she had sent to his home address was kind of work related, but was signed off "Thanks for absolutely everything - compliant toy". Now I am not stupid, I know what the implied meaning is here. I have been too embarrassed to post this here, because I know what the reaction will be.

 

I have asked my H again and again to explain this and he either says he can't remember, it was too long ago or that she was just being provocative. At one point he even suggested that he would ask her what it had meant LOL!I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall. He will never tell me. The only conclusion that I can draw is that the explanation IS that he was having a sexual relationship with her and that's why he can't explain it out of context.

 

I am 100% certain that if he did have a sexual relationship with her that he would never tell me. Why would he? What do I do now? Do I believe his story that he has said again and again and put the doubts to the back of my mind? Do I accept that they probably had sexual contact and try to deal with that? What do I do? I feel like I am trapped.

 

Please don't tell me to sit down and ask him for the truth - I have tried that, he sticks 100% by his story, although I will say that the way he always backs up this statement is by saying when could they have done anything? They were at work all day and he never came home late. Another bit to add here is that one night, along time ago he came home at 6 am after a work night out. He swears that he went back to some other friends who lived out of town and they were drinking after being in a nightclub. He swears that she wasn't even there on that night out.

 

Please throw me a line here. I feel like I am going insane...

 

Syl

[Mr Spock]

Based on what you've said it's entirely possible they had a sexual relationship and he's downplaying it. Blowjobs are easy enough to give on a lunch hour.

 

 

Cheaters are liars too.

 

 

Don't count on the truth from her either. If she's carrying a torch for him in ANY way she'll lie about the involvement. If she's married herself she'll lie. If she's afraid of any kind of repercussion, she'll lie. I don't lie, because I'm a terrible liar. Have been all "lied" out for years, just can't do it anymore.

 

People who cheat fudge on details for a reason. It's more acceptable to you that he had an "emotional" affair rather than a physical one.

 

He remembers just fine. The excitement of it all would prevent his memory from fogging those details over so quickly. Take it from someone who's been in his shoes, not remembering is a cop out so he doesn't have to go through the agony of your wrath.

 

When cheating is found out, a cheater thinks on his toes. That is, he concocts the story of least resistance and sticks to it no matter what. He knows you, knows you well and has a pretty good idea of what you can and can't handle. What you would be able to accept and not.

 

Even when you're willing to work through and move on they STILL won't admit to the truth-that's his story and he's sticking to it.

 

You are detail obsessesd-while he would rather not go into it.

 

What you need to ask yourself is "Can I go on, not knowing if he's ever been fully honest with me?" Is this going to come back years down the road and bite you in the arse?

 

 

It's pretty obvious to me that there was a good chance that the flirting was consumated-what kind of man with a wife stays out until 6am and doesn't include his wife? Being also the one your husband would have stayed out with I can tell you a man is up to no good if he comes home that much later than the bar closes.

 

It is not your fault. It is not your fault for WANTING to believe. The odds are against him though.

 

Can you forgive and move on without the whole truth?

 

Thought I'd also add that the chances of a flirtation that progressed to physical contact like kissing NOT progessing to some kind of sexual act is kind of poor.

 

I hope things improve for you.

[Mr Spock]

although I will say that the way he always backs up this statement is by saying when could they have done anything? They were at work all day and he never came home late.

 

Honestly, this one little bit that he says right there to me suggests that he feels his no boinking alibi is airtight. Which means he's lying. I'm more cynical than most people, but that's just my opinion. The fact that he's stating he never had the opportunity to boink her (lie) doesn't make it any better.

 

 

 

 

I am 100% certain that if he did have a sexual relationship with her that he would never tell me. Why would he? What do I do now? Do I believe his story that he has said again and again and put the doubts to the back of my mind? Do I accept that they probably had sexual contact and try to deal with that? What do I do? I feel like I am trapped.

 

See here's the crux of the matter-does it REALLY make it any more acceptable that he claims they never had sex? In your mind, it does. But it shouldn't.

 

 

There is a similar thread to this, bubble something and I'll try to find it. Because I said the same things. Basically, you can take as long as you want to deal with this. And in a year from now you decide you can't be married to him that's YOUR choice. Don't feel pressured to recover from this in a time frame, although it may be frustrating to your husband if he's truly committed and remorseful he'll understand that.

[latesleeper]

Syl,

 

I'm real sorry to hear how much you're hurting.

I have also asked myself what'd I do if my H went so far.

I already have a big trust issue. As I think you have.

Try counselling? I would. I would also try to get H to speak up in counselling?

Try to work towards understanding. Then see if gets to acceptance.

 

Take good care. Let us know how you are.

[Cecelius]

I tend to trust in gut feelings and if your gut is that he hasn't been honest with you to this point, if nothing else, either you're still working it out (and why shouldn't you be? Its a big issue), he's not doing what a wayward spouse should to "backfill" the trust (maybe he's told you everything but he's now just waiting for you to get over it) or there's more to it than that.

[Owl]

Syl-

 

Basically, I think at this point you're going to have to decide what you're willing to live with. Your gut is telling you that there's more to the story than your husband is telling you. And you've learned to trust your gut, given all that's happened so far.

 

Your husband is insistent that nothing further happened, and has continued to maintain that story. You're not buying it, or you wouldn't be asking the question here.

 

So, are you willing to live with this how it is, and let it go, or do you need to change how you live? To me this boils down to you either making the choice to say it doesn't matter, it's in the past, it won't happen again, and let it go.......or.....you decide that this is a marriage buster. If you're convinced he's not telling the truth, does that constitute grounds to end your marriage? Or do you need to just make the choice to let it go?

 

Your call friend. Good luck!

[Ladyjane14]

I'm in agreement with Mr Spock and Owl. You might NEVER get the whole truth. And even if you did, you might not ever feel like you've had it.

 

Originally posted by Owl

So, are you willing to live with this how it is, and let it go, or do you need to change how you live? To me this boils down to you either making the choice to say it doesn't matter, it's in the past, it won't happen again, and let it go.......or.....you decide that this is a marriage buster. If you're convinced he's not telling the truth, does that constitute grounds to end your marriage?

 

It's your decision....and there's no rush to make it. Take whatever time you need.

 

 

p.s. I don't know if this will help you, but in my situation, I've allowed myself to have belief and faith in my NEW husband....the husband who has grown and evolved after having put some work into his relationship. I let the old wayward husband go, and accepted the new and improved one whole-heartedly.

[sylviaguardian]

Thanks for the advice and support. I think what some of you have said is right. I will never get the truth. My gut instinct is telling me that not only am I married to a cheater, I'm married to a liar. I think I might have been able to live with the cheating bit, but not the lying bit.

 

Dr Spock - you are right when you say that he knows what I can handle and what I can't. I could handle the emotional affair bit but I couldn't handle the full-blown thing. He knows if he tells me he will blow it. The way I see it now is that it doesn't really matter either way, because I have a good idea of what went on.

 

Even if he came out now and told me the truth I am not sure that it would make any difference. Either way the damage is done. I know there are people on this site who have managed to get over affairs; I don't think I am one of them. To me, it's too big a thing to move on from.

 

I feel very sad today because I guess it's today that I've realised it is really over. The dream I've wanted all my life of a nuclear family was only short-lived. I am not going to rush into any decisions but I think I am going to start preparing to live my own life now.

 

Thanks for all the help and support,

Sylvia

[ThumbingMyWay]

Syl,

 

I know you have been through alot.....and I wish I could give advice on what you should do. But after what I am experiencing.....

 

I finaly realize that I cannot make any decisions for anyone.....only YOU know what is best for YOU.

[whichwayisup]

You might NEVER get the whole truth. And even if you did, you might not ever feel like you've had it.

Seems either way you need closure to move on from this. I agree with the above statement. He answers that for you it leads you to more questions and more doors open...More confusion and more pain for you.

 

Assume the worst yet hope for the best.

 

Hope you find some peace soon and ease your mind so you can let go and move on.

[uberfrau]

You can ask leading questions, out of blue, like, "so how many times did she suck your cock?" Or "so what motel did you do the dirty at?"

 

This catches them off guard.

 

How would feel about the following conversation, if it were to happen?

 

Syl- Did you sleep with her??

 

Husband-yes, i admit it-we did it about 60 times. I lied to you about it cause I could n't stand to hurt you more than I already have!

 

Imagine him admitting this to you. How do you think you'd feel? Better, worse, or the same? Would you leave or stay?

[latesleeper]

Syl,

 

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

Thanks for the advice and support. I think what some of you have said is right. I will never get the truth. My gut instinct is telling me that not only am I married to a cheater, I'm married to a liar. I think I might have been able to live with the cheating bit, but not the lying bit.

 

Dr Spock - you are right when you say that he knows what I can handle and what I can't. I could handle the emotional affair bit but I couldn't handle the full-blown thing. He knows if he tells me he will blow it. The way I see it now is that it doesn't really matter either way, because I have a good idea of what went on.

 

Even if he came out now and told me the truth I am not sure that it would make any difference. Either way the damage is done. I know there are people on this site who have managed to get over affairs; I don't think I am one of them. To me, it's too big a thing to move on from.

 

I feel very sad today because I guess it's today that I've realised it is really over. The dream I've wanted all my life of a nuclear family was only short-lived. I am not going to rush into any decisions but I think I am going to start preparing to live my own life now.

 

Thanks for all the help and support,

Sylvia

 

My heart goes out to you. I understand what you mean about not being able to live with lying and affairs being too big a thing to move on from.

Right now, it sounds as if you're in some trauma, so it's good you're not going to rush into any decisions but take your time to feel out how you're going to proceed.

It's a day-to-day struggle, but the great thing is you're working towards a good life for yourself.

Take care.

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by ThumbingMyWay

Syl,

 

I know you have been through alot.....and I wish I could give advice on what you should do. But after what I am experiencing.....

 

I finaly realize that I cannot make any decisions for anyone.....only YOU know what is best for YOU.

 

Thumbs,

 

Thanks so much for posting given what you are going through. How are you?

 

Syl

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

Seems either way you need closure to move on from this. I agree with the above statement. He answers that for you it leads you to more questions and more doors open...More confusion and more pain for you.

 

 

I agree with this. Everytime he has told me something else it has hurt me more. But it has made me realise that I was being an idiot to believe that it was just a friendship, then a 'close' friendship then a very close friendship etc etc. At least now I feel like I know more of what I'm dealing with.

 

I agree that if he told me things, I might want to know more but that's not really the problem. The problem is that he doesn't answer questions, it goes something like this:

 

S: Why did you phone her 40 minutes when I was away with work, after you said it was all over?

H: Well, it was 90% about work...I had non-one to turn to.

S: What was the other 10% about.

H: Well, I can't remember but it might have been something about the situation between us.

S: What do you mean 'about us'?

H: Well, just what's going on here but at the time there was a lot happening at work, Billy asked me to blah blah and I blah blah so then someone else blah, blah etc etc.

S: What do you mean you were talking about what was going on here? Did you tell her we were not getting along?

H: Well, look I can't really remember.

 

I have tried and tried to explain that his side-stepping and fudging of issues just makes me suspicious, but it doesn't change anything. This just makes me think more that he has something more to hide. Aaaarrghhh!! I have given up.

 

Sylvia

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by uberfrau

You can ask leading questions, out of blue, like, "so how many times did she suck your cock?" Or "so what motel did you do the dirty at?"

 

I tried this. He has his 'alibis' that he trots out, like "We were at work all day". Ha, ha. Well so was Bill Clinton.

How would feel about the following conversation, if it were to happen?

 

Syl- Did you sleep with her??

 

Husband-yes, i admit it-we did it about 60 times. I lied to you about it cause I could n't stand to hurt you more than I already have!

 

Imagine him admitting this to you. How do you think you'd feel? Better, worse, or the same? Would you leave or stay?

 

If he said this, the truth is that I would feel worse but in a way I would be relieved because it would prove I wasn't nuts. I would also have more respect for him for being a person of integrity instead of the squirming liar I see before me.

 

I would definitely leave. I never thought that I would say this but now I know I couldn't live with him had he done that.

 

Syl

[uberfrau]

Syl, it's time to get mean.

 

Can you even 'stand' him anymore? Like, if he weren't your husband, but anyone else...how would you view him, knowing what you know and how he acts? How would you see him if he were someone' elses husband?

 

Do you respect him anymore? Not just the 'he's my husband so i have to respect him', but as a person?

 

Look at your husband 'objectively' if possible. You be a disinterested 3rd party with a inside look on the situation-how does hubby wash out?

 

See, your husband no longer deserves the 'protection' a married partner gives the other. If you were getting (or suspected) screwed over by a co-worker, you wouldn't lay down and take it. OR anyone else. Treat your husband like anyone else. If you have the money, hire a PI. At this point, emotions and wallowing in them are useless and counter-productive. It sounds like you are getting over them. Now is the time for cold logic, and dispassionate objectivity. Good Luck.

[StillHurtin]

I am so sorry you are living like this. I can understand how you are feeling. My H also lied about his emotional and physical A w/ a co-worker. When he finally realized he didn't want the D or her he told me the truth. He told me that if he wants the M to work he had to start being honest w/ me. It hurt like he!! to hear everything but I would rather have that hurt that being lied to. I wanted the truth, I didn't want to feel like a fool not knowing what happened. It didn't make it easier, but I would rather he be honest than lie.

 

I hope you two get it all worked out. Have you thought about counseling?

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Honestly, this one little bit that he says right there to me suggests that he feels his no boinking alibi is airtight. Which means he's lying. I'm more cynical than most people, but that's just my opinion. The fact that he's stating he never had the opportunity to boink her (lie) doesn't make it any better.

 

I totally agree with this. If he never did anything with her, why would he use statements that essentially attempt to actively disprove something that he claims never occurred? I mean, if someone accuses you of something you really didn't do, you naturally try to prove that you didn't, not why you couldn't.

[whichwayisup]

He's lying and he's trying to cover it up! I've used this analogy once before, I'll say it again...It's like trying to cover a stinky fart in an elevator...IT CAN'T BE DONE!!!!!

 

I'm not joking about this, but if you know a Cop or anybody who knows a Cop, see if you can arrange a lie detector test. No s***, even BLUFFING him could make him spill it.

 

I am so PEEVED off for you Syl. He knows what he is doing and probably has lied to himself so well he has convinced himself now. He is totally aware that YOU know he is full of s*** too.

 

Hire a PI, heck get that 'cheaters' show on his a$$. It's time he wakes up and smells the coffee!! You need the answers now - You can't live like this for much longer, it's gonna drive you insane.

 

Thinking of you Syl. Hang in there.

[Mr Spock]

I am so PEEVED off for you Syl. He knows what he is doing and probably has lied to himself so well he has convinced himself now. He is totally aware that YOU know he is full of s*** too.

 

If he's convinced himself of the truth then doesn't that render a lie detector kind of useless?

 

It's besides the point anyways.

 

He's admitted to physical contact and an attraction on multi levels. It doesn't make it any better.

 

What you're doing now is waiting for a reason to leave. Well, he's given you one. Already. So if you're waiting for something WORSE to happen, or to find out some truly awful information then you're setting yourself up for failure. 10 years down the road when you're still waiting to catch him in a lie are you going to ask yourself if it's all worth it?

 

I'm not saying leave. But can you live with this? Honestly? He still works with the woman. Can he find a new job?

 

It honestly sounds like he's still operating in the sorry he's caught mode instead of I'm sorry.

 

And, IMO, that isn't something I could live with personally. There are men who stray and are deeply sorry and work hard to fix things to keep the woman they love. Then there are men that stray, are sorry they got caught and try to smooth things over by withholding the severity of the betrayal. The go to counselling, make an appearance of effort but deep down you KNOW they don't think they've done anything wrong. These are the ones that will re offend.