Attracting commitment phobes

[Ninjainpajamas]

I am poor at the initial evaluation. I do not realize straight away that they are commitment phobes. I am very very poor at reading men and I am quite easy to read, myself. As I am rather spontaneous and impulsive, I think I attract these guys who are comfortable / like with this way of reacting.

 

what I am not doing well is not taking my time to not just listen to them, but see their behavior in order to link the dots. I don't do that because with these men, there is always - consistently - intense passion. I manage that poorly. I get involved and from that moment onwards, I've pretty much lost the game. I realize what the process is, but seem to be unable to stop it. Nowadays, when that starts, I can hit the breaks and jump off the train, but in no way can I stop to take that damn wrong train, to begin with…

 

Those are pretty strong characteristics of women who have issues with men. Whenever you go into something blindly, you usually pay the price. And when you choose feelings and sensations over rational mind, when your gut is telling you to be careful...you're making yourself quite easy to exploit.

 

Men sense that optimistic and whirlwind type of care-free behavior, they realize you're not not a thinker and just a feeler...and men are in general thinkers even at the base level, so they will recognize your attitude and see opportunity in that...however they won't say anything to you about that of course, why would any man do that if it meant keeping him from getting his needs met? most won't make the "noble" choice for the sake of your feelings, but instead ride the wave of passion into the beach and then hop on another wave after that.

 

So that is where you are failing yourself most. As men we meet a lot of women who just aren't thinking at all, and some men have self-conscience when it comes to exploiting every vulnerability within a woman or resisting the temptation of doing so, even if he knows ultimately what she thinks is being developed and may want out of it.

 

Women tend to be their own worst enemies as they convince themselves of things on their own...which is why men can be so vague, coy and have a completely alternate agenda and a woman wouldn't even think to ask based on her own perspective and agenda...she'll think something completely different is happening, she's sucked up into the love story feeling of it all and she enjoys that moment too much to care about the consequences.

 

All very very very good things for men...it lets them easily slip under the radar.

 

Intense emotion. Intense passion. I am empathic. I've had a father who suddenly withdrew emotionally growing up, so my theory is that subconsciously I seek me who are also unpredictable, seeking to make them stay and love me, thus changing the end of my childhood drama.

 

Some men are very good at tapping into your emotions and pulling from you empathy. Those men are usually the kind of "takers" who turn the dynamic into you feeling like you have to be there to save them or help them. Through that process you derive a sense of accomplishment and validation, which IMO at least is linked to your relationship or lack of with your father...you are constantly reliving and experiencing that emotion of intensity and with-drawl, that hot and cold process.

 

In a gross kind of not so gross way because it makes sense, you are trying to win your fathers love back...in an overly simplistic generalization of course, what you actually need to feel and earn is your own.

 

Yes, they are. I am a fixer. I have a lot of energy, will and determination and having a "project" - bf, relationship to fix - keeps my mind busy. I've realized that I focus on the others instead of focusing on myself and my own issues. I am working hard to change that. So now, given that I have hobbies and a job that I am very passionate about, it gets better. The trick is where I focus my attention. As long as I am very involved outside my relationships, I get a lot better at handling them. The moment I get sucked into a toxic relationship, it poisons each and every other aspect of my life and getting back on track asks me for a LOT of extra effort. Like a LOT. I manage to not get sucked into those relationships, but boy… am I getting dangerously close…

 

Constantly needing a project on others, because you are constantly distracting yourself with projects so that you never have to feel or think about you within your own self is a common coping mechanism for women IME.

 

It is very hard to break habits, because when you are indulging in your OCD love like behavior, it's at the time being fulfilling and engaging...although at the end of the day it doesn't lead to anything.

 

It's going to be hard for you to avoid that sizzle, it's an extreme and intense sensation that easy to get lost in and forget about everything else. The more you face and recognize your own issues and where these emotions truly originate from..and it's not just about men and emotion, you realize how much of you being in your own head and lost in that world that isn't real that will get you both wiser and depressed...it's like shattering the myth of Santa Claus...you have to face the truths and once you know the truths it gets harder to get lost in that fictional world as you start to see it where as it is...and like a drug the more you use it the less potent it becomes, needing some more extreme or crazy to keep that high and then you just end up with a lot of personal issues from all the experience and traumas you were numbing yourself at the time.

 

It all catches up you at some point IMO. because you can't hide from your problems forever.

 

 

No, most likely it's not these men, they all trigger that response in me... high attraction, high emotion and then withdrawal. and then high attraction and high emotion and again the withdrawal. text book material, if you think of my dad. i get sucked into the unpredictability. Now, I am fighting hard against that, which in a way only encourages the push pull dynamic. It somehow always seems to end up in a challenge, there's always something I really want and they wouldn't give that to me or it's something that they really want and I would not give that to them. I know, but that time, that the relationship is doomed, because some fundamental needs (mine or theirs) are not being met - which is at the very core of the issue.

 

As long as you recognize the triggers...that's what is important here, those are the things you need to tell yourself when they are occurring that you need to pull yourself out of the situation...which is difficult and challenging of course in the moment.

 

You're not really having a "relationship" as much as you reliving a very superficial process and cycle that fulfills certain unhealthy "needs" within you...but when it's over and the consequences come after that, that's when it starts to suck and then you've got to run off and distract yourself again quickly to avoid it.

 

 

 

hell no, I want to be happy. Last bloke I met was making me so miserable that I swore to myself to never ever find myself in that place ever again. and if that means self analysis, hard work, uncomfortable sessions, hell I'll do it, that experience scared the **** out of me. the thing is... I know myself well enough to know that I will never stay with a commitment phobe guy, but I really really want to avoid trading a commitment phobe guy for the next. I want to stop being attracted to them and stop attracting them.

 

Part of you is drawn to that and likes that, remember that no one can do anything to you or put you through anything that you don't allow yourself.

 

But recognizing you are a commitment-phobe woman, might help you realize your own behaviors. How can you stop being attracted to people who you are attracted to when you are emotionally unavailable yourself and pursuing these kinds of relationships? what does that say about you? are you really ready for a relationship even if you had the right one come along? or would you run from that?

 

What makes you a risky person to date? do you give the same things you are asking? or is it only to the men that refuse to accept it? knowing that you won't actually have to face it.

 

 

I am facing my fears, which is something that I didn't do before. I ask questions, I set barriers, I am making progress in adapting my behavior. I need to make much better progress at handling my emotions and most importantly at mastering my train of thoughts. I think I need to work on my abandonment issues … it’s just that it’s so deep… like, I feel a bit lost, really…

 

I think you understand fundamentally what's causing you a lot of troubles, so you've done some reflection already. You'll just need to continue asking yourself more challenging and personal questions, and trying to understand yourself as a person from a new set of eyes so to speak, seeing yourself as someone else may see you from the outside.

 

Being honest with yourself is really hard, because your gut reaction is deny it...you want to always see yourself in a particular light...but the more questions you ask, the more you may doubt what you knew. It's scary at first but enlightening, because you can't accept yourself for who you really are, give yourself what you really need, and find something truly fulfilling if you're always lying to yourself.

 

You might find that passion for you, is triggered by vulnerability. That love for you is triggered by fixing or chasing something. And you have to ask yourself if that's what it really is about. (this is just an example I'm giving you on how you would consider and assess your feelings)

[candie13]

hey, NinjA, first of all, thank you very much for taking the time to respond in depth to my post. You are bang on quite a few things, and the questions you ask are... most uncomfortable . Answering them asks me for a lot of effort, I feel like having a beer to congratulate myself after answering them

 

Those are pretty strong characteristics of women who have issues with men. Whenever you go into something blindly, you usually pay the price. And when you choose feelings and sensations over rational mind, when your gut is telling you to be careful...you're making yourself quite easy to exploit.

 

I know I give off that vibe and I feel I am easy to exploit as well, but I have no idea how to fight that, how to shield myself.

 

Men sense that optimistic and whirlwind type of care-free behavior, they realize you're not not a thinker and just a feeler...and men are in general thinkers even at the base level, so they will recognize your attitude and see opportunity in that...however they won't say anything to you about that of course, why would any man do that if it meant keeping him from getting his needs met? most won't make the "noble" choice for the sake of your feelings, but instead ride the wave of passion into the beach and then hop on another wave after that.

 

I am not exactly a breeze, but I do have a very easygoing approach when it comes to meeting people. I say I have an welcoming attitude as opposed to skeptic and closed. I am an optimistic person, but... I am not shallow or superficial. I am however a romantic.

 

So that is where you are failing yourself most. As men we meet a lot of women who just aren't thinking at all, and some men have self-conscience when it comes to exploiting every vulnerability within a woman or resisting the temptation of doing so, even if he knows ultimately what she thinks is being developed and may want out of it.

 

that is absolutely true. Not thinking, not reasoning, acting on impulse.

 

Women tend to be their own worst enemies as they convince themselves of things on their own...which is why men can be so vague, coy and have a completely alternate agenda and a woman wouldn't even think to ask based on her own perspective and agenda...she'll think something completely different is happening, she's sucked up into the love story feeling of it all and she enjoys that moment too much to care about the consequences.

 

All very very very good things for men...it lets them easily slip under the radar.

 

I got that thing sorted. The moment a guy is vague, I've got his game and I want out - because playing hide and seek gets me utterly bored and uninterested (which strangely enough makes me perfect for them). I don't want to play, it's useless. The moment I understood in which category the guy plays, I am out. I admit I've learnt more the last two years than I did my whole life. Now, if I only managed to get the first part right, that would be perfect. I just need to stop catching the bait that gets me unreasonably hopeful.

 

Some men are very good at tapping into your emotions and pulling from you empathy. Those men are usually the kind of "takers" who turn the dynamic into you feeling like you have to be there to save them or help them. Through that process you derive a sense of accomplishment and validation, which IMO at least is linked to your relationship or lack of with your father...you are constantly reliving and experiencing that emotion of intensity and with-drawl, that hot and cold process.

 

Well, in all honesty, I don't stick around - or they don't stick around long enough for me to "fix" them. I've started to recognize my pattern, so I won't play along. But it is not my own vulnerability, it is their vulnerability and sensibility that attracts me. The pain that made them so twisted - it's like I can touch it through their skin.

 

In a gross kind of not so gross way because it makes sense, you are trying to win your fathers love back...in an overly simplistic generalization of course, what you actually need to feel and earn is your own.

 

or maybe by healing them, I am trying to heal myself and my own...stuff.

 

Constantly needing a project on others, because you are constantly distracting yourself with projects so that you never have to feel or think about you within your own self is a common coping mechanism for women IME.

 

It is very hard to break habits, because when you are indulging in your OCD love like behavior, it's at the time being fulfilling and engaging...although at the end of the day it doesn't lead to anything.

 

that was my MO for years. it backfired big time and I've stopped denying the obvious and started to work on myself. Seriously. Still struggling seriously, but I am much much happier by myself and feeling much more accomplished and serene than I ever was.

 

It's going to be hard for you to avoid that sizzle, it's an extreme and intense sensation that easy to get lost in and forget about everything else.

 

Arts and photography gives me that. I dread it, this scares me to death, because it makes me look deeply inside, and in those rare occasions when I pick up my courage and do it, it just feels... I don't know, I get into a zone.

 

The more you face and recognize your own issues and where these emotions truly originate from..and it's not just about men and emotion, you realize how much of you being in your own head and lost in that world that isn't real that will get you both wiser and depressed...it's like shattering the myth of Santa Claus...you have to face the truths and once you know the truths it gets harder to get lost in that fictional world as you start to see it where as it is...and like a drug the more you use it the less potent it becomes, needing some more extreme or crazy to keep that high and then you just end up with a lot of personal issues from all the experience and traumas you were numbing yourself at the time.

 

It all catches up you at some point IMO. because you can't hide from your problems forever.

 

This is the point: what problems am I trying to hide from? Other than running away from myself - which is true, i do that - I don't understand. I see abandonment fear, I see need of validation, but I am extremely proud woman and I have walked away from men several times, when I understood that they were not involved, even though they didn't necessarily want to break up. I do have a huge ego and I make sure I always leave first. This is what's so ****ed up: I see/ understand that those men are not ready or involved - so I always leave, because I have a very strong, almost physical need to be loved. And the ****ed up part is that those men don't want to leave. My ex of 7 years, my last CP ex, the very last guy I dated - I had to block them or unfriend them or take some extreme measures, to move on. I swear it's true.

 

As long as you recognize the triggers...that's what is important here, those are the things you need to tell yourself when they are occurring that you need to pull yourself out of the situation...which is difficult and challenging of course in the moment.

 

When the situation happens, it's like trying to stop an avalanche. I've managed to understand how it happens - these men gain my trust. They are either friends or people I knew and trusted before. My ex of 7 years introduced me to his family after the 4th date... I feel... familiar - strange combo, thinking of my dad. It's like home all over again. Familiar but totally unsettled emotionally... thus even more familiar. It's like every time, with every single man, with each relationship, I am crossing a different maze. I lose my reference points, sense of direction, I hope for a happy ending but it gets more and more terrifying and scary.. only to find myself in the very same spot, time and time again. After each and every relationship, different maze, blocked at the very same level.

 

You're not really having a "relationship" as much as you reliving a very superficial process and cycle that fulfills certain unhealthy "needs" within you...but when it's over and the consequences come after that, that's when it starts to suck and then you've got to run off and distract yourself again quickly to avoid it.

 

not sure I understand your last phrase...

 

wanna know something strange? in all the guys I ever dated, all men who made me cry or suffer... there was never one I really wanted to marry. Or one that I really really really loved and thought "wow, that guy, he really is special". I've never allowed myself to get vulnerable, to that point.

 

Part of you is drawn to that and likes that, remember that no one can do anything to you or put you through anything that you don't allow yourself.

 

then I've let myself get through some really tough **** for no reason!

 

But recognizing you are a commitment-phobe woman, might help you realize your own behaviors. How can you stop being attracted to people who you are attracted to when you are emotionally unavailable yourself and pursuing these kinds of relationships? what does that say about you? are you really ready for a relationship even if you had the right one come along? or would you run from that?

 

I don't want to blow my own horn, Ninja, but I am smart. I am damn brainy. I don't know, I mean I don't have my emotions figured out and I am clumsy at playing games, but I do figure people out. Nowadays it happens faster and faster. It'll take a pretty special guy to make me fall inlove. Like really. Special guys are rare. Very rare. I don't want / can't be with a guy only because he loves me and... it's the proper thing to do. I want a partner, a sound shoulder to count on... that's rare.I have a strong personality, add the wits and a feisty temper... yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath, I don't think the "right" one awaits around the corner. He must be lost trakking in Nepal or something... and he's late, motherfu... ))

 

What makes you a risky person to date? do you give the same things you are asking? or is it only to the men that refuse to accept it? knowing that you won't actually have to face it.

 

I am risky to date. I know. I challenge. I confront. I have my own opinion. And I call people on their behavior. It's hard for me to give the same things that I ask for, because most men I date are not really at the same level. Either intellectually or empathically... it's not just with men, it's with most people, but I of course feel it most in my personal relationships. I know I am not perfect or all that valueble, but unless I am convinced about the value of the person in front of me, there are high chances I might walk all over them. It's as easy as that.

 

I think you understand fundamentally what's causing you a lot of troubles, so you've done some reflection already. You'll just need to continue asking yourself more challenging and personal questions, and trying to understand yourself as a person from a new set of eyes so to speak, seeing yourself as someone else may see you from the outside.

 

yeah, I lack perspective. That is certain. For sure. I just have no idea how to do this by myself.

 

Being honest with yourself is really hard, because your gut reaction is deny it...you want to always see yourself in a particular light...but the more questions you ask, the more you may doubt what you knew. It's scary at first but enlightening, because you can't accept yourself for who you really are, give yourself what you really need, and find something truly fulfilling if you're always lying to yourself.

 

I work a lot on myself to stop "lying" to myself. Read some great books. But I seem to make the same completely stupid, childish mistakes, however much I try to prevent myself. I sometimes feel like I've had a premonition that I would die drowned and decided to live in the dessert for the rest of my life. And even there I manage to find two drops of water and drawn into them. not sure if that makes sense.

 

You might find that passion for you, is triggered by vulnerability. That love for you is triggered by fixing or chasing something. And you have to ask yourself if that's what it really is about. (this is just an example I'm giving you on how you would consider and assess your feelings)

 

I'm working a bit on that part. I still did not figure out what I am chasing or what I am running away from. Or what exactly my scenario is...